How do I stop the destructive cycle

[George23]

So, it being 4 days since my BPD friend has spoken to me, our last communication finished with, I won't contact you again, good luck with everything, will block you now. (thats a reference to social media)

This is a pretty standard response to the end of an argument from her, I've lost count over the amount of times this has happened but one thing I know is that every time it happens it hurts me deeply.  She says the most spiteful,vile things.  I get blamed for everything bad and everything good that happens,  all my energy goes in to making things better for her, supporting her and always being available for her.

I'm tired, drained and sad that every time she hits a bump in the road our relationship suffers, my/our friends ask me why I put up with the behaviour, my reply is always that I can never walk away or turn my back on her for to do so I reinforce all the negative feelings she has around abandonment her low self esteem and all her negative feelings that shes not good enough. I am the one person she turns to when things get to much for her.

She says she cares about me but she continues to hurt me, she cant keep to any of the boundaries I try to put in place.  When she's hurts me she acts so cold like I don't even exist, she makes it impossible for me to talk to her, contact her, so I wait.  Then she contacts me even though she says she will never contact me again.  What goes through her head during that time?

What do I do?

What do I do when she contacts me again, how do I stop this cycle, how do I tell her she needs help? how do I support her?

Any advice given would be appreciated because I'm at my wits end.

[babyducks]

What goes through her head during that time?

Hi George,

I can guess at what might be going on with her.   pwBPD or the traits of it,  have harmfully intense emotions and maladaptive coping traits they use, often subconsciously, to manage the emotional intensity they live with.   Does that make sense?   When things get going it's very difficult for a pwBPD to regulate their emotions, put the brakes on an argument, dial down their enthusiasm, stay in the center of things and not end up in the extremes.  When she is hurt and acting cold like you don't exist, it's could be because she has such an emotional storm going on that she has reached the end of her ability to cope/deal with the storm and is emotionally shutting down.   Again often subconsciously.

What do I do?

What do I do when she contacts me again, how do I stop this cycle, how do I tell her she needs help? how do I support her?

I would suggest that what do you, whatever you decide, should reflect your values and your thoughts/ideas/feelings.  In other words, figure out what you want and hold tightly to that.   

You are absolutely right, this is a cycle.   It's good that you can identify it as a cycle.   Nice work.   What we call it is a circular argument.  You both are trapped in a circular argument.   She is getting something out of the cycle,  a place to vent her intense and negative emotions.   You are getting hammered.   Understand that it is very difficult to resolve a conflict with a pwBPD.   There are skills and tools here on this site that will help if you decide to engage with her.   Point blank, I will say there are special ways to respond to a person who is emotionally dsyregulated.  Explaining things logically is not usually a good start.   Think about this from your point of view.   When you are angry, upset, annoyed with something doesn't it add to the frustration when someone tries to explain it logically?   Works the same with her only times 10 in intensity.

It's not usually recommended that you tell some one they need help right away.   It's a tough thing to do, especially when you are emotionally involved and typically requires more information/education than you have been able to absorb just yet.   What is suggested is that if topic comes up you stay with symptoms not labels.   In other words, "I've noticed that you get really sad when XYZ happens would talking about that help?"    Not "I think you have BPD (or the traits) and here is the reasons why.   I think you should go see a professional".

What do you think?   

'ducks

[Georg]

That was a good question, and a good response.
I really love my romantic partner, and that's why I really don't want to leave that relationship.
I think the response given here is very valuable for me as well. I won't leave my relationship without a big fight for keeping it.  Pretty long time ago, I concluded that I can't, although there were times where I wanted to. Now, after reading a bit more here, I really want to stay and fight for it.

I think questions and answers here are very valuable knowledge for all of us who experience this. I like that you brought up this things about labels. It's true, I've have used labels in communcation with my pwBPD. But I will stop doing it. I mean, the reason for me to look into scientific definitions/diagnosis like that is _because_ I want to fight for our relation. I want to gain an understand in how she works so I can handle it better.  Because I love her.
She has repeatedly told me: "You can't handle me."
Which has been true. I haven't handled things right. I was not aware of what I was dealing with. Or I was not strong enough. Whatever.
Now, I want to be able to handle our clashes and break-ups better. And if possible, avoid them, or create fewer of them. She means a lot to me. And I care a lot about her.

But as I wrote in another thread... .sometimes, it just becomes a bit too much, and this forum was a good place to vent things and get a better understanding of people with BPD (if _that_ is why my partner has... .I cannot be sure, of course).

So, in your case, I hope things will work out for the best for both of you. If she returns to you, it means she cares about you. Try to use the tools here to reduce the intensity in arguments. I will try to do the same, because I experience the same problems. If you really care for someone, it's worth fighting for it. But, ultimately, the decision is yours. If you have strength enough to fight for it. I feel a bit stronger myself, now. So I'll keep fighting.

[George23]

Hello ducks

I understand what you are saying.  I've learnt the hard way that its difficult to resolve conflict with her, whatever we argue about she always brings up the same issue which I think is about her fear of abandonment, I'm accused of putting someone else first. I try to resolve with logic which makes things worse we just go round and round with her getting more and more hurtful and paranoid.

I'm tired of the roller coaster and I so want our relationship to be different she would always say to me that she wasn't good enough for me I would always tell her she was, she says she wants to be like me because I always know what to do.

I wake up in the morning I think of her straight away, what sort of day will she have, will she be ok, how is she feeling. Ive always put her first always suggested things for us to do and this is why I think I'm tired of it all, the vilification one minute and the absolute best person in the world the next it's draining.  Everytime she says she'll never speak to me again or blocks me from contacting her it hurts so much. 

I managed to get her to go to CBT for her anxiety and depression which she said she would do for me but she lasted only a few sessions she made an excuse not to go back. I know she needs to have therapy for herself not for me and that she probably stopped going because she had to look at herself and it was to painful.

I want to break the cycle but I guess I need to be in the cycle to do it, but thats my biggest dilemma I don't know if I've got the strength to do it anymore.
Its soul destroying watching her the way she is which was one of the last things I told her but using much more colourful metaphors! I got very angry with her, I told her that people had mentioned to me that she has got mental health issues and didn't like her, she didnt need to know that, I didn't need to tell her that.  She asked me who it was but I wouldn't tell her she just said that she hurts too, which I replied "I know because when you are hurting you make ... .well sure I do too"  I should never have said those things to her.

My friends just say to leave her to her life but they dont understand whats going on inside her, I'm trying to understand.

Do I contact her?

[babyducks]

Hi George, 

Do I contact her?

What are your hopes if you contact her?   

For many of us, we hope to be understood.   To finally, finally explain things in such a way, use that magic set of words, hit the right combination of gestures and actions,  so that our reality, our needs can be understood and shared.

For many of us, we hope for that promise, that promise that was made to us in the beginning of the relationship.   The promise of a devoted and loving partner.  The promise of being in a special and committed relationship.

For many of us, we hope for that thing we never had.  Those of us who come from families where love was either non existent or wrapped in abuse and dysfunction we hope to be really loved.

In a relationship with a person who is mentally ill, you will get some of that, it's also likely that you will get the conflict, the arguments, the impulsivity that comes with disordered thinking.   

No two relationships are the same,  no two people with BPD are the same.   The mix you will end up with is unique to you and yours.

whatever we argue about she always brings up the same issue which I think is about her fear of abandonment, I'm accused of putting someone else first.

Yeah me too.       Don't underestimate how important the wants and needs of a pwBPD are.   Her need for attention, proximity, affection (or what I like to call the big three) keep her feeling whole.   They keep the emptiness and self loathing at bay.   

I try to resolve with logic which makes things worse we just go round and round with her getting more and more hurtful and paranoid.

<snip>

she would always say to me that she wasn't good enough for me I would always tell her she was,

Explaining away some one feelings with logic is what we call invalidating.  It tells them, not only do you have this unpleasant feeling but you are also wrong about it.   It's hurtful.    If you look at the improving board and the saving boards you will see lots of lessons about validation.   It ain't easy.   A response that would be more validating when she says she isn't good enough for you would be something like.  'It must be hard to feel that way.  That would be upsetting.  Did something happen just now to make you feel like that?"   See the difference? 

Ive always put her first

I understand.  That's pretty normal.   All of us have done that.   If you focus only on her feelings and her needs you will lose yourself.   I know exactly how tired you are.    Been there.   Most of us find interesting stuff when we start to look at why we were so willing to put some one else first.   Why we stunk so badly at self care that we ran ourselves into the ground.

I managed to get her to go to CBT for her anxiety and depression which she said she would do for me but she lasted only a few sessions she made an excuse not to go back. I know she needs to have therapy for herself not for me and that she probably stopped going because she had to look at herself and it was to painful.

Being successful in long term therapy is tough stuff.   It's a major commitment and difficult for some one who doesn't live with crippling shame.

I got very angry with her, ... .   I should never have said those things to her.

Realize there is no moral equivalent between frustration and intentional abuse.  You were frustrated not abusive.   

Do I contact her?

are you prepared for all the possible outcomes of contact?  Can you not take it personally if she is in a bad place?   When I was first here a member said to me, a person with this level of volatility should be approached (or not) carefully.   Don't add any more drama to an already fraught situation.   If the chaos in her head can be likened to a turbulent river, don't pour any more water into that river.

What do you think?   Make sense?
'ducks

[George23]

It does make sense,
If I contact her what message am I giving her, I'm still frustrated and angry  what do I say?

I guess the most likely outcome to contact is that nothing will really change and we are still in the same old cycle, It did cross my mind though that she is trying to break the cycle herself but cutting me out.  But that doesn't break the cycle it just moves it to someone else!

I think part of me thinks she's at home as happy as larry getting on with her life which frustrates me even more because I'm in a mess about it all.  The other part of me knows her very well and knows she's not happy and is putting on a front.

[babyducks]

I guess the most likely outcome to contact is that nothing will really change and we are still in the same old cycle, It did cross my mind though that she is trying to break the cycle herself but cutting me out.  But that doesn't break the cycle it just moves it to someone else!

Exactly Right.  Good insight.      What I see is you both trying to change the cycle.   You by coming here and reading and posting.  Her in her own way.

If you look at the side bar to the right she is at step one and two.  stopping the bleeding and creating some space.   I would guess you are at step four, getting the honest, unemotional understanding of what BPD is and how it effects people.

It makes perfect sense to me that you would be angry and frustrated.  You have had a lot going on.  A lot of hurtful things have been said.

If you keep coming here for a while, and work on some of those other steps you will begin a journey to healthier relationship skills.   She might choose to come along on the journey.  She may not.   But you will be better able to deal with either outcome.

hope this helps.

'ducks

[George23]

Thanks ducks

[George23]

Ok, here's what I'm thinking, if I'm prepared to get back in the cycle to break the cycle, how do I get back in, I'm sitting here thinking have I got the emotional resilience to go through the ups and downs with her.

Also, do pwBPD know who they really are?  One of the biggest arguments recently is that she does not see us as a couple, one minute she is gay then she's not she wants to go out with a man, she wants to be friends. I've tried to put boundaries in place to just be friends but she moves them and says things like lets just see how we get on. When she says that she doesn't see us as a couple she thinks I get hurt, but I dont I just want her to decide what she wants and sticks to it.

When she is on the let's be friends mantra  that's fine with me, I'm old enough and been around long enough to know you cant make someone be with you, but she doesn't seem to know what she wants. It seems to me that it makes everything much more complicated for her and a tad confusing for me.

Whether we are a couple or just friends her behaviour towards me does not change but I'm starting to understand why and I don't really want to walk away.

[babyducks]

Hi George,

Do people with BPD know who they are ?   pwBPD have an instable sense of self.   This was very hard for me to understand for a long time.

The best description of the characteristics I ever found was written by Margalis Fjelstad.   I cut and pasted them in below.   Fjelstad is much smarter than I am, and her book is reviewed here on this site.  I got a lot of out it.  I would recommend it to anyone here.

Margalis Fjelstad's book: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, p. 9 - 11 

Traits of BP/NP

Emotional Instability
- Emotional neediness, which may be covered up by a façade of independence
- Sudden emotional outbursts of rage and despair that seem random
- Belief that the emotions of the moment are totally accurate and will last forever
- Inaccurate memory of emotional events, even changing the meaning of the events after the fact
- Seeing their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions
- Believing that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change
- Ongoing intense anxiety or fear

Thought Instability
- All-or-nothing thinking (ex. loving  you so intensely and then just as quickly reversing to hating you or thinking that they are a total failure, or conversely immensely superior)
- Intense belief in their own perceptions despite facts to the contrary
- Their interpretation of events is the only truth
- Cannot be persuaded by fact or logic
- Do not see the impact of their own behavior on others
- Deny the perceptions of others
- Accuse others of saying or doing things they didn't say or do
- Deny (even forget) negative or positive events from the past that conflict with current feelings

Behavioral Instability
- Impulsive behavior (ex. sexual acting out, reckless behavior, gambling, going into dangerous situations with little awareness
- Physically, sexually or emotionally abusive to others
- May cut, burn or mutilate themselves
- Often have addictions or other compulsive behaviors
- Create crises and chaos continuously
- Can go to suicidal thoughts when disappointed or disagreed with

Instability of a Sense of Self
- Intense fear or paranoia about being rejected, even to the extent that they need to be approved of by people they don't like
- Often change their persons, opinions or beliefs, depending on who they are with
- Lack of a consistent sense of self of who they are, or may have an overly rigid sense of self
- Often present a facade. May be fearful of being seen for "who I really am." Automatically assuming that they will be rejected or criticized.
- Out of sight, out of mind... difficulty realizing that they or others exist when not together
- Simultaneously see themselves as both inferior and superior to others

Relationship Instability
- Instantly fall in love or instantly end a relationship with no logical explanation
- Hostile, devaluing attacks on loved ones, while being charming and pleasant to strangers
- Overidealization of others (difficulty allowing others to be less than perfect, be vulnerable or make mistakes)
- Have trouble being alone even for short periods of time,yet push others away by picking fights
- Blaming, accusing and attacking loved ones for small, even trivial mistakes or incidents
- May try to avoid anticipated rejection by rejecting the other person first
- Difficulty feeling loved if the other person is not around
- Unwilling to recognize and respect the limits of others
- Demand rights, commitments and behaviors from others that they are not willing or able to reciprocate

Can you say more about what happened during your last argument,  who initiated no contact and how many times this has happened before?

'ducks

[George23]

Oh wow! there is so much of that I can see in her.

Our last argument started over a car! and lasted from Sunday morning until Monday night with some breaks along the way.

I had arranged to borrow my ex's car so a group of us could all go to a company meeting together it saved us taking more than one car.
Unfortunately my ex had to pull out of the arrangement because she had to go to a different city to visit her sick mother and had literally found out the morning of the day before we were going  I had no way of swapping my car with her as I was in a different city visiting my sick mother.  My ex's mother had had a stroke of course she is going to drop everything and go. So, i sent a text to our group saying really sorry but we will need to take more that one car as now cant get the big car for all of us to go, I also sent a personal message to my BPD friend.  The group replied with no problem and we made alternative arrangements.

BPD friend started going on about how the ex had done it on purpose and I needed to stand up to her, she always gets her own way and that the car had be arranged. I of course tried to explain with logic, the argument moved in to you care more about her than you do me and she doesnt have to go today and whats the point of her going anyway her mother has dementia she won't know she is there. You always let her ruin our relationship, she lives in your house with your things and that I need to put my foot down and go and rip out all the doors and flooring because they are mine (I paid for and fitted new doors and flooring when we were together). My ex lives in my ex house with my ex dog by mutual agreement. I left her, we don't hate each other and I have access to the dog its all very amicable.

I apparently always put my ex first, in 18 months I have done this twice. 1st was when BPD friend who at the time we were dating, wanted to come to my house (this was just before I moved out) I did not feel that this was appropriate out of respect for my ex, her life had been shattered as she did not want the breakup and I was not prepared to for want of a better word "parade" the new her in front of her. Also as BPD friend had contacted the ex on facebook telling her how badly she had treated me, which was not the case. As you can imagine there is a lot of animosity between the two of them. 
She always brings it up as I wouldn't let her in my house regardless of whether we were in our couple phase or our friend phase this is the one thing she repeats when we argue, this I can see to her meant I didn't love or want to be with her enough even though I would tell her all the time.

2nd time was I agreed to go with the ex to see her mother and step father about a dementia home for her which she found very difficult to talk about, I had had some experience in this and so wanted to help her.


She always initiates no contact, usually with I'll never talk to you again or I won't contact you again or I'm blocking you and blocks me from all communications, (whatsapp, facebook, skype etc) this has happened 8 or 9 times.  She always contacts me again and so the cycle repeats.

[babyducks]

Yeah that's a familiar argument.   I think I've had that argument almost word for word.       If I try to look beneath the details of cars, houses, doors and flooring this is what I see.   Tell me what you see.

Your pwBPD felt her needs/wants weren't being met, worse than that, they were being ignored (emotional neediness).   She wanted the agreement to stand.   She projected her responsibility to care for her own emotional upset onto you (inability to self soothe).   You rightly decided that the travel arrangements were going to be different.   She started to slip into thought instability (intense belief of her own perceptions while denying you yours).   You logically explained that mother's with stroke surpasses company meeting.   An extreme sensitivity or fear of rejection surfaced in the 'you put your ex first'.  and then it sort of wraps up with the emotional instability of 'you and your ex are causing me to feel insecure, second class and rejected, you need to change what you are doing.'

Let me just say for clarity, that she is responsible for her feelings.

I had a lot of luck with the Yale Communications Model.  I could remember it during moments of stress and it fit rather naturally with my manner of speaking.    It looks like this:

When XYZ happens I feel ABC so I am going to MNO.  

For me it went like this, When we are in one of these arguments I feel upset and confused, so I am going to take a break from this topic for a couple of hours and we can talk about it again later.  

Lots of "I statements"   I statements are harder to argue with, not that my pwBPD didn't try.  No You statements, No You need to understand type stuff, which only fuels the fire.   In these high octane arguments it's very easy to get trapped in the you did this,  yeah well you did that cycle.   Try to avoid that.   When your pwBPD is dsyregulated she will likely only understand parts of what you are trying to convey at a time.   It might take several attempts for her to hear what you are saying.   Don't be discouraged if it you don't get the reaction you are trying for at first.

The other communication technique which is helpful is called SET.   You can find it in workshops here on this site.   Support, Empathy, Truth.    It would look something like this:   Support:  Yes, it's really unfortunate that our travel arrangements are changing at the last minute.   Empathy:   I was looking forward to all of us traveling together too.   Truth:  Still it looks like this time there is nothing to be done but take separate cars.     It would look different in your own words of course.

Are you currently blocked from all contact?   Is all social media locked down?  When she resurfaces after a period of silent treatment does she reappear acting as if nothing unusual has happened or does she mention that last argument?

BTW,  SET and the Yale Communication Model work really well with people with dementia.

[George23]

I'm really starting to see a behavioural pattern in arguements and conversations. She often uses statements of how do you think that makes me feel, I would always try to answer that with logic, but now I'm becoming more aware of the challenges that she faces, I'm starting to think I just made it a whole lot worse for her which makes me feel bad and that I want to start putting it right between us. It's been 2 weeks since I last had a proper conversation with her that didn't have us shouting at each other.  I feel helpless as I've still had no contact with her, I hear from a couple of mutual friends who saw here yesterday that she is getting on with stuff and she even indicated that I was fine when they asked her how I was.
I'm beginning to understand what I need to do how I respond to her if she ever talks to me again

[George23]

Ive had a text from my pwBPD it simply said you can claim expenses for the ... .journey. I said oh ok thanks and good luck for tomorrow (she was staring a new job) she replied with thanks hope you are getting on well (thats a reference to my new job) I said I love my job.

I then received a message saturday night saying I love my new flat, i said you've got a flat? Thats brilliant I'm really pleased for you. She said Yep, New job New flat, New relationship, everything is finally perfect, Whoop. I said ok she then said I can hibernate from the people who hate me.  I said I can see why you would think that but I never said people hate you, she said you said enough.  Then she went on to tell me she now walks around wondering who says shes crazy behind her back and that our friendship is so over and how shes moved on and how she can now do things she wanted to do, she got rid of her old life and got a new one and that no one has ever hurt her like I have. I just said things like I can understand why you feel like that and I can see why you would say that etc... .

I did say that I said somethings because I was angry and that we have both said things we shouldn't which her reply was thats your opinion. she could not accept that she said hurtful things to me.  Anyway, according to her, her life is perfect, shes moved on, so why did she feel the need to contact me and tell me that even though two weeks ago she was never going to contact me again?  

What am I supposed to do now?  What on earth is going through her head?

[babyducks]

Hi George,   

I am sorry you went through another difficult conversation.   How do/did you feel about how things went?   I imagine if that was me I would feel confused and upset.

What I learned about my experience with validation is that mostly validation kept the conversation from escalating into a violent argument.   It didn't change the disordered thinking or the slow down the projection.    It gave us the opportunity to have a conversation but having the potential to communicate didn't mean we would reach agreement.

It sounds to me like you did a good job engaging with her.   Keeping things low key,  not accepting blame that doesn't belong to you, and acknowledging her feelings.

So two weeks ago she was never going to contact you again and now she is back telling you her life is perfect.   Let's hold that up to the reasonableness test.  Does that sound likely to you?   Yeah me neither.   What is more likely is that she is feeling uncomfortable about how things ended between you or feels badly about things that were said and is trying to offload those feelings onto you.   You will see this pattern over and over again here in most of our stories.

pwBPD struggle to accept responsibility for their actions,  they believe if they make a mistake they are a mistake, not worthy to live, doomed.   to offload those feelings they need you to be the bad guy, make the mistake, accept the responsibility.   in very fraught situations they will rachet up the level of crazy making until your ability to cope fails and you do something uncharacteristic to which they can point too.   'See I am not crazy, you are crazy look what you did'.

This is a very difficult dynamic.   She is not as detached as she declares herself to be, hence the contact.   She could be using some maladaptive coping techniques to get her needs met.  She could be making herself feel better about herself by using you as a scapegoat.   This can become abusive.

What kind of support do you have around you?   Do you have family and friends that you can lean on right now?   How about professional help?   When I was involved with my person with BPD it was very helpful for me to have trained mental health professionals in my corner, whose job it was to advocate for me and support me.  They were real lifesavers.

Do you want to continue the conversation with her?

[George23]

Hello Ducks, it did upset me. She seemed very cold and I felt I was getting the blame for everything our friendship is over because of me! What I've said is unforgivable etc ... .  I desperately wanted to logically talk to her but resisted the temptation and just followed the I understand/ feel route instead, by doing that I felt like I was accepting that it was my fault and that she was blameless which was very frustrating.

She says she's got her new life I don't know if she will ever talk to me again and the only things I do know for sure is that she has a new flat and job to what extent she has a new relationship I don't know, she told me last October she was in a committed relationship with a guy who turned out to be someone she once worked with and was nothing of the sort.
I think what makes this whole thing complicated I think and so does our friend that she loves me but just can't deal with the emotion of it all and what that means to her life.

Some of my friends who don't know her question why I've put up with her for so long, my friends that know her I think feel frustrated that we can't sort it out between us. But even they are now saying to me just walk away.

If I walk away I feel I've failed, I promised I'd never turn my back on her , I feel I just confirm everything she feels about herself

Got to go to my graduation this Friday, I will see her, it feels me with dread

[babyducks]

Hi George

by doing that I felt like I was accepting that it was my fault and that she was blameless which was very frustrating.

I get it.   I know just how horrible it feels, how soul destroying it is to deal with the shame and blame that flies around in these relationships.  Please understand you are interacting with some one who is incapable of having a healthy intimate interpersonal relationship.   People with this disorder deal with life by blame shifting, projection and raging.   This is a serious mental illness.   For me dealing with the constant blame shifting and guilt projection was damaging.    I lean towards being depressive most of the time and the constant distain eroded my fragile feelings of self worth.

Acknowledging her feelings does not mean you agree with them.   And it doesn't mean she is 'right' and you are 'wrong'.    Feelings do not equal facts.   She feels the victim.   I suspect she feels the victim about most things in life.   Famously my pwBPD often felt victimized by the weather.    If only it wasn't a snow storm we could go out to dinner.   And if we could go out to dinner she would feel better.

I think what makes this whole thing complicated

Complicated is a good word.    There is a lot going on here that typically isn't found in normal/non relationships.   Whatever those are.       It is a good thing to think carefully about what does this all mean.  What you are seeing already is that friends are having a hard time understanding and supporting your relationship.   That will likely continue as BPD relationships are high conflict relationships,  there will always be highly intense emotions and you will spend a lot of time managing that.   It can be done and there are reasons to try.   Recognizing the effort it takes is important. 

If I walk away I feel I've failed, I promised I'd never turn my back on her , I feel I just confirm everything she feels about herself

I understand.   That is a hard feeling to grapple with.   I've been there too.   If you focus only  on her feelings and reactions you will lose yourself.  Her needs will become the most important things in the relationship and your needs and values will take second place.   If your value is to not abandon her than finding boundaries that protect you would be a good idea.   It's up to her to deal with her emotions while you respond to yours.   

Got to go to my graduation this Friday, I will see her, it feels me with dread

I'm sorry.   Your graduation should be a day of joy and pride at your accomplishment.   You should be able to go and enjoy a day that will stay with you for a long time.   I find it often feels emotionally dangerous to be in the proximity of my pwBPD, when it feels like that I take steps to make sure I am in the best possible head space and work on making myself comfortable.

Congratulations on your achievement.   

'ducks

[George23]

Hello Ducks

I'm starting to come to terms with how any type of relationship with my pwBPD will be. After two weeks of silence then some brief contact, she was back messaging me again but very late at night I didn't return anything until the next day, she sent me playful emojis until the evening when she asked whether I was going to graduation then telling me stuff she had already told me weeks ago and then having a pop at what I had said to her when we last argued. She said something that she knew would get a reaction from me, I didn't react I just said I can see why you would say that it may have made you feel uncomfortable ... .
She wants me to go to graduation her words were we supported each other through so much we need to finish it together,
 this is the women who two weeks ago cut all contact for ever, she tried to be nice but then had to stick the knife in.

I know what she is like, but I'm still grappling with walking away or not

[babyducks]

Hi George

She wants me to go to graduation her words were we supported each other through so much we need to finish it together,  this is the women who two weeks ago cut all contact for ever, she tried to be nice but then had to stick the knife in.

Yes.   That is pwBPD do.   

There is a great thread over on the improving board that has some wonderful insights in it.   It's title is breaking the cycle - extinctions bursts  Here is the link:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300277.30

It a nice illustration of mixing boundaries and validation.   She treated you poorly.  You became frustrated and spoke harshly to her.   You don't feel comfortable with the relationship because of the confusion within it.

Grey Kitty said something in the thread I linked you too.  GK said figuring out what you are responsible for will give you a lot more peace.   Grey is correct.

It's your graduation.   You can take her expressed feelings into account.   It's still your graduation.  Go.  Go with her.   Go spend 30 minutes with her and than excuse yourself with other plans.   You have options.

Would it help to write out here, a list of what you are grappling with?   This is an anonymous site and sometimes the process of writing things out brings clarity.

'ducks

[George23]

My pwBPD text me the night before graduation with , Please come tomorrow, fresh start , ok I've tried , really hard.

Then the morning of the graduation I text back im going, Ill make my own way there.
then i got aload of messages from her along the lines of shes glad I,m going we can all be happy , would I like her to keep her distance or is she allowed to say hi!
Then came the I think you were going all along and just said that I wasn't, I felt so bad for you, ... .even offered to drop out so you could go, I spent all day yesterday trying to sort out a lift for you, I'm just to nice for my own good.

At graduation I acknowledged she was there, she was desperate to talk to me she followed me around the place most of the time.  but she was followed by someone I have absolutely no time for, he shouldn't have even been at the Graduation
It's an awfully long story but he had a position of power which he abused and had it been up to me I would of reported him to our governing body, he made it very difficult for my pwBPD bordered on sexual harassment.

I didnt really spend any time with her, our group of friends wanted a photo together, my pwBPD looked straight at me smiled and said please, I couldnt say no.

Graduation was ok in my heart of hearts I wish I could of celebrated with her properly.

Now the things I grapple with

I love my BPD very much, we had loads of fun when we were together and laughed so much.

She makes such terrible choices, the biggest with this guy who made her life a misery but she still engages with him, because as she says " he likes me I need to keep him because of all the people who hate me" people don't hate her!

I don't understand why she spends time with him after everything and she is supposed to have a new relationship which she is very happy about which makes her life perfect!

I'm still angry with her

and tired of her behaviour

she behaves so badly towards me sends me messages like we dont have to see each other again with a smily face, doesnt speak to me for nearly three weeks then shes trying to sort out lifts for me the everything is supposed to be ok and a new start

I sway backwards and forwards between loving her and wanting to stick around to leaving her behind for good


I would like to sit down and talk to her but still feel very emotional about everything

what gets me the most ... .I know everyday she struggles

[babyducks]

Hi George,

Congratulations on your graduation.   That is an accomplishment that will mean something for years and years.   

Then the morning of the graduation I text back im going, Ill make my own way there.
then i got aload of messages from her along the lines of shes glad I,m going we can all be happy , would I like her to keep her distance or is she allowed to say hi!
Then came the I think you were going all along and just said that I wasn't, I felt so bad for you, ... .even offered to drop out so you could go, I spent all day yesterday trying to sort out a lift for you, I'm just to nice for my own good

Wow.  Look at all that drama and with out any involvement from you.   She did that all by herself.   Highly intense emotions.   You realize that was all about her right?   I know it is hard to not take this stuff personally.   A lot of us end up stuck in the mindset of, if I had said this better or if I said this different or, or, or.   I say this so much it should be my tag line at the end of my posts.  pwBPD process life differently than you and I.   They have intense feelings and the need to 'explain' them by external events.   the lengths my pwBPD would go to explain her feelings was mind blowing for it's lack of logic and the depths of it's complexity.

I know you love your person very much.    Its interesting how we end up with people who are disordered in this way.   We can spend a lot of time getting to the bottom of why we are attracted.  To intellectually understand that because of our damaged family of origin we are drawn to the idealization phase.   To work through the psychological complexities of a trauma bond and how the intermittent reinforcement of push/pull conditions  draw people closer to their abuser.   To become members of this self help group and learn about the mental illness of BPD and how it impacts us and our loved ones.

I think what is harder to understand and appreciate is the depth of our ability to love.  In the face of significant challenges our feelings are undeniable.  Steady, true and deep.    It would be extremely convenient to say 'I don't love you anymore'.   Some of us get there and fall out of love.  Some use their anger as a spring board to end the bond.   I believe some of this is out of our control and fate and life will take us where we end up.   Where we end up will never be a perfect place.

My experience with my partner was both the best thing in my life and the worst thing in my life.   If I look at it from just the right angle.  and I have to twist my head quite a bit to look at it from this angle, she was the best thing that ever happened to me.  she gave me the gift of being fully me.   she inspired me, sometimes through pure desperation, to be the best me I could be.  to grow and learn and nurture my spirituality and my connections with others.  She was also the most difficult thing that has passed through my life, and that is saying a lot.   There were elements of violence in my r/s, there were elements of stalking in my r/s.  There was a lot of crazy behavior from both of us.    To have the good times you have to also accept the bad times.   It's a package.   

I don't regret it.   I've come out the other side a totally different person.   I've learned more than I could begin to write here.   I am also more wounded than I thought I could ever be.   

I saw her Friday night.   She is struggling but more stable than I have seen her in a while.    Which is a good thing.   She went through a long period of improving with her mental health issues and then very abruptly she had a very difficult episode.  It was a mixed blessing to see her with  most of her facilities intact.   It was nice to see her and not have it rip open some of my wounds.   

Being undecided is not a good place to linger.   If you remain undecided for a long time she is in control of the direction of the relationship and that's not typically wise.   If you decide to stay in some form of contact with her, doing so with the understanding that she has the traits of a serious mental disorder you will need to remake parts of your life,   I would never suggest that some one try to go this alone, with out the help and support of people who understand.   For me, I needed some one to whom I could say, my partner is having a maniac episode and her impulse control is gone, I had my own psychologist to counsel and advocate for me.   For me, I needed some one to whom I could say there is a real tragedy playing out here,  she is trying her very best to get better and both succeeding and failing, why is G-d allowing this to happen.    For me I needed to be able to say to people here, my partner is again trying to change her feelings by changing me and have them understand.

Every relationship requires compromise, changes, work.   Which ever direction you pick,  throw your whole heart into it.  Improving the relationship or detaching from the relationship, give it everything you got.   Be honest,   Be uncompromising.   Be human.   Don't be afraid.  Pour your energy and spirit into it.   And you will be rewarded.   maybe not with what you want but with good things never the less.

'ducks

[George23]

What you say makes a lot of sense to me and mirrors some of the complexities of my pwBPD.  Regardless of what she throws at me I never turned my back and I certainly didnt just stop loving.

What has happened between us is so hurtful, I find myself checking my phone all the time with the hope that she has had a normal logical thought and has realised that the way she has behaved is not normal and she wants to do something about it.  I'm more aware now than I've ever been that the drama is about her, her logic is mind blowingly illogical and that frustrates me so much it actually makes me angry now, she's an intelligent women but at times makes no sense at all.  Worst of all though I always believed her, but now I don't know what to believe, I don't think I trust her anymore.  She has said so many things in the past that have been a fabrication or the bending of the truth.

She gives the impression that everything is fine but she was very on edge at graduation, looked stressed and tired for all her rhetoric about how she has a new job new flat new relationship and that she is happy, I dont want her to be I want her to be in as much pain as I am, and I feel awful about that because thats not me.

For the first time in three weeks she sent me a nice message after graduation with a kiss on the end, I notice today that she has blocked me again on social media. so for all her please come to graduation and new start messages she goes and does that again!

Just when I think Im starting to understand and getting to grips with everything, I go from I can do this just get in touch and go for a coffee to just thinking stuff it life is too short walk away.

The other thing that I grapple with is if she really is in a new relationship can I deal with that, to be honest I don't think I can