I left, again...is it normal to feel relieved?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Well, I left BPDh not long ago, and he begged to talk to me, and asked for a list of "things he could work on" to make things better. He said he wanted a chance to "make the marriage work". Riiiiight!

As expected, it was the same old, same old. He's in denial of the damage his anger and emotional disconnectedness has on our marriage. He's been slightly less angry, until today. Today, I tried to talk to him about something that had hurt me, and as always, he chose to view it as a "lecture". He takes zero responsibility for his part, and fails to see that his actions and inactions do trickle down to me. I don't have to "let" it make me feel a certain way, but reality is, that it DOES. Cut me, I bleed. Let others mistreat me, and stand idly by(this is what happened at a family event he begged me to attend), and I feel disrespected. I feel BPDh disrespected me, then failed to even listen or have ANY accountability. I'm done with that. I deserve so much better.

I'd only been staying back with BPDh temporarily while I got that job, and now I've moved back home. It will mean a commute, but I'll have a LOT more peace. I can't stand his moods, his rages, his blame, his not working his program or issues, and his general presence at this point. It's gotten to where I can't stand to be around him, as he's hurt me so often, and it's been so deliberate.

I think I only got the whole "what can I do to fix our marriage... .make me a list", and "I missed you", and "please move home" because he'd lost control of me. He was shocked I'd left. He was shocked I was NC for almost two weeks. My gut instinct told me to not even meet him, but I did. Look what it got me: more of the same. He did ZERO things on the list. I basically ended up getting guilted into being around his hateful daughters again, and ended up feeling crappy. All because I always try to be the bigger, forgiving person, and do the "right thing". Well, that has NOT worked out well for me in this marriage. It works great if both people practice that, and both people mostly try to do the right thing. When you live with a person with PD, or just an abuser, they take advantage of that.

I've left again, so he's come home to find me gone. He's not sad like last time. Of course, last time I just ignored him and was immediately NC. I'm betting had I answered right away that time, he'd have been ugly then too. I'd bet anything I got a much different BPDh days later, when he knew I meant business, and was really fed up, and ready to be done.

I'm a little sad, but mostly just wanting to be done with all this. It's been four and a half years of drama, blame, rage/anger and promises to "be better" or demands of what I need to do. Screw that. He doesn't know how to love he says, and I agree. Love shouldn't hurt others. He often told me he'd "end up making me crazy too". Well, he didn't succeed.

Is it normal to just feel relief?

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I left BPDh not long ago, and he begged to talk to me, and asked for a list of "things he could work on" to make things better. He said he wanted a chance to "make the marriage work". Riiiiight!

As expected, it was the same old, same old. He's in denial of the damage his anger and emotional disconnectedness has on our marriage. He's been slightly less angry, until today. Today, I tried to talk to him about something that had hurt me, and as always, he chose to view it as a "lecture". He takes zero responsibility for his part, and fails to see that his actions and inactions do trickle down to me. I don't have to "let" it make me feel a certain way, but reality is, that it DOES. Cut me, I bleed. Let others mistreat me, and stand idly by(this is what happened at a family event he begged me to attend), and I feel disrespected. I feel BPDh disrespected me, then failed to even listen or have ANY accountability. I'm done with that. I deserve so much better.

I'd only been staying back with BPDh temporarily while I got that job, and now I've moved back home. It will mean a commute, but I'll have a LOT more peace. I can't stand his moods, his rages, his blame, his not working his program or issues, and his general presence at this point. It's gotten to where I can't stand to be around him, as he's hurt me so often, and it's been so deliberate.

I think I only got the whole "what can I do to fix our marriage... .make me a list", and "I missed you", and "please move home" because he'd lost control of me. He was shocked I'd left. He was shocked I was NC for almost two weeks. My gut instinct told me to not even meet him, but I did. Look what it got me: more of the same. He did ZERO things on the list. I basically ended up getting guilted into being around his hateful daughters again, and ended up feeling crappy. All because I always try to be the bigger, forgiving person, and do the "right thing". Well, that has NOT worked out well for me in this marriage. It works great if both people practice that, and both people mostly try to do the right thing. When you live with a person with PD, or just an abuser, they take advantage of that.

I've left again, so he's come home to find me gone. He's not sad like last time. Of course, last time I just ignored him and was immediately NC. I'm betting had I answered right away that time, he'd have been ugly then too. I'd bet anything I got a much different BPDh days later, when he knew I meant business, and was really fed up, and ready to be done.

I'm a little sad, but mostly just wanting to be done with all this. It's been four and a half years of drama, blame, rage/anger and promises to "be better" or demands of what I need to do. Screw that. He doesn't know how to love he says, and I agree. Love shouldn't hurt others. He often told me he'd "end up making me crazy too". Well, he didn't succeed.

Is it normal to just feel relief?

[PFCI]

Personally, I feel relieved when I leave the house and go to work.  It means I can escape my BPDw for just a few hours.  So, when I finally leave her for good, I imagine I'll feel extremely relieved that I never have to go back to that horrible atmosphere and life. 

So yeah, it's probably normal.

[Ceruleanblue]

What's funny is that I used to miss him if I was away from him. Now though, it's been so awful for quite some time, that all I feel is relief. Maybe it just hasn't hit me yet? I think so much damage was done, that it changed the way I feel about him, and how I feel about the "marriage". I guess I don't even feel like we had a true marriage. It was so one sided and off balance. To me it felt like me always tiptoeing and giving him his way, or paying a high price for not doing so. I gave him a lot of control because he seemed to need it. When I saw it was abusive control though, I started on some boundaries, and that was very triggering to him. He gets off on having control and being dominant.

I do feel sort of guilty for feeling relief, but I'm also glad that I'm not heartsick, and not missing him horribly. I am just sure that he's super angry at me, and there is no one there to take it out on. I keep telling myself that I have to go through all this: moving my stuff out, divorce, and starting up a new life, in order to get to that better place. Heck, almost anywhere other than where I was would seem good at this point. My new job seems like a wonderful place to be after being isolated and being targeted for his daily rages. I have such mixed emotions. I go from feeling very free, to feeling sad, to feeling thankful that I escaped relatively unscathed, thanks to therapy. I'm going to continue therapy though. Work through "why" I felt such empathy for someone so damaged, and why I stayed when he clearly enjoyed being hateful.

I don't want to kill off my empathy, but I also don't ever want it to be a trap again. I seriously think I stayed because I HATE quitting, but mostly because I felt sad for him. I felt anyone that had the capacity to be so awful had to have serious psychological issues, and I felt that I can endure more than most people are willing to. Just because I can though, shouldn't mean I have to, or that that is what's in MY best interest. I guess in the end, I decided I had to look out for ME. The more I excused due to his mental illness, the more it enabled him to act that way.

[Cat Familiar]

What's funny is that I used to miss him if I was away from him. Now though, it's been so awful for quite some time, that all I feel is relief.

In my first marriage to the abusive husband, I did exactly the same, Ceruleanblue. When I'd finally had enough, all I felt was relief. Not even for a moment did I regret ending my marriage. I only regretted that I hadn't done it years before.

I'm very proud of you. It took a lot of strength to change the course of your life and to get away from an abuser. Keep on doing therapy. That was a very important part of my healing from my first marriage. You deserve so much more than what he brought to your life.  

[The Teacher]

Ceruleanblue:

It's very normal to feel relief. I moved out of my home four weeks ago. It was a huge relief to be free of the life I had led living with a BPD wife. I spent the afternoon today watching my best friend's daughter play a soccer game - something I would never have been "allowed" to do before - she would have claimed my wanting to go was all about flirting with soccer moms or some such nonsense. This evening, I went for a long walk (I got a fitbit and am really enjoying setting fitness goals) - again, something I couldn't do before ("Why would you want to go for a walk without ME?". Like you, I was isolated. I am isolated no longer.

It's sad in a way that we have to feel a sense of relief to do normal things and question whether or not that's normal... .but such is the deck we've been dealt.

Enjoy the relief and the normalcy.

Peace,
The Teacher

[Firebird]

Cerulean Blue - After the initial shock of my uBPDh leaving almost 7 weeks ago, I felt a huge sense of relief to come home knowing that I didn't have to feel worried about how he would be. There had been so much stress and tension over that last month that I had dropped 5 kilos and was having abnormal bleeding. I felt better at work than being home, but it's as if I had this hope that he would snap out of the deteriorated state he had been in for a few months.

I have such mixed emotions. I go from feeling very free, to feeling sad, to feeling thankful that I escaped relatively unscathed, thanks to therapy. I'm going to continue therapy though. Work through "why" I felt such empathy for someone so damaged, and why I stayed when he clearly enjoyed being hateful.
I don't want to kill off my empathy, but I also don't ever want it to be a trap again. I seriously think I stayed because I HATE quitting, but mostly because I felt sad for him. I felt anyone that had the capacity to be so awful had to have serious psychological issues, and I felt that I can endure more than most people are willing to. Just because I can though, shouldn't mean I have to, or that that is what's in MY best interest. I guess in the end, I decided I had to look out for ME. The more I excused due to his mental illness, the more it enabled him to act that way.

I am experiencing these same waves of emotions currently, sadness to feeling free, to also feeling lucky that I'm not a complete wreck. I do get occasional bouts of intense anxiety though. But I have plenty of friends and family around who are supportive because I am able to maintain these kinds of relationships. I also felt sad for him, in that as screwed as things could be I believed that underneath all of that it was coming from this very wounded child. I also felt like I could endure it.

As you said, we shouldn't have to. It's so hard though. I feel so disappointed in him. He also said he doesn't know if he can 'love' and that eventually I would have had enough of it and recently said I'm healthy and I can be with someone who is healthy. I know that he is right to such a large degree, but if he can see that he's not healthy than he could have chosen to get some professional help.

Right now I'm doing NC. We saw each other a week ago when I collected some of my belongings and he broke down crying for the last 25mins or something. I just can't put myself through the hurt any longer.  I say that now and I know it might change, because we were married almost 10 years and I have weak moments.

I hope that I too will get to that place where I don't feel heartsick.

[Notwendy]

CB, keep in mind FOG when it comes to guilt.

It would make sense to feel relief from this emotional stress of living with your H. It would also make sense to have a mixture of feelings about an abusive spouse. Few people are all good or all bad, and he seems to be a mix of them. Yet, I think we can be in a sense of denial about the parts of a person. However, abuse and dysfunction are realities to contend with.

I think this kind of situations keeps us on alert about the other person's feelings and we are in a sort of crisis/survival mode which makes it hard to focus on our feelings. Rather than wonder if it is normal to feel relived, take note of the fact that you do feel relieved.

Our feelings are there to tell us about ourselves. Sometimes they are fleeting, sometimes we should not act on them, but sometimes we know we should act on them. Your relief is telling you something. Also, when living with someone we fear, fear predominates. Once you are safe, you can feel your other feelings. One of them is relief. You may also feel grief and sadness, and perhaps fear- of the unknown- at an ending, even a necessary one. Or you may not feel this at all- and that would be OK. No reason to be guilty for being you.

[byfaith]

Hi CB,

Yes it is normal to feel relieved... .I have followed your situation and I am so glad for you that you are getting yourself out of that mess.
You have dealt with so much abuse and you have tried everything you know to do, and now you are taking care of yourself and seeking a new life.

I was thinking about the different kinds of abuse that we go through. What I go through is more of emotional abuse. What you have gone through is emotional and physical. I deal with more covert emotional abuse. It is harder to detect and sift through, at least for me.

I got home from church yesterday and I came up with a reason to go into work on a Sunday just so I would not have to stay at the house. I had a very pleasant time at work.


BF

[HopefulDad]

When I was undecided, I paid attention to indicators... .feelings, really... .that would cue me in on whether to try to make things work or call it quits.  When relief in being away from my pwBPD became the norm, I realized I knew my decision was made.

And what a great decision it was.

[empath]

The sense of freedom, relief, being able to breathe, to be yourself -- all are totally normal. Along with the guilt for feeling these things and thinking that it 'shouldn't' be this way in a 'normal' marriage. Sometimes, there is a sense of grief, too.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, today I yo yo'ed between relief, and grief. I feel a loss, but I think it's more the feeling of loss for what I'd hoped we'd have, not what we actually did have. I still miss the "fake" version of BPDh I got that first year. I realized now it was all smoke and mirrors, really just a false front, but I really liked that guy!

I guess I just have to be thankful that I'm not super depressed or sad all the time. Don't get me wrong, I have my moments, but how ugly it was never is far from my mind. I can't even romanticize it after the fact. He has told me he'll have good memories of us, but I can't honestly say the same of our actual marriage. So many "memories" were overshadowed by his anger, or rage, or blame. I never was at ease because I knew he could go off at any time. We almost never had a peaceful day. In fact, I can remember the few good days we had, as they were so rare. It all just breaks my heart. In a way, I feel he betrayed me. He certainly failed to protect me from himself or his angry adult girls.

I realized people that are hurting, hurt others, but I also believe in accountability and trying to do better. They all seem mired in dysfunction, and seem quite comfortable there. I worked hard on my codependency while in the relationship, and will continue therapy after. The healthier I got though, the worse BPDh got. I think he felt he was losing control of me.

I'm also wondering if I've heard the last from him? He knows he was getting divorce papers, and I have a feeling he got them today. He's very angry about that. He's angry, and indignant. His pride is hurt, and he'd have much rather have left me then to have me leave him. Goodness knows he threatened until I couldn't take it anymore.

Do you think I'll hear from him again, or will he just move on to a fresh target like he did last time? I'd hope he'd give himself some time, but I know he likely won't. It felt really awful last time we were separated when he slept with someone totally inappropriate just a couple weeks after he left. Of course, he'd been telling me he wanted other women, so I shouldn't have been shocked. I forgave him, and we reconciled, but I don't hold out much hope that he learned a lesson about jumping from one relationship into another.

I wish I'd meant something to him, but my gut tells me I really didn't. Sad.

[PFCI]

I understand your feeling.  4 or so years ago, we moved from our flat (apartment) into our house.  I realise I have no happy memories of living in that flat at all, despite the fact we were living there when we got married, when our kids were born, the first few years of their lives.

I literally wiped most of those 5 years from my memory.  I don't miss that place at all.  Thinking about it just makes me feel bad.  I imagine I'll feel the same when I leave my wife and this house. 

I also wonder if my wife loves/loved me.  If she did/does, how can she act like this to me?

[formflier]

They all seem mired in dysfunction, and seem quite comfortable there. 

I think this is the key judgment that you have made.  From everything I know about your story... .I think this is a reasonable conclusion to come to.

Who knows if you will hear from him again. 

Knowing what you know about him and about you.  What would a healthy message look like that you could send to him that might help clarify the choices you are presenting him with.

Understand that seeing divorce papers could trigger things due to twisted thinking.  It's not your job to untwist it... .but it is your job to communicate in a healthy fashion.  Once it leaves your lips... .it's up to him.

Thoughts?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I have a feeling he has been served divorce papers, but just hasn't said anything. He likes to punish me with silence, and I'm used to that, although I still find it really immature.

He said he wanted a "chance", but has done zero with his "chance". I was actually staying with him, separate bedroom, just for convenience sake, for well over a week. Boy, was that week a reminder of why I'd left. He just falls right back into his comfort zone of rudeness, ignoring me, fawning over my daughter while I get ignored, and being snappy. I know it would just be a matter of time before the rages and anger returned. In fact, he did get angry more than once, he just didn't blow up. I could feel him "stuffing" his emotions though, and I'd be willing to bet that he's having distorted, unfactual, negative feelings towards me.

I think what really got through to me was when my therapist(she was also one of our marriage therapist, so she knew BPDh well) asked me if I was ever going to be able to change BPDh filter or negative view of me. I laughed and said "absolutely not". I've tried, but he just wants to believe negatively of me, no matter what I do.

 In fact, he'll create utter lies to go along with the negative me in his head: I stopped calling his girls' derogatory names(and I only did this to him, never to their faces, and only because these girls have hurt me badly), and I hadn't done that for almost two years, but he says I still have. Now, I absolutely know I have not, but it's like if he says it, he thinks it's factual, or maybe he does know he's lying. Either way, it's just not true, and I worked hard to stop doing that, and got zero credit. In fact, instead of credit or a "thank you, that means a lot to me, as I know they've done things to hurt and exclude you", I got "you still do it", and I'd just think "you are crazy". Why fight with someone that lives in their own reality, and it's not based on reality?

At this point, he knows what I want: anger/rages to stop, I'd like him to actually work his DBT program, stop letting his daughters exclude me while he attends things(at least work on this situation, instead of telling me he's choosing them... .be a MAN), and to actually interact with me without me having to beg. One of my biggest complaints outside of all the BPD/NPD behaviors is the fact that he makes times to do fun things with others, like his friends or his kids, but he won't do the same for me/us. I deserve the same! I'm done being last priority to him.

Not sure how to put all that in a statement that he'd understand. Or maybe he does understand, he just refuses to do it, because so much is about his needing power and control with him. His other big issues is he's always thinking I'm controlling him, which is insane, and NO ONE controls anything he does. Our MC even pointed that out to him. She said "I don't think anyone would really be able to control you, so why are you so on the lookout for that?".

[formflier]

Dear Angry Hubby,

By now you have seen the divorce papers.  I am choosing to live a life free of abuse and rages.  If you are interested in a marriage that is based on mutual respect, compromise and love then please let me know by your actions. 

Sincerely,

Outta here... .

This is probably a good starting point.  Less is more. 

Thoughts?

FF

[HopefulDad]

Don't serve anyone divorce papers as an ultimatum or wake-up call.  Serve them because you're done with the marriage.

[formflier]

Don't serve anyone divorce papers as an ultimatum or wake-up call.  Serve them because you're done with the marriage.

Yep... .don't let them call your bluff... .so don't bluff.

By the same token... .if they are offering and take verifiable steps over a long period of time to offer a different marriage.  Then that is something to consider.

The key is to look at actions... .pay little attention to words.

Although actions and words should pretty much match.

FF

[HopefulDad]

Don't serve anyone divorce papers as an ultimatum or wake-up call.  Serve them because you're done with the marriage.

Yep... .don't let them call your bluff... .so don't bluff.

By the same token... .if they are offering and take verifiable steps over a long period of time to offer a different marriage.  Then that is something to consider.

The underlined is something a pwBPD will have incredible difficulty following through even if they genuinely do mean so.  If you make the filing conditional, the following is a very realistic scenario:

Non: "I'm filing for divorce."

pwBPD: "No!  (tears) I know I have issues.  I want to address them because I don't want to lose you!  I'll seek DBT.  I'll stick with it, I promise!  I just want to get better."

Non: "Okay."

(pwBPD goes to therapy, even DBT.  Things start getting better.  pwBPD starts feeling good about the progress and thinks they are "cured".  pwBPD quits therapy, then starts taking steps backward.  Non pushes to resume therapy.  pwBPD says no more therapy is needed and maybe Non is the one who needs therapy.  Things devolve back to square one.)

Non: "I'm filing for divorce and this time I really mean it!"

Ouch.  Honestly, Non looks like a putz.  And should Non actually give pwBPD another chance after that, Non will really look dumb saying later, "I'm filing for divorce again and this time I really, really mean it!"

This is why I suggest saving divorce filings for when you truly are done with the marriage. 

[formflier]

I totally agree that you should NOT file for divorce unless YOU are ready to walk the road and be divorced.

The primary goal of the filing should be to end the marriage.

If there is a glimmer of "I wish it were different in your heart... "... .I think it is fine to communicate that.  Give them a choice.

If they really start taking action... .then watch and see.  If they really are owning there stuff... .then I would propose as "post-nuptial" as a way to settle the divorce filing and proceed on.

Check in your state about what is legal to put in those, but if it is legal, you should put your expectations and consequences in writing to define a "healthy" relationship.

If a pwBPD tries to claim that "they are cured" but refuses to sign... .then you have your answer.  "Listen" to their actions, not their words.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

 Ceruleanblue has given her husband countless second chances. She has filed for divorce. I don't think she's interested in renegotiating her agreement. She gave him a list of things that he would need to improve upon for her to remain in the marriage. He did NONE of them.

I think her comments above are merely curiosity about his internal process now that he has received the divorce filing.

It's been many years since I divorced my first husband and I still have a morbid curiosity about his life: has he been arrested again for spousal abuse? How did he get his active arrest warrant in my state resolved? Is he working?

There's no way I would ever contact him again, but I'm certainly interested in any news I hear through the grapevine.

[Cat Familiar]

 Also I suspect that Ceruleanblue would really like him to hear her and to be able to share her feelings and perspective on the marriage. I felt the same way with my ex.

No matter how I tried to communicate my side of the story, he always twisted it into being my fault, as pwBPD so skillfully do.

I would rehearse my presentation and even jot down notes, but inevitably I would end up apologizing for my part in our issues and later realize that he accepted absolutely no responsibility for his behavior.

He was so good at blame shifting that it would occur before I realized that I had aired almost none of my concerns.

In sum, I think Ceruleanblue is hoping that there might be a way to communicate about the demise of her marriage with him, yet realizing that is likely to be futile.

[formflier]

 
In sum, I think Ceruleanblue is hoping that there might be a way to communicate about the demise of her marriage with him, yet realizing that is likely to be futile.

This is most likely the case.

Should the opportunity ever come up... .I would hope that CB would have a quick... short answer that puts the ball back in his court.  No lists.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

He was so good at blame shifting that it would occur before I realized that I had aired almost none of my concerns.

In sum, I think Ceruleanblue is hoping that there might be a way to communicate about the demise of her marriage with him, yet realizing that is likely to be futile.

Yes! This is exactly how I feel. I get that he couldn't/wouldn't listen while we were married, but now that I've filed, I'd hoped he could at least hear me out a little. I certainly have listened to his skewed views, and as you stated, BLAME SHIFTING. That's it exactly.

I fully acknowledge that I ticked his girls off five years ago(how pathetic to stay angry and hostile for five years ), but I've apologized profusely to each and every one of them, and in actuality, I hadn't really done anything wrong to begin with. So, I apologized. It got me nowhere and they launched a crusade to get rid of me. They've succeeded. Their Dad is angry, hostile, has mental issues, and they can have him. Like him, they have huge, huge control issues. They want Daddy back, and they don't want to share him with me. Fine.

Even without the step kid dynamics, the biggest reason I left was that BPD/NPDh is cruel, and angry, and blaming. He takes almost zero responsibility for his part. I've made mistakes, but mine were more of the enabling, low boundaries type. I was scared, and I also tried to communicate with him, which is another thing he refuses to do with me. How do you stay married to someone who says in marriage therapy "We did all the talking and getting to know while we were dating, so why do we need to talk now?". He said this in all seriousness.

I know exactly what I need to work on, and am continuing therapy. What's sad, is that BPDh has zero chance of a happy life because he's in complete denial. If he continues to just blame me, or his ex, or his boss, how can his life ever be happy? It won't be, but that will no longer be MY problem.

I guess my needing him to hear me, is just not going to happen. I guess I have to learn to accept that. I accept that I played a part, but I tried to fix MY part, and none of them, BPDh nor his kids will do their part. To me, that means they are getting something out of staying stuck in their anger and blame, and unhappiness. Sad.

[formflier]

OK... .my opinion is that if "your just want him to hear you" but that at this point there is NOTHING he could do or change to repair the relationship, I don't think it wise to try to talk to him about it.

Now... .if you said to him... .I would like you to listen and reflect back to my what I believe went wrong and he agrees to it... .perhaps.

But what if he has "insight" and says that he never knew that part before and is ready to address it.  You say no... .he now blames you for the end of relationship.  Poof... .it's not his fault... .it's yours.  You would likely be more frustrated than before.

However... .if you give him broad principles to address... .he agrees... .you go on living your life and periodically checking in to see progress, there is a slim chance for him to take ownership and it is a more honest point of view (IMO) for you to take.

Big picture about guys and girls:  (Oh dear... .FF is going to say something sexist... .)   

Actually it's a Paul Harvey quote that I believe to be true.  Most girls want "closure" most guys don't do closure.  Add in BPDish stuff and I don't think it wise to chase after "closure".

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, and yeah, no more lists for him. Why would I? He's always actually known what I wanted and needed because I've calmly told him.

I don't think I'll get closure, and I don't think closure is a big deal to me in regards to this. It's more about finally being understood, whether he agrees or not. I've always listened to him, even if I don't agree. I think it boils down to respect, but that's an aspect of our marriage that has been solely lacking on his part, and a huge part of why I'm leaving. I respect myself, and he seemingly goes out of his way to disrespect me.

[Notwendy]

CB, unfortunately - we can not make anyone understand us. They have to choose to understand us. How many times have you tried to have your H understand you? Has it worked?

Closure, understanding, is nice, but sometimes the closure we have is our own- the one we have when we have decided the direction we wish to take.

[formflier]

The other big question to ask, is what is different now that would lead you to believe that your husband would understand you now?

If the answer is that I filed for divorce, I wouldn't put much stock in that.

If he comes to you and wants to talk, and you ask him if you can share your thoughts and have him reflect those thoughts back... .and he agrees... .and then follows through.  Then something would seem to have changed.

In my example... .it is the follow through that is most important.   If he agrees... .and then interrupts you... .justifies himself... .etc etc.  Stop talking and save your breath.

FF

[Notwendy]

CB, what makes you think that now that you have filed, your H will be able to understand you?

If you filed with any hope/intent to act on him- make him see the light, then this is something to examine carefully- because acting, with intent to change someone- is a form of being co-dependent.

We ( I include myself in this) do this in many ways- we appease - so keep someone calmer. We hide our truth- so as not to upset someone. We in a sense- abandon our own feelings - wishes- to act in hopes/attempt to make someone else feel or do something.

You do know that these kinds of actions ( filing for divorce, leaving,) can trigger his attempts to smooth things over- and he has some relationship tools to do this, but it takes time and work to learn new ones. He can turn on the charm - promise to be good. I think you have told him many times what he need to do to achieve that.

If he changes, it has to be his choice. But you know that real change takes work and time and so far, is there any evidence he has done that?  

[Cat Familiar]

I think CB is done, done, done. She has tried so hard to do everything in her power to keep this marriage afloat and nothing has worked. She's thrown in the towel and would merely like a little respect and understanding of her position.

I suspect she realizes that this will never occur because in order for him to truly hear her, he'd have to admit responsibility, which is unlikely to ever happen.

Yes, he could try to be the "nice guy" but as she has recently seen, he can't even hold that together for more than a day.

CB has seen the big picture, she's made her decision, but she has spent five years with this guy and holds onto the slim chance that he might actually be interested in understanding what went wrong from her perspective.

Doubtful that would ever happen and perhaps she's now wondering if the stories he told her about his first marriage might be full of omissions and exaggerations too.

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, I've known for some time "why" his ex likely stabbed him, and did all that crazy stuff she did. Now, I DO NOT ever think physical violence is okay, but I'd be willing to bet he was verbally or emotionally cruel to her at times, and that's what prompted her response. Now, I won't go there, but she had a traumatic childhood(if I believe what I've heard), so she might not have been the most stable anyway, then add BPDh to the equation.

It explains why his family all says he treated his ex better than he did me: He did have some fear of her becoming violent, and he knew that I would not, and he knew I could control my temper. What actually made him super angry was if I tried to talk, or calmly discuss things. He was unable or unwilling to do that. His emotional regulation was too poor, or his self soothing was too poor to allow him to do that. I actually think he COULD have done way better, he had been taught the "tools" in anger management and therapy(DBT), but he just didn't feel the need or desire to behave in a better way. It's almost like he got off, or felt powerful when he got angry.

He has some moments of realizing his anger and threats have cost him, but those moments are short lived.

I would like a small measure of him "understanding", but as Cat Familiar stated, I know that takes some insight he's likely not going to want to have. He's a huge blamer, and doesn't like to look at any contributions he's made. I know the part I played, am working on it in therapy(codependence to some degree, and wanting peace at too high a price to myself, and my stubborness to not "give up".

I see that he did the same exact thing in two marriages, only this time to a greater degree, and he somehow expected different results? You can't threaten, emotionally abuse, neglect, punish, and blame someone for years, and just have them like it. The threats go to me, and I'd bet at some point he told his ex to "just find someone else" too, and unlike me, she did! Yeah, cheating is not right, and I didn't make the same choice, but he said they same thing to ME, then would have felt awful if I had... .

I know I did the only thing I could do at the time. I left, and filed. He's wanting me back, and I have not halted the divorce. Why would I? I'm not seeing any real change... .