Not seeing the children (For bravhart1)

[warhar]

This is in response to an answer I made in another thread, which saw bravhart1 asking for more detail.

Long story short: I haven't seen my children since Christmas. bravhart1 asked, quite reasonably, why not? Why would I not fight for more access?

So here's the back story.

My BPDexW had a job working Saturdays. This meant that the children were home alone all day long, unattended. I took to going to her house and preparing a lunch for them and that way getting to see all of them. After lunch, whoever wished to, would join me at my house and I'd return them in the evening.

She didn't like this much so changed her working hours to Saturday mornings and informed me that henceforth, she'd deliver the children to me every Saturday at lunchtime.

ExW is a master at the 'damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't' game.

I knew she'd be using the 'you can't go to the party, because you HAVE to go to your father this afternoon' or the 'you cant play that match because you HAVE to go to your father this afternoon' lines on the children and this would obviously create a cloud over the visit.

To avoid that, I said: 'let whoever wants to, or is free that afternoon, come out to see me'

Fine.

What I didn't reckon with, is the subtle (and not-so-subtle) pressure she puts on people who aren't doing exactly what she wants them to do.

I'd forgotten how when she decided that a friend, or a neighbour, or the cat, or the dog or me was that week's enemy of choice, we all had to prove that we were on her side by joining in with the irrational hatred, scorning, plotting and general chaos of warfare.

If anybody dared to suggest that maybe the cat or the neighbour or whatever wasn't quite as bad as she was making out, then that poor individual would immediately be added to the 'enemy list'

Life becomes pretty unbearable when you're on the enemy list. Especially as a small child. Siblings are allowed to break your toys and beat up on you, Mummy's watchful eye is averted when you are on the 'enemy list' and the siblings are given free-rein to teach you a little lesson or two about solidarity.

And because we were all so closely attuned to her, the identity of the 'naughty child' was quickly realised and without a word being said, we all knew whose life was going to be made a misery for the foreseeable future.

So, getting back to my access - the same thing (being placed on the enemy-list) happened to children who volunteered to visit me, or who after visiting me, had something positive to say about the day.

They were subtly reminded that I was the enemy and that the enemy list had space for more ... .

My eldest son has left home and because he refuses to take sides against me, has found himself, like me, on the permanent Bad-Boy list.

His younger siblings have learned the lesson.

To keep off the enemy-list, the children are no longer 'wanting to see' me.

So, do I fight for more access (and thus make life rather unpleasant for them when they return to their mother after the visit) or do I not?

[Stolen]

How old are the kids?

And the "who do we hate this day/week/month?" is a familiar one.  Step out of line and its "you never support me"  "you always take Their side" etc.   Oh so familiar.

Read all you can by Childress and Warshak.  This often gets worse.

I've seen my daughters (17/20 now) less than 10 hours since letting xW move them out in summer of 2012.  I figured this would let me have more direct access to them, away from the crazy making.

Wrong move.  I should have fought tooth and nail to limit her access.  Once away in her world, they were lost and there was nothing I could do.  They were then 13/16, Court determined old enough to decide where they "wanted" to be.

Do whatever you can to have the maximum time with them. 

[bravhart1]

I guess I would have the court tell ex that she has to send the kids for your parenting time without fail whether they want to come or not. Then I sit them down and explain just how you are unwilling to give them up, no matter how much mom wants to break you apart.

I believe the kids of people with BPD need the healthy parent more than the other, and they need to see the healthy parent enforce boundries with the ill parent. I don't know how old your kids are, but it sounds like they are old enough to be left alone, and young enough to still be influenced by moms whims.

Why can't play dates, parties and games happen on dads time? Why is it only an option if they are with mom?

Is there a court order in place now that says how much visitation you get each week? It sounds like you were only getting what you could sneak, steal and cajole mom into giving you. Is that wrong?

[Thunderstruck]

Is there a court order in place now that says how much visitation you get each week? It sounds like you were only getting what you could sneak, steal and cajole mom into giving you. Is that wrong?

My DH was stuck in this situation when he first left uBPDbm. Then when he stopped doing things on her demands, she withheld all visitation. DH went 4 months without seeing SD11 (7 at the time). Then uBPDbm started "allowing" visitation in exchange for money. DH would have to literally sit there in the parking lot and paypal the money before SD was allowed to get into the car.

It took a long time (3 years) until we got a temp CO and 50/50. And now his relationship with SD11 is really good.

But anyway, I can fully understand the gatekeeping. We lived it for 3 years. Can you go to the school and have lunch with the kids?