Advice on getting my belongings

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I left my uBPD in early April.  I had originally planned to take my things on a day he was scheduled to be away from the home, but he stayed home that day.  My lawyer had already filed custody paperwork with the court and urged me to leave for the safety of myself and our children.  We are not legally married and the house is in his name.  He originally left messages and sent emails saying I could get my stuff anytime.  Then it changed to it had to be scheduled.  I scheduled and he cancelled multiple times.  Then he demanded my lawyer send his lawyer a list.  That happened and he said I could come on a specific day.  When I got there, he refused to let me take anything.  My lawyer is trying to work with his lawyer to deal with this, but it is not working.  The police will not help unless there is a court order specifying what I can take.

I have an appointment Tuesday and I will run this by my lawyer, but thought someone here might have input too.  I wonder if I should file a claim in small claims court?  I can prove most of what is mine.  My primary concern is my business equipment.  There is no way I can afford to replace it.  The limit here is $5000 for Small Claims and that is not really enough to cover everything, but at least it would document that I am trying to get my things.  Last time I was there he kept reminding me how long my things had been there (after 30 days abandoned he can sell it).

Any suggestions or input is appreciated.

[LilMe]

I left my uBPD in early April.  I had originally planned to take my things on a day he was scheduled to be away from the home, but he stayed home that day.  My lawyer had already filed custody paperwork with the court and urged me to leave for the safety of myself and our children.  We are not legally married and the house is in his name.  He originally left messages and sent emails saying I could get my stuff anytime.  Then it changed to it had to be scheduled.  I scheduled and he cancelled multiple times.  Then he demanded my lawyer send his lawyer a list.  That happened and he said I could come on a specific day.  When I got there, he refused to let me take anything.  My lawyer is trying to work with his lawyer to deal with this, but it is not working.  The police will not help unless there is a court order specifying what I can take.

I have an appointment Tuesday and I will run this by my lawyer, but thought someone here might have input too.  I wonder if I should file a claim in small claims court?  I can prove most of what is mine.  My primary concern is my business equipment.  There is no way I can afford to replace it.  The limit here is $5000 for Small Claims and that is not really enough to cover everything, but at least it would document that I am trying to get my things.  Last time I was there he kept reminding me how long my things had been there (after 30 days abandoned he can sell it).

Any suggestions or input is appreciated.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi LilMe:

Sounds like a very frustrating situation.  What state do you live in? 

I spent some time in the past year to click around my regional Superior Court Website.  I researched what it would take to file for a court order on my own.  I found a lot of information, forms, instructions and opportunities to get some mentoring.   I ended up going another route, but I considered taking my own action.

Best to document everything. I believe he has to give you reasonable opportunity to get your things.  So, make sure to record all of your attempts to meet and pick up your property.  If you state allows for voice recordings, might want to record conversations. 

Unfortunately, lawyers don't have any power to make anything happen without court orders.  Lawyers send demand letters, but if the receiving client doesn't want to comply, then the only way to make them comply is with a court order.  Reasonable people would likely do their best to reach a compromise, but someone with BPD can be very stubborn and unreasonable.  Seems like they can go out of their way to make things difficult and costly.

Would he be more agreeable if you had someone else go to his home and pick up the business equipment? 

[LilMe]

I am in Missouri.  He has made several agreements about me getting my things through his lawyer to my lawyer (lawyers representing us on the custody of our children).  But when I come at the agreed time he won't let me take anything.  Since there is no order by a judge, there is nothing I can do.

Small claims is fairly simple to file and doesn't require a lawyer.  My dilemma is that the limit is only $5000 and my business equipment alone is worth more than that.  But I cannot hire a lawyer to make a full civil case.  Ugh.  I just do not want to be controlled by him anymore, but it seems like he is now controlling me more than ever.

[Naughty Nibbler]

I know in California you can represent yourself in civil court (for dollars above Small Claims)

Have you checked out the website below for Missouri Courts:

https://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=525

If you are already visiting your lawyer for child custody matters, you might want to inquire about what court documents he would be filing, should you seek his assistance for the matter with your personal property.  He might give you a hint of what form you would use.  Then you could go to the website and check it out.  There are also books you can buy about representing yourself in court.  I purchased one from Nolo Press.

Hang in there.  Looks like it might be a slow process, but you will get through it.

[ForeverDad]

At your next hearing in court make it a point to bring up this problem.  Have paperwork of past failed efforts with you.  What you want is for the judge to look at him and ask him to agree to date and time for the pickup.  StbEx will of course agree.  The you or your lawyer needs to say, "Judge, multiple prior attempts failed.  So that we don't have to deal with this again, here is a proposed court order where I have just added the date and time he agreed to just now for her to pick up her personal belongings including her possessions specifically listed here.  If we all take a minute to sign it and get it done then we won't be back here again and again over it."

Then, if you can get that, have the order in hand and get an officer to accompany you (called a "peace visit" to ensure peace and encourage compliance) to quickly gather your things.  Perhaps bring someone to help you remove them.  What would you do if some of your crucial items are "missing"?

My ex used HIPAA as a way to block my access to my son's child therapy records, in all, for over a year.  We had separated when son was three years old and for the first 3 months I didn't even know about it until an insurance recertification letter arrived in my mail.  At first she claimed I was a suspected child abuser and that worked well, the agency studiously gave me the cold shoulder for nearly a year - until court eventually had some evaluations in hand.  At that point ex's strategy changed and claimed she feared endangerment because of her many comments to our child's therapist and agency.  And of course the agency stonewalled me with this new wrinkle.  By then I had already approached the court twice during hearing on other divorce issues, first the court assured me that in the temp order I had statutory rights to access my son's records, the second time the court got my ex to agree to sign papers with the agencies granting access.  Of course she never did.  So the third time I made a specific motion to get access to son's records.  Court made my lawyer research HIPAA law and rules.  Finally we had a hearing and the magistrate signed the motion as an order.  I picked up some 200 pages of records within two days.  My lawyer had told me it would be mostly blacked out, but it wasn't.  I didn't see my initial letters to the agency, not sure why they weren't kept.  Of course, the agency was silent about apologies, they weren't going to expose themselves to further litigation.

Several months later when my ex raged at the pediatrician's staff and got herself 'fired' (letter to her as temp custodial parent stated they were "withdrawing services" but I was never notified.  And ex didn't notify me either, of course.  When I called the pediatricians a week or two later they refused to talk to me, referring me to their lawyer.  The lawyer also stated they couldn't talk to me, but obliquely asked whether I wanted to request son's records?  Of course I asked for his records.  No charge, too, staff was silent but very helpful.  Yes, my ex, remembering her prior success with this delay tactic, had claimed HIPAA issues.

Your lawyer should still bring with him a motion for Contempt of Court or whatever else is appropriate.  If he isn't reasonable, then maybe submitting that to the judge (you might have to do that beforehand and get it served too?) that will cut some wind out of his sails.  And likely the judge will welcome some additional leverage to get him to behave and sign the already prepared settlement papers right then and there.

Remember, NEVER agree to his promises to review it, think about it and sign later.  That is another typical DELAY tactic.  Whether it is conscious or subconscious, who cares?  The end result is even more DELAY.

My story... .THREE times on three separate court appearances that were months apart I complained to the magistrate that I couldn't get access to my son's therapy records.  We were mid-divorce and the first time the magistrate stated I had statutory rights clearly stated in the temporary order and thought that settled the problem.  It didn't.  The second time my then-stbEx promised the magistrate to sign releases or whatever so I could have access.  The magistrate again thought that settled the problem.  Never happened!  Third time was my motion to ORDER the therapy agency to release son's records. Finally, the magistrate signed it into an order and the agency immediately complied.  In all, I was blocked from those records for a year.  (Yes, it was filled with numerous child abuse allegations, not from preschooler son but from obstructive then-stbEx.

I learned my lesson, if it's not signed right there in court, it probably won't happen!  Learn from my experience... .the only sure thing is getting it done while you're right there in court!

[LilMe]

Thanks, ForeverDad    If I ever get a court date I will definitely ask my lawyer if we can bring it up.  We personally know all the judges in our county so they have had to assign a judge from another county to our custody case.  We still have no court date and I filed over 2 months ago.  I am trying to be patient and know that it is a sloow process.  And since we were not married, I believe we are limited to custody issues.

I talked to my lawyer yesterday, but had to update her on the latest weekend drama and ran out of time.  I have another appointment for today.  Hopefully there will be time to talk about this issue too.

In good news (I think?), he keeps following us places and taking our baby away from my 14 year old when she is holding her.  Over the weekend he grabbed her arm hard and jerked her at a public event and she almost dropped the baby.  He called the child abuse hotline on her (This is the 3rd time he has reported us for something).  He didn't realize that several adults and teens at the event saw him grab my 14 year old and one of them got 5 signed statements and went and filed a report with the Sheriff.  My lawyer suggested getting a protection order for my 14 year old so he won't be able to follow us around.   I just want the drama to end because it is horrible for all the children and especially my 7 and 8 year old!