Did I self sabatage the marriage?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

She hold on to the past (almost exclusively the negative past) for dear life as if it is the force that keeps her alive.

My Ex, and many described here in peer support, developed a pattern as her disorderedness increasingly transformed her over the years to where she never 'remembered' her poor actions and never had to apologize for them and yet my actions were always brought up over and over no matter how many times I apologized.  Her rules for her were different from her rules for me.

The constant that has never changed is the constant requirement and need for constant validation. Both emotional and physical. More so Physical the last several years. I am not a forward "Lady's Man" kind of person. I shy away form most intimate connections unless I am 100% confident in myself/situation. Which isn't very typical. Even after 15 years in this relationship I am not there yet as much as I figure I should be. Definitely not where she feels I need to be. She asks me daily to give her physical and emotional attention and affirmation. More so when she is angry or upset with me or something else. It very draining.

When my Ex got upset with me, which was increasingly frequent in the final years, she didn't want to be touched by me, at all, for weeks at a time.  But that was after we had a child.  I became the blamed guy and our child the Golden Child.  Sometimes she would have our toddler/preschooler hold her breasts "to comfort him".

I tried to lighten the dark moods.  When she was upset with me, I would ask her to punish me by making me give her a back rub.  She refused, she didn't want closeness and what that might lead to.  I know you're having difficulty with your wife's constant neediness but I can tell you that for me my now-Ex's emotional/physical distance was a hardship and deep frustration.

[ForeverDad]

She hold on to the past (almost exclusively the negative past) for dear life as if it is the force that keeps her alive.

My Ex, and many described here in peer support, developed a pattern as her disorderedness increasingly transformed her over the years to where she never 'remembered' her poor actions and never had to apologize for them and yet my actions were always brought up over and over no matter how many times I apologized.  Her rules for her were different from her rules for me.

The constant that has never changed is the constant requirement and need for constant validation. Both emotional and physical. More so Physical the last several years. I am not a forward "Lady's Man" kind of person. I shy away form most intimate connections unless I am 100% confident in myself/situation. Which isn't very typical. Even after 15 years in this relationship I am not there yet as much as I figure I should be. Definitely not where she feels I need to be. She asks me daily to give her physical and emotional attention and affirmation. More so when she is angry or upset with me or something else. It very draining.

When my Ex got upset with me, which was increasingly frequent in the final years, she didn't want to be touched by me, at all, for weeks at a time.  But that was after we had a child.  I became the blamed guy and our child the Golden Child.  Sometimes she would have our toddler/preschooler hold her breasts "to comfort him".

I tried to lighten the dark moods.  When she was upset with me, I would ask her to punish me by making me give her a back rub.  She refused, she didn't want closeness and what that might lead to.  I know you're having difficulty with your wife's constant neediness but I can tell you that for me my now-Ex's emotional/physical distance was a hardship and deep frustration.

[formflier]

Not looking is the best way not to get caught... .

Correct... .

Perhaps I didn't quite put this out there the right way.

If you don't want to look at porn... .don't.

If you do, then look at it.

next bit of nuance.  If you are doing something that is your choice and doesn't affect someone else, then there is a decision to make.

If they don't want you to do it and you do want to do it.

You can make a deal with them (not recommended with pwBPD)

You can let them know that what is on your computer is private.  Stop discussing it.  Be prepared for extinction burst stuff... .but you win this one.  It's up to your wife to sort out if she won or lost.

Telling your wife (PD or otherwise) that you will quit doing something and then continuing to do it (and getting caught) is going to be confusing (for anyone).

Telling your wife you won't do it, continuing to do it and not getting caught is better than above, but leaves issues with honesty (depending on your morals)


Have I missed any options? 

What I bolded is my recommendation.

FF

[Cipher13]

FF
Good points. That area of saying this is what I want to do (for myself) is not my first instinct. My head goes to putting her first in all considerations like dinner, movies, TV shows, vacations, household chores, etc. This internet issue has been my way I think of having my own time. I' rather it be more of a positive thing like fishing or reading a book... .of which I am going to try my best to replace the internet looking.

Also I have a hard time with not letting her go. When she is telling me she's done and its over I want that to be so. My mind goes into a spin of yes I to want this. But I do not express it in return saying I don't want that. I want our relationship to be fixed and be what we both want it to be. What I really want to say is "Yeah me too." But some reason I think that will let her down even more. This kind of thinking has kept me in this doomed relationship for 15 years.

[formflier]

This kind of thinking has kept me in this doomed relationship for 15 years.

Perhaps... .

The one thing I like is "this kind of thinking" which was tied by to you explaining how you think.  So... pretty clearly you have taken responsibility.  

My hope and prayer for you is that in a few months you will say "I have chosen to stay in this r/s for 15 years"

Many of us nons (me included) can get into thinking about ourselves as victims that are being "attacked" by a pwBPD... .and that we are powerless to defend or save ourselves.  Unfortunately in many cases... .technically that is true.  If we are victims we build up resentment about others (the persecutors) and eventually lash out at them.

If we are responsible for our own choices, then the focus is turned to us, vice the pwBPD.  The good thing about focusing on us is that we are 100% in control of our choices.

Look, years ago I would lie to my wife (bad FF... .bad!   ) and say things like "I don't know anything about X", sometimes she would figure out later that I did know about "X" and she correctly figured out I was lying my a$$ off to protect "something".  That fueled paranoid fears.

My decisions damaged the relationship... I'm 100% responsible for that.

Once I got straight in my head that I am valuable enough to have privacy and to "enforce privacy" and to "stand up" to anyone that would seek to take away my privacy... .things started to improve in my relationship and in my life.  And yes... .I freaked out my wife.

Basically... .I thought of myself first (in regards to privacy) and was unapologetic about it

She accused me of being a "selfish a$$hole".  That was pretty easy to validate... .as it was true.  (the emotion... )

Now I would say something like

FF wife (harsh and probing):  :)id you talk about me today at your appointment with P?  What did you say?

FF:  :)iscussions with my P are private.  I'm willing to set up joint time if there are things you would like to ask or discuss.

If she asks in more of a musing way... .vice "demanding to know".

FF:  Boy (ff wife name), those sessions last about an hour and we cover a lot of ground.  There's really no way for me to accurately recall everything we said, so it's best if I don't try.

See how the second one is a little softer?  There are times when I try "softer" when she is demanding.  Sometimes it inflames her vice shuts down the probing discussion.

This is wear experience and "practicing the art" comes in.  When there is a musing (yet probing question) the goal is to not "ramp it up".  Soft is definitely called for first.

When a demand is out there... .it's hard to know if "validation" or "soft" will work, but you know for sure that this line of question needs to be done.  

Hope this makes sense.

Split up the issues... .big boundaries between issues in your mind and in your life.

If you like to look at porn, that's your business.  :)on't involved others (including your wife) in your business if they don't respect and value you.

FF

[Waddams]

Also I have a hard time with not letting her go. When she is telling me she's done and its over I want that to be so. My mind goes into a spin of yes I to want this. But I do not express it in return saying I don't want that. I want our relationship to be fixed and be what we both want it to be. What I really want to say is "Yeah me too." But some reason I think that will let her down even more. This kind of thinking has kept me in this doomed relationship for 15 years.

Probably repeating things I and others have said before, but you're FOG'd up so bad you habitually never think of taking care of yourself.  Therapy and space/separation from her are needed to address this.  If not physical separation, then at least emotional separation and physically removing yourself when starts to throw FOG at you (like leaving, going for a walk, to a park, to a movie on your own, etc.).  You're going to feel bad for telling her "no" and standing up for yourself.  You've been conditioned to for 15 years.  :)eep down, you want out, but you need to figure out how to overcome your conditioning.  

As for not wanting to let her down even more, all I can say is adults are responsible for managing themselves.  You aren't there to protect her from feeling bad.  If she feels bad, or even worse than now, because you end it and leave, THAT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.  There is a huge difference between feeling compassion and being codependent.  It's okay to keep compassion for the pain she'll experience, but understand you staying only makes it worse when you do eventually snap and leave (and that's coming), and the more you try to be resopnsible for her feelings, the more you enable her to continue to be so dysfunctional.  She WON'T grow and get better as long as you are there to continue in this cycle.  The ONLY way she gets better, and therefore the ONLY way you can precipitate it happening, is to not be there to carry her emotions for her. Your leaving is not letting her down.   Her behavior now and response to your leaving is her letting herself down.

You either:
-Figure out how to not carry that burden for her while staying with her, with the understanding, there will be a huge extinction burst, and she may never stop FOG'ing and abusing you, she may never stop trying to get you to continue your role up to this point, -or-

-Leave and don't be available for her to participate in this cycle.  If she's alone, she has to deal with her emotions on her own.  Sometimes, leaving is the best thing you can do for them.  They won't see it that way, especially right now, and maybe not ever, but that doesn't change the truth of it.

[Cipher13]

Maybe this should be on a different post but its related so I will continue on. Waddams as usual you make thing perfectly clear. So brief update in my life: I am moving again. Sold our house yesterday. Moving in with the in-laws (also again) for a few weeks until we can move in to new house. The added stress now has moved form buying/selling to living with her parents again. I'm ok with it (not my first choice but they have been very welcoming) she is so against it that it is causing extinction bursts. She's asking me what am I going to do to not piss her off. My first thought was to not say or do any thing but I know that will set her off because 20 minutes of not having a form of contact sets her off.  Yesterday I took the day off work to move our large items to store at her parents. She was at work. From 4:30 am I got up took apart all here weight machines and exercise equipment. Rents a truck and loaded it up. Then unloaded it. I had 1 helper. From the time she got home from work to well as I am typing this this morning she has been angry. I know its mostly the situation (living arrangements) that she it ticked off about. I get the brunt of it. Just great.

[GaGrl]

But let me guess... .it was her choice to sell the house and move, right?

[ForeverDad]

I guess you've already bought the house or in the process?

Frankly, if the relationship is coming to an end it would be best to do it when you have the least amount of joint assets.  Which from what I read is what you're pondering right now?  Where are you on the relationship?  You know she's not going to change by very much if at all.  (For her to improve she would need long term therapy that she applied in her life and thinking.)  So real improvement is left up to you and your decisions.

I know this is the deciding or conflicted board, but (frankly again) if you're between houses why not postpone the next house until you decide whether you will stay in a dysfunctional relationship?  Not to mention if we are about to head into a financial downturn, as some say may happen, you could end up selling the house in a down housing market.

What I'm saying is that if the marriage does end sooner rather than later, it would be less complicated Now.  You could move out of the in-laws' house and she would have a place to live while you and her unwound the legal details of the remaining marital assets.  The opportunity now that would reduce divorce issues is that (1) you would not end up supporting her for a few years in a house she probably can't afford to pay on her own and (2) you would have fewer marital assets over which to argue.

What do you think?  Does it sound reasonable to delay buying another house (which purchase would make a separation harder and more complicated) until you determine which direction your relationship is heading?

Disclaimer:  I am a strong supporter of marriage but admit I found myself in an increasingly dysfunctional marriage that was cornering me into emotional and legal risks.  I had to admit to myself that our marriage was dysfunctional and unhealthy.  My marriage imploded.

[Cipher13]

Unfortunately the deal is done. I had really tried to extend this buying process. The original deal pretty much fell through and I wasn't happy with the outcome so I thought we would be moving on. Then eventually they came to terms. The answer to whose idea it was is correct. Hers not mine. Although I do want to be closer to work and this cuts my drive in half. I'm an hour and 15 mins right now.

Because of the moving and staying at the in-laws and this internet issue things haven't been this rocky and that's includes a lot stuff for a lot of years.