To what extent do they understand a break up

[FallBack!Monster]

Do pwBPD "fully understand" the break up?  Do they fully get that with a break up they lose privileges? Or do they think the only change is that your name is no longer "my partner."

My ex message a relative of mine and asked to have me call her b/c she needed to use the lawn mower.  I called from and unknown number; she answered. How strange b/c she had stopped answering my calls before I knew it was over, but that's neither here nor there.  She also wanted to know if I was still going to buy the lamps I said I would buy to match her new bedroom set.

I explained to her that lots of things have changed between us, and she should now probably be asking her new partner for those things.  She proceeded to hang up on me.  This is all to perplexing. Is she really that lost or was it just an attempt  to see if she can still get me to do things for her?

The way I view her, I wouldn't mind doing things for her now and then, if we kept an amicable relationship.  Which I'm not sure that i'm in the proper emotional state to agree to that either.  However, given all the lessons and readings, I want her to "fully" understand that things have changed.

[zonnebloem]

 

I have asked my ex things... .just because I could!
If he had said "no" to helping me moving , the relationship would have been half a year shorter.
Yes to helping me, was usefull for him, or me,  because even when "things were over... ." they were not realy... .Always we"d find a reason to "stay in relationship"... .a "not-so-happy-relationship"... .BUT we were "with someone".

Great that your NO is a NO.

[once removed]

hi FallBack!Monster 

people with BPD are sometimes referred to as "boundary busters", in that they have poor boundaries themselves, and have difficulty with the boundaries of others. i think thats more or less what you are experiencing.

on the flip side, consistent boundaries on your end are crucial. actions are more important than words, though words can be actions. i think consistent boundaries are the closest you will get to her "understanding".

in other words, dont count on her accepting the words "things have changed". show her. you did that quite well 

[Herodias]

I agree with Once Removed, they don't have any boundaries and like to test people... .Mine asked me to loan him money for an airline ticket while he was sleeping with someone else! Then asks me to take him back after he got her pregnant,... .then actually asked if I wanted to be the Aunt! When I told him that was just to weird, he got mad,  It will stop when you say no enough times... .

[HoneyB33]

Yeah, I was baffled by this kind of stuff too. My ex contacted me after everything just to ask for a phone I had, or to borrow my snowboard. The one time I ran into her at a coffee shop (about a year after things) she literally walked up to me with glee, asking me if I was "back now". I had been out of state since before we broke up. She even went to give me this huge hug. It was like she had been waiting for me to get over everything, and just come back. There was no regard for me. It was just like a huge lolly pop walked through the door, and she ran like a 5 yr old to it. When I looked at her with a stand offish glance, she literally backed away from me in fear, and ran back to her friends.

[zonnebloem]

 

Thanks, "once removed",

I will have to show as well that "things have changed"... .not only by telling but by acting!
The BPD is back, sending a tekst: "love you very very very much,you stupid animal".
I do want him in my life but not the way he wants it.

Ok Ok I know... .I must stand my ground and move on.
Move on to a better, harmonieus life. I'm glad it is Sunday and I'll go to Church where I meet a lady who is concerned to keep me on the right track.
Nice Sunday too!

[VitaminC]

There was no regard for me. It was just like a huge lolly pop walked through the door, and she ran like a 5 yr old to it. When I looked at her with a stand offish glance, she literally backed away from me in fear, and ran back to her friends.

Good metaphor, Honey, the lollipop. ha!

Mine too, like a child, has done similar things in the past. As if he forgot all the pain and heartache and our insane conversations. Suddenly he decides that he's going to be some version of "normal" that he's seen in films and behave as if. And then gets the shock of his life when I don't play my part in the little script he's written in his head.

This is in the past, when we had break-ups that didn't stick. This time - I'm at Week 11 now - I would be surprised if it happened. Although, up there the advice to get centred and so on is what I'm focussing on.

[Hopeful07]

I'm pretty sure my ex thinks he can come back whenever he wants and be with me, even years from now and even if I'm with someone else. It makes me angry like he doesn't take the hurt of a breakup seriously.

[Mutt]

Hi FallBack!Monster,



My exBPDw did something similar. She moved out and took the kids with her and came out with her boyfriend that she had an affair with for about a year. She got into a fender bender and called me to pay for it but I said something similar to her. I said that it's her boyfriend's responsibility now and not my responsibility, at the time, I don't think that they were completely attached and I'm sure that her parents declined to pay for it so she asked me.

A lot of the behaviors from my ex revolve around emotional immaturity, she wants instant gratification for her needs and at that time, I don't think that she was thinking about how much pain that I was going through and wanted to fulfill that request.

However, given all the lessons and readings, I want her to "fully" understand that things have changed.

Somebody else  mentioned boundaries. I think that it's courteous to explain what we need once or maybe twice but if my ex doesn't understand, it's not my obligation to make her understand. If I explain, it gives her many opportunities to bait. I say things once, maybe twice and I set that boundary on myself, eventually she understood that we we're over with no chance of reconciliation through my actions.

[VitaminC]

It makes me angry like he doesn't take the hurt of a breakup seriously.

But, Hopeful, it completely stands to reason that he might think such a thing. It fits with the inability to process emotions and to actually learn anything in a deep way. It fits with the denial and self-delusion that is necessary for survival! It's a self-soothing mechanism, the way I see it, one of the very few available.

The key for the other person must be to do their own processing and learning, to realise that what we'd consider a mature reaction is not really possible, and to not remain in any way vulnerable to that weird belief they (he) may have. If it's nothing to do with your reality, then it's just not relevant.

Having said that, I completely get the anger you'd feel, of course. Eventually, I would say, even that might become a distant (enough) memory. That's the goal for us, surely?

[VitaminC]

I think that it's courteous to explain what we need once or maybe twice but if my ex doesn't understand, it's not my obligation to make her understand.

This. Yes. I wish I'd got this through my thick skull, instead of trying to explain in a crazy variety of words and examples the same thing over and over again.

Once we've said it as well as we can, and nothing that we perceive as "understanding" happens - no feeling of being respected or cared about - then it's on us to decide what to do with that. Accept it or bow out graciously.   

Of course, if that was so straightforward, none of us would be here and this site wouldn't even exist.

Well put, Mutt. Thank you!

[HoneyB33]

Suddenly he decides that he's going to be some version of "normal" that he's seen in films and behave as if. And then gets the shock of his life when I don't play my part in the little script he's written in his head.  

I'm totally jiving with your words VitaminC. This is exactly how my ex acted. When my ex walked up to me, I was totally caught off guard because she seemed so normal. But of course with anything she said to me, it was all like lines out of a movie. I have repeated some our conversations to people, and they usually laugh and say how she literally is like a parrot copying movies... .But yes, that is exactly what happened, my ex expects me to come and play some script with me. I'm actually laughing now, because I remember when she walked up to me she said, "HoneyB... .?" Acting totally baffled to see me, like I had returned from so distant world, and she was embracing me like she thought she'd never see me again. I preceded to stare her down, and she was totally wounded that I wouldn't play things out how she wanted. It's funny because I've always known that basically "I can return, if I will act the way she wants me to." And I have always refused. I already went way too far in opening myself up to her accusations in the discard.


"The key for the other person must be to do their own processing and learning, to realise that what we'd consider a mature reaction is not really possible, and to not remain in any way vulnerable to that weird belief they (he) may have. If it's nothing to do with your reality, then it's just not relevant." Your explanation of them self-soothing with these delusions is very helpful. Because it is totally hard to pull your focus off these lies (being so angry at them) and get back into myself, and not give them any regard. My ex lives this fantasy world where she's some awesome person, and I'm the BPD partner. She even told me that she "forgives me" the last time we talked. She's completely switched things in her head. It's SO hard for me to move past that. I want to smash her delusional little world.

[HoneyB33]

I think that it's courteous to explain what we need once or maybe twice but if my ex doesn't understand, it's not my obligation to make her understand.

Also very good to see this. Admittedly, I have gotten really caught up in explaining things to people. It's refreshing to see that I owe no one any obligation to explain things to them past one, maybe two times. I totally got trapped in explaining things to people, and feeling like I owed some sort of obligation to explain to them. If they didn't "get it", well then how could I ever hold them accountable? Backwards thinking there.

[VitaminC]

My ex lives this fantasy world where she's some awesome person, and I'm the BPD partner. She even told me that she "forgives me" the last time we talked.

Hahah, hilarious. Mine once said to me (very accusingly and angrily, mind) "you must be a very unhappy person to act this way".  I think at the time I was trying to explain very gently something about what I needed, but wasn't getting, and saying how it's ok, because sometimes people just can't give someone else something they need, even with the best will in the world. I was being as unblaming as I possibly can be in this life. It was like Buddha himself, I felt!

So that's what prompted him to point out that I must be very unhappy. He went on to speculate whether it was hormonal or something else.  In his actual words he was trying to sound like a doctor speaking to a patient, although his body language was very hostile. Even at the time I found it kind of funny.

[VitaminC]

If they didn't "get it", well then how could I ever hold them accountable? Backwards thinking there.

I don't know if it's "backwards thinking", not necessarily. But maybe we just don't have to think about it. If someone doesn't get it, well, they just don't. We can just walk away and go talk to someone who does get it.

Of course that's not easy! But that's our goal, at least in intimate relationships. That trap of explaining is just like a sticky spider's web - the more we struggle, the more entangled and trapped we are.   

[HoneyB33]

Haha, I love that you laugh at it. I've totally taken it as so threatening and enraging, that you're reminding me to laugh at it all.

Oh yes, my ex did that exact kind of stuff. When she was breaking up with me the first time, she was telling me "Where's the joy?" This is coming from literally the most miserable person--ever. I was incredibly unhappy--because I was with her! But instead, she turned into how she was unhappy because I was unhappy? Trying to make me feel bad about the effect SHE was having on me. This was also while we were in another country. I had paid for us both to go backpacking. She reportedly told a friend of mine after the discard, that she hopes to "go back to ____, because it wasn't much fun last time." Like I? ruined her trip? The one *I* paid for? Poor poor her, how hard things must be. It's completely enraging. I work hard to be an amazing gf, because I just want to be, and she sits and throws a fit about how there wasn't enough candy--because SHE poisoned most of it?

I laughed at your "like Buddha", because that is literally how I have felt. I feel like I was literally a saint, and she responded to me like this? I think my favorite where the few times I would finally snap and yell at her, and she would react to me like I had killed her favorite cat. Like they literally make everything so impossible, they drain you dry, and when you finally snap--they're the victim?

Thanks again for reminding me to laugh.

[HoneyB33]

That trap of explaining is just like a sticky spider's web - the more we struggle, the more entangled and trapped we are.   

Yes to this. This is where I have gotten stuck the most. Even recently I had things end with someone else, and it was the same situation. Where she expected me to just be friends with her after she broke up with me on IM. And I wouldn't. So I spent several times trying to explain to her that she couldn't just expect that, and that I expected her to take responsibility for how she treated me in the relationship--nothing. I very much slid down the same hill, because I had gotten caught up in trying to explain over and over to someone. Fortunately, after a week of trying to explain to her that "I wanted to be friends, but needed her to acknowledge how she treated me." I just gave up. I think when we realize that we explain things one or two times, then give up. We will definitely be way less invested, and these relationships will have way less power to come into our lives.

[VitaminC]

Oh you're welcome, Honey.   You're cracking me up too.

I don't want to exaggerate my Buddha- like qualities. I could be horrible too. But I don't think I was one tenth as cruel as he. Not that it's a competition.

In my defence, I was cruel initially because I was crap at saying what I really wanted in a simple & forthright way. Too scary and too "boring,", I told myself.

By the time I copped on and decided that now was the time to try out some adult communication of my needs, it was way too late and he'd already gone off the rails. Ironic that I then sent 8 months trying to force myself to be vulnerable & open with the last person in the world who was emotionally able to either appreciate or work with something like that.

I laugh (wryly) at that too. I really suffered during that time.  I'm a big eejit. Sigh.

But anyway, I meant to say that if fear is my defence, then I can see that's  his too.  Bigger fear than mine, I would think. More crippling. With the added benefit of being stuck with that truly pathetic wasteful treatment of life for probably, like, ever. Cuz they can't, or have a much tougher time, leaning anything and becoming that bit more whole .

There's room and time for compassion, but careful with that sort of thing because the last thing you want is your compassion to lead you into some kind of fixit more.  

Anger is justified & cleansing , as long as we don't get stuck there . Enraging is right. I hear you.

We are trapeze artists in all this, balancing,, bit of flying, then balancing. And so on.  

[Lilyroze]

VitaminC

Hahah, hilarious. Mine once said to me (very accusingly and angrily, mind) "you must be a very unhappy person to act this way".  I think at the time I was trying to explain very gently something about what I needed, but wasn't getting, and saying how it's ok, because sometimes people just can't give someone else something they need, even with the best will in the world. I was being as unblaming as I possibly can be in this life. It was like Buddha himself, I felt!

Had to reply to this as getting ready for a retreat... .LOL This made me laugh so hard, and laughter is the best medicine right? Even in a serious topic you need to laugh.

Similar situation, was trying kindly to express a need, then be kind and full of compassion that maybe he couldn't or didn't want to, or whatever the case. Was trying to be Zen and kind all day, not letting anything bother me, ignore, not JADE. The works... .( come on folks work with me here I was trying the Buddha himself, Dali Lama ( be in happiness or just be).

He got angry, contorted his face and said in a lecture you are so mean, always giving me a hard time. Then later told me my thinking was strange when I would bring up be kind, grateful or full of joy. He went on he hated our house, kids, our lives. Where did I get such nonsense thinking, I told him Jesus, Buddha, Dali Lama, Norman Vincent Peale, Joseph Murpy ( anything that might resonate or appealed to him) etc, well they are nonsense characters and wouldn't make it to top level in a game... Huh? No matter how kind I was, silent praying, walking away, zen, he got worse.

By end of day wanted to call the Dali Lama himself to deal with him, and see how he would do it... .hehe Don't get me wrong I was never perfect, made mistakes and we can always learn to be better, have more compassion, be kind. It was just I was really trying that day... . hehe

But do have to say was a precious gift in disguise. I can take that and be even better in life, grounded and centered. It is these skills and my beliefs that will help with other relationships, and with my children. Good lessons to learn.

I can see the disordered thinking and not take personal anymore. I can also see my part in it, and heal it to not try to fix things that aren't mine to fix.

 He and my Mom are the same you can give your all but they will still be upset.

Thanks for the laughs, insight, helpful tips and great post all.
 It is what it is. As long as we realize we didn't cause it, can't cure, and can't control it, we will be better for it. Like nailing jello to the wall.

[VitaminC]

So you're saying we can't nail jello to a wall.  Let me just be with that thought. 
.
.
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My unhappy, hormonal, smart ass, self feels like posting out a packet of jello & some nails  as an anonymous gift.

[HoneyB33]

I don't want to exaggerate my Buddha- like qualities. I could be horrible too. But I don't think I was one tenth as cruel as he. Not that it's a competition.

By the time I copped on and decided that now was the time to try out some adult communication of my needs, it was way too late and he'd already gone off the rails. Ironic that I then sent 8 months trying to force myself to be vulnerable & open with the last person in the world who was emotionally able to either appreciate or work with something like that.

There's room and time for compassion, but careful with that sort of thing because the last thing you want is your compassion to lead you into some kind of fixit more.  

Anger is justified & cleansing , as long as we don't get stuck there . Enraging is right. I hear you.

To the first bit that you said, I don't think it's a competition, but I do think it matters, esp for us, to note. We have to know we weren't anywhere near the level these people operated on (if that's true for us). I spent a lot of time trying to take "responsibility" for things in this relationship, when the truth is--I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not proud of a few moments, specifically once I kicked her bike over (she wasn't on it). But I don't actually feel guilt about that, I feel guilt because SHE put that on me. If I was with any normal person in that situation, it would have not been ok! But it would have been resolved and moved on from. Here I am two years later thinking about it. I think the "score board" is incredibly important in regards to abusive relationships BECAUSE they try to make it seem "equal" or put it onto you. It's reality we're fighting for.

Hahaha, I did the exact same thing. I totally tried to force myself open and to be vulnerable. I think the truth is that I was just so sick of not being able to trust anyone. I had gone through so many relationships of all sorts with PD people, that I just didn't want to hold it in anymore. And for whatever reason, I allowed my ex to convince me this was the problem with our relationship--that I wasn't vulnerable. I think the worst part about allowing yourself to listen to an idiot, is how you feel like an idiot far after that one mistake. I guess I just couldn't understand what it was to be in an impossible situation, with no way out. So in some way, I saw that maybe "me" being the problem was the way out?

"There's room and time for compassion, but careful with that sort of thing because the last thing you want is your compassion to lead you into some kind of fixit more." Do you mean this in light of explaining things to people?

And yes, anger. Honestly, in some ways I've felt held back in my healing because I've feared the change in me. Meaning I've feared becoming super biter or whatever. I think it's more important for me to just feel how I feel. As someone said the other day, they've had to learn to not judge themselves for their feelings, but for their actions. And that their feelings do not control their actions. That was very freeing for me. I think it's hugely important to be angry.

Also, I'm laughing about you jello and nails, esp because they probably wouldn't get it.