oh dear, what now?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

. hmmmmm, agreed: e!

. this link won't connect, when i click on it

[icky]

. hmmmmm, agreed: e!

. this link won't connect, when i click on it

[icky]

re your previous post, it sounds like she's dysregulating so badly she's having psychotic symptoms (total loss of reality/ paranoia). i would wait to see what happens. anyone's brain can be affected by psychosis - it's part of the spectrum of human experience, so she's not alone with that and it's possible to recover from it adequately. but she obviously has more/ deeper issues than you realised. i don't know if you are religious at all and can pray for her, or if you are not religious, like me, maybe you can do the equivalent - hope/ wish for that the universe will have positive experiences, help, safety, caring, whatever she needs in life. whatever it is she needs from the universe, it seems she needs to keep looking for it. you gave her everything you had and i am certain that has helped her and she will look back on it one day, knowing in her heart of hearts that you cared for her when she was in a very fragile, hurt, vulnerable space and she couldn't accept the help you were offering. i hope one day, when she is feeling better, she will pass on the help you gave her to someone else who is in need. sometimes that is the only blessing we can all give one another - provide the help we are able to, as we all go through this bumpy, confusing, often painful life journey. i will join you in hoping/ wishing that she finds the peace she craves and that you find new avenues of joy and connection on your life journey too.

[Renard]

hmmmmm,

Thanks for writing. The link in my previous is something I don't understand, but it's probably because I wrote a euphemism for poop in reply to you (I think the forum filtered it out, even though it was spelled differently than another word for poop).

I'm not exactly religious but I have been praying to what I will call infinite love for my ex. You say good things. I am in need of such comfort and understanding that I have come to this forum, but I confess I am a bit uncomfortable putting all of my ex's behaviour into the category of the disorder. If so, then, all of her goodness and not so goodness are all woven together into the most wonderful person I have ever known. I believe her goodness will win out, so your words about prayer and hope for her are strong ones. I do want the best for her. It grieves me so deeply that we can't have life together, but I do want her to have life. She is so good and so wonderful, even in all that ails her.

I know some may say that I'm stuck in my idealization, but that's not exactly the case. I just don't think it befits me to go on and on about her imperfections because I love her too much to cast her as black. I think that's the difference between me (if I'm kind of sort of normal) and her. I can see and deal with all the ambiguity and greyness of life. She--right now--has things cast into strict categories of black and white. I still believe in her and all the goodness within her. She has called the best out of me and I want to stay that good man, even if she has turned away from me as a result of the disorder just now (and maybe for keeps).

She is definitely in some psychosis, and I have definitely hit the place where I am no longer her helper and lover and partner and man. It breaks me to say that, but I risked all and given all to her. Any decent person who does that has to accept the possibility that all can be lost as well. She deserves that from me: an acknowledgement that even though she always said she would love me forever no matter what, she has hit that which she cannot master just now. I know her to be masterful so I will let her turn all her strength to finding a way forward without me. I will keep praying always to infinite love for her.

[icky]

that's beautiful : ). i agree that as humans, we are ALL flawed, so there's no point in turning someone with BPD into a monster or someone with just negative traits and no positive traits. sometimes, to recover from the pain in the relationship, we may need to focus on the negative traits for a while, because it helps us move on. i think what you write sounds great. i too feel like my BPD relationship has been a deep learning experience for me, how ever it turns out. in many ways it has made me wiser, stronger and better, too. i wonder where we will all be standing in a year's time from now? you, me, my (ex?) partner, your (ex?) partner. life is certainly not boring, is it?   : ). stay as strong and compassionate as you can be. and be compassionate with yourself when you don't live up to your high expectations. thanks for sharing your journey - it's really good to know we're not alone in this

[icky]

i watched the video at the bottom of this page yesterday:. https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy. i thought it was a beautiful, strong story of someone helping their mentally ill brother. i think you might like it, because it is very compassionate

[icky]

progress update: i have now completed the first (and simplest) task (of 4) work tasks i took home for the weekend. and it's now 7 hours to go til i can expect an email reply from my BPD (ex?)partner. sigh.

[Renard]

hmmmmm, thanks for writing again. Coping is such a funny thing. I have a briefcase of work I brought home, but I can't quite get to it just now. I am thinking of a long walk instead to allow myself to think and maybe to shed a tear or two.

I will watch the video, but I confess I need only a tear or two right now. I am worried if I see it that I will begin crying all that is in me and never quit. I made an appointment to see a counsellor tomorrow, so I am living in many ways for a safe and good place to talk out all that has happened and to find ways to heal.

[icky]

. definitely do what feels right and safe : ). you sound like you have good instincts there. enjoy your walk!

[Renard]

hmmmmm,

I think the others who have written to me on this forum are giving me good counsel in what is a time of crisis. In effect, they say remember the disorder is the brutal fact and that I need to care for myself and ascribe all to the disorder and keep myself safe.

True enough, but what I wrote earlier to you is still the ultimate truth. I love my ex. I cannot stop doing so because she has the disorder. I may need to love her from afar, however. If that is the case, then, I need to do so. Again, she deserves that if my love is really love.

[icky]

yeah, i think there's two schools of thought on this forum. 1) a relationship with someone with BPD is impossible. 2) a relationship with someone with BPD is possible. i assume people who predominantly think 1) have had experiences with people with very extreme BPD and/ or have had too little support/ coping skills to deal with the relationsip, or simply think it's unhealthy/ not useful to have a relationship with someone with BPD. i guess people who think 2) have had experiences with people with milder forms of BPD and have had support and/ or coping skills to help them deal with it. i doubt there is one "right" answer - it's a completely individual decision - and maybe whether we choose 1) or 2) we will never know if we made the right choice. if we choose no relationship, we will never be sure if it maybe would have been possible. if we choose a relationship, we will maybe always wonder whether it was a good idea/ worth it. have you read the "success stories" here? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=113820.0. i think it's important to both remember that success is possible while also making sure not to have "false hope" or to stay in patterns of abuse due to false hope. no easy answers!  .

[icky]

ugh. five hours to go til i can expect a response. at the moment, i feel like i can't trust who he is anymore. the past 6 months have been too trust-damaging. i have no idea what kind of a response to expect. i have no idea whether i'll believe what he says

[Renard]

hmmmmm,

Back from a long walk that helped a bit. Thanks for your comments about the two schools of thought. I do think I land in the second category, but I fear I will never have a chance to find out now. I also agree that there are no easy answers.

The success stories are ones I'll read: thank for passing them along.

hmmmmm, hang in there: you will have more information one way or another soon. That's probably not much comfort but everything seems to unfold one small step at a time in such situations.

I hope you do not have that horrible knot in your belly that I feel so often now. May you breathe and find some peace.

[icky]

oh, breathing. good reminder : ). i wasn't really doing that properly (very shallow, anxious breathing). i feel like today i will find out whether i am losing/ have lost my partner to BPD. i know that's putting too much emphasis on this one conversation. but i've spent the last six months wondering whether i had lost him. it's hard to feel genuinely patient for even longer. i'm worried he's going to continue to do the "nothing's wrong" thing. pretending that everything's fine and he has no problems and pretending that i must be weird to find (his BPD) stuff upsetting. i think if that happens, i can offer him a friendship, but i don't know if i can offer him a relationship. in a friendship, there's more boundaries, so i could protect myself better. in a relationship, there's fewer boundaries so i would need to be able to trust him more to take responsibility for his behaviour. now i'm starting to pray: please let his BPD be really mild. (4 hours til i can expect a reply)

[icky]

so much trust has been damaged on both sides. he damaged my trust with his BPD behaviour. i damaged his trust with my poor reactions to his BPD behaviour. : (

[Renard]

hmmmmm, I send my prayers to you and to your partner. I feel something very similar. If my ex did contact me then I would need forgiveness for not having been better to her when she was in crisis, but I would need to forgive her for lies, for anger, for transferring her love (or needs or affection?) elsewhere.

a word: courage

[Renard]

hmmmmm, please do breathe and know that whatever happens today there will a tomorrow and a tomorrow and a tomorrow and many more: you will not be in the same you are now

[Renard]

hmmmmm, in the same place, that is (my bad on the missing word)

[icky]

: ). yeah. it's funny how central he has become to my life (and heart). that makes it all seem so much more important than it objectively is.

[Renard]

hmmmmm,

It's funny: I was just thinking I never had any right to her love. It was given as some sort of amazing gift. Knowing I had no right to makes it bit easier to find my way through this anguish and torment. I lost a great gift, but it was never mine to own. It's hard to think that she no longer wants the gift I returned to her. That's the hardest part: I want to love her back, but know that door is simply not open any longer.

[Renard]

Even if her love is/was in some large part the disorder it was human. I think all human love is imperfect, and her imperfect care and affection and love were marvellous. I hope she does not harm others with them, but part of letting her go and part of wisdom lies with knowing that love and life are always filled with difficulty as well as such goodness. I sound a bit like I'm lost in platitudes and bromides but that's simply where I find myself.

[icky]

. : )

[icky]

i'm going round in stupid, anxious, painful circles. wondering whether this relationship was already over 6 months ago, when the BPD stuff started (and i just didn't realise it). or wondering whether this relationship was already over/ doomed the minute it began (and i just didn't realise it). all just attempts to prepare and protect myself for the pain that may be in today's discussion. i worry too, that he will actually say good things (not denying his issues, etc) and that i won't actually believe him. that i'll think it's the BPD talking and he's just saying "whatever" to get me to stop talking about this stuff. (3 hours to go)

[Renard]

hmmmmm, one thing for sure, these relationships are confusing. Can you find a way to keep breathing?

This forum has some good things to say about what to do and what not to do, perhaps there's some counsel there for you?

[icky]

yeah : ). i've looked at the resources on this forum about "how to" approach those kind of conversations. what i'm not sure about is whether to proceed with this relationship - and in the end there are no resources out there to tell me that : ). at the moment, i'm feeling anxious/ scared as to what my (ex?)partner will write. that does not feel very healthy  : /

[icky]

it's sweet of you to be concerned - but you truly don't need to be currently. i'm just tense/ emotional/ anxious about this dumb conversation. and i'm blurting my feelings of stress out here, as a way to get rid of them . : ). don't take my current ramblings too seriously - i'm bound to have several more loops of hope/ anxiety/ pessimism/ sadness before i get an email from him. sigh. gosh i hope that i look back on this one day and giggle. either with him or on my own. this stuff is so ridiculous! : )

[Renard]

hmmmmm, agreed: there are no resources that will make your decisions for you.

[Renard]

hmmmmm, again, agreed--it helps to blurt things out, even if they are loops within loops

[patientandclear]

yeah : )

i've looked at the resources on this forum about "how to" approach those kind of conversations

what i'm not sure about is whether to proceed with this relationship - and in the end there are no resources out there to tell me that : )

at the moment, i'm feeling anxious/ scared as to what my (ex?)partner will write.
that does not feel very healthy  : /

Yes, this is what first gave me pause about continuing.  At first, what was so wonderful about our relationship for me was this feeling of safety.  When I could feel that I was starting to worry about how I was being perceived and how he would respond, rather than having confidence that that would be OK, I could feel it start to erode something important in me, and also, fundamentally change the nature of the relationship into one where he decided how we would be, and I hoped and accepted.  So different from how it began.  I would never have knowingly chosen such a dynamic.

Yes, had I known it was BPD, I might have been less hurt, could have let it roll off, it might have mattered less.  However, where are we, by the time we've managed to accord little or no significance to things our partners tell us about how they feel?  My need to respect him is at odds with that.  So confusing.

Also want to affirm something you wrote about about the likelihood that he will not end things or repudiate you but instead say good things that don't resolve your concerns.  I believe most people with BPD will continue with someone who is a strong attachment who is positive and kind and affirming toward them, so long as that person is willing to accept the basic dynamics that have been in play.

No point in speculating as you will soon have a clearer picture of how it's going to be just now.  Good luck 

[icky]

renard      : )    thanks

[icky]

. When I could feel that I was starting to worry about how I was being perceived and how he would respond, rather than having confidence that that would be OK, I could feel it start to erode something important in me, and also, fundamentally change the nature of the relationship into one where he decided how we would be, and I hoped and accepted.  So different from how it began.  I would never have knowingly chosen such a dynamic.

. yup. it's turned into the kind of relationship i would never, ever, ever willingly go into. and i had next to no respect left for him, these past months. thank you : ).