Not dealing with this push/pull very well

[anglian365]

Hi, I would be very grateful for some insight into what's going on now. 

Last Saturday my ex pwBPD said she couldn't carry on and our r/s was over. Later that evening a friend emailed me and I told them it was over but I would try and remain friends.  On Monday my pwBPD said she couldn't then later  would try to be friends.  We have had low contact since then, I sent a couple of texts. She said she'd email on Wednesday, but didn't. I assumed she'd changed her mind.

Tonight she phoned and said the friend had been round to see her and said I'd said the relationship was over, and that was news to her, and was it true?  I reminded her we'd broken up on Saturday night but were trying to be friends.  She became quite aggressive, questioning whether I loved her. I said 'No, not in the way you love me'.  After a few more interrogatory questions, during which I felt like a worm on a hook, she put the phone down on me as I was answering. This has been the pattern of our phone calls - she starts off very amiably, then it winds up and sooner or later she puts the phone down on me. She doesn't want to hear what I say.  I don't ring back any more.

Later this evening she sends a text 'I know I don't match up, but I will always love you. If you need anything... .'

I have no idea what to answer. The 'matching up' thing relates to her jealousy over my previous partners - she was convinced I was going back to one or the other.

I am beginning to think I don't know how to be a friend to her, or even whether its possible.  It's getting to the stage where I don't want to be in contact - the couple of days of silence were good. 

She seems content to get on with her own life, until something happens, then fear sets in that we aren't ultimately going to be together.  Is it wise to be absolutely honest and say that I don't think that will ever happen? I'm feeling guilty and trapped.

Thanks for taking the time to read this! Any insights into whether my behaviour is contributing in a negative way would be gratefully received. 

[once removed]

hi anglian365  

this is not an example of how your behavior contributed in a negative way, only how i suspect it was perceived:

Tonight she phoned and said the friend had been round to see her and said I'd said the relationship was over, and that was news to her, and was it true?  I reminded her we'd broken up on Saturday night but were trying to be friends.  She became quite aggressive, questioning whether I loved her. I said 'No, not in the way you love me'.  After a few more interrogatory questions, during which I felt like a worm on a hook, she put the phone down on me as I was answering.

nevermind the context or even if she initiated the split, what the friend repeated likely triggered her sense of abandonment, and context kind of flew out the window, feelings became fact. that is not your fault and might have been inevitable.

my ex initiated the breakup with me. when we hung up i was confused, because it seemed like when id press her on whether we were "officially" broken up, if this is what she wanted, i wouldnt get a clear answer. so i waited a few days and heard nothing. then i merely removed my relationship status on facebook (she had removed hers before the breakup... .) and changed my profile picture. things went from amicable to highly vindictive from that point on.

this persons confusing behavior toward you is about the trigger, the feeling, the fear of abandonment.

I am beginning to think I don't know how to be a friend to her, or even whether its possible.  It's getting to the stage where I don't want to be in contact - the couple of days of silence were good.  

you might try giving this (friendship) some time, and both of you, some space. things are likely raw for both of you, emotions running high, which wont be conducive to friendship. some space will help you clear your head, and make a more thorough decision as to what you want and dont want. that may (or may not) change rapidly, the silence (it doesnt necessarily have to be silence, it can be limited contact) may go from peaceful to anxiety inducing.

in other words, you do have options. what do you think would be best for you?

[JQ]

Hi anglian,

I'm truly sorry that you're experiencing the BPD behavior of push/pull. It can be at the very least extremely frustrating and confusing. Once Removed gives some good insight into this behavior but I would also encourage you to read the references here at the top and to the right on BPD behavior if you haven't already.

As Once points out, something has triggered your pwBPD EXTREME fears of abandonment & engulfment. Remember that a pwBPD will always be the 3 yr old toddler with the behavior of one. They become confused about relationship behavior and lash out aka "rage" or they put their fingers in their ear and yell "na na na na I can't hear you" much like your pwBPD does with putting the phone down. PWBPD, do NOT want to hear about their bad behavior. They also have extreme feelings of guilt, shame that can & does come through during extreme behavioral conditions like a break up.

My exBPDgf texted me, told me numerous times things similar to what your's has told you, ie. "I'm broken, you're better off without me, I will always love you, you can find better then me" and the list goes on. PwBPD can be extremely jealous due to their extreme fears of abandonment issues no matter if they're real or not, SO the behavior of extreme jealousy comes in to play that you've experienced. I saw someone give some advice here in the forums that is to the point. If you decide to remain in your BPD relationship, you're going to have to resign yourself that you will AWAYS be the adult in the r/s. Your s/o w/BPD will forever be the 3 yr old toddler, and YOU will forever be the parent setting and reinforcing boundaries again & again. They will test your boundaries much like the 3 yr old toddler will, they will push your buttons, and you'll have to remain calm and be the adult.

You said, she said the following "I know I don't match up, but I will always love you. If you need anything". This is more BPD behavior, they never really say good bye, this would trigger their extreme fear of abandonment.  By "learning the door remains open", they believe they can reach out to you at any time and most likely will when you least expect it.  My 1st exBPDgf reached out to me after nearly 2 decades to try and restart things. I was over her long ago and continue to ignore her advances. My recent 2nd exBPDgf and I went back and forth for months much like what you read in the forums. I finally reach a point where I had to take care of myself, I had to for MY own mental and physical well being. I couldn't make a certain appointment to meet her, "I triggered her fears of abandonment" and she said good bye and it was the tone she used that made it sound different. 3 months later she called me twice, one in the morning, once in the evening, both times one ring. Two months later a simple text to which I responded to with the same.

I believe if I made an effort to reengage that things would start up again, maybe. Those with BPD will never really be out of your life as they will reach out from time to time in most cases, not all. I miss her, I still love her and that's ok as it is for you. But you have to decide what is best for you as Once Removed has pointed out.  I couldn't continue down the path I was on for my own well being for so many reasons. And you have to decide if this is the path YOU want to continue down.  None of us here in the group would tell you what is best for YOU, only you can decide that.

You said, "It's getting to the stage where I don't want to be in contact - the couple of days of silence were good."  This sounds as if you're looking down a path to walk but have yet made the choice to walk it.  You said, "She seems content to get on with her own life, until something happens, then fear sets in that we aren't ultimately going to be together.  Is it wise to be absolutely honest and say that I don't think that will ever happen? I'm feeling guilty and trapped."  You can see where our experiences are similar, like many here in the group. When fears sets in, they will reach out to remind you of them.  It is wise to be HONEST with YOURSELF!  YOU have to be!  I know you feel guilty as I did, wondering if there was something else I could of said, something else I could of done. But I was honest with myself and realized that she has a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness and there is nothing more I could of done or said that would have ever had made a difference.  If we are ALL honest with ourselves, and we look at things from the outside looking in, what would you see?

I wish you the strength for the choices you need to make and the peace you so richly deserve.

J

[anglian365]

Thank you Once Removed and JQ for your very insightful replies to my post, they have given me a lot of food for thought.  I could quote nearly everything you two have said - everything makes perfect sense and validates what I have been thinking.  I am looking at the material on the sidebars 'Choosing a Path' etc, a great source of information and realisation that my way of dealing with issues has contributed to the difficulties we are experiencing.

Just exactly what is the key which triggers the fear of abandonment is very difficult to figure out. Often I only realise it in retrospect.  God, it's so tiring always having to filter everything through that mesh.

Remember that a pwBPD will always be the 3 yr old toddler with the behavior of one. They become confused about relationship behavior and lash out aka "rage"

PWBPD, do NOT want to hear about their bad behavior. They also have extreme feelings of guilt, shame that can & does come through during extreme behavioral conditions like a break up.

This is a very useful way of looking at her behaviour. The confusion about relationship behaviour translates into extreme interrogation sessions on my intentions, but her fear can only hear the ones which don't mollify her.

It is wise to be HONEST with YOURSELF~!  YOU have to be~! 

Indeed.  There is grief and depression at the loss of a loving but unhealthy relationship, but the longer there is silence, the more I can hear myself (my gut!) clearly saying 'I need space and peace for myself in order to be healthy and move forward with my life'.

By "learning the door remains open", they believe they can reach out to you at any time and most likely will when you least expect it.

 

Yes! Ironically while writing this a text came in from her. Sometimes she is uncannily psychic!

I know there are no easy answers to my questions, just a lot of learning to do, and it is like walking through a minefield (never mind eggshells!). Knowing there are buddies like you out there, makes it a whole lot easier.

Bless you both and thanks again.

[JQ]

Anglian,

Reading your post you said,  "Just exactly what is the key which triggers the fear of abandonment is very difficult to figure out. Often I only realise it in retrospect.  God, it's so tiring always having to filter everything through that mesh."   I did the exact same thing! When I was new to the world of BPD after she told me she had it I dove into everything trying to learn all that I could in order to help me better understand her. If I could understand things better, maybe, just maybe things would get better.

So I learned the communication tools here on this site among other places, I read books. I was invited to a couple of her therapy sessions, even my own therapy sessions. YOUR words struck me in the head like a ball bat.  I was trying to learn what not to say or do that would trigger her rages, her interrogations, her 3 yr old toddler behavior. It was so freaking mentally draining! Nothing in my life ever exhausted me mentally, physical like this relationship with someone who was BPD.  And just when I thought I was making progress ... .well just throw out the damn book & dump the websites because she would change her tactics.

And you know what the most frustrating thing was?  She told me more then once, that she knew I was trying to help, she knew I was trying to learn about everything BPD more than anyone had in her life including her ex-husband. But she was so, "broken" that she continued her out of control behavior. I saw moments of clarity in things she said, in moments in her eyes, but moments later Mrs. Hyde would suddenly appear and everything was for not.  I found myself out of control, drinking more to calm my nerves. Staying up for days with less then 2 hours of sleep until I would actually crash with exhaustion only to start it all over again.

There was minefield after minefield that I walked through until I woke one morning and knew that it was time to get off the crazy train. Only then did realize I had to stop what i was doing because it would never work. It was at that moment I knew I had to take care of myself! She had a mental illness that was never going to get better.  Like you I had a very high hill to climb to get out of, but I did it. AND SO WILL YOU!     

You got this! We got your back! 

J

[anglian365]

Hi J!

Thanks for sharing elements of your story, which fit with mine, and I hope you got out without lasting emotional damage, and I hope you have found a new happiness.    Just being out of a toxic environment is wonderful.    The sad thing is that it makes us mistrustful of future relationships.

My pwBPD was living with me for a few months, but things got so desperate for me I had to ask her to find a place of her own - no ultimatum about when, but her extreme impulsiveness made her pack her bag and walk out that night with nowhere to go. (She did find an acquaintance in street and slept on a sofa, came back the next day and started looking properly).  She did these crazy dangerous things, like having to be delivered home completely legless (drunk) by strangers she'd met in the pub - thank goodness for the kindness of strangers.  She's now in a flat of her own, and I think she's keeping off the drink.  If she isn't, I don't know about it.

I can maintain some distance, which I am managing to do.  Sort of somewhere between low contact and no contact.  I would call it minimum contact. Yep, I am feeling my way forward, down a corridor of smoke and mirrors, towards a little flickering light saying 'Exit'. 

The good thing is that the necessary steep learning curve is helping me see how I need to set my boundaries, and sharpen up my communication, be more clear and straightforward. Just be more aware, use the great tools on bpdfamily, maybe be not so hastily accommodating... . 

Blessings to you and yours, J.  Thank you.

[JQ]

Hi A! 

I don't know if anyone gets out of a relationship with a BPD without some sort of scars. I have mine like others do, but they all heal with time as yours will.  A very positive attitude like you have goes along way in that process and makes things happen quicker.  All life learning lessons without question. I am in a better place as you are slowly finding yourself too.

NC or LC is what you can do for now and only you can decide when to go full NC. I found that not going NC only opens things up for a recycle and nothing good comes from that.  Things are getting better for you I can tell. It's hard, it's frustrating at times but it will get better.

On your journey towards the path towards the little flickering light saying "Exit" if that bulbs burns out ... .look again ... .I ... .we have another one for you 

Be well

J

[Lu2012]

Hey. So I've posted here before. Was with a girl with bad for 2.5 yrs and ended up having a breakdown for 8mnths, it was a difficult time as I'm a,sensitive,soul and I was uneducated so very confused.

However after my breakdown was calming a while I started talking to a,girl a lot online and on phone... .But was not strong enough to meet anybody at the time so just,stuck to that... we talked for the months hrs on end before she told me she had a son... and that he,was autistic.

She,seemed hesitant to tell me this but it did not phase me and I was growing fond of her and our,t asks by this point.

...

Then one day she confessed... .I have BPD.

My heart was in my mouth. I told her,  I'm sorry

But I can't meet you now

I just can't go through that again

She said she understood and was calm about it which made feel silly and cruel.

After another month past, we agreed to meet.

Ive been with her for 3 yrs this year and we've raised her now 8yr old son together for 3 yrs.

But it has not been plain sailing. Very possessive but so affectionate. The manipulation!  just when I'd start to feel safe


Always the rug pulled from under me. Silly accusations and misunderstandings galore. Plus her sons meltdown tantrums came thick and fast if she'd kick up loudly. He'd be angry at me

I left her today. One outburst this morning was one too many. Now I'm worrying for her and our boy. Bit my mental health also.

What to do... .x

[anglian365]

  Hi  Lu2012!

I am so sorry to hear about your leaving your partner and son and being worried for them and your own mental health.    When I got to that stage, I felt I was being torn in two, but I knew I had to look after myself first. You must have had such an exhausting and draining time. You have done the best thing for yourself, at this moment in time, give yourself some breathing space.  Have you got any support from friends, family?

I think it would be a good idea if you started a thread of your own, I worry that your important post will sort of get lost on the bottom of mine... .There are many people on here who are much wiser than I am, who can offer you more detailed help and support.

In the meantime, from someone who is in the same position (more or less) as yourself, can you get some rest, and based on your past experience, think what's going to be best for you in the long term - what is your instinct saying to you? I too have had a previous relationship with someone with undiagnosed BPD, and had a breakdown over it, being without the tools and help that are available now.  I never thought I would be in this position again, but here I am, and am determined to come out of the situation in better shape this time! 

So stay strong, Lu, you will always find help here!

x

[anglian365]

Dear J,

Again, thank you so much for your support!