Stressed...

[Cynthia]

So we have been in shelter accommodation  for 5 months because of his emotional abuse towards our youngest daughter. He was served court papers 2 weeks ago including a claim for full custody and restraining order and so far still hasn't  responded and appears not to have a lawyer even though he keeps saying we should now only communicate  through our legal representatives.

Today my daughter told me a friend from school had been talking to her dad. The message came to her that she could meet her dad at this friends house "to talk"... .

She says she doesn't  want to go,  it has always been her choice not to see him. I am going to ask for an assessment  and supervised meetings if and when they do and only if she wants to.

My stomach  is churning... .I can stay calm about house & money and all the other barriers he is putting up but this is giving me anxiety.

[livednlearned]

Hi Cynthia,

Hang in there, friend. You took a really big step and are going through one of the biggest stresses in life. Divorce is stressful as is, and our divorces tend to be high-conflict and probably among the most stressful. If you didn't feel anxious and stressed, that would be pretty unusual.

I understand what you mean about feeling the most worried when it comes to our kids. Nothing made my stomach churn more than having my son in the middle of such a mess.

I'm glad you're out and safe, and that you have a support system in place. Your ex is probably in a free fall at the moment, maybe more dysregulated than he normally was during the marriage, if that's possible. Even though it's sneaky, it sounds about right that he would try and communicate with your D by contacting her friend. Does D have the kind of personality where she can tell her friends that she does not want to receive messages from her dad through them? That if he wants to contact her, it should be through whatever other means she chooses?

Otherwise, ex will likely try to triangulate people and create unnecessary drama that D doesn't need. Also, it always helps to have communication in print if at all possible. Documentation of behaviors is what helped me win full custody and fortunately my ex used email prolifically.

How does the process work where you live? If he does not file a counterclaim (which is what it's called where I live), what happens? Sometimes you can call the Clerk of Court and ask. They can't give legal advice but they can tell you exactly what the next steps are, special deadlines, etc. Some states have good websites to walk you through this and others don't. And unless you have bags of gold, it can cost too much money to ask lawyers to explain what's happening, or what should happen, or what happens if your ex stonewalls and obstructs.

Having knowledge really helped me deal with the anxiety. That, and the peer support I received here.



LnL

[Cynthia]

Thank you for your reply, our daughter has had amazing help from children's mental health services. I honestly do not know what we would have done without them. She has learned how to set her own boundaries and has had limited messaging with her dad. She has for the most part been in control of what contact happens until now. Yes she has said she does not want to see him or speak to him and has made that clear to her friend. I think the friend thought they were helping, our daughter obviously loves her dad, worries about him and had said how lonely he must be... .but he hurt her so badly.

He has 30 days to respond to court documents, then we will ask for a judge to order him to co operate  or give permission to sell without his signature.  Neither one of us can afford the house we were struggling together. Right now I am trying to keep my credit rating going by paying all the essentials  with my name on. Obviously this cannot go on in deffinately.

This site has and is helping me understand what we are dealing with, I am trying to remain patient my lawyer says I am dealing with things well but then then Mama Bear showed up when I thought he was too close.

[ForeverDad]

While things are in transition, use good judgment until the court petitions are resolved into temporary orders.  As my police and lawyers told me, without an order in hand to the contrary then the parent in possession has the control.  For me, during the time when we had no orders in effect, my son was a preschooler and ex didn't work so I never had a chance to find my son in daycare or school.  I was locked out until the court set temp orders.

One the one hand, your child is older and in school and so he probably has ways to gain access.  On the other hand she wants to limit contact and so that is in your favor.  Beware of thinking "I want to show I'm super fair and so I have to go against my concerns and need to grant access."  Beware of feeling overly fair.  (That is generally a good aspect of our personalities but does not serve us well in these high conflict scenarios.)  Let your good judgment take charge, likely the court will not find fault with your caution.

A common experience for us regarding court... .The person behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets credit.

As for seeking court to override him not signing paperwork, that is a hard thing to accomplish and may require multiple returns to court.  Court starts with a massive expectation that the parents will (eventually) cooperate with necessary actions such as selling the house or vehicles, changing deeds or titles, refinancing, selling, etc.  For that reason you have to be very specific from the very start with court concerning what you need done.  Court will be inclined to simply order "House will be sold" think those few words will work.  That's not enough.  That's too vague and incomplete, just as "reasonable telephone contact" or "mutually agreed exchange location" typical boilerplate clauses are not specific enough.  You will need to list the needed steps and actions (like you would list for a three year old) and then also include the specific Consequences for failing to comply with each step of the order.

One consequence that has teeth the pwBPD will feel is a financial $$$ consequence.  But if you don't list it up front it may take a few trips to court before court realizes gentle hints to the Ex won't work as it would with reasonably normal people.  And usually hearings are a couple months apart.  Months-long delays can derail a sale, purchase, split or other remedy.  Sorry, but an order without teeth (consequences) will be perceived by the Ex as a mere weak suggestion and you know how well that doesn't work with them.  

[Cynthia]

What you said Forever Dad, regarding us wanting to be fair, strikes such a nerve.  I have gone out of my way to be fair and your right for what!  I thought I was done so many times because most people just treat others as they want to be treated, unfortunately  this is seen as a sign of weakness by our BPD partners.

The exclusive possession  we are asking for is weakened somewhat as we physically have somewhere to live. But hopefully the almost 6 months of separation  and financial hardship and his lack of judgement/co-operation will get us what we need. I realize it will not happen quickly (I've  been told September ish) and yes we will have missed the prime selling months but once again logic is not prevailing in his mind.

If I come away with the girls, a few bucks in the bank and my sanity I will consider this the best out come possible

I did not leave because I didn't  love him, I left because I had no choice... .

[ForeverDad]

I did not leave because I didn't love him, I left because I had no choice... .

The story of nearly everyone here.  That aspect of our personality is surely one of the reasons it took so long to get here, when finally no other options remained.  You can even phrase it that you didn't leave, you were effectively driven away.

[sanemom]

I did not leave because I didn't love him, I left because I had no choice... .

The story of nearly everyone here.  That aspect of our personality is surely one of the reasons it took so long to get here, when finally no other options remained.  You can even phrase it that you didn't leave, you were effectively driven away.

Absolutely... .it becomes a choice of your sanity or your marriage.  It will all work out, just take it one step at a time.  Don't look too far ahead at this point, especially.  It's too much.

[Cynthia]

Thank you... this will be the longest year of my life I'm  sure... just paid more bills for the house we can't live in but,

We will get through  this... .eventually

[livednlearned]

Thank you... this will be the longest year of my life I'm  sure... just paid more bills for the house we can't live in but,

We will get through  this... .eventually

My first year out was a mix of highs and lows. Living in a crappy apartment with no furniture was far better than the alternative.

What put wind in my sails that first year was seeing my son bounce back. It never got completely easy, though I did see the effects of showing him how to stand up to a bully. That gave me a lot of strength when I felt I had none.

[ForeverDad]

Who is currently in the house?  If he's occupying the house then the temp court order ought to require him to pay all his bills.  That ought to be a no-brainer for the court to address.  You could seek retroactive reimbursement too, though that may be harder.

[Cynthia]

Watching the girls bounce back is the best reward... .I am so proud of how they are handling things.

And yes I guess when everything is equalled out at the end I should get re-imbursed... .

[ForeverDad]

Don't rely on a court order to get compliance.  Many here have had spouses be non-compliant of orders and courts were reluctant to enforce them or order sanctions.  For that reason I encourage you to strategize now for that time when the adjustments are ironed out in the financials stage.  Think LEVERAGE.  That is our best incentive for Compliance.

Likely he will be ordered to do several things, sign papers for deeds, titles, mortgages, split banking and retirement accounts, etc.  Likely you will too, though odds are more is coming to you than going to him.

So if he needs you to sign a quit claim deed or anything else, especially if that means a chunk of money comes to him, then that is your Leverage to get Compliance on the other terms of the settlement.  As messed up as they are, they know the smell of $$$.  (As surprising as this sounds, even our cases can be settled, though generally only at the very last minute at the end of the divorce.)

So when the time comes, remember that you never, never, never relinquish your Leverage until the other terms are met or guaranteed not to be sabotaged or overly delayed.

In my case we agreed to split various assets and I was to give her her equity in the home.  However, the check was withheld (in "escrow" until the last of the deed and mortgage paperwork were finalized.  For me it was a no-brainer since all the money was going from me to her.  I of course could honor the terms of our settlement.  But if she was owing me anything - in my case it was signatures - then I wouldn't have handed over the last of my Leverage ($$$) until I got full compliance.

[Cynthia]

Thanks Foreverdad,

The (fun) has begun. I will heed your advice.