Difference in breakups with normal people and pw PD's...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Your also right about the "this is who I am".  BPD don't know who they are so they tell you things like, "I love how you are such a good step mom to your ex step son still even though you divorced his Dad years ago" then turns around and days later says, "I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."  They give you mixed messages and absolutely opposite messages. I would love the guy forever that recognizes I have a bond with my ex stepson because I was in his life since he was a month old. I want nothing to do with the guy who would say " I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."

More importantly than what he is or isn't doing, I am looking more and more closely at what I am doing and I find myself thinking, "This is NOT who I am and this is NOT how I want to be." In past break ups, I didn't raise my voice. I didn't tolerate crap. There was one break up with a guy that I was pretty serious with and it got to a point where he would come visit me at work. I let that go on for a while as he and I negotiated the break up. At some point, I called security and had them deal with him. I didn't flip out. I didn't get ugly. I calmly dealt with it. I was anxious and upset but I still managed to keep my composure and live up to MY standards of behavior. It was so much different than anything that is going on with stbx.

[vortex of confusion]

Your also right about the "this is who I am".  BPD don't know who they are so they tell you things like, "I love how you are such a good step mom to your ex step son still even though you divorced his Dad years ago" then turns around and days later says, "I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."  They give you mixed messages and absolutely opposite messages. I would love the guy forever that recognizes I have a bond with my ex stepson because I was in his life since he was a month old. I want nothing to do with the guy who would say " I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."

More importantly than what he is or isn't doing, I am looking more and more closely at what I am doing and I find myself thinking, "This is NOT who I am and this is NOT how I want to be." In past break ups, I didn't raise my voice. I didn't tolerate crap. There was one break up with a guy that I was pretty serious with and it got to a point where he would come visit me at work. I let that go on for a while as he and I negotiated the break up. At some point, I called security and had them deal with him. I didn't flip out. I didn't get ugly. I calmly dealt with it. I was anxious and upset but I still managed to keep my composure and live up to MY standards of behavior. It was so much different than anything that is going on with stbx.

[FallBack!Monster]

The difference... .

  Breaking up with a normal person, I was able to keep a line of normal communication with; for many years sometimes.  Also, after the break up, even though we both know is over, we are both apologetic and talk to one another in a gentle way.  We can still share laughs on the phone, call each other once in a while... .etc and when you bump into to the normal ex, you are never afraid of saying hello.

With the abnormal one, all of the above is the total opposite.  But I believe where we folks get it twisted is that we get stuck wanting and forever waiting for it to be like a normal break up.  Oh and if I ever "accidentally" run into my exBPD I feel it is no accident because they usually try their best to avoid you.

SO... .THERE!

[Zon]

(trimmed for 3000 character limit)... .  Also, I lacked the ability to say no to many things requested of me which is due to having a very hard time hurting people intentionally or unintentionally.  The latter is a weakness of mine.  "Will saying no hurt the other person or make them angry?"  Hmm... .noting that down for my next T visit.

Let me clue you in, Zon: people pleasing is not as altruistic as it appears. It often turns out to be an ancient strategy that was used with an adult in your childhood - because your options were limited and you were very, very dependent on this person. Perhaps this was someone you were afraid of (so you pleased them because you feared their anger), or someone that was emotionally manipulative (so you pleased them so you wouldn't "hurt" them).

You still use the strategy today - even though you have many options and you are not "life and death" dependent on the people you are pleasing.

I never thought of it as altruistic.  I do not deal well with pain in others.  Their pain becomes my pain, so it is best to prevent their pain.  Empathy is good to have unless the boundary is weak.  I have thought back to my parents and grandparents.  I was a quiet child that did what was told of him from an early age.  Everyone was actually trying to get me to talk more.  If I used that strategy, it was from a very, very early age.  I was just happy to be quiet, watch things and think.  If anything, I doubt it is from anger from others.  I got along with everyone in my family rather well including her.  Another reason I doubt it is from anger is because I was shocked by my wife's anger as I had never experienced someone dwelling upon it like she does.

Have you ever thought about this in depth?

Definitely!  I am INTP.  Everything is in depth, from multiple angles, for long periods of time.  Rumination is what I do best. 

If my therapist was here, she would ask you to notice the sensations that arise in your body when you try to resist the urge to people please; when you say no or turn someone down. I am not a people pleaser, so I can tell you with certainty that I don't experience any bodily sensations when I say "no".  What about you?

I spoke with my T today about it.  He asked how I felt when I were in situations where I felt I should have resisted my wife's arguments.  A little fear but mostly anxiety.  I have a deer in the headlights experience.  Slowly, I have been reducing this.  In the last argument, I stood my ground for awhile.  I eventually left the argument but did not let the deer in me win.  If this was anyone else, I would have sliced and diced her argument with logic.  I love logic and have a hard time with it with her, which annoys me.

[Zon]

My wife talks about not doing as much "next time", however, she somehow has it pushed upon her.    Hostility to any intimacy, even a comforting hug, is usually followed by her belittling me for not thinking of all the stress she is under.  Sadly, she is always under heavy, self-induced workloads.  Similar?

To your comment about worries about the children, that is a big reason I have not just left.  The worries may not hold me back much longer though; she is focusing more upon our daughter than me.  I may have to leave for the sake of the children.  *sigh*

Ja that's it - very similar. Bizarre that.

Mine got violent and staying was going to be dangerous for me. Leaving has also been dangerous. She is psychotic at times. If you ever do decide enough is enough. Be very thorough and clinical. Or be prepared for nuclear war. NPD/BPD is an explosive mix and she garnered alot of support from all those groupies she spent her life serving.

My wife has not exhibited anything nasty towards me, but she has said a few unnerving comments about my mom.  I will be very careful.  Thank you for the warning.

[jhkbuzz]

I spoke with my T today about it.  He asked how I felt when I were in situations where I felt I should have resisted my wife's arguments.  A little fear but mostly anxiety.  I have a deer in the headlights experience. Slowly, I have been reducing this.  In the last argument, I stood my ground for awhile.  I eventually left the argument but did not let the deer in me win.  If this was anyone else, I would have sliced and diced her argument with logic.  I love logic and have a hard time with it with her, which annoys me.

That is a "fight/flight/freeze" response. A nervous system response. For some reason, your nervous system perceives a threat to your very survival when you say "no," or when you try to assert your needs.

There are reasons for this. Only you can uncover what they are.

I am logical as well and also had a breakdown of my ability to be logical with my ex at times.  Looking back on it, I realize it was because she was emotionally manipulative (perhaps unintentionally, perhaps not), and because I was out of touch with my own emotions.

[Moselle]

That is a "fight/flight/freeze" response. A nervous system response. For some reason, your nervous system perceives a threat to your very survival when you say "no," or when you try to assert your needs.

There are reasons for this. Only you can uncover what they are.

Interesting observation jhk. Did someone, our parent or caregiver use punitive measures to enforce rules like "Put others needs before your own", or "You're not good enough"? So that it becomes anxiety inducing to break the rules?

[seenr]

Had a 10 year on & off relationship with a non-BPD. After splitting, we didn't talk for 3 years, but it was more to give each other space than any ill feeling against each other.

After 8 years with a BPD, I am worn out, feel like I am going insane, somewhat depressed, scared, tired, confused - none of this was felt with the non-BPD breakup.

There really is no comparison. One is sadness, the other a whole range of emotions hitting over us wave after wave, where happiness was like a cliff. When you got there with the BPD it was like go backwards or jump off. Either is going to hurt, they make it feel like a cliff all the time.

[jhkbuzz]

That is a "fight/flight/freeze" response. A nervous system response. For some reason, your nervous system perceives a threat to your very survival when you say "no," or when you try to assert your needs.

There are reasons for this. Only you can uncover what they are.

Interesting observation jhk. Did someone, our parent or caregiver use punitive measures to enforce rules like "Put others needs before your own", or "You're not good enough"? So that it becomes anxiety inducing to break the rules?

I don't think it's that straightforward. Children often can't make sense of a chaotic caregiver's behavior, but they know VERY well that their survival depends upon the caregiver. Children are very adept at "reading" adults and doing whatever it takes to survive.

I am not actually a people pleaser - all I know is that nervous system responses are pretty easy to recognize. They bypass the "thinking" brain and are felt in the body. ":)eer in the headlights" is a freeze response. Interesting, a freeze response is one that is often successful for prey animals.