My ex's ex killed herself

[Beach_Babe]

My ex's ex killed herself as a result of his remorseless and sociopathic behavior. I found out from a friend of a friend who was soliciting memorial donations. Ex was smirking, apparently, as he was removed from the premises during the funeral. How on earth did I love this sociopath?

Maybe some folks really are beyond redemption?

Even worse lately he has been fishing around... .

[rfriesen]

Beach_Babe,
That sounds like an incredibly tragic and traumatic story. How are you holding up?

No doubt there are some evil people in the world, or at least people who do horribly evil things. Does that fit with your experience of your ex? Do you feel he really was a sociopath, as distinct from the kinds of descriptions most posters here typically give of exes who show BPD traits, notably deep needs to form intense emotional attachments combined with fears of both abandonment and engulfment?

My ex hurt me terribly with her rage and accusations and lying and cheating. But with more than four months' distance, I can see that she was sincere in those moments when she expressed how desperately she wanted to love and be loved, and not find herself alone. She simply didn't know how to manage conflicting emotions, and lashed out horribly as a result. I can't be with her as a partner, but I know she isn't evil.

If you think your ex is truly more of a sociopath and capable of laughing at an ex's suicide, then the most important question for you is, are you safe? Do you have people you trust that you can rely on? In what ways is your ex sniffing around?

[Beach_Babe]

Well they only diagnosed him BPD so insurance would pay. This was by the psychiatrist's own admission. I was told he was more of a narcissist, not that it matters I suppose. Bpds may feel regret and remorse, but NPD/ASPD sure don't. My mother is BPD, and I sure never saw her laugh at a funeral. Sick.

The dissonance between what they really are (and what we want them to be sometimes) is huge. I gave up on any kind of recycle/friendship long ago but there was still a part of me that hoped for closure. Its never going to happen, because he is sick and it can't    He regrets nothing. He can't.

He has been trying to make contact lately, and a part of me really wants to destroy him. I mean, where's the justice here?  The other part still yearns for closure. None of these options are good, however, and I know the best thing is to remain NC. Right? Remind me.

[gotbushels]

Hi Beach_Babe  

He has been trying to make contact lately, and a part of me really wants to destroy him. I mean, where's the justice here?  The other part still yearns for closure.

I want to be cautious here so if someone wants to correct me, go ahead. I do think your sense of justice to the point of destroying him does have some basis. You've somewhat stated that he derived and expressed some sort of joy or malicious joy from the death of a previous romantic partner. Joy from a suicide seems so far from normal that it might cause a sense of grave injustice in us. It's there among the worst criminal acts.

None of these options are good, however, and I know the best thing is to remain NC. Right? Remind me.

Well. He seemed to express joy at the death of a previous romantic partner. That's one of those things where when people say "run for the hills", the hills may not be far enough. If I met a new person and I found this out about them, it may be enough for me to avoid them categorically.

He didn't commit murder, I don't know if the smirk was from malicious joy, I don't even know if he really smirked. But the point is that you're coming to these kinds of ideas--something of criminal maliciousness? These ideas are quite extreme. There's clearly something very amiss. It may reward you to listen to what your body may be trying to tell you.

[Beach_Babe]

... .what I am asking for help with, is to continue the most responsible course... .and that  is ignore/ no contact. I feel terribly sad for the girl, however. How do you forgive someone who regrets nothing (and enjoys inflicting pain). I still struggle with this because the reality is that horrible. How do I learn to forgive ?

[gotbushels]

... .what I am asking for help with, is to continue the most responsible course... .and that  is ignore/ no contact. I feel terribly sad for the girl, however. How do you forgive someone who regrets nothing (and enjoys inflicting pain). I still struggle with this because the reality is that horrible. How do I learn to forgive ?

Okay.  Well, first, you're right, it's possible to forgive someone that seems to not regret big things. Have hope. I'd start with figuring out what specifically you want to forgive, then who you want to forgive. What and who Beach_Babe? You can also have a general thing you want to forgive.

[JerryRG]

Hey Beach_Babe

As crazy as it sounds forgiveness is not something that just comes natural, at least not to me. It takes practice and eventually it does work. The really crazy, strange thing is forgiveness actually heals us because the person we are forgiving may not even be aware of our intent.

In AA we make amends, sounds simple and innocent and maybe silly but from my experience it has been miraculous for my well being.

I pray blessings upon my exgf every day, I resisted at first because I wanted to hurt her like she hurt me. A good friend once told me, "do you want her to stay sick, that's a gurenteed way of never getting along with her"

I still do not like my exgf, I tell people I wouldn't spit on her if she were on fire but I'm just keeping a little anger brewing so I never let her back into my life. Sort of a flaming boundery if you want a visual.

Again, it does work, I didn't like doing it and if left to my choices I would still hate her with a passion.

I hope you have a great weekend

One more thing, these people have stolen enough of our peace, I will do anything in my power to get mine back. It's not up to me if my exgf hates me, the less I think about her the better I become.

I say fix it, if only in our hearts and move on... .save ourselves any more pain and misery

[Beach_Babe]

gotbushels: I want to forgive my ex because he is too sick to be sorry. But how when the reality is so horrible?

JerryRG:  . Thats the thing. I don't want to stay angry, but it seems to be the only thing that keeps me from ruminating. Its almost as if he is so toxic empathy can only exist in my head; thats all things are to him, a game. Thats all they will ever be  . jerry has your ex ever tried to apologize?

[JerryRG]

Hello Beach_Babe

No, my exgf has never apologized directly for anything, the closest thing to an apology is her saying we were both to blame in our disfunctional relationship,  so she never truly accepted anything she did and always tied it to my behaviours somehow. I did plenty wrong and she only did things in reacting to me. Both complicit

[Beach_Babe]

That has to be disappointing, no?

[JerryRG]

Just another unacceptable behaviour I learned to accept in the desperate plea to convince her I did truly love her. No reciprocation. One way love

[gotbushels]

I want to forgive my ex becausehe is too sick to be sorry. But how when the reality is so horrible?

So it seems that you want to forgive because you want him to be sorry. The illness seems to be getting in the way of that process. Okay.

It's okay that we want them to be sorry. Sometimes that want is very strong--often in proportion to the amount of indignation or injustice we feel. When we feel indignation, that's sometimes considered a root of anger, so that's normal if you feel anger there.

Is there anything else you want the act of forgiveness to give you?

[gotbushels]

Wow OopsIDidItAgain thanks for sharing.  

A lot of us here seem to feel our exs/partners have a good amount of immaturity.

Your story though... .sounds pretty crazy. I feel really sorry for that woman and her dog. Based on that description, your partner sounds quite far out-of-control, no offence.

[Beach_Babe]

No he will NEVER be sorry. He can't, his brain is not wired that way. It's like asking a crippled person to run a marathon. Can't. Happen. Ever. That is my big takeaway from this board. It's a mental illness, and no one chooses to be this way.

That said, I struggle with how to forgive someone who thrives on sadism. Not for him, but for myself.  I think thats why I remain a little stuck.

[Skip]

Was this the girl he dated before you, 16 years ago?

[Beach_Babe]

Nope. It was my replacement, who reached out to me a few months after being dumped. I guess he ended up smearing her in a way that soiled her professional reputation. She seemed like a good kid. Point is, he is what he is I guess. I don't know how to make peace with it. How do you forgive someone, for yourself, that can never be sorry?

[Skip]

Can you tell us the story?

[Beach_Babe]

She contacted me after she was discarded. Prob around month 6 NC for me. We talked every so often. I feel guilty I couldn't stop her. He so wasn't worth it.  He will never be sorry. Not the animal cruelty, fraud or abuse. He thinks its funny. He enjoys pain, it makes him feel powerful. But if I don't find some way to make peace with it, i'm only hurting myself.

[Want2know]

She contacted me after she was discarded. Prob around month 6 NC for me. We talked every so often. I feel guilty I couldn't stop her. He so wasn't worth it.   He will never be sorry. Not the animal cruelty, fraud or abuse. He thinks its funny. He enjoys pain, it makes him feel powerful. But if I don't find some way to make peace with it, i'm only hurting myself.

It sounds like he's not the one to forgive, but that you need to forgive yourself.  There really is nothing you can do for him.  I understand why you might feel that way.  It just seems like you are still enmeshed in the whole situation.  What will it take for you to remove yourself from the equation and let it go?  

This really is not your mess... .concentrate on you.  What do you need for yourself to feel whole again?

[Sadly]

Hi BB
Forgiveness is a tricky one. My Grandad raped me when I was 8 and no one knew, this continued for 2 years and basically screwed up my life in many ways. I don't forgive him and never will, and because I was just a little girl I don't think I have anything that caused it to forgive myself for,  I was an innocent and did no wrong. However, I have forgiven myself for not forgiving him, does that make sense? I have talked and read over the years and eventually came to the conclusion it was ok, I could not forgive such evil and forgave myself for not being able to. Hope this helps.
  x

[Beach_Babe]

Thank you, Sadly (and everyone who responde) vI'm so sorry you had to
Go through that! How are you doing now? 

[Sadly]

Ok thanks BB. Well apart from this with my BPDex still going on but yes ok about the other stuff. I found out many years later that he had done the same thing to my aunts, his own two little girls at the same age. One is in total denial but the other one was horrified and racked with guilt that she hadn't said anything which would have saved me. It took a long time to convince her that she didn't say anything for the same reasons I didn't but she understood eventually that there was nothing to forgive. When he died she pretended she was ill and couldn't go to his funeral and we actually laughed together cos that was the same reason I gave.  I'm no saint, when she explained how she had kept her daughter my cousin safe from him it broke me for a while cos no one had kept me safe but talking and understanding helped us both and I love her very much. Tbf she did say she didn't give a rats *ss about forgiveness for him and neither do I but like I said, I forgive me for not forgiving him and that works just fine.   xx

[Moselle]

Sorry BB. It's tough when anybody loses a life. Let alone when it's related to an ex of ours.

We done for being so strong, getting out and going NC. Hang in there. 

[Pretty Woman]

Beach, this isn't your fault. You were there for this woman when she reached out. You are not responsible for her mental state nor her actions.

Three years ago I almost killed myself for the same reason. All my private business ended up at work because my ex's sister. To make matters worse I wasn't out of the closet and hadn't planned on being out of the closet at work. I pretty much had to come out to save my job. Luckily my boss is amazing and has backed me up no matter what.

Then, my ex's sister tormented and threatened me. She threatened if I even looked at her the wrong way she would have me fired.

For two years I avoided the bathroom on our floor. Now, I walk right past her and look her in the eye. No one is EVER going to intimidate nor bully me again.

But at the time I was very, very broken. My ex had annihilated me and having others judge me on top of that was extremely painful.

You are not responsible for her "inner strength". Some people are not strong enough to endure. All you can do is be glad it was not you and sad for her, sad that she lost her life over a total waste of a human being.