What's my next step ? Advice needed

[Lollypop]

Hi there

Here's the background.

Returned BPDs25 mid Dec 15. We've been working hard on improving communication and relationships. Slowly we have seen improvements. Great family holiday drug free (?). Bpds have successfully saved £1k towards buying a vehicle. Relationship with gf is tense as she's needy and insecure. Daily weed smoker to "self-medicate".  Previous drug use prescribed and non-prescription drugs with preference for codeine. Doesn't drink alcohol. He internalises and doesn't rage. He  works casually and is managing a small direct debit and his weekly rent.

I've noticed he dipped after getting back from holiday 5 weeks ago. Understandable. He set himself quite a few short term goals and has achieved two of them. Quite a lot of arguments with gf and BPDs has spent a lot of time away from the house over the last couple of weeks. He started to come back more the middle of last week.

He's having a bad day. He tried "cleaning" his room and getting himself together yesterday. He told his gf that he needed time in his own and he spent a nice afternoon just chilling out, watching to and eating. He recognises that he's struggling to deal with himself and can't carry her and deal with her own issues. I just listened without making a comment.

I decided to clean his room. It's particularly bad.

I've found empty nurofen packets and codeine packet. This makes me extremely sad. There were only three though.

I've also found a lot of empty diazepam strips. His gf is on anti depressants but this is only recently so I don't think they are hers.  I don't know what she's taking.

There are also small electronic scales suggesting dealing.

Clearly he's been struggling at some point. The last time I went into his room to tidy up (I stopped when his gf came on the scene) was 7 months ago. So I don't know if these are recently taken.

I'm feeling sad but very level headed. I need to get my next step right.

So I feel I should face this problem head on but am conscious he's struggling to deal with whatever other problems are going on in his head.

This is what I want to do.

Family talk and tell him that he now needs to get his mental health assessment as a condition of living at home. We want to support him in his endeavours to get himself well - but is he ready? Obviously not because he has not sought medical help but has continued with his old behaviours. Ironically he got his gf to go and get help and a mental health assessment (he diagnoses everybody).

He's lied about the tablets as he told me he doesn't do that stuff any more. I don't think he's cutting.

Do I show him the empty packets I found?

Do I ask why and when?

He's obviously going to be anxious that I've been in his room.

Any conversation I have has to be short and unemotional.

I feel strong. I know if he moves out of the house he's headed for another disaster. He's made such progress in learning finance skills but he's not ready to go it alone. I was hoping he'd seek treatment this year left unpressured by us to do so. I hope he'd move out next year.

Advice please. Today if possible - he's home in 6 hours!

Thank you


Ps. Bpds25 opened up a couple of days ago to share his view on astral planes. This life we are currently living isn't real. He believes in second lives.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Bit of an update.

Had a brief conversation in the car with BPDs25.

I told him that I didn't think he was coping too well and he agreed. I then said I think it would really help to go for the mental health assessment and he said "I think I'm going to have to." I said good and hoped he'd start doing something to support himself.

He says he's got money saved but he can't remember how much. I don't think it's avoidance but more that he's stressed.

I got a big hug for cleaning his room and a lovely thank you.

Time will tell over the next few weeks if he gets a car and IF he makes an appointment.

Thanks for reading.

[Bright Day Mom]

Lollypop, it sounds like your next step went well. It is tremendous that he sees he isn't getting on too well.  Fingers crossed he makes an appt for assessment.

[Lollypop]

Thanks brightdaymom

I really don't want to force him into treatment. It's vital for him to give it 100 percent and I know it's best he comes to the decision himself. Still a little nudge along is good.

L

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollypop

It's a such shock as you say when they take a step back, dip - my daughter did too after returning from holiday July, she is doing well now.

I understand how you feel, it's disappointing and scary (you have told me that many times when I have been struggling), however you've brought it back quickly through a short conversation to the CENTRE - that is where we and they need to be, to get going again on that good path you have been treading for long LP. I can see your son appreciates the path you have chosen and continue on, it's a firm and loving steer and he trusts you so don't be frightened to take the lead, have confidence, breath - remember those days back when we talked about the fear of the black bedroom moods, how far we have come   

Have you considered recalling, validating your son's conversation in the car, that he agreed he was not coping too well... .and that he thinks he is going to have to have treatment, perhaps an opportunity for him to open up again at his will what is going on and think, talk about treatment, his fears, accept and know you are walking with him, always. For me it was not about forcing into treatment, it was validating and providing gentle support and love at that opportune moment in time. 

All our children/adult children have different stresses, but one that sticks in my mind is the pressure of them wanting so much to be independent adults while living the challenge of mental health issues and what that means for them. I'm kind of where you are LP and many here, balancing their ability to work/education and helping them towards treatment/and when they are in treatment. I myself have found both are incredibly important to promote equally, care about equally, be loving about equally.  If your son agreed to treatment, how would his present work life balance change, can you help him think this through so he feels this is an option he can work with? 

My daughter's treatment schedule is:
Monday pm DBT
Tuesday am Therapy
Friday morning alcohol therapy (recently lapsed this , don't ask LP, all seems ok, to be addressed, got my eye on it)

That is basically 1.5 days out of a working week and she feels pressure, I often share with her how well she is doing in both treatment and work, work comes second in my mind though I'm pleased as punch she is able to work, some.
What's your view now on needy GF, whatever you found in the bedroom. Not on - in your home?

BW WDx 
Guess astral plane projection come good through good therapy
Edit: realistically as DD has started DBT this June, I'm looking towards exploring a 5 year forward plan for full independence once recovered. Health, wealth and happiness.

[Lollypop]

Hi Lollypop

continue on, it's a firm and loving steer and he trusts you so don't be frightened to take the lead, have confidence, breath - remember those days back when we talked about the fear of the black bedroom moods, how far we have come 

... what is going on and think, talk about treatment, his fears, accept and know you are walking with him, always. For me it was not about forcing into treatment, it was validating and providing gentle support and love at that opportune moment in time. 

All our children/adult children have different stresses, but one that sticks in my mind is the pressure of them wanting so much to be independent adults... .

What's your view now on needy GF, whatever you found in the bedroom. Not on - in your home?

Hi WD

Thanks so much giving such a detailed reply. You've given me much to ponder on.

My immediate thoughts about the above are:

I will push forward with more confidence!

Bpds25 has no respect for the NHS and its mental health treatment. He did attend drugs counselling for about 6 months but his relationship broke down, he felt very abandoned by somebody he thought he trusted.  Bpds became addicted to the subutex they'd prescribed and he felt very unhappy. Whenever he's reached out to the GP or hospital he was always given a leaflet and website.  Finally in January he got a direct referral from A&E but he kept missing his appointments.  His contradictory and irrational with his views. I have challenged him on more than one occasion when the opportunity was right. There is a firm theme of mine (which I've said in front of his girlfriend) - all you have to do is pick the phone up and make a face to face appointment, your issues and problems won't go away on their own. Bpds reacts strongly and negatively to rules and deadlines and so, I feel that if we were to insist on treatment as a requirement to live at home it would go horribly wrong. It feels wrong.  What would feel right, is for him to make the appointment and go along as a first baby step.

My BPDS25 does not want to live independently.  Again, his previous experiences have a direct impact on his thought processes.  Three times away from home he's got into a very bad way, we've always saved him.  This is another firm theme of mine when I talk about getting him in the longer term to live on his own.  I've talked to both of my sons about our retirement plans so they both understand that we love them but have our own live and plans. 

GF is going to Uni next September and has told me that my BPDS plans to move with her.  She stressed "you know, if he feels that we're going somewhere, cos it'd be a massive investment for him".  I politely pointed out that it works both ways and that she also has a say too.  She's like a tiny bird and looks to him for everything, she's moody and gets upset over the tiniest things like not texting back immediately etc. They have some terrible rows.  I'm not sure he's completely open with her about his recent pill popping.

BPDS has asked me not to talk about Uni to the GF in his presence as he finds it too difficult to cope with.

I'm convinced the diazapam belong to BPDS.  GF doesn't smoke weed.  The packets were in the place he normally kept his empty pill packets so I don't think theyre the GF's.

Sorry for this detailed reply.

So, here I am centred.

After getting back from holiday I told BPDS that he had to get himself a car.  I've been driving him to and from work for over 6 months and it was time he got his own vehicle.  He saved up £750 and was really excited and started looking on autotrader.  Of course, he found it more difficult than he thought - particularly, given his budget.  He became overwhelmed and confused, he'd asked his Dad for help and he gave him some pointers but that made him realise that he could be buying some trouble if he wasn't careful. The pressure was building.  Finally, he decided he needed to save up more money and change his vehicle type to something he could use in work.  He's been working very hard and saving (apparently... .) but he feels under pressure.  I think this is one of the reasons he's been popping pills. Of course, I don't know if this is true as the packets could be months old.

I feel determined to see this through as he needs a car.  I can't do this forever and, quite honestly, I'm tired of getting up at 6.30am.  Trying to balance a requirement with the capability is hard.  I see it as a process - buying a car is scary for everybody and a big learning experience. He's struggling balancing his own need, my need and his limitations.

Thanks for reading.

You're very wise WD and very kind.  Thank you for your guidance and experience.  It really helps me.

Hugs

L

[Lollypop]

Hi

Update. I did a re-do and re-validation.

Bpds memory wasn't correct and he'd confused what the psychologist had said to him in January.

I've reminded him of what was suggested. Referrals was made, they sent him a letter and all he has to do is call and ask for a face to face appointment.

Bpds said he feels he won't do the "full course" in his life, that he won't make it as he knows he can't do another 50 years of feeling like this.

I've told him it doesn't have to be this way, he doesn't have to feel this way and he said "that's the point, I do. I have borderline and scientifically this is how I am".  I told him that wasn't true and that I'm in touch with other families in the uk that are getting well, that there's reason to be optimistic and with commitment to change and learning he doesn't have to feel this way.

I suggested he could just call, make an appointment and he may have to wait a couple of months. There's no harm done. That I understand there's a balance of fear to overcome by making the appointment, seeing someone and it maybe not working out but it's important to at least try. It's all a process. I told him if he has a problem in getting an appointment then tell me and I can support him in resolving the problem.

That's it. Fingers crossed.

WD:
I've been so very busy settling my youngest into his GCSE year (alls going very well and he's back doing sport and is happy). Also, my first day today on my degree course and I've a cabin as a studio space which is very exciting. I've done my very best with my BPDs and will continue as you've encouraged me to do.

I'm sorry your daughter has relapsed along her way. It may be a lifelong battle for her (alcohol) but I will say my neice overcame her addiction when her life really started to turn around, living independently etc.  BPD, addictions combined make everything so much harder.  Her schedule does sound stressful but hopefully it'll get easier soon for her.  How long has she been going now?

What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. This goes for them and us.  You're approach has been very inspirational and I won't give up on him. Thanks for you're kindness and friendship.

Now to my course, yikes!

Hugs
L

[Yepanotherone]

Hi there LP , just wanted to write a quick note to say I'm so sorry for what's going on right now but it sounds like you are handling it beautifully x

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

Nice re-do, re-validation LP! Your son says he can't do another 50 years feeling like this, sounds like what my daughter said to me last year, during her drunken, self harming crisis's, 'I can't live feeling like this' and I said exactly what you have, ... .it does not have to be this way... .

It is hard when combined with addiction I'm sorry your son had a bad experience being let down through the drug counselling, experience with GP ... .Can he see, acknowledge how far he has succeeded which if I recall correctly he has (apart from weed and suspect diazepam). My daughter responds well to regular re-re-re-validation, seems easy for her to forget/recognise her progress... .feels like she can't see the wood for the trees sometimes.  Have you asked your son if he is pill popping, if it is a one off? There is much happening for your son as you describe - feeling pressure, the journey to owning own wheels... .GF's expectations ... .plans... .

Marvellous news your youngest is back on the sports field and happy - the family holiday sounds like just what he needed and came at the right time. As has the beginning of your degree, may you gain much joy and peace - I've still got cabin envy by the way 

Thank you LP I'm very touched and moved by your kind appreciation, friendship and support as we all walk along and learn from each other. 

Daughter started DBT end of May, nearly four months in already, it's been hard to gain much information recently how it's going apart from ok - though she diligently attends every week. There was some confusion over holiday dates of the alcohol counsellor - daughter received a discharge letter for non attendance when she believed the counsellor was on holiday, however she has not followed up - feels let down - sound familiar? ... .I've been up north for the last week so that's a conversation for the weekend.  She is progressing - certainly not in the dire state she was in at times last year and more latterly February - so that's 7 months progress on that front I sometimes feel like I'm re-grouping to ensure we are still on the same page and going in the same direction - forwards!

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

I can really relate to the challenges of a structured programme. It takes an enormous effort to stay on track, to "get it", to not beat yourself up when you don't "get it" and then remain trusting in the process. It's not easy when you start to question your own progress or compare yourself to others  and that's when I run for support.  Impatience is a buggy too.  I've learnt all of this in college, now on my degree. Learning (including BPD reading and this forum) can be exhausting and I strive for balance in me.

Four months in, I guess you're daughter is now settling into the routine and I'm sure she has a range of feelings about her challenges each session. There are hiccups along the way and I'm sure with time and the progress it brings will also bring you the 100 percent confidence that, yes - you are on the same page. I totally understand this feeling as their actions don't always match the intention or desire.

You'd love my studio! I bought a very comfy old oak chair so I've somewhere to hole up if I need to. With all my bits  and pieces on the walls and a few shelves it's just a lovely atmosphere. Everybody likes it - apart from my next door neighbour who sadly clearly doesn't. Ho hum.

It's a glorious day so big deep breaths. Enjoy your trip back south and weekend.

L

[wendydarling]

Thx LP, that's really helpful of you

I can really relate to the challenges of a structured programme. It takes an enormous effort to stay on track, to "get it", to not beat yourself up when you don't "get it" and then remain trusting in the process. It's not easy when you start to question your own progress or compare yourself to others  and that's when I run for support.  Impatience is a buggy too.  I've learnt all of this in college, now on my degree. Learning (including BPD reading and this forum) can be exhausting and I strive for balance in me.  Four months in, I guess you're daughter is now settling into the routine and I'm sure she has a range of feelings about her challenges each session. There are hiccups along the way and I'm sure with time and the progress it brings will also bring you the 100 percent confidence that, yes - you are on the same page.

We sat and chatted this pm for 1.5 hours and she spoke exactly as you have above, very calm, positive and confidently. Loves her therapist, has found it hard the skills share leaders have turned over regularly - maternity and moving on - it's ok now, she has worked so much through for herself, now working through treatment completes in March and what that means for her - scary/ not scary.  No depression since back on anti-depressants she was previously on.  It is concerning when they do not share for a period of time, and then whoosh they do and have taken amazing strides forwards or still working it out like your boy.

Loving your cabin, hole - you so deserve it LP.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders