Standing up for myself

[formflier]

Likely in the big scheme of things the "best" approach would have been to validate and try to steer my wife in right direction.

Here is what I actually did.

She was super interested (for some reason) in being involved in S16 appointment to doctor tomorrow.  She wanted to change it to today... .since S16 is home sick.  Apparently... .

She floated the idea to me (via a phone call) and when I seemed open to it... she said she would call and "handle the details"... .and quickly hung up.

Call back and tells me that he is scheduled at 1 today.   I let her know I had existing appointment for me and that wouldn't work.

She offered to have her Mom take him... .and then says/asks... ."So... .why is he going to the doctor... what are they going to be doing?"  (she really had no idea... apparently).

I explained the allergy testing as it might relate to his Asthma treatment and said I would rather have a parent there... .since the advice we are given will impact treatment decisions.  Also I said it may not be best to have him tested when he is already sick...

Wife "instructed" me to call back and handle it... .I asked if appointment had already been moved... .or if she had "just asked"... and she said it had already been moved... .

I called back... asked some questions and quickly figured out they didn't want to see him when he was feeling bad.  I moved appointment back to tomorrow and let them know I would call if he was still feeling bad.

I sent a text to my wife outlining the update

Me: they have other times but S16 is iffy... .I'll check with him later but my guess is that tomorrow will be better... .unless he gets worse today 7:30 AM

Me: thanks for thinking of options to miss less school... .7:31 AM

She calls a bit later and starts "interrogating me" about my conversation with Dr office.  A time or two I asked for space to be able to answer questions.

She grabbed snippets of what I said and started "accusing" me of NOT saying certain things to Dr. office.

Basically that she said S16 was ok to go and I said he was sick.

Well... .after a minute of not being allowed to speak... .I had enough of it.

"Hey... .I need time to be able to explain the conversation, if you are interested.  I'm getting frustrated with the overtalk.  I'm going to go before I say something I regret"

And I hung up...

Not planning on bringing up the conversation again... .if she brings it up... .I'll attempt to validate first.


FF

[Notwendy]

I think it is good that you disengaged from the conversation.

It seems that these small incidents ( kids going to doctor, church dinner) seem to take on conflict between you. In actuality they are no big deal. Child goes to doctor today or tomorrow, you go to church dinner or not. The world isn't going to stop spinning around the sun based on these kinds of decisions.

So wife changed appt, and that is a bad time for you. You said so. Good.

Then comes some kitchen sinking- drama- and opinion.

Should he be allergy tested when he is sick already?

Good question- but ask the doctor office what their opinion is- they know what they want to do.

Why is wife so interested in going? Does she know why son has appt? - that is mind reading, second guessing what she is thinking. Nobody knows that.

This is good FF. Previously I could see this turning into a circular argument that you broke the pattern from.

But your wife had good intentions- changing appts because it would help him not miss school. You stated it was not a good time for you. She offered a solution, that her mother take him.

While your points are valid, this undid her solution. Now, she is in the bind, he has doctor appt, nobody to go with him.

Now we are in the control zone- your way or her way. It isn't about the child going to the doctor or not. Now it is into the your way or her way conflict, and the "I think he shouldn't be tested sick" ( am right) and "I don't want him to miss school by going tomorrow" ( I am right) and on to the circular argument.

If the goal was to mutually agree on when/how/who should take child to doctor then the questions could be answered differently.

First, call the office to ask what their policy is on allergy testing a mildly sick child. They are the professionals - you are not.

That actually determines the choice. If they say no, he doesn't go today. If they say yes, then some compromise needs to take place.

Is it in the kid's best interest to not miss school and let grandma take him, or to miss school today and part of tomorrow so you can take him?

Being a mom, I side with not missing school and not having all that work to make up. The grandma taking him isn't ideal, but I know that I can call the nurse later at the office and get an explanation. Also, many offices are on computer records now and send patients home with written instructions. You can even get the records. Also, although 16 isn't a full adult ,many 16 year olds are able to discuss their own allergy care- he has to manage at school and also at college.

I think the thing is to decide when the conversation is about something else and when it becomes a personal battle. Not about the child anymore. 

[Sunfl0wer]

Sounds like something simple got complex?

I have some "rules" for myself.
Not gonna call them boundaries, just really my own structure for decision making for me to be easier.

Rule #1: When someone is acting like a non urgent issue is urgent or is otherwise anxious and trying to "pin me down" somehow... .I have trained myself to respond wiggly/un-pinnable with following verbage: I will need to get back to you.. (This can be after 5 mins of thought, or days)
(The idea is to allow me room to sort out MY own feelings from their projections of "urgency" on me.  To prevent me from reacting in any direction. Also, people acting "urgent" when no urgency exists, when given space, sometimes redirect their "urgency" elsewhere leaving original "problem" to no longer exist... .as they look for another way to meet emotional "urgency" "need."
Likely tho, with so many family moving parts, a bit hard to keep saying "I'll get back to you."

Rule #2: Never allow someone to schedule something that is dependent on another person, (as a "general" rule, with some flexibility.) However, especially in the case of dealing with a difficult or controlling personality.

So If a friend wants help scheduling an appointment.  I will NOT do it for them, if I am not the one driving them. Reason is, cause when person didn't keep their appt, they were mad at ME for scheduling it in a way they claimed was my fault they did not attend.  I WILL, however, hand them the phone, speak to the appointment person, then hand phone back to them to actually make the appointment time and day.  I will even hold open their calendar and point to conflicts and such, but in the end... .They will have ownership of setting that appointment.

So I am not sure if there was a misunderstanding between you two... . Or if FFw originally was going to drive him to the appointment... . But seems inherent that if you knew you were going to drive him all along, and also knew you had a schedule conflict that day... .that you maybe would have been best to not agree to her changing the appointment?

Humm, maybe I am misunderstanding... .
My guess is you acted "in reaction"
Meant well by wanting her to feel involved
But didn't yourself think through that he was sick, therefore appt today not best option, and other conflict.

Maybe I am not grasping something tho.

Seems like you accidentally trapped yourself in having to call her out on being WRONG! Yikes!
(As she ran off scheduling allergy test while he sick, while you have conflict of schedule, and her trying to regain "not wrong" footing by offering her parents to take him, seems lame, oops!)

[Notwendy]

Either way- to go today with Grandma or tomorrow with you isn't a major decision that has great impact on your child. Either option has pros and cons ( going with grandma, missing school, being seen when sick).

Some of your arguments end up over the kids in some way. Each of you maintains your way is the best way for the child.

Is there some solution that doesn't require the wisdom of King Solomon to decide what is best for your son? One is to defer, the other is to uphold your decision. But neither is win win.

[MaybeSo]

I will not comment on the details of the context of convo... .and just say the pattern over all is that when there is a change in the plan, it stimulates anxiety for both of you and that anxiety often gets converted into a power struggle. That is a clear pattern with you guys.  

 In terms of how you handled the convo where you felt peppered with machine gun fire questions ... .

I think your approach was perfect.  I like that it is focused on YOU, not her.  

I don't think you need to steer her in the right direction (not sure what that means exactly but it sounds like trying to control someone else which usually backfires... .I have a picture of one of those sheep hearding dogs that run along side sheep and nip at them to keep them going in the right direction ) ... .I think your focus on taking care of yourself in a non-dramatic manner is perfect and is all that is needed.  

We validate when someone shares a piece of their inner world that makes sense to them ... .but we don't have to engage in every conversation no matter what... .you get to have your own boundaries and validate yourself.   She was peppering you with questions (her own anxiety/nervous energy)  and it wasn't working for you (you were noticing your own arrousal going up)  so you took care of yourself and ended it before it got ugly... .perfect.

If she brings it up... .I'd keep the focus on your process.


If she say's it hurts her feelings or whatever that you ended the convo... .you can validate THAT... .(I understand it hurts your feelings... .that makes sense... . "but I will end a convo like that because it's my job to take care of myself and manage my temper, and I could feel where it was going inside of me.  I do not respond well when I can't finish a thought or a sentence. "  

(btw my partner is exactly like that... .if I want to keep him in a convo... .I have to slow down and not interrupt)

There are things she could try to do to help keep you in a convo if that is her intent... .like slow down her rate of speech... .not interrupt you etc... .so, if she wants to keep you engaged in a convo she can take care of herself by being mindful of those things!   She doesn't HAVE to be mindful of those things... .it's a choice.   There are ways to keep you in a covo... .let her know what those are if she is interested.  

Otherwise, drop it in a friendly manner.  

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh, in terms of the usual better, best, etc... .

"Hey... .I need time to be able to explain the conversation, if you are interested.  I'm getting frustrated with the overtalk.  I'm going to go before I say something I regret"

Maybe better to say:
I need to go because I am having a hard time processing this right now.
Or
I better go, cause I am feeling confused and need to sort that out.

Or something similar.

The "something I regret" comment made me cringe.
Reminded me of the words from a therapist office reliving months later, thrown at you by a therapist, that FF cannot control self and is worried he would do something he would regret. Or something to that affect was uttered, cannot recall exactly.  (Just seems those words got way more shelf life than they deserved!)

But dealing with a paranoid person... .

Um, your words can sound menacing and threatening! Yikes!

[formflier]

Rule #2: Never allow someone to schedule something that is dependent on another person, (as a "general" rule, with some flexibility.) However, especially in the case of dealing with a difficult or controlling personality.
 

Honestly... .this is the one that irked me.  I generally am the scheduler and guy taking them to appointments.  My wife likes to take them, so when it is possible, I set it up that way... .with plenty of time for changes and discussion.

This appointment had been set up for 2-3 weeks.  Both of us were good with it.  I was... and am... .taking him tomorrow at 1pm, unless he is not better from today's sickness.  (He threw up right after he got up to get ready for school... )

I do commend my wife for the attempt at efficiency... .and mentioned that in the text.  Her scheduling things for me rarely works well, even though she has access to calendar... .that apparently wasn't in her scan/thinking this morning.

This is first time she has actually changed an appointment on short notice.  There are other examples of her calling and getting options... follow by us jointly looking at schedule.

I do agree there are many control battles around kids.  Not seeing any solution to this.  When she is around and primary parent... she controls.  When I am around and primary parent... .I control and resist her efforts to insert herself when she is not present.

MaybeSo,

I like the thought about her knowing how to keep me engaged in conversation... .and making a choice.  That fit's nicely with lots of my thinking about making choices for yourself... .and respecting choices your partner makes.

FF

[formflier]

Solid point on the "regret" comments.  Likely a bit "too honest" on my part.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Had another better best etc thought... .

But maybe my verbage is more suited for my personality, female, prone to nervous rambling incessantly at times... .... .

I coulda gotten away with an over the too dram response of self blame, confused my ex into being calm, in face of my planned hysteria which validates him and allows me to be wrong and allows him an exit while saving face... .

When you called doc, realized he should be well for accurate testing... .
Call wife:
WOW! I completely messed up!
All my fault!
I have to tell you about it... .
I should have NEVER said it was ok to change to today!
I Completely neglected the fact he MUST be well, no sickness, no vomitting!
MY FAULT entirely dear!
So sorry I had you spend time rearranging stuff!
Sorry I got you calling them!
I SHOULD HAVE remembered how important that is!
CRUD!
I'll call and fix it!
Thanks for trying to simplify things and all and try getting it so he misses less school, was a good idea!
But I see how I messed this all up now and made it so complicated!
I better go call and fix this and call doc before original time slot gets taken, ttyl!

... .

Ok, that is me being an intentional hysterical girl... .
Maybe not suited for a FF type.
I seriously could ramble that off in less than a min... .really fast.

But maybe something can be gleaned?
(Even if sorta rediculous.)

If not, leave it, of course, !

[formflier]

 

 

Love it!

FF

[BowlOfPetunias]

God, I hate those "you call the doctor" and "why didn't you say this" arguments.

A few years ago, my wife was upset about the color of our daughter's vomit.  She wanted to go to the closest ER, but also wanted to call another ER for advice.  Knowing that I would be criticized for not handling the call right, I said I wanted to drive and she could call.  She insisted on driving.  While i was on the phone, she got upset with another driver (who did pass her on the left at a red light) and started criticizing me for not reacting strongly enough to the other drive when I was on the phone with the hospital!  Then came the criticism of what I didn't say right.  Once she went in to see a nurse at the ER, I figured I should stop calling the other hospital.  That, of course, was wrong!  I should have continued asking them for advice, even though they could not see her and this nurse could!

Following a similar pattern, she criticized the sex talk I gave our son.  It was too biological and scientific.  (Evolution creates a strong drive for sex.  Sometimes that sexuality leads to reproduction--species that reproduce survive, those that don't reproduce go extinct--but, as humans, it does not have to lead to reproduction and can manifest itself in ways that do not lead to pregnancy--contraception, oral sex, etc.  But even in those cases, the reasons that it feels good have their origin in sexual reproduction.  That is the reason you are having these feelings and urges and they are normal.  Now let's talk about problems and consequences--pregnancy, diseases, coercion, jail for statutory rape, etc.  Given  our son's poor judgement and impulse control, I wanted to emphasize the consequences and the obligation he has to treat other people ethically.  Consent was a big part of it.  I saw the most import part of this--and really an extremely important part for any boy--emphasizing that he needs to listen to his partner regardless of gender, but men often pressure women, be able to take no for an answer, and, above all, not press someone to have sex if she or he does not want to do so.  I specifically included male partners because he has indicated that he may be bisexual.)  Apparently, I should have emphasized the romantic component.

[Notwendy]

Petunias - I think you did that well. Showing acceptance for your child's orientation, that you love him unconditionally, is a precious gift.

You can both have "the talk". You don't both have to have the same opinion. But I think the same gender talk- Dad to son, or mother to daughter, is one where the child may feel more comfortable speaking to someone who has the same body parts, the same thing happening to them.

I know that a "period" talk with a girl  could be awkward with a father, and I don't have guy parts to relate to. I don't think I could have done this the way a father would. Your wife may want her way, but you are his Dad and your input is important.

[formflier]

Yeah... .in our family... .we try to keep "the talk" to same sex for details.  We also try to bring the subject up regularly... .but not on a schedule... .so it is less awkward, more of a normal thing.

I did take my daughter out to "celebrate" her becoming a woman (starting her period), but this was after Mom had talk with her... .and sort of set the stage.

What a minefield.


FF