Possible success with validation and "being there" for her

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, she woke up nasty.  Making speeches, pretty typical stuff. 

Things got specific when she complained of pee spot (from little dog) was in girls room and was wanting help with carpet shampooer. 

Well, I found old ones but couldn't find a fresh, wet one.  I asked her to come show me (since she was the one that stepped in it, literally). 

She came in all grumpy, like I was putting her out and she couldn't find a wet spot. 

She seemed to get angrier and I asked if we could go talk and clear up whatever was going on, big speech about being hungry and busy, so I guess answer is no.

Well couple hours later I asked if we could hang out for a bit after she was done with playing a game with kids.  She agreed but seemed really reluctant.

It took about 10 minutes of snuggling in bed to get her to relax.  She had peppered me with some questions that provided a jade opportunity, I did it a couple times before I realized it.  Then I focused on emotions and seeing things through her eyes, and that I was there for her.

Well, at about the 15 minute mark she sighs really big and says that she woke up grumpy, was mad that she had to clean and do all kinds of stuff after a week at work.  (I let the bait stay on the floor)  She said she was not yelling at me but was trying to control the situation with her voice and was definitely not talking to me in a loving way.

She said she was sorry and asked forgiveness (yes I was having heart attack inside),

I stuck around another 5-10 minutes and figured best to leave things on a good note.  We went on about our day.

I wouldn't say her mood is fixed, but it was at least tolerable after that.

No idea if I can replicate this again, or if this was even a good idea to try, although it kinda seems to have worked for today.

FF

[formflier]

So, she woke up nasty.  Making speeches, pretty typical stuff. 

Things got specific when she complained of pee spot (from little dog) was in girls room and was wanting help with carpet shampooer. 

Well, I found old ones but couldn't find a fresh, wet one.  I asked her to come show me (since she was the one that stepped in it, literally). 

She came in all grumpy, like I was putting her out and she couldn't find a wet spot. 

She seemed to get angrier and I asked if we could go talk and clear up whatever was going on, big speech about being hungry and busy, so I guess answer is no.

Well couple hours later I asked if we could hang out for a bit after she was done with playing a game with kids.  She agreed but seemed really reluctant.

It took about 10 minutes of snuggling in bed to get her to relax.  She had peppered me with some questions that provided a jade opportunity, I did it a couple times before I realized it.  Then I focused on emotions and seeing things through her eyes, and that I was there for her.

Well, at about the 15 minute mark she sighs really big and says that she woke up grumpy, was mad that she had to clean and do all kinds of stuff after a week at work.  (I let the bait stay on the floor)  She said she was not yelling at me but was trying to control the situation with her voice and was definitely not talking to me in a loving way.

She said she was sorry and asked forgiveness (yes I was having heart attack inside),

I stuck around another 5-10 minutes and figured best to leave things on a good note.  We went on about our day.

I wouldn't say her mood is fixed, but it was at least tolerable after that.

No idea if I can replicate this again, or if this was even a good idea to try, although it kinda seems to have worked for today.

FF

[formflier]

So this morning, she discovered that car seats were not in the car when she wanted to leave.  Yep, BPD checklist item number 1.  Turn on flamethrower.  Number 2: Incinerate hubby

She didn't call me names, but the tone and volume was horrible. 

I think I messed up because I asked her/told her "If you will speak to me kindly I will help you"

Would it have been better to just say "I won't be spoken to like this" and walk away? 

Also.  I found her phone half charged on a table and plugged it in so it would be fully charged when she left.  She started questioning why I did that ( i do it often and she often thanks me for it).  Then she wanted to know if it had anything to do with her typing in the code when "we" were walking into church.  I think she sucked me into jading or invalidating because I asked how it could matter, since we arrived separately at church"

Yeah, I think I invalidated her there.

Anyone got a better response.  She was obviously thinking I was snooping in her phone.  She has it locked and I don't know the code.

Nor do I want to.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey FF,

Sounds like things in your fijrst post went well... .

Namely... .

Leaving the bait

Staying emotionally unswayed

You mention 'replicating' so I want to say something... .

While I think you did great, and yes the result was great, well, sometimes you will replicate your behavior and be perfect, but still get a poor response.  Not because you did something wrong, but because of her and the nature of her illness.

I do not think you should gauge the quality of your effort by the result of her behavior.

You did your best, it worked.

Another day, you will do your best, she will still disregulate.

I think the point in the tools is not for a non dysregulated result... .

But rather, to give her the best possible chance to have a good result.  Some days, the best chance she has is still going to be a Mrs. grumpy pants even with the zen Master of BOD tools applying them.

Am I making sense?

(My words are hard to put together, hence I avoided posting, but see no one did yet)

[Sunfl0wer]

I think I messed up because I asked her/told her "If you will speak to me kindly I will help you"

This, if said to me, I would find offensive.

I would feel the person is treating me as though they are my parent.

With my ex, in these situations, I did best to 'play dumb and frazzled' (maybe someone has a better approach)

"I am feeling flooded atm, I need to focus on xyz, and cannot handle the car seat issue"

My ex knew I can feel overstimulated.  So me referencing I feel flooded was me pointing out my inability to stay present with the level of stimulation.

It was a way for me to blame me for needing to disengage.

Maybe you can come up with a way for you to disengage that is about you?

[Sunfl0wer]

Also.  I found her phone half charged on a table and plugged it in so it would be fully charged when she left.  She started questioning why I did that ( i do it often and she often thanks me for it).  Then she wanted to know if it had anything to do with her typing in the code when "we" were walking into church.  I think she sucked me into jading or invalidating because I asked how it could matter, since we arrived separately at church"

Yeah... .I think I invalidated her there.

How about, "I simply thought to be kind." END!

[formflier]

So, she texted me that

I am praying that I speak lovingly to you even when I don't get what I want, aka boosters put back in the car so I am ready to leave for work in the morning, Also praying there is no 'mindreading' in our relationship

Hmmmm

My response was "thank you!"

FF

[Grey Kitty]

You didn't do it perfectly. You identified things you could have done that would have been better. Ways to get out of it that would have been a little quicker / a little less invalidating.

(I'm remembering your good, better, best comments from a while ago.)

But really... .do you think after her initial blowup about minivan seats, there was any possible outcome better than you and her getting some space to separate you until she cooled down?

[Grey Kitty]

(cross posted)

... .and her text was as close to an apology as you need... .

... .plus a bit of confirmation that just letting her have space and sort herself out was the right thing to do!

[Sunfl0wer]

So... .she texted me that

I am praying that I speak lovingly to you even when I don't get what I want... .aka boosters put back in the car so I am ready to leave for work in the morning... .Also praying there is no 'mindreading' in our relationship

Hmmmm

My response was "thank you!"

FF

Humm, when you prayed recently, I think it was a bedtime prayer, you prayed for some scripture re speaking the right words or such... . Umm, when I read this, it felt like you were validating her other prayers 'at you' by praying 'at her' and upping the ante.

Sorry I am not articulate, maybe you know what I am referring to?

I think you accidentally escalated this issue.


Edit:

Found it!

a.      FF lead in prayer first—praying that God would help each manifest Eph 4:29-32

Sounds like you upped the prayer ante, and are getting it back at you.

Oh and... .

My response was "thank you!"

 

[Verbena]

First, let me say that your wife's apologizing and asking for your forgiveness regarding the dog pee incident is really huge.  I have been married for almost 34 years, a lot longer than you have,  and cannot recall a single apology from my husband in all that time.  He just won't apologize for anything because he can never be wrong.  

Secondly, you have the patience of a saint and I wish your wife realized this.

On the car seat incident, I do think it would have been better to say that you won't be spoken to that way and walk away.  

As far as your wife apologizing (sort of) for this last dysregulation, it really bothers me how she uses God when it's convenient and I'm not so sure I buy it.  

It seems to me that telling you she is praying for whatever after she dysregulates is her way of being more "holy" than you are when she has no intention of behaving any differently.  She does what she wants when she wants and then uses God to make herself feel better about what she's done.  What seems to be missing from the equation is true personal repentance (not to you, but to God) and allowing Him to change her.  Because He could.  

Your wife sees herself as a victim to the awful man she married and plays the God card with the purpose of using it to her advantage down the road.   Just my take on it.  

[formflier]

Found it!

a.      FF lead in prayer first—praying that God would help each manifest Eph 4:29-32

This is how I am supposed to start our "business meetings" that are to happen before we get into bed.

Basically to set the tone.

Meetings have gone surprisingly well.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Did you choose the verse though?

Or was it chosen for you?

[formflier]

Did you choose the verse though?

Or was it chosen for you?

Chosen for me.

So, the man is supposed to be the leader in a Christian household.  I have done that role from time to time up until my wife starts throwing rocks at me (metaphorically).  I also have walked away from public spiritual leadership when my wife has publicly talked about me being a fraud, assigning me beliefs and values that I don't have, etc etc

So, this will be interesting.  The purpose of the meetings is to "lead the family to clear communications".  And get rid of the "we never talked about that, or I never agreed to that". 

So, I read the verse, pray and then we get to talking.  Note:  I love the meetings, wife is tolerating them.

Listen, in my professional life I've held lots of meetings, many "hostile".  So I have a place to go to in my mind, to conduct a business meeting without grinning about how much my wife must be hating this,

In reality, several things went smoothly as a result of the meetings, or that is my take on it.  There are lots of moving parts in this family.

FF

[formflier]

Your wife sees herself as a victim to the awful man she married and plays the God card with the purpose of using it to her advantage down the road.   Just my take on it.  

Yep, the victim part and "the things she must put up with" are a huge part of this.

When we had a joint session with the Psychologist she was very dramatic in how she described and acted out "saving herself from being murdered" when she pinned the sex toy against the tub with her hip.  She actually jumped up and acted it out.

I got an eye from the P that I believe I interpreted correctly as "hush".  So, I didn't try to explain how what she was alleging was physically impossible. 

So, Verbena (and others), how do I "deal with" my wife's need for me to be bad?

I do believe it exists, I know that.  My take is it is one of her more minor traits, but I could be wrong.

Victim card is huge.

In fact, here is an odd thought.  I could be seen as competing with her for the victim title with my disabilities.  Which is why she wants to believe I have faked it.  How I fake x rays, and the exams, ?  Yeah, whatever.



FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Ok, that changes things.

Let me explain what I was thinking, in case it is not a big mind mess of mine.

FfW:  Was participating in praying for FF.  Actually using prayer as a mind game and way to attack FF triangulating God on her side for rescue.

Shortly following, next prayer session

FF leads: With a scripture that admonishes against corrupt communication out of the mouth.

I assumed it was your pick.  Therefore appeared "passive aggressive" at her.

My apologies once again for assuming!

I still though wonder if as she heard these words from your mouth, she felt you were meaning them solely for her, and felt as though you were condemning her with God.  Sending her secret mind messages with your intonation and fluctuation and emphasis of prayer... .of condemnation.  Feelings = facts.

I say these things, not because I'm crazy, well, maybe, but anyway... .

She is actually triangulating God and likely is projecting the same devices she is using with God, unto you!  Projecting is a common thing.

In any event when she says this:

I am praying that I speak lovingly to you even when I don't get what I want

She sounds like she is resentful that you got to admonish the Ephesians scripture and is throwing it back at you.  How dare you properly address in prayer! You wouldn't! You must have ulterior motive! 

She will project the motive unto you:  FF is trying to abuse and bully and control through use of prayer!

Ok, well, I realize that without you actually picking the scripture, this doesn't even seem to make sense.  But then again, isn't that the definition of a delusion to an extent anyway?

... .

Anyway,

Now out of the rabbit hole.

Idk if that was any practical use yet.

[Verbena]

She is actually triangulating God and likely is projecting the same devices she is using with God, unto you! 

I completely agree with this and think it's disgusting.  She uses God as a weapon just as she uses your children as a weapon against you. 

[Daniell85]

Disgusting is kind of a value judgement and pretty meaningless when it comes to the mechanics of triangulation.

Simply, it's triangulation and whoever is being triangulated against anyone is simply a tool. The underlying dynamic is always the same. The healthy response is always the same: remove yourself from the drama triangle and refuse to participate.