The legal system needs to focus on containment--finally

[sanemom]

It has been a while.  I have been concerned about posting for reasons you will see below, but I think this section may be safe.  Things are going extremely well with the no contact order--DSS and DH are getting along wonderfully, and now even the older kids are coming around.  The family therapist said that it is because BPD mom has finally been contained, and the energy of the conflict is gone so the kids are free to love their dad again.

BPD mom is still stirring up drama on the internet... .she found a site full of other crazy people who are now posting about us.  I have friends who have found it and send me updates--I haven't really looked at it much because it sounds like the National Enquirer.  At first I was upset by it, but now I just laugh at the ridiculous things they say about it because it is getting that ridiculous (which is why I was told about it--a friend ran across it and could not believe how outrageous their stories were).  It is at the point where my friends say, "Guess what I found out about you that I bet you didn't even know... ."  This new group of buddies she has found are stuck in 8th grade or something.

We passed her contempt hearing... .may have it later if she doesn't straighten up... .but her new lawyer gets that she is messed up and requested we try more therapy first... .as in BPD mom is FINALLY getting therapy. We also added two more professionals to the team of professionals watching her.  The judge doesn't think it will work, but accepted it for now and made it clear that next time she violates an order, she will be going to jail.  OH--and BPD mom brought DSD in there who heard the admonishment of the judge (he pretty much was saying that based on her behavior in the past in his courtroom, he thinks this new plan only has an "extremely remote" chance of working and her new lawyer better get her to behave because he is done with her).  Gotta wonder what DSD thought of that... .if she is just thinking that the judge has it all wrong. 

So for now she is "contained", but I don't know how long that will last... . I think that is what the legal system needs to do with these people, though.  I keep wondering had she been contained early on (years and years ago), would this have even escalated to this point in the first place?

[ForeverDad]

BPD mom is still stirring up drama on the internet... .she found a site full of other crazy people who are now posting about us.  I have friends who have found it and send me updates--I haven't really looked at it much because it sounds like the National Enquirer.

This reminds me of 95685dad, here years ago, who had both an alienating uBPDEx (with older daughter) and an alienating uHPDstbEx (with young daughter) who waged a vicious web blog war.

So for now she is "contained", but I don't know how long that will last... .  I think that is what the legal system needs to do with these people, though.  I keep wondering had she been contained early on (years and years ago), would this have even escalated to this point in the first place?

About 99% of us in these horrendous high conflict cases feel similarly, "what if"... .  I think the courts just assume the conflict and alienation will fade or will never rise to the level of being actionable for intervention.  Most do fade into some level of being manageable but not all.  And then the courts make minimal corrections in expectation that such tweaks will be enough to resolve the core issues.

[Waddams]

First, I'm really glad to hear that things have improved so much between your DH and the kids.  I really hope that continues.

Second, I hope the judge follows through.  BPDmom getting therapy sounds great and all, but she's still waging her online war now.  I'm probably preaching to the choir but I wouldn't hold my breathe regarding BPDmom actually changing.  I have to admit, my first thought regarding current circumstances you described is that jail has therapists available to inmates.  Anytime a threat is made and then backed off from, I've only ever seen it have the effect of emboldening pwPD in some manner.  Keep your guard up!  Things are better now, but it would be easy for her to find a way to secretly get back into contact with the kids, and I'm certain they are still susceptible to her antics and could backslide.

So let me ask you this - you've spoken a lot about the kids and DH, how are you personally doing with all this?

[ForeverDad]

I too am overjoyed to hear how quickly things have turned around.  Soon son's counseling ought to start giving more focus on him make more informed and independent observations, boundaries not letting others define his reality.  He needs to learn how to trust and stick to his objective observations and conclusions, not let someone with known manipulative behaviors to undermine them.  Odds are she won't change so he needs to improve his boundaries, being like the rock pounded by the seas rather than the log being swept every which way by the endless waves.

BPDmom getting therapy sounds great and all, but she's still waging her online war now.  I'm probably preaching to the choir but I wouldn't hold my breathe regarding BPDmom actually changing.

Excellent point.  Therapy will fail, has to fail, as long as she continues her online crusade and similar actions.  This probably should be documented.  Whichever expert is overseeing the therapy, etc, ought to be made aware of her online sniper tactics.  However, that may just send her to other platforms or venues harder to find out about.  The next time in court you may need to counter a report saying "By all indications she's making solid progress in therapy" with the facts from other sources.

[sanemom]

BPDmom getting therapy sounds great and all, but she's still waging her online war now.  I'm probably preaching to the choir but I wouldn't hold my breathe regarding BPDmom actually changing.

Excellent point.  Therapy will fail, has to fail, as long as she continues her online crusade and similar actions.  This probably should be documented.  Whichever expert is overseeing the therapy, etc, ought to be made aware of her online sniper tactics.  However, that may just send her to other platforms or venues harder to find out about.  The next time in court you may need to counter a report saying "By all indications she's making solid progress in therapy" with the facts from other sources.

Right now the plan is for us to tell the parent facilitator about all of this (she is the head person managing all of the therapists) and see what happens.  BPD mom will not like ANYONE calling her on her online tactics.  DH brought it up to DSD after she claimed reflexively that BPD mom never says anything about him.  I really wish DSD would stop lying for her... .I am sure that is a big ask, but man, if we could at least deal with reality, we could have real conversations.  Anyway, when DH brought the lies online up to DSD, she gave him one of those "I've been caught" looks... .either she is helping BPD mom or she knows about it.

And no, I don't expect for her to change.  I just wonder that now that she knows the game is off, the judge is onto her, WILL SHE STOP THE LEGAL GAMES?  Time will tell... .

[sanemom]

This reminds me of 95685dad, here years ago, who had both an alienating uBPDEx (with older daughter) and an alienating uHPDstbEx (with young daughter) who waged a vicious web blog war.

I may need to look for that... .I have no idea what to expect or anything.  People have said I could report it, sue them, etc., but I think paying much attention to the crazy only serves to escalate it.

So let me ask you this - you've spoken a lot about the kids and DH, how are you personally doing with all this?

I am doing ok for now.  I am just tired of it all.  I want to just live life.  I am content to have some internet snoops just keep tabs on stuff for me and send to our attorney... .years ago, I would have wanted to watch it all because I was so worried about proving this was going on.  I finally don't feel like we have anything to prove anymore.  She crossed a huge line with the false CPS allegations, and I think it made our point for us.

I feel like we have a brief break, but I am afraid that is all it will be.  We have two more years until the youngest is 18.  I have no doubt BPD mom still controls the older two kids when she wants to... .they are very susceptible to her manipulations.  After DSS is 18, I am sure she will still play games, but at least we won't have to hire lawyers, and I feel ok letting the adult kids figure this mess out.  I hope that the judge's definition of it all has maybe accelerated the pace at which they would figure it out (I mean, on top of the counselors, now the judge is telling them they are alienated, and while they may not want to admit to it right now, I hope that having this many people tell them this will help them see it sooner--they have the power of google these days, after all).

I am feeling better though... .I feel validated after all these years.  The first years I feel like we probably looked more nuts because we were so desperate to get people to see what we were seeing.  Now, lots of people finally see it.  So in that sense, I feel more relaxed, and I am hoping now that everyone has BPD mom's game figured out, she will stop trying to manipulate things through court.

[Thunderstruck]

I'm so happy to hear about DSS16 and the other two kids coming around and having a relationship with DH!

That's so funny about the online posts! How on earth did your friends find it? Did she mention you by name? Or is it like on one of those mommy message boards (lots of crazies on the mommy message boards, let me tell you... .) and they just put some pieces together.

I mean, you might not want to escalate it to the point of defamation of character, but you might want to give it to BPDmom's therapist so he/she knows what they're dealing with here. (that might serve just to get BPDmom to stop posting, but it's not going to change her distorted viewpoint).

[PinkieV]

I'm so glad to see your post and hear that everything is going, well, as well as can be.

I'm right there with you on not reading what our uBPDm writes. I used to obsess about it, but I've had to let it go, and I'm so much better for it. My SS16 is in a really good place and that is all that matters.

[sanemom]

I'm so happy to hear about DSS16 and the other two kids coming around and having a relationship with DH!

That's so funny about the online posts! How on earth did your friends find it? Did she mention you by name? Or is it like on one of those mommy message boards (lots of crazies on the mommy message boards, let me tell you... .) and they just put some pieces together.

I mean, you might not want to escalate it to the point of defamation of character, but you might want to give it to BPDmom's therapist so he/she knows what they're dealing with here. (that might serve just to get BPDmom to stop posting, but it's not going to change her distorted viewpoint).

We will definitely be giving the posts to the therapist or parent facilitator--she used my name so it is definitely me, but the allegations do not describe me at all.

I don't want to jinx myself, but BPD mom has been relatively quiet (does her "how's DSS?" texts that are ignored, but that is about it).  She appears to have stopped the online stuff, too.  I am betting that her lawyer has reeled her in.  I hear he is good that way.  She has a new boyfriend so maybe he is distracting her from everything.  Maybe this is just the out she needed to get out of raising DSS16.  She has to behave to get anything other than supervised access to DSS16 so maybe she is just now realizing it and doing what she needs to do.  At the same time, she will have to pay for the supervised visits, individual therapy, parenting facilitator, etc. so I am not sure she will bother... .time will tell.  It seems like money may be tight as even DSD19 has asked for financial help from us and doesn't have a working cell phone.  Before BPD mom may have kept going realizing she was going to get some money in the end, and now those hopes have been dashed.

The nice thing is that her family knows about the no-contact, and it sounds like some of them are starting to realize that maybe she has some accountability there. 

[bravhart1]

Congrats! Having the FOO know about the no contact and actually see that BPDm might have some complicity in that is so very huge. It's may be a step toward DSS seeing that mental illness should not be ignore and normalized.
I had hoped when our SD was put on no contact with BPDm that moms family would say "hey you really need to get serious about seeking help" but alas they just all joined In The chorus of its all DH's fault. They are either suffering from their own PD's or just too unwilling to stand up to BPDm.

I hope that as your DSS learns to relax in the calm household he now inhabits he opens up to the possibility he saw things in a vacuum for moms sake and that that was not in his best interest going forward. And that sanemom and sanedad are pretty cool to have stuck to the hideous task of wading through so much garbage for his sake.

[sanemom]

I spoke too soon... .we passed the contempt hearing with the stipulations of more eyes on BPD mom, and while she agreed to the terms and the judge entered it into the record, guess what?  She is refusing to sign again.

I think our attorney is going to set a deadline, and let her attorney know that if it isn't signed by then, we will get the judge to sign it without her AND will go ahead with that contempt hearing.  Hopefully, that will get her to sign it.

[Thunderstruck]

I spoke too soon... .we passed the contempt hearing with the stipulations of more eyes on BPD mom, and while she agreed to the terms and the judge entered it into the record, guess what?  She is refusing to sign again.

I think our attorney is going to set a deadline, and let her attorney know that if it isn't signed by then, we will get the judge to sign it without her AND will go ahead with that contempt hearing.  Hopefully, that will get her to sign it.

Oh geez, why does the court do it that way? In my jurisdiction when it's ruled on the judge signs it and that's that. I can't imagine that BPDmom is the only person who doesn't like the result of a court hearing so balks and refuses to sign the order.

[Panda39]

"She is refusing to sign again."

This as worked for her in the past... .it seems that in her mind if she doesn't sign she doesn't have to do anything agreed to in the document or she just likes being at the center of the drama.  Either way if she's anything like my SO's uBPDxw she will just continue to repeat what works for her until it doesn't (and sometimes not even then  )

Wash, Rinse, Repeat... .

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

Why weren't both parties told to sign right there before the judge?  Is it that the discussed terms weren't written up yet? 

"She is refusing to sign again."

This has worked for her in the past... .it seems that in her mind if she doesn't sign she doesn't have to do anything agreed to in the document or she just likes being at the center of the drama.  Either way if she's anything like my SO's uBPDxw she will just continue to repeat what works for her until it doesn't (and sometimes not even then  )

Wash, Rinse, Repeat... .

When back in court, ensure she stays right there in court while the order is typed up, don't let her skip out.  Or your lawyer should go in with a prepared order and then the judge can write in (or strike out) any sections according to the judge's decision.  Then get the order signed right then and there with all changes initialed.

[HopefulDad]

I spoke too soon... .we passed the contempt hearing with the stipulations of more eyes on BPD mom, and while she agreed to the terms and the judge entered it into the record, guess what?  She is refusing to sign again.

Wait... .the judge entered it into the record and it's not a done deal, whether she signs or not?  That's strange.

My ex and I have stipulated to things in the courtroom hallway, then walked into court, had one of our lawyers verbally enter into the record what was agreed upon with a comment that we'll type it up later for the sake of completeness.  Once entered into record, it's binding.

File a contempt charge, pronto.  Get a transcript of what was entered into record.