Mediation Wednesday any words of wisdom?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Mediation is happening on Wednesday. I'm both happy and super nervous. My settlement offer presented was straight forward, fact based and has all the doc's to back it up. His offer was beyond ridiculous, full of lies and not one piece of documentation submitted but we are told he will have them at mediation. Most of it we have been asking for months for and through discovery and he has yet to produce.

We are so far off between our settlement offers and his lies are so over the top, that I"m trying to remain hopeful but I just can't see how this is going to get resolved on Wednesday.

Any words of wisdom from you guys would be awesome... .I want this over but I'm not willing to just give in and give up on what is fair. I would be shocked if he comes around. The mediator is going to be working overtime on this one for sure.

Those of you that have gone to trial after mediation didn't work, where you able to submit the original offers so they could see what both sides already proposed? I'm curious as to how that works, if anyones been through that. I know the mediator cannot be deposed nor can his stuff be subpoenaed but just wonder if we would have to reinvent the wheel again with new docs. 

[knowledgeseeker]

Mediation is happening on Wednesday. I'm both happy and super nervous. My settlement offer presented was straight forward, fact based and has all the doc's to back it up. His offer was beyond ridiculous, full of lies and not one piece of documentation submitted but we are told he will have them at mediation. Most of it we have been asking for months for and through discovery and he has yet to produce.

We are so far off between our settlement offers and his lies are so over the top, that I"m trying to remain hopeful but I just can't see how this is going to get resolved on Wednesday.

Any words of wisdom from you guys would be awesome... .I want this over but I'm not willing to just give in and give up on what is fair. I would be shocked if he comes around. The mediator is going to be working overtime on this one for sure.

Those of you that have gone to trial after mediation didn't work, where you able to submit the original offers so they could see what both sides already proposed? I'm curious as to how that works, if anyones been through that. I know the mediator cannot be deposed nor can his stuff be subpoenaed but just wonder if we would have to reinvent the wheel again with new docs. 

[ForeverDad]

Rule #1... .You do NOT have to reach a settlement in mediation.  Repeat, it is okay if mediation fails.  So don't feel under any undue pressure.  If you remember one thing, it's this if negotiations go nowhere... ."Sorry mediator, I can't accept such unfair terms.  I will have to proceed to court, at least there any decisions ordered should be much less unfair than the other parent's terms."

To repeat, if you feel you have to get a deal in mediation then odds are you may end up accepting poor terms.

Pattern #1... .You are much more likely to get a less-unfair offer from the other parent/spouse later in the case.  Early in the case an acting-out stbEx is probably too entitled and controlling to agree to fair terms.  However, later, often just before a major hearing or trial a less-unfair settlement may be reached.  Sadly, that's more expensive but in our sort of cases there are seldom quick fixes.

[david]

I went to a mediation with my ex years ago. Went round and round for about 3.5 hours. I actually agreed with everything ex wanted and she said no. The mediator explained to her that I was agreeing to everything and asked her why she was not agreeing. I had no intention of doing that but wanted the mediator to see that. At that point I simply said I was leaving since it was too nice of a day to waste indoors. Went to court and it was settled the way I thought it should.

[knowledgeseeker]

Rule #1... .You do NOT have to reach a settlement in mediation.  Repeat, it is okay if mediation fails.  So don't feel under any undue pressure.  If you remember one thing, it's this if negotiations go nowhere... ."Sorry mediator, I can't accept such unfair terms.  I will have to proceed to court, at least there any decisions ordered should be much less unfair than the other parent's terms.

I spoke to my lawyer yesterday. She had finally reviewed what he submitted to us and the mediator. She laughed and said she can't wait to see what he brings in if anything. She said she's not even sure he approved the brief letter his lawyer submitted to the mediator. It doesn't seem like he's being fourth coming with his own lawyer its weird. And the stuff that he makes up is out of this world and so easily proven. My lawyer doesn't think he wants to go to trial, I know this man better. I know he's expecting to walk in and get his way with out any documentation or he will just make up bogus documents as he did earlier during discovery.

I have a hard line on whats far and what my lawyer says a trial judge would award me and I will thank the mediator for his time if its anything less than that. My lawyer says the mediator will most likely spend most of his time in our room since we have actual documentation and that its going to be more about educating his lawyer on the facts and the docs that back it up and it will be his lawyer and the mediators job to bring stbx around. I'm still not confident that will be enough. I know him well enough to know that he thinks he's gong to walk in and use big words and treat this as if he was negotiating a vendor agreement for his job and just tell us how its going to be. Lawyer says the one that has the documentation to back up everything up typically is the one that gets what they are asking for. I'm glad the mediator is in my lawyers building as we will be able to stay in my lawyers office and have all our binders and our finger tips.

Thank you for your feedback. It truly is valuable and so appreciated!

[ForeverDad]

Some states allow the lawyers to be present, some don't.  Don't feel isolated or unsupported, if need be simply ask for a break, go to the restroom and call your lawyer or others you trust from there.

[david]

Documentation is a key in court.
I was seeking more time with our boys during the school year because ex did nothing to help them with their school work. Our youngest was in second grade when I filed. Ex dragged it out for close to three years. My petition stated that the majority of school work was done when with dad. During that entire time ex did nothing to help either boy. I copied every homework our youngest did. I signed everyone he did with me. Since I signed them ex signed the few he did with her. Never thanked her for that. I had one sheet of paper explaining the pile (6 to 8 inches tall) of homework. Youngest did over 95% of homework when with me. The few he did with mom was either incomplete or incorrect.
During equitable distribution ex claimed we had 1.2 million in assets and that I had stolen most of it. She hand wrote 4 or 5 pages of things she claimed I stole and each item had a valuation. I told my atty I would write the response. I had 40 to 50 photos, from facebook, with over 80 % of the items she hand wrote that I stole. I agreed with her valuation and just asked for my half in cash ($600,000). We had nowhere near that amount but why argue. My atty liked my approach. When her atty seen a few of the pictures she took her client out of the room and we settled in less then ten minutes after they came back. It was in my favor.
My personal favorite. Back in 2007 ex completely emptied our house when she left. I mean completely. An example: the house had 47 electrical plate covers and she unscrewed everyone and took them, the house had three bathrooms and she took the plastic toilet paper holders, I mean everything. Months later I received a letter from our homeowners insurance telling me that you are not allowed to insure your house, rob it, and then make a claim. I read it three times until it finally sunk in because it made no sense. I realized ex made a claim and accused me of stealing it all. Yes, it was some of the same stuff she brought up, in 2010, during equitable distribution. I laughed so hard I had tears coming out of my eyes. I saved that letter because it is priceless.

[knowledgeseeker]

Some states allow the lawyers to be present, some don't.  Don't feel isolated or unsupported, if need be simply ask for a break, go to the restroom and call your lawyer or others you trust from there.

My lawyer and my father will be there with me. My lawyer will be doing the educating and I don't plan on speaking unless spoken to. Lol Or unless I feel like something needs to be addressed. I understand going into this I'm probably my best advocate and I need to remember to leave the emotion out of it and think about it as more of a business transaction so to speak.

[knowledgeseeker]

My personal favorite. Back in 2007 ex completely emptied our house when she left. I mean completely. An example: the house had 47 electrical plate covers and she unscrewed everyone and took them, the house had three bathrooms and she took the plastic toilet paper holders, I mean everything. Months later I received a letter from our homeowners insurance telling me that you are not allowed to insure your house, rob it, and then make a claim. I read it three times until it finally sunk in because it made no sense. I realized ex made a claim and accused me of stealing it all. Yes, it was some of the same stuff she brought up, in 2010, during equitable distribution. I laughed so hard I had tears coming out of my eyes. I saved that letter because it is priceless.

Oh wow... .just wow... I don't understand this disorder sometimes. There just is no common sense what so ever. I truly feel like my stbx is on another planet. The stuff he comes up with is mind blowing and 90% so easily disprovable. Whats the point of saying it if you can prove its a lie so easily. Its nonsense and such a waste of time and money.  I have 6 binders full of documentation. I feel good that mediation is in the same building as my lawyer so we can sit in her conference room with all the binders and just pull out any documentation we need and then some. I'm bringing a granola bar and not packing a lunch as I'm not sure how long this mediation session will even last. He has no documentation unless he creates some fake documentation and shows up with it tomorrow. We shall see.

[ForeverDad]

BPD is a disorder most evident the closer you are.  While most people may notice there's something strange or off-kilter about him, it's those who see him behind closed doors when he lets his hair down who see the most clearly.  You've seen it not only because you're close but also because he may feel he can control or dominate you.  If you have children together then he can feel you're tied to him by both the marriage and the children.

Is there anything he really wants?  You may try asking for it in the negotiations, pick things that he could believe you might want.  It may be that his need to win may make him dig in for them.  Then when you finally let him get them, he could feel he 'won' something and then you walk out with some of the things you really wanted and he's none the wiser. It might work or it might not, but no harm in trying.  You see, in his black or white world of extremes he can't see the gray aspects of negotiation.  For him it's Win or Lose.  In his mind he wins and you lose.  You might be able to use that all or nothing world view to your advantage.

[knowledgeseeker]

Is there anything he really wants? 

He wants his boat and he wants to be the victim... .

I got a note from my lawyer earlier today... .the mediators office informed his lawyer he hadn't paid his part of mediation and that he would be showing up late to mediation... .and so it begins. He really thinks he is going to walk in and run the show. I think its funny that he didn't pay the mediator... .in his letter to the mediator he claims that I have harassed him about unpaid bills and run up legal fees as a result... .the truth is he hasn't paid the bills and he's two months behind on almost everything and then he doesn't pay the mediator. How can you tell the mediator you pay your bills on time and then turn around and not pay the mediator on time? The fee was due one week prior. I got the same information and I paid mine part of it on time. Unbelievable. I truly have no idea which personality of his will be showing up tomorrow... .

[flourdust]

My personal favorite. Back in 2007 ex completely emptied our house when she left. I mean completely. An example: the house had 47 electrical plate covers and she unscrewed everyone and took them, the house had three bathrooms and she took the plastic toilet paper holders, I mean everything. Months later I received a letter from our homeowners insurance telling me that you are not allowed to insure your house, rob it, and then make a claim. I read it three times until it finally sunk in because it made no sense. I realized ex made a claim and accused me of stealing it all. Yes, it was some of the same stuff she brought up, in 2010, during equitable distribution. I laughed so hard I had tears coming out of my eyes. I saved that letter because it is priceless.

Oh wow... .just wow... I don't understand this disorder sometimes. There just is no common sense what so ever. I truly feel like my stbx is on another planet. The stuff he comes up with is mind blowing and 90% so easily disprovable. Whats the point of saying it if you can prove its a lie so easily. Its nonsense and such a waste of time and money.  I have 6 binders full of documentation. I feel good that mediation is in the same building as my lawyer so we can sit in her conference room with all the binders and just pull out any documentation we need and then some. I'm bringing a granola bar and not packing a lunch as I'm not sure how long this mediation session will even last. He has no documentation unless he creates some fake documentation and shows up with it tomorrow. We shall see.

It's amazing how much they need to believe their own narratives.

It starts out small. They want emotional support ... .so they lash out at the person who can give them the support ... .and become even more furious, because they aren't able to punish their loved one into being more supportive. Fast forward five years, and they're stealing from themselves in order to prove that they're the victim in a court of law.

I sometimes wonder how they manage to tie their shoes in the morning. Why not just yell at the shoes so that the shoes will tie themselves out of guilt?

[livednlearned]

When people with BPD experience emotional dysregulation to the degree that family law court triggers, they cannot problem solve. Me, I cannot think as well when I'm stressed and it's no different for someone with BPD. What looks like manipulation is more a desperate attempt to get needs met while flooded with emotion. Sometimes in extreme distress, pw BPD will experience psychosis.

Mediation is just a chess move for you. If he cannot coordinate his actions in a way that court requires, then you move to the next step, a hearing or trial.

A good mediator will know how to decrease emotional arousal. It takes a lot of skill, though some professionals know how to do this and can give your ex a sense that he is winning and in control while meanwhile cutting a fair deal. In family law court, it isn't about winning, it's about who loses less.

Remember, too, that in some states, you can agree on parts of a proposal and then the outstanding points can be heard before a judge. In my mediation, we agreed on 95 percent. I would not agree to share legal custody and so that matter was included in the temporary order as "Parties do not agree to share legal custody, therefore this matter will be heard before a judge." Then it sat there until I fired up my L and we collected some good documentation.

Your ex is very ill and that does not excuse his abuse nor his behavior. He has to live with his emotional dysregulation the rest of his life while you can formally end your relationship with him and move on, and heal.

I hope you have a good mediator, and that you feel centered and grounded during the mediation process. You are going in with a fair proposal and have professionals there to help you, plus your dad. You're a strong person, getting stronger every moment and this is just one step toward a better life for yourself.

I wish you well, and know that you have a bunch of strangers out here on the Internet sending you support and well wishes. These are not easy divorces.

LnL