Break up questions

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 I've just finished breaking up with someone who I think was BPD. She told me I was perfect, her soul mate. Things moved very quickly and things were amazing at first.  she had trust issues but I thought they would disappear.  Soon she was acussing me of cheating almost daily.  She tried to control who I went out with, I went out with my daughter one night and when I came home she threw me out. Later she started to hit me.  I was able to stop the physical abuse but the next time we fought she threatened my life.  I left her after this but thought she would realize what she was doing was wrong.  I talked to her family but they didn't want to deal with it.   I spent a little bit of time messaging her about why I left and expected her to want to communicate and deal with the issues but her response was to go no contact and block me, my family and my friends   I feel I didn't get closure and have so many questions about what happened.  Help!

[Dave12]

 I've just finished breaking up with someone who I think was BPD. She told me I was perfect, her soul mate. Things moved very quickly and things were amazing at first.  she had trust issues but I thought they would disappear.  Soon she was acussing me of cheating almost daily.  She tried to control who I went out with, I went out with my daughter one night and when I came home she threw me out. Later she started to hit me.  I was able to stop the physical abuse but the next time we fought she threatened my life.  I left her after this but thought she would realize what she was doing was wrong.  I talked to her family but they didn't want to deal with it.   I spent a little bit of time messaging her about why I left and expected her to want to communicate and deal with the issues but her response was to go no contact and block me, my family and my friends   I feel I didn't get closure and have so many questions about what happened.  Help!

[Mutt]

Hi Dave12,



I'm sorry that you had to go through that. Black and white thinking is a criterion of the disorder. A pwBPD only see people and the world as either black or white and not as an integrated whole, you're either put on a pedestal and idealize you or will perceive faults and devaluate you. A pwBPD don't see that a good person has bad qualities and and a bad person has good qualities.

I'm glad that you decided to join the discussions, it helps to talk to people that share similar experiences that can offer you guidance and support. I can relate with how difficult and painful that is when a partner does not give you closure and you're left confused wondering what happened? Are you safe at the moment, is she still threatening you? Are you done with the r/s? It helps to talk.

[backfromhell]

I think closure with them is close to impossible. Mine reached out about 7 months after the break up for the sole reason she felt like I needed closure to move on (awe! how thoughtful!). Closure is mutual, this was anything but. It was just an attack to attempt and reopen the wounds, to see if I'm still available to her, rub it in my face she was so happily invested in someone new, and there was nothing left between us. If that were the case what's she doing wasting time messaging an ex? Food for thought

[Confused108]

My ex did the same. Right before her discard of me she accused me of flirting with my friends on Facebook. Not true at all. She also tried to get me to get rid of my friends . One night while I was in the phone with her she basically told me she wanted to put a pillow over my head. She said this to me on 2 Diffrent occasions. Even tho I said to her that's not normal and she claimed she was joking I think she would have done it given the opportunity. Consider yourself lucky and run as far as you can. Don't ever let her back in.

[JJacks0]

backfromhell, my ex just reached out to me on Wednesday after 2 months NC. She told me she's been casually dating someone, but wants to get together as friends. I thought it was strange since the last time I saw her (2 months ago) she wanted to be with me that morning, and didn't by the evening. She said it was too confusing to be around me so we shouldn't speak for a while (we had been together for 7 yrs). Do you think she's just trying to maintain control over me? Just curious to see what in the h*ll this means.

And Dave, sorry for hopping on your post with my own troubles. I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this. Sounds a lot like what many of us here have gone through. The control issues, insecurities, intense idealization in the beginning, and rapid development of the r/s sounds just like my experience with my ex. Her family left it nearly all to me to deal with as well. It's crazy how similar these stories all sound. I know you'll get some great advice from the people here.

[Dave12]

I'm definitely done with the r/s but from what I've suddenly realized is how difficult the ending to these relationships are.  You remember all the things they told you and how they made you feel and suddenly it changes.  It hurts my head thinking of what she said and she also broke my heart . I don't understand how someone goes from one extreme to another?   It was becoming so stressful I am glad I left but the doubt comes in when you remember who they used to be. 
My heart is slowly healing, guessing time will heal the wounds. 
I wanted to post my experiences in hopes that with others validation that she was BPD it helps me get the closure I desperately need.  Thanks for all the responses!

[Mutt]

We're not professionals and can't diagnose but what can look at is BPD traits and have boundaries against dysfunctional behavior.

It was becoming so stressful I am glad I left but the doubt comes in when you remember who they used to be.

Are you confused with who she was? Was she the person that idealized me at the beginning or is she the person that devaluated me at the end?

[Dave12]

Yes!  You said it so well.  Is she both sides I saw?  :)id she mean all the horrible  things she did when she wasn't getting her way.  Are they in control of themselves when they get angry? I have read controlling people can't change and I try and get some peace from this information  
 The problem lies in the fact I want to see the best in people and want to think the core of every person  is good... .I am realizing this may be a naive way of thinking

[Dave12]

Yes!  You said it so well.  Is she both sides I saw?  :)id she mean all the horrible  things she said and did when she wasn't getting her way.  Are they in control of themselves when they get angry? I have read controlling people can't change and I try and get some peace from this information  
 The problem lies in the fact I want to see the best in people and want to think the core of every person  is good... .I am realizing this may be a naive way of thinking

[VitaminC]

The problem lies in the fact I want to see the best in people and want to think the core of every person  is good... .I am realizing this may be a naive way of thinking

It might be helpful to not think of it in terms of "good" and "bad", Dave.  I don't think people's cores are essentially either of those things. They are more along the lines of damaged or reasonably healthy.

The more damaged (or hurt) we are, the more damage (or hurt) we cause in those around us. It may or may not be intentional, but even the idea of its being intentional is predicated on the notion of there being a healthy core to operate from and choosing one behaviour over another. 

If I look at my own now ended relationship in those terms, it makes it a lot easier to see healthy and unhealthy coping mechanisms and the effects they produced. By this I mean my ex's and my own.  It gives me a different perspective and more distance.  Less moral judgement and more evaluation in terms of what strings were being plucked and what tones and tunes came out of it.

 

[Mutt]

I like Vitamin C's analogy regarding people's core, that said, I just wanted to say when we're stuck focused on one aspect of a person or a r/s, step back and look at the the whole picture, she's actually both, assess the r/s from the beginning to the end, one part of the r/s does not make the entirety of the r/s, it's the good, the bad and everything in between.

[Dave12]

Thank you for those words of wisdom,  I agree that healthy or unhealthy is a much better way of viewing things.  This has given me a whole new perspective to look at things from. I guess at the center of these relationships is the hope that the relationship can become healthy.  I had been with my partner for three years,
I had started off being firm and saying no to some of her demands but as time went on I started to waver and gave into them.  Once this started her demands grew more and more and it felt like she started to disrespect me. 
Once I started to see patterns in how I was being treated I realized i needed to leave.  I believed if I moved out she would see why and Get help. Her response to me leaving the abuse was giving me an ultimatum. If you don't move back in we are done.  Looking back I see a lot of control issues with her

[Dave12]

How do they love so deeply and suddenly hate just as deeply?

This is a profound mystery to me.

 You'd think with all good times, memories, team building that they would miss you.  It sucks to feel like you were nothing more than an object to them.  And of course never getting closure is so difficult.  It's like they do this to torture you one last time, like they are still in control of the relationship and you

[Mutt]

A pwBPD see the world and the people in it as either black or white and can't see the grey areas or see people as an intergrated whole, good people have bad qualities and bad people have good qualities, at the beginning of the r/s, everything is perfect and small slight are excusable, a perfect image, as the r/s goes on they start to see the imperfections in you minor slights are viewed as rejection, and abandonment, splitting is a defense mechanism that protects against anxiety and stress, BPD traits emerge during stressful periods. Here's a deep dive discussion on idealization / devaluation:

From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

[VitaminC]

Yes to what Mutt said! The article posted there was very useful to me, even though I think I probably read it about 73 times before it started to make sense to me.

The way I finally understood it, was to think of my ex as an emotional 3 year old. A 40 year old toddler.

In the same way that small kids will want something intensely right now and be seemingly inconsolable if they can't have it, so do our BPDs (to varying degrees, depending on their own individual make-up) think want=need=I can't survive without.  

If you stand in a toddler's way of getting a thing, if you are the one who says "a little later, love", that toddler might accept it,  but will more than likely be very aggrieved by you and maybe momentarily hate you!

If you distract them, they'll forget about th thing, most probably. If you try to reason it out and explain why they can't have the thing, they'll not really be able to follow your reasoning.  There are a number of cognitive developments that simply haven't happened yet - which would enable the toddler to defer pleasure and to use logical reasoning to dampen a huge emotional desire.  (Hell, grown ups without any disorders often have huge problems doing this)

It's often said that BPD is a disorder of the mechanisms (partly nature, partly nurture) that regulate the emotions. What that effectively translates into is a kind of arrested emotional development that leads to impulsivity, abandonment fears, black&white thinking, and push-pull behaviours that are attempts to pull someone close and then push them away when they suddenly feel "too close".

Memories are difficult. You know, it's true of everyone that we perceive things through our moods. On a happy day, colours appear brighter, objects and people in sharper focus, the whole world just looks like a happier place. On a day we're really down, the same world looks a bit greyer and duller. I'm sure you've noticed that? Our memories work similarly. We remember things through our moods and our interpretations of those things. That's why two people might remember very different things about the same place, a person, or an experience. Multiply this by several times for someone with BPD.

You're not just an object, Dave. You don't know what someone else remembers or how they've explained it to themselves, or even what their experience of it was in the first place. Not really.

I do hear what you're saying though. Of course. Most of us here know how that feels and it's not an easy place to be. It was good you were able to see the patterns and make a decision to leave - good for you. You saw what you needed and that you weren't getting it and did what you needed to take care of yourself.

That sounds pretty healthy to me.  :)on't you think that puts you in control? Of the only thing you can control - which is yourself.

[Mutt]

VitaminC has great analogy's again  A thought crossed my mind. How old is your D ( daughter ) ? I have a toddler and his thinking is very black and white. If he gets upset with me I'm the worst person in the world to him ":)addy I hate you!" he's overwhelmed with feelings and he sees me as all bad, I'm the worst person in the world to him at that moment, soon the tantrum passes and I'm the best person in the world to him, he's young and he'll grown out of that, generally pwBPD are diagnosed when they become of age because of the black and white thinking in adolescents, a pwBPD are emotionally arrested or stick at the emotional level of a young child. I hope that helps.

[Kelli Cornett]

She sounds very BPD. I think you should be grateful she is NC.

I'm sure it's best for both you to have that way as hard as it is.


She is not capable of trusting another human being or loving one. It's not your fault. You tried, she could not regulate herself to your needing.


I would look at this as a learning experience maybe get some therapy, and try and carry on.



Hopefully she will do the same but who knows.

[Dave12]

All the advice and insight has been amazing,    I have talked to a counsellor   It was helpful but this site has helped immensely.  My BPD has a young daughter age 11 and I have an older daughter who is 22  my ex tried to keep me from seeing my daughter as she didn't live with us but she tried to keep me from seeing allmost all my friends and family.   This has been an eye opening experience for me as I have never dealt with anything like this before. It has also helped me to understand myself better.  I honestly think the no contact has been more healing for me as I still had feelings for her and it has helped those feelings to lessen. I Started to realize it was a toxic relationship but it also helped show me that she wasn't healthy.  I think someone healthy would have dealt with it diffently.  I am starting to heal slowly.   Everyone has been amazing with all the insight and support.   Thank you, thank you, thank you!   Still hurting but have startingto come out of the FOG.  I will continued to read and learn.  As I've read they sometimes make contact again. Hoping i am strong enough to stay NC

[C.Stein]

I know how difficult it is to understand the coin flip, and that is what it essentially is.  Love and hate are two sides of the same coin, polar opposites yet very similar in emotional intensity.  For someone who experiences emotions as strongly as a borderline it is not difficult for them to flip the coin.  There is very little chance the coin will ever land on the edge, the edge being the gray area most people live in.

The best thing for you now is focus on dispelling the FOG so you can gain some clarity.

[Pretty Woman]

First, I want to give you kudos for walking away. It is not easy and I applaud you. More often than not, it's the BPD who leaves first. You knew things were bad and you took appropriate action to protect yourself.
 
Second, I will echo the sentiments of many people here: getting closure from a BPD is nearly if not impossible. If you do manage to get an apology it is insincere and then all your "faults" are thrown in your face:

I did this, because YOU did this... .

A BPD relationship is an immature one because your significant other has the emotional functioning of a toddler. Try reasoning with a toddler. If you've ever done that you know what I am talking about. All you get is tantrums, pouting and the toddler saying they are going to "run away" .

Does that sound a bit like your ex?

You will NEVER be able to rationalize with an irrational person. Instead of trying to get closure from her, why not work on why you stayed for three years. Turn the focus inward and you may be able to get the closure you need.

You are doing SO well and I am very proud of you.  Keep posting, reading and reflecting. The "gift" my crappy BPD relationship gave me was that I was able to finally find myself after all this. I can recognize right away when someone possesses these traits and I steer clear. Had I never dated this person I would never know this stuff exists. I wouldn't wish anyone to go through this, but I am glad I did and know how to respond (or not respond) to these types.

 
PW

[Dave12]

Thank you, I am definely spending a lot more time reflecting on who I am and what my personal boundaries are.  I will say the first year and a half was pretty amazing, hence why I stayed when things started to go down hill.  It seemed she understood no at the beginning and I was firm with my boundaries.  Looking back I think she was testing me now to see which boundaries were the strongest. Once she found my  weakness it became a weapon to her and she used this to gain some power over me.  I did try and explain how I felt but soon she was insulting and emasculating me.  We went to a counsellor who did not empathize with her viewpoint so we never went back.  Her viewpoint always took into her needs first.
As we had started a new life together with a blended family and a new house leaving was even more difficult as I still had feelings for her and hope that somehow things would get better.  Once the physical abuse started her threats I knew it would only get worse and I would loose myself in this relationship filling someone's unending needs. Emotinal, financial, and physical. 
I have learned learned it is not my job to fix someone, we can only fix ourselves and some times leaving gives them this opportunity if they are healthy enough to realize this and not just blame others

[VitaminC]

I have learned learned it is not my job to fix someone, we can only fix ourselves and some times leaving gives them this opportunity if they are healthy enough to realize this and not just blame others

That sounds like a very worthwhile lesson to have learned. I agree. As hard as it can be, doing that thing to protect ourselves often also properly honours the other, in the sense that it allows them to do whatever they need to do to fix themselves.  It can be the most respectful course of action, both to ourselves and the other person.

[Mr.R.Indignation]

Daaaaaave! Can't really add much since you've already done yourself a service and obviously everyone else is on point with their advice, but congrats.

One thing I always try to bare in mind is that I have healthy relationships with other people. For instance I have a cousin who's like a twin sister to me that I've spoken to every day for 2-3 years, and for me that serves as an example of how healthy relationships should function. 

I think that it's important to treat romantic relationships as excess. You've got to enjoy your life and appreciate the people already in it first, and enjoy a romantic relationship as a secondary thing. It should exist because it makes you happier, not because even though it's miserable it might make you happier.

Something I noticed with my ex was that she was always unhappy with whatever situation she was in. She wanted to move to feel safe (even though she's in a quiet suburban neighbourhood), she wanted to get cosmetic surgery to feel confident (even though she's gorgeous), she needed to get this, this and that in order to be happy. But she'd always have something else to add to her list. For me that served as a way to model myself - go the opposite way. I realised I don't need all that much and by sticking with her I was exhibiting the same behaviour, except rather than being material I was looking for a safe place and confidence in a person who couldn't provide it.

So yeah, stay righteous! Happiness comes from a better place than the one you were in.

Good luck!

Baron von Indignation

[Dave12]

Yes,  all this insight and understanding has been very helpful to gain some closure and peace.  What I don't understand is why I still have feelings for her and why I have a desire to communicate with her to tell her how deeply she hurt me.   I feel betrayed on so many levels,  I dropped my walls, confided my fears, past hurts, what I loved and wanted in a relationship and then to have these things used against you and to be  told it's your fault you begin to believe them.  I am wiser and stronger for the experience but I am broken  emotionally by trusting so deeply so quickly.
 I know healing takes time but it is irrational to have such deep feelings  for someone you should literally hate for messing with your mind and emotions

[C.Stein]

What I don't understand is why I still have feelings for her and why I have a desire to communicate with her to tell her how deeply she hurt me.   I feel betrayed on so many levels,  I dropped my walls, confided my fears, past hurts, what I loved and wanted in a relationship and then to have these things used against you and to be  told it's your fault you begin to believe them.  I am wiser and stronger for the experience but I am broken  emotionally by trusting so deeply so quickly.

I totally understand this place you are in Dave as I am in the same place.  It is acceptance we both need and finding that is so very hard when your emotions tell you one thing and your logical mind tells you another.  I put so much faith and belief in my ex and I was betrayed on every conceivable level.   My mind and heart rebel against this because I wanted to believe in her and what our potential future could hold for each of us, and in some small way I still want to believe that.  

I don't want to think she is a bad person because I really don't think she is, but when I look at the things she did it is hard to not think that, disorder or not.  It is exceptionally difficult to let go of those beliefs especially when you can see the good in her trying desperately to come out.  When you put so much energy into convincing yourself of this, in spite of all the signs that said otherwise, and that is ripped away from you it leaves you broken without direction.

Can you see a way to get some direction and belief in yourself again?

[Dave12]

I think so,  I'm not doing as many things as I'd like.  Lots of reflecting on the relationship.  Trying to get out and do all the activities I enjoy and spend time with my friends and family.  Everyone has been supportive so it's helped.  It's almost impossible to explain to someone who has not experienced this how it affects you.   When you are caught up in it and they are creating chaos  one day at a time you are putting out fires and it is hard to see the bigger picture.  Once it's over you look back and realize how many fires there were and you step back and look at the bigger picture and realize how chaotic it was, but at the time  you are to focused on just one event at a time.   I am hoping this insight keeps me from being pulled into something like this again.  I will be watching for red flags more closely the next time I am healthy enough to start another relationship