Younger son - BPD too?

[Lollypop]

Hi

Well it all kicked off today.  I'll try to be succinct.

Bpds25 - returned home nearly 6 months ago, stable, working, self medicates and does not seek treatment. Improving relationships with me and H, less so with younger son.

Non BPDs 15. Massive change in "golden" boys life. Got GF last August and is totally reliant on her - his only joy is seeing her twice per week. Given up all sport, spends most of his time in his bedroom watching YouTube, few friends and rarely sees them outside of school. Deteriorating behaviour at school since February this year. It's a high achieving boys grammar school. I met with the head of year 2 months ago to explain situation at home, change in younger sons friendship groups as my son refuses to do any drugs. At 15 there's a lot that have started to experiment. Also there's s lot of pressure to get good grades. End of year exams in 3 weeks. GF going away in Saturday for a week.

We got a call from head of year. Our son kicked another boy, so hard he had a suspected break. Fortunately, after being taken to hospital it wasn't a break. My son was sobbing, spoke with head of year and also a counsellor who will now see my younger son each week.

My younger son blamed behaviour on anxiety over exams and the "situation at home".

So:

Bpds25 is convinced that younger son is BPD. He got quite angry that we weren't immediately taking control of the situation and getting younger son assessed. He says "don't ignore the signs".

H is feeling useless and just so fed up of our kids making such demands on us.

Younger son has explained:

1. I don't think I've got a disorder. I know I'm more like my brother than my dad.

2. I'm bored at school. I don't see the point. I'm unmotivated. I know what I need to do but can't.

3. I'm finding three subjects really really hard and if I don't do well there'll be consequences. I may get moved down.

4. I need help to calm myself down when I get really angry.

5. I don't want to speak to a doctor, I find it difficult to speak to strangers. I'm shy.

6. I'm very lonely.

7. You don't want to spend time with me, nor does dad.

8. I want to do sports but don't at the same time.

9. I lack self confidence.

10. I can't do anything right in your eyes.

11. You said that things would improve, I'd feel welcome but nothing improves. There's no plan, there's no forward.

12. You all have your own stresses and I get left.

We had a family discussion which proved to be useful in one way but BPDs kept turning it back to him. He apologised to younger son over a few things that had been said. I made it clear to BPDs that he needed to respect others opinions, he wasn't seeking treatment himself and couldn't force anybody to do anything they didn't want.

I'm asking the question to others. I'm reeling and wondering if I'm being manipulated here but can see a very sad, lonely and confused young man.

have you experienced the situation where the BPD adult child finally stops being the "bad" one and the other non BPD child doesn't cope well with the situation? I think this is what is happening

I honestly don't believe my younger son has BPD but ... .

Things were just going too well weren't they.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Shell Shocked]

I am so sorry Lollypop.  Hard to know exactly what is going on but I read a book years ago about ODD (my BPD also has ODD) and in the book they talked about that exact thing.  It isn't exactly the same thing but it could apply.  I hope it is OK to quote here.  From the book:

"After all, most of us are creatures of habit. As your defiant child’s behavior begins to improve, you may find that it causes anxiety and resistance in his siblings. Siblings often don’t want to support the defiant child’s positive changes because they’ve gotten used to the way things were, even if things were not so great. So, now what? One of your biggest challenges will be getting your other children to help support your defiant child’s progress, because the new dance of less defiance in your house will be strange and unwelcome to them. Not only are your other children accustomed to your defiant child’s behavior problems, they get the chance to shine when your defiant child is acting up. Your other kids may fear that they will fall from grace if the defiant child improves. It sounds crazy, doesn’t it? Yet, as much as siblings are victimized by a defiant child’s teasing, and hitting, and the disproportional amount of parental attention he gets, they often feel threatened by his progress, and that’s a big hurdle to clear. The first thing you need to do is be empathetic to your other children’s reactions to your defiant child’s positive changes."

I am not sure if that helps or not but it does give some validation that you could be on the right track.  Nothing is ever easy, is it?  It certainly can't hurt to use the validation techniques with your younger son and to have him evaluated.  It is funny that your BPD son thinks you should do something with your younger son.  My BPD daughter is very much like this.  It is very easy for her to see "signs" and flaws in others but not easy to see them in herself - and even if she does, she has excuses. 

I wish you the best! 

[Lollypop]

Hi ss

Thanks for this extract. It's so good to hear this. My gut tells me this is how it is.

As our relationship has slowly improved with the older BPDs25, the non BPDs15 has started to create.

I've been validating. Thank goodness for this site and my reading. I've learnt so much and this really helps us all.

There's going to be consequences at school and I suspect he may get suspended. There's also the shame he'll face with his friends and teachers.

I'm very aware of the "old" me and I feel so sorry for him. However, I now understand that he needs to face up and be accountable for his actions. There has to be some disciplining measure on our part, we can't invalidate or allow bad behaviour to go unpunished. We need to teach him self discipline and responsibility.

We've sat down and listened to him open up. Attention seeker is an attention needer and he's clearly not coping. I'll make an appointment at school to find out their version and hopefully  work together with them.

So discipline. Not my strength, nor my husbands. We've always been too hard or too soft. We haven't done anything yet. We need to think and get it right but not delay too long. We'll know what the school will do tomorrow and my H and I will talk through what we will do ourselves.

In the perfect world we'd have know exactly how to react and  taken immediate action. What we've done so far is listen and react in a loving and supportive way. Thats the easy bit.

[Gorges]

I got a bit teary while reading your post.  I have a younger son too.  He is age 15 and his sister (shows BPD traits) is 18.  He has always been easier but occasionally has problems managing emotions but he can also be reasonable.  It sounds like your son was able to clearly articulate his feelings.  I don't think you need to punish if the school is giving consequences.  It might be an opportunity to give your younger son attention and support.

Your older child is not a therapist, doctor or teacher and certainly was not hired to diagnose your younger son.  I would just ask that they worry about themselves.

I have been thinking about separating from my husband because we share such different values and we can't seem to agree on raising our daughter, 18.  The worst is her treatment of me.

I never left because of wanting to stay together for her and my son.  I was recently thinking of leaving again because my younger son is so strong that he could handle it.  After reading your post, I don't think I can leave.  I just can't put my younger son in that position.   I could do what someone else here did which was stay in a hotel room when things get too out of control at my house.

[Lollypop]

Hi gorges

My younger son is very reasonable, mature beyond his years.

Your comment regarding BPDs not being qualified really resonated and I'll use this. Thanks.

My BPDs apologised if he overstepped the mark yesterday. He said he just feels very strongly about this and is amazed we "can't see". I thanked him for his honesty and that some of the things he's said helped the younger son.

I hope that this whole situation will help him along his own maturing and seeing his too great a reliance on us. He's 26 next birthday.

H is very teary, frustrated that he can't speak his mind with BPD. Fed up with being, what he sees as being accused, as a bad dad. Both of my young men want a better relationship with their dad but he's old school and isn't touchy-feely kind of guy. H is exhausted with it, wants them to stop making him unhappy. H says he feels like leaving.

Younger son is clear about what he needs. I'm struggling with how to deal with him as he "pulls out the anxiety card". I'm not saying this unkindly, but how on earth am I approach discipline if he's anxious? He's never been any problem, never needed telling twice when he's stepped out of line For some small demeanour.

So many needs. I have a life. I matter. I tell myself this often but it's hard fighting for myself in all of this. My younger son has said he feels neglected, yet I'm always asking him to join in but he doesn't. He obviously comes first but I really, really need the space for myself and I start my degree in sept as s mature student.

I'm stretched very thin.

Request for meeting at school is made. One step at a time.

Thanks for reading.

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollypop

Hang in there   What I find most interesting is your men are all feeling and speaking out to you and each other, more than you may wish at this point.  Is that because you have worked at providing the environment to be, their path? It may feel tough at this point and feel like you are in a class room. I really feel for your young boy, a growing man among older men.

Day by day, thinking of you.

WDX

[lbjnltx]

I am in agreement with Gorges about not leveling out any discipline at home if the school is going to hand down their own disciplinary actions.  If the school is too lenient then maybe you can intervene somewhat.

Stand with the school in their decision and stand with your son in support for lessons hard learned.  He seems very sensitive and could, as you say, feel great shame already.  He won't need more than that to learn this lesson.

Where he will need help is in coping with his feelings.

lbj

[Lollypop]

Everyone, thank you

I rely on my gut instincts to help me find the right way. It's always so delicate when there's a complex mix of people in one house.

It opened up a can of worms but H and I have told them both this isn't about anybody but younger son. He is our focus.

it does feel like a classroom at times. I need to learn to step back. It got slightly heated in an interchange with H and BPDs but my H held it and didn't react. This episode has made my H very sad as he realised the extent of BPD traits, it was so evident. I hope H can catch me up in this process but I'll continue to be patient.

Younger son is responding well to the extra focus and general attention we are all showing. Bpds sent him a text yesterday morning that helped younger son as he walked into school. Bpds also called me at lunchtime to voice his own fears; he's pessimistic and fortune telling suidation for younger son. I used gorges words and told him to focus on himself.

Rhanks for the advice regarding discipline. We had already decided to provide emotional support and thought he had faced enough with the school.

Teenager hood is so strange. I sat holding his hand as he told me how he was feeling, like a baby. But with very big muscles, legs and pent up energy. He's started to think about what he could do to change his situation. Very mature  of him.

I told him for the time being, until he gets the skills he needs, when he feels he's going to blow just do an about turn and walk away. Get himself in another environment. Time out to calm down. Seek his new counsellor at school whenever he needs to.

Maybe there's a silver lining not too far away

Thanks again. I feel a lot better than i did