What triat/traits do you find the most hurtful?

[Ceruleanblue]

I've been doing a lot of reflecting lately, and it led me to thinking of exactly which traits I hate the most, and which ones I wish boundaries had been more effective shielding me from(if that's really a possibility).

For me, the list is:

Head games(this encompasses quite a lot, I realize)

Push/Pull

Silent Treatment as punishment

Threats

Lying

Being blamed, and the complete negativity he has towards me

The hardest part to accept is that while he's "unhappy", he makes no real effort the improve his mindset, or leave coping skills. His DBT therapy is now being used as a complaining session about me, I'm sure, and he's spewing his lies there, I'm sure. I hope his therapist is wise enough to catch on, but he's fooled more than one therapist. Plus, parts of it will be true: I AM quite justifiably hurt, and angry at him. I am not disrespectful though, or abusive, but seen through his negative filter, of course he'll present it that way. To him, it IS that way.

What's scary is that I've sort of learned how to "think like him". I think it's skewed, and not reality based, but I can almost always predict how he'll interpret something about me, or skew even kind things I do. So something neutral or negative, of course he's going to not see the "why". Ugly divorces usually happen, I feel, because at least one person was abusive, or did something really awful(like cheating). Amicable divorces probably don't happen often when you are dealing with a PD.

If I had to state my all time trait I hate the most, it would probably be how he blows hot and cold(push/pull, or I hate you, don't leave me), and I never knew which day that would be. He never was fully committed to our marriage. He seemed to want me most when I'd resolved to leave, or he felt I was wanting better treatment. When I felt off balance or scared(due to his constant threats), he'd then withdraw. It's like he enjoyed torturing me. He'd make sure I got a sleepless, worry filled night, then he'd pop a couple sleeping pills(he's now addicted to them), and he'd sleep like the dead.

Sorry for the rambling thoughts. Please share yours.

 

[byfaith]

The most damaging trait is that she will not accept any responsibilty outwardly to the demise of our relationship. Its possible down inside she knows what she is doing, she just does not have the will to change. I feel for her.

The most hurtful thing is when she mocks me or uses my foo issues ive shared with her against me.

Last night she said " all the stuff your mom said about you was right"

I was shutting down last night, i didnt know what to say.

The sad part of all this is that i know that our marriage is basically over but i have this sadness for her and i want to remain her friend somehow. I still love her. is there a sick part of me that likes the dysfucntion?

[Firebird]

The black and white thinking

Telling me how I think and feel

Lying

Push/pull

Lack of empathy

That whenever things were worse for him, he acted like everything was bad (me, our marriage) --- I'm no good so nothing is good

[byfaith]

Ditto on

Black and white thinking

Telling me how i think and feel ( i know whats in your heart)

Lack of empathy ( extremley rare)

[Ceruleanblue]

The sad part of all this is that i know that our marriage is basically over but i have this sadness for her and i want to remain her friend somehow. I still love her. is there a sick part of me that likes the dysfucntion?

Boy, I can relate to that. I think I stayed in large part because I hate what feels like giving up, or defeat, but also, because I felt something had to be seriously wrong with him for him to behave and think as he does. Healthy, good people don't enjoy hurting others. I'm not sure if this is truly a BPD trait, but it's a trait that BPDh has. I think it seems like more of a sociopath type trait, actually. When I started realizing that he took perverse pleasure in hurting me, and dominating me sexually, and emotionally, I realized I couldn't do this long term.

I see an endless stream of broken relationships for him. It's been his pattern: unhealthy interpersonal relationships. Why would it change?

[Cat Familiar]

Black and white thinking.

Telling me what I think and how I feel.

Alcohol abuse--it's better now, but at one point, this was the dominating problem.

My previous BPD husband, who was verbally and physically abusive, also used FOO stuff against me and said things like, "You're just like your mother." I don't know which was worse: being likened to my BPD mother or using confidences I had shared with him as ammunition against me. Also he was a serial cheater.

Comparing husbands #1 and #2, I certainly am dealing with BPD-lite now. 

[Cat Familiar]

I see an endless stream of broken relationships for him. It's been his pattern: unhealthy interpersonal relationships. Why would it change?

I think it's because they always blame somebody else for their problems.

[empath]

Since I have a pretty good FOO, my h tells me that I'm like his dad who was abusive and neglectful.

The most hurtful one for me was telling me how angry I was all the time, coupled with the denying and minimizing what I tell him I'm feeling or thinking or doing.

Lack of responsibility -- being the victim of all these bad things that happen

Push/ Pull -- or mixed messages as his P calls it

[Ceruleanblue]

Another trait I just remembered, and I'm not even sure what to call it:

More times than I could count, and nearly every time(no exaggeration) that I'd do something I thought of as "nice" or going above and beyond, he'd twist it into being the exact opposite. The last one that happened was me suggesting he invite his son or daughter over for pizza, I'd buy(he'd cut me off financially), and because I took my son to lunch that day, he saw the pizza as "not as good". Nevermind, that the pizza would have been more costly, and his son ended up cancelling, but I still bough and brought dinner home to BPDh.

I absolutely hated the way kindness and effort on MY part ended up having the exact opposite result it should have. It was like anything I did was run through what I called the "crap filter" in BPDh's mind, and good or bad, it would come out the same: he'd find a way to put an ugly slant on it, and argue if I tried to tell him buying pizza is a NICE thing. And in reverse, anything he'd do for me or my kids, I'd end up raving about to him, again with zero effect. I wanted him to feel appreciated, but he never seemed to believe my appreciation either.

I guess this could all be viewed as negativity? A skewed, negative filter? Whatever it was, I came to really hate it. Who wants to do nice things knowing no matter how nice, or good your intent is, it will be denigrated, and told it was the complete opposite?

[prettyflowers]

Push/pull is the most hurtful for me, particularly when the push is of the cold, detached variety. It is profoundly disorienting when my BPDgf flips a switch from intimacy to withdrawal of affection. It's as if another persona goes up and I'm expected to play a polite, easygoing role while the storm brews and either passes or spirals into her full-on "I can't do this anymore" dysregulation. I think this particular relational trait knocks me off center because I experience the intermittent distancing behaviors as abandonment.

[PFCI]

Ｉｔ’ｓ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｗｉｔｃｈ　between being nice and friendly to being extremely unpleasant.

I guess this is push/pull?  I hate the nice times even more that the bad times sometimes.  It's so false, and messes with my head. 

That and the physical violence.

[empath]

Thought of another one: after years of telling him something, he realized what I said then got upset with me because I didn't tell him before. Called it blindsiding him... .  He says that's why he can't trust me... .

[Oncebitten]

My list is fairly short, the outbursts the name calling I can handle but there are a couple things that always get to me


                  The push/pull... .it just leaves your emotions in complete disarray

                  The silent treatment, its intentionally hurtful or at least always feels that way to me.

[Cat Familiar]

One of the traits that gets to me is the lack of empathy at times.

He will go out of his way to try and impress some acquaintance by how understanding and sympathetic he is to their needs. And at the same time be totally oblivious to mine.

I can recall times when I've completely unloaded the truck by myself after a bi-monthly shopping run at Costco while he sat and watched sports on TV. And then later he told me how he did something really nice for some young mother who works at the local sandwich shop.

Hmmm... .it's always some woman he's trying to impress with his generosity.

I don't think there's anything inappropriate going on--it's just that he really seeks women's approval. Just not mine. 

[Oncebitten]

Lack of empathy for your feelings... .yet you can't show them enough.  its more than a little hypocritical.  I guess thats what really hurts. You are expected to pour your heart out and feel for them, but when you need them to feel for you its an attack on them and it suddenly becomes about how they feel.

[Cat Familiar]

Lack of empathy for your feelings... .yet you can't show them enough.  its more than a little hypocritical.  I guess thats what really hurts. You are expected to pour your heart out and feel for them, but when you need them to feel for you its an attack on them and it suddenly becomes about how they feel.

Yes! Exactly!

Sometimes I have to laugh internally at the absurdity of it all. He wants me to show my feelings more (and not be "robot woman" as he's called me). Yet, when I do, then he feels like I'm attacking him. 

[HopefulDad]

I could list so many that it's like a photo finish on which one wins, but over time I learned how to deal with all of the traits... .in private.  What I couldn't get over was how I was belittled in front of our children.  I couldn't get over the midnight screamfests by her as I practically pleaded with her to calm down on behalf of our kids who ended up being awaken.  How my parental authority was constantly undermined.  How my kids were possibly learning that this was par for the course in marriage.  Instead of a marital issue, the BPD became a family issue.

I'm a huge proponent of "divorcing for the kids"

[empath]

Empathy is really weird in BPD... . 

I was talking with my husband and expressing empathy for his situation, but he interpreted it as 'criticism' - because he was vulnerable and someone was preying on that vulnerability.

Then later, I was asking about something, and he was confused about how I didn't feel hurt by something that another person was doing. I said I didn't take their actions personally. He didn't understand that - and probably thought that I was just not expressing my feelings.

[Cat Familiar]

I was talking with my husband and expressing empathy for his situation, but he interpreted it as 'criticism'... .Then later, I was asking about something, and he was confused about how I didn't feel hurt by something that another person was doing. I said I didn't take their actions personally. He didn't understand that - and probably thought that I was just not expressing my feelings.

You express this so well, Empath. There have been so many times my head has just spun, thinking I was being so warm and supportive of my husband, and he thought I was criticizing him.    Before I learned about BPD, that sort of response from him became a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

And he just doesn't get when I'm not "righteously outraged" by something somebody did. He thinks I've shut down emotionally, when really I don't see any purpose for getting upset because it wouldn't accomplish anything.

[BowlOfPetunias]

Hypocrisy.

This is not as bad as it used to be, but in the past she would come down on me like a ton of bricks (and make me feel like I was being accused of child abuse) anytime I raised my voice when disciplining the kids.  It would be alright when she routinely flew off the handle at the kids, however--unless she got mad enough to hit them, in which case she would always say she was sorry and that it would "never happen again." 

She would chew me out, for example, whenever I raised my voice while repeating myself in response to one of our kids zoning me out.  This would even happen when it was a situation in which the kids needed to change their behavior right away.  (Rinsing when brushing teeth BEFORE swallowing the toothpaste.  Getting out of the way of moving traffic before being hit by a car.  Not pulling a can out from the bottom of a stacked display so that it did not fall and possibly injure them.)  She said it was because the kids had "processing issues" and I needed to be more patient.  Oddly enough, "processing issues" never came up when she exploded at the kids for ignoring her.

She would also come down on me like a ton of bricks if I didn't "back her up" by raising my voice at the kids, so no-win situations are also high on the hurtful list.  Note that I would not back her up precisely when she had gone overboard in a rage because I did not want to add to that.

[empath]

More weirdness: one of my husband's work projects was to do a presentation on empathy. I was explaining that empathy is understanding how another person feels within themselves. He couldn't wrap his head around that and kept thinking that it is 'how I would feel in their situation'. I think he ended up changing the title of the presentation.

[Firebird]

I was talking with my husband and expressing empathy for his situation, but he interpreted it as 'criticism'... .

You express this so well, Empath. There have been so many times my head has just spun, thinking I was being so warm and supportive of my husband, and he thought I was criticizing him.   

This is so familiar. So often it was the case that my exBPDh would think I had some other motive than caring when showing empathy. He would be suspicious of it, cold and rejecting if I ever asked if he was okay.

[Meadowslark]

Most hurtful? The lies, definitely. The smear campaign was something Stephen King could have written himself with how horrible and outlandish a lot of the lies were. What was even crazier was that people believed them, believed what she was saying about Mom and about me, people they'd known for years. How convincing and conniving she is, without a second thought.

Most damaging? The threats.

• "If you do X, I'll kill myself."
• "If you say Y, I'll cut myself and post it online and say you did it."
• "I'll just go get a gun and shoot myself if you don't agree with me!"
• "You got me the wrong frozen dinner so I'll just go tell everyone how you make me starve!"
• ":)on't ask me for rent money. If you do, I'll tell everybody I know that you beat me and extort me for money!"
• "If you don't give me money then I'll stab you."
• "If you don't take me with you then I'll destroy your things."

It's just... .utter crazymaking.

[Cat Familiar]

Another pattern that is hard to live with is creating conflict where it's completely unnecessary (IMO). My husband can get in a bad mood if the usually friendly checker at the grocery store is less than sociable to him. Lots of these "slights" have occurred in my presence and I didn't at all notice them. I used to try and talk to him and see if I could get him to imagine someone else's experience--definitely not a good strategy for a pwBPD because soon I'd be in the line of fire.

"You're on their side!" he'd yell. I'd be thinking What the heck? I might have said that the person looked tired or maybe they were worried about their kid or had a disagreement with their boss. Then suddenly I was the enemy. 

I've learned from experience and nowadays I don't feed into his melodrama.

[Kimtexas43]

The constant "No one respects me". I think his definition of respect is "empathy". He doesn't use the term respect in the proper circumstance to a situation. I think he feels "disrespected" when no one feels the same as him about a situation.

Wouldn't you think that no one wants to be around you or invite you to any family functions that maybe it's because of the way you act and treat people? The never ending "So and so doesn't have anything to say to me" or "So and so doesn't want anything to do with me". Isn't that a clue that maybe it's not them - it's you, dude!  At some point you'd think they would click and realize all their crappy treatment of others pushes everyone away. Life has to be very lonely for the people who suffer with BPD.

[Pina colada]

He hides our relationship.  I feel like the mistress to divorced man.  Can't meets kids, most friends, etc... .

[BowlOfPetunias]

He hides our relationship.  I feel like the mistress to divorced man.  Can't meets kids, most friends, etc... .

This actually sounds a lot like how a closet case treats his gay lover.

[Wrongturn1]

He wants me to show my feelings more (and not be "robot woman" as he's called me). Yet, when I do, then he feels like I'm attacking him. 

Yes, exactly this!  For me, it's the following, in no particular order:

*  The "catch 22" situations, where, for example 1) she claims to always want to know what's on my mind (says she feels like she doesn't know me anymore), then if I actually tell her what I'm thinking, she invents a reason to be offended by what I've said and escalates the situation to a World War 3-type conflict; 2) when I'm not physically affectionate towards her, she complains that I'm acting like just a platonic roommate, then if I have a day where I do treat her affectionately, she blows up on me, saying I have expectations of sex for later that are putting a lot of pressure on her and that all I care about is sex.

*  Usually blaming me for all of her negative self image and insecurity, which clearly existed long before I ever knew her - way back to her early childhood based on the history she has presented.  She says it's all my fault because she found me looking at a PG-13 rated photo of a woman online over a decade ago.  That was something I apologized for, repented of, stopped doing, and changed my mindset about; yet she brings this up multiple times per year and blames me for wrecking her entire self image and making her feel perpetually insecure.

*  Refusing to take any actions to improve her problem areas.  In a recent rare moment of clarity, she told me that she is responsible for 90% of the problems in our relationship... .yet she is not willing to change any of her behaviors or seek any treatment.  It's extraordinarily frustrating for me to see her suffering and to see the havoc she wreaks in our relationship and family - but she refuses to do anything about it.

I could go on but have to get back to work.  Thanks for letting me vent!

[Pina colada]

This actually sounds a lot like how a closet case treats his gay lover.
[/quote]

I never thought of this... .

[BowlOfPetunias]

I don't know which was worse: being likened to my BPD mother or using confidences I had shared with him as ammunition against me.

One of the problems that I have had with marriage counseling is that my wife would use things that I discussed--in an effort to acknowledge my own difficulties and work on growing to improve the marriage--against me to deflect responsibility.  "You've just got a chip on your shoulder because of everything the bullies did in school and how your family treated you.  And you take it out on me!  It's not fair!"

She would also use my father's problems against me.  My opposition to spending thousand of dollars we don't have on a trip to Disney World made me a "coward like [my] father."  I was told I shouldn't "live my life in fear of everything"--even though I have done things like carrying out dissertation research on sensitive issues in a very dangerous country.

My father had extreme OCD and was afraid of driving.  There was a period when I was a teenager when he wouldn't leave his bedroom for several weeks.  I have had some issues with OCD, but I have largely managed their impact on me.  (I prefer not to drive over high bridges, for example, but I won't decide not to go somewhere because it requires driving over a suspension bridge.)

One of the worst things about BPDs is that they are great at figuring out a person's weak spots and using them to cause extreme pain when they get into a rage.