Lack of hygiene

[Rockieplace]

I know once more that I may appear to be making a mountain out of a molehill but my BPDd33's lack of hygiene in the home is causing her to become more isolated especially from her sister and her niece - our gd.

Her home has deteriorated badly (it usually is a bad sign when it goes like this.)She has two dogs too which don't make it easy. Now my other d doesn't want her d, my BPDd's niece to go round there because of the dirty surroundings but won't tell her why. My BPDd keeps asking me why because she does love her niece and is quite good with her. I wasn't sure I should be the one to tell her the reason but, at the same time, I want to help her to have more contact with the family as a whole and I know the state of the place is proving to be an impediment.

I just asked her if she could think of a reason why her sister shouldn't want her round there and she said no.

Any advice on how to deal with this would be most welcome.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

It is tough to not get caught in a triangulation that could become drama driven.

Encouraging your daughter to tt her sister about her concerns for her daughter (the niece) without being dramatic is advisable.  Maybe something like... ."We both enjoy spending time with you and would like to be able to do so.  I have some concerns about the conditions of your home right now and how they might negatively impact ______'s health.  If you can address these concerns we will be happy to come and spend time with you/ happy to bring niece to visit.  In the meantime lets get together at the _____, park, _____, zoo, _____.

And if your other daughter is so inclined she might add:

If you need some help with this let me know, I know how things can sometimes get away from us quickly and become overwhelming.  It happens to all of us at some point.  

[Violettine]

Agreed; this is great!

It is tough to not get caught in a triangulation that could become drama driven.

Encouraging your daughter to tt her sister about her concerns for her daughter (the niece) without being dramatic is advisable.  Maybe something like... ."We both enjoy spending time with you and would like to be able to do so.  I have some concerns about the conditions of your home right now and how they might negatively impact ______'s health.  If you can address these concerns we will be happy to come and spend time with you/ happy to bring niece to visit.  In the meantime lets get together at the _____, park, _____, zoo, _____.

And if your other daughter is so inclined she might add:

If you need some help with this let me know, I know how things can sometimes get away from us quickly and become overwhelming.  It happens to all of us at some point.  

[Rockieplace]

I absolutely agree that that approach would be best and the wording sounds excellent. However my non-BPD daughter is not only very blunt and outspoken generally (she would say she calls a spade a spade!) but is also carrying quite a bit of anger towards my BPDd some of which is justified, some not.  I have tried very hard to educate her regarding BPD without much success. My non-BPD is convinced that my BPDd is 'a not nice person' but knows that my gd is fond of her not to mention the two little dogs and therefore is prepared, grudgingly, to let her visit but only if the place is cleaned up!  My non-BPD is at the other end of the spectrum regarding cleanliness - they were always thus even as small children.

I really do hate this illness!  Feeling very down about it all today - sorry - we are having such a difficult time trying to get some help for my BPDd before the next crisis which is becoming more and more inevitable. I had started to feel more confident in my behaviour and understanding but feel that everything is now on the brink of collapse and jeopardy right now.

[Lollypop]

Hi RP

It's the small things that end up being very important isn't it.

How old is your non BPD d and Gd?

What's your honest opinion on the state of the rooms that they would normally visit and spend time in?  A real health hazard?

Im throwing in a suggestion RP. I've spent many years as the "go between" between my brother and sister, then between my sons and their dad. I realise now, far to late in respect to my brother, that this was not my responsibility and that I actually hindered their communication. I'm working hard in stepping back between my sons and my H. Fortunately my H is listening to me and learning as I share our sons troubles and feelings. H wants a better relationship with his sons and I'm showing him how but he is willing and he also sees the BPD for what it is.  My family is quite disconnected despite us all living under the same roof but it's getting better. Slowly.

I think that you think there's four problems and that you think by your daughter cleaning her house then this will help towards fixing the situation.

1. Unhygienic house

2. Family distancing themselves

3. Daughters aren't as close as you think they could be.

4. GD and BPDd miss out on each other.

Perhaps there's other ways of approaching these problems. 2,3 and 4 all relate to understanding and accepting BPD limitations and it comes down to communication.  Do your family and non BPD daughter want a better relationship ?

In the scheme of all the recent issues, how high a priority are these problems right now?

i know I'm challenging you here RP. Who do these problems belong to?

L

[Rockieplace]

Thanks for taking the time to consider the situation. I'll try to be as honest as possible.

Firstly, I am feeling very anxious about the state of the house because it is a serious sign that my BPDd is spiralling downwards again. It is extremely dirty and and definitely a health hazard thanks to the dogs and rotting food lying around etc. My BPDd is probably incapable at the moment of dealing with it but also gets quite irate when I go round if I even try picking up something from the floor that looks as if it is going to get trodden on.  I personally can't have a cup of tea there or anything like that.

My non BPD is 31 and gd is 5.  They are very different people but have had a reasonable relationship until the last couple of years when BPDd's behaviour has deteriorated and my non BPDd has had a lot of stress in her life to deal with too.  My BPDd is so isolated and has alienated so many of her former friends and members of the family I was hoping that visits from my gd would help her a little but that seems to be impossible at the moment.

i just don't know how to handle the situation when my BPDd asks why her sister won't visit or let my gd visit. I'm going to try talking to my non BPDd again to see if I can't get her to tactfully and gently tell her sister the truth. I don't hold out much hope though at the moment. Every time they talk, even on the phone, they seem to end up in a big row.    

[Lollypop]

Hi RP

I can feel your anxiety and, as you say, those signs of downward spiral are very worrisome. By the sounds of it, it really is walking on eggshells.

I asked about the age of your GD because young mums can be very aware of germs, particularly babies. Sprays for everything these days. It would be easier to take baby though by just throwing a clean blanket down and playing, have a cup of tea and chat.  Even if a solution could be found for your daughters to be able to spend time together it sounds like it may be quite stressful as you've said that they are currently struggling with their relationship.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that your BPDd is really struggling at the moment. my BPDs has tried to explain to me how he feels when things are bad, he says all his energies are focused on just getting through that day, trying to feed his absolute raw priorities. I can see that keeping things clean and tidy would be near impossible. I know that feeling when I've had flu and just couldn't be bothered to do anything and I can't imagine how exhausting it just be for BPD sufferers, there's never any relief. Until of course they find the skills to manage better. I think you're absolutely right in thinking that this is one of those times when your BPDd needs all the support she can get because of the medical system stresses.

Mmmmm. You've got me wondering how best to comment RP.  As you know we're side by side at the moment and I often struggle on here thinking "older and wiser" know best. I'm very sorry I don't have an answer for you. LBJ's words are very  wise!

This is how I see it. If your bodd is unwell at the moment and tricky then now isn't the time for your two daughters to connect, particularly because your non BPD is not sympathetic to the problems. Im wondering if your non BPD is worried about more than the hygiene. At 31 and a mum of a curious 5 year old she may be feeling confused and anxious herself as she tries to protect her daughter. Your non BPD is also on a path of dealing with a loved one who is suffering and she'll be making her own decisions as to how she wants to deal with it; what sort of relationship she wants or realistically can have. Everything is so much more difficult when things aren't going well, emotions are high. Sibling relationships can be difficult in "normal" families and BPD causes a whole other element.

You're trying hard to protect your BPDd's feelings. It's very hard isn't it to tell somebody something that you know they'll find hurtful, particularly something so personal. You must be very worried about her reaction and consequences. You've said she's prickly if you try and pick something up so this obviously makes her more anxious. I can see now you're in a catch 22 because you don't want to cause her any more anxiety but she understandably is asking why family aren't visiting. I feel for you RP as you try to make things as good as they can be given the current situation.

I think you've done marvellously RP. You clearly love your daughters and GD and they're a very large part of your life. Wouldn't it be lovely to have that fairy magic wand to cast over everybody?

I really hope your non BPD accepts responsibility for her actions in not visiting and deals with it. I also hope that your BPDd can cope with the truth. I've found it takes my BPDs a couple of days to digest so you'll be getting loads of opportunities for practising those validation skills.

How often do you visit your two daughters? How often do the daughters normally visit?

[Rockieplace]

Bless you L for your thoughtful reply. Yes, I've come to the conclusion that now is not the time for my gd to be around there on her own in any case!  This is probably my non-BPDd's thinking too.

I call around quite regularly -mostly running errands and taking my BPDd to appointments as she has not got a car right now. Quite often she doesn't let me in (much to my relief ha ha) and she's very resistant to offers of help. We have had to gut the place a few times while she's been in hospital but never been allowed to do anything while she's in residence.

The whole situation with my BPDd is deteriorating and I'm getting very anxious and pessimistic again. I'm trying to counteract it with all that ive learnt over the last few months but have to admit I'm struggling. My gd keeps asking me why I'm always crying. There have been a lot of painful events in other areas too which isn't helping. I ended up at the doctors this morning blubbing away and asking for suggestions. She's put me on the waiting list for therapy and persuaded me to try sertraline which I really didn't want but, to be honest, I'll try anything at the moment.  Thanks again. 

[Lollypop]

Hi RP

Im really pleased you've gone to the doctors and agreed to the medication. It's extremely hard to change our behaviours but we must. For once, we need to take care of ourselves and our own well-being. This isn't selfish but very necessary. You need to be and feel well.

I often see on FB mums putting up posts about how much they love their kids, they'd do anything for them. I've often heard that they'd lay down their lives for them. Once upon a time I felt that way. But not now. Ive changed my view as I realised all of my emotional input was given to everybody else. I never, ever, put myself first. This just isn't healthy and as my spiritual growth blossoms I better understand the importance of balance. I matter and I matter just as much as them. I have a responsibility to myself to live my own life the best I can. I'm happy despite my problems most of the time.

Give yourself a hug RP. Have a cuddle. Cry as you feel. Say "sorry, I can't at the moment" and smile for your GD as soon as you are able. I hope those meds kick in soon!

Bless you

X

[Rockieplace]

Thank you. Smiling through the tears!

[lbjnltx]

Your non daughter is struggling with the painful fallout of her relationship with her sister.  We've all been there, struggling to be in wisemind because the emotions are so strong.  Most often all of our emotions are initially experienced as anger.  Anger is a secondary emotion.

It might be beneficial (depending on your non daughter) to talk with her about the primary feelings that she experiences as anger.  This can help her sort out what her true goals are for her relationship with her sister.  When she becomes overwhelmed with the feelings of anger she can remind herself what her true goals for the relationship are (achieving wisemind) and make decisions that are goal based rather than emotionally based.

This kind of conversation keeps you in a position of neutrality while potentially helping your daughter(s) relationship improve.

It is important to remember that we can only provide the opportunities for personal growth, we can't orchestrate the outcome of what we provide.

lbj

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rockieplace]

Thank you.  As always your perspective is very insightful. I agree that I should try to validate my non BPDd's feelings too.  I also agree that I must do my best to stay neutral and not get embroiled in their issue. My non BPD is quite volatile and my BPDd knows how to push her buttons too.

Some of my non BPDd's anger is definitely justified. She is also very resistant to hearing about what BPD is all about. She insists that my BPDd is just not a nice person. The only reason she even talks to her at the moment is because of my Gd. I have to admit I had my reservations about her diagnosis in the beginning as my BPDd was a mental health professional and we all assumed that she was using her 'illness' to get out of a very bad situation she had got into.

I now know differently and the more I learn about BPD the more empathy and understanding I have for her. It has also made sense of a lot of the unpleasant (to put it mildly) situations she has been in over the last 15 years.

I'll keep plugging away with my non though while doing my best for my BPDd who is currently teetering on the brink of yet another crisis.