Bf's son wants to live w/us, afraid of shtstorm to follow from udxBPD

[locaocho]

My BF's son, who is 14, wants to come live with us. Currently they have joint custody, with him physically at her place more often, but he doesn't feel safe at his mother's (she has threatened to kill herself in front of him, e.g.). We are talking with our lawyer and will move forward to modify the custody, but until then, what to do? The son asked us for advice on how to tell his mom he wants to live with us immediately. He's supposed to go back to her tomorrow after a few days with us,  but he wants to tell her he doesn't want to go back. We really didn't know what to say other than to expect that it would be a very difficult conversation and that he can only control his own reactions, not hers, and to expect that the conversation will go badly.

She will ask why, will rant and rave, and who knows what else. Adding to the mix is that his unstable environment with his mother is causing significant school avoidance (multiple therapists are involved as well as truant officers, guidance counselors, etc.).

Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Or advice? My heart aches for the guy and I feel so helpless.

[ForeverDad]

I think one question that comes to my mind is, Will he stand by his request?  Many children who grow up with one reasonable parent and one unreasonable parent have a hard time making an informed observation, coming to valid conclusions and sticking to it despite the demands of the unreasonable parent.

So many children with an overwhelming, controlling parent have difficulties with being a rock on a stormy shoreline or a tree during a windstorm. So is this teen a floating log or a rock, a leaf or a tree?

From the information in the post I wonder, is it that his mother is more acting-in than acting-out?  If so, then that may change how his mother might overreact.

If this is new information then it's possible dad may be able to seek an ex parte case based on son's sense of safety or security.  Ex Parte means that the court could approve the change temporarily without mother's input while the normal course of court processes chugs through the system.  Always consult with your lawyer for local processes and typical outcomes.  However, taking this action could really trigger his mother and things could deteriorate from there.  What does the lawyer think?  Do it quick or try working it out with mother first?  Or could speaking with her alert her to try sabotaging any change, perhaps even deny talking about suicide?

Son is probably of an age to speak what he wants.  (Once he can drive he could even vote with his feet but that's not an optimal solution of course.)  Maybe the unhealthy environment could be what tips the scales?

Back when I was a volunteer in a large organization, there was a sort of truism mentioned sometimes... .It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.  So does dad just tell mother of the change and hope it works or seek legal authorization and perhaps get stuck in the processes and permissions?

Could dad defend any proactive/protective actions as, "Son told me he was fearful spending time with his mother who has mentioned suicidal thoughts, or whatever, and so my first duty was to protect my son while we figure out what to do long term."

For example, after years of living under the terms of a court order, dad may be inclined to say, "It's an order, I have to obey it."  But something has changed.  Sounds like things have to change.  So exactly how he makes changes is the issue at hand.

Also, if son does not already have counseling sessions, that would be good to investigate.  Meanwhile, he can take advantage of the counselors on staff at school.  As professionals, they would be able to provide insight and history to evaluators or court to aid them in doing what is best for the boy.

[soundofmusicgirl]

I would not send him alone to have that conversation with his mother. However if you or your BF are present BPDmom will think you made him say it (which most likely she will think anyway).

But is there a therapist or even the school counselor that could be with him and help mediate that conversation with his mom? I cannot imagine a 14 yr old being able to handle such a difficult conversation by himself. Considering that we as grown adults often fear and try to avoid such conversations with a BPD.

[livednlearned]

Whew, tough situation.

It's brave what he's asking to do, a sign of resilience and that can be gold for a teen who has a BPD parent (threatening suicide in front of him )

He's taking care of himself and at the very least, that can be validated.

Does he need to plan for safety? Like maybe moving his stuff before he tells her?

It may also help to talk to a therapist about how to structure the conversation. He can probably frame it in a way that he is not equipped to help her with suicidal ideation, he's the child and she's the parent. He wants her to get better and this is a way for her to focus on taking care of herself. It's possible a T would also explain how to structure visits so she is reassured he will be spending time with her, just not staying there while she gets help.

And I agree that he may want someone to be there with him. It's hard enough for adults to do this, much less a teen.

So sorry he's going through this. I have S15 and it breaks my heart to think of what our kids have to endure.

[ambivalentmom]

Very difficult, but there is a lot more to think about.  Can he legally choose, is there past recorded incidents of abuse, and is there anyone else S14 can go to (counseling, school, church) to have an unbiased party advocate for him?  I'm worried he will face repercussions, his mom will scream PA, and court will be more difficult.  Maybe just teaching him some of the coping strategies/validating stuff, while you are working to change the order in court?  You will know your situation best.  Good luck and tell us more when you can.   

[ForeverDad]

The decision is yours, though I always try to think of the "what if" scenarios.  Like... .What if no action is taken now except to talk to her by whichever combination of people.  Then she might shut her mouth and stop telling him how she feels inside and then as time passes and his concerns return but at that time there's nothing she's doing that can be termed actionable or concerning enough to the professionals.

The advantage right now, if I may call it that, is that her ideations or musings may be actionable in the here an now but if she shuts up (but still has her issues) then some comments from months in the past won't have any urgency.

So ponder well on this because this may be a valid time to make a change in the parenting schedules and residency that you may not have so clearly in the future.  I'm just saying.  ... .  You're not being 'mean' if there are real issues and you want to deal with them now when it is clear how to handle it rather than later when the situation may not appear as actionable.

Sometimes we get so lost in doing the right thing by the terms of an order that we fail to adequately care for the children's needs as they change rather than err on the side of caution.  It's just the way we are, not a bad quality in itself, good actually, we just have to keep balance and perspective when dealing with these tough quandaries.

Remember too that court shouldn't view any actions now as "blocking" as long as you can articulate and document your concerns, son's concerns and son's wishes.  In my case a decade ago in the months we first came to the court's attention, there was a period of 3 entire months when my then-stbEx blocked all contact, even phone calls, with my preschooler.  Court merely made a new temp order similar to the lapsed one where I was EOW dad again (every other weekend).  Court didn't lecture her, punish her or even give me make up time.  The magistrate literally didn't care to even wag a finger at her in consternation.  So the odds are that the court will recognize you did have at least some basis for action.

For all you know, depending on his mother's level and pattern of disorderedness, she may not even pursue it with police or court.  However, if it means you could then file to stop paying child support since son would be living more time with you and she depends on CS then that could be a trigger for her.  You may have to defend yourself that you didn't do it simply to avoid paying CS.  At the least you probably shouldn't file immediately to reduce or end CS, you'd let the new routine become an established part of history.  IMO - we're peer support, not lawyers here.

[livednlearned]

Courts tend to like it when people present solutions. I wonder if you can sit down with S14 and think through plans for what to do when he is afraid (for her and of her). I remember reading in a book on BPD about how to deal with suicidal ideation. If I'm remembering correctly, the goal is to say in advance, if suicide is attempted or mentioned, I am going to call 911 because I do not have the skills to help you through something like that, and that is the best way to keep you safe. Even though it's not presenting a solution to court, it's the same kind of solutions-oriented thinking that is looked upon with respect, if only because a lot of stuff they see in court is the outcome of people who need court to solve problems. When someone thinks in a solutions-oriented way, it tends to stand out.

I had to do a version of that with S15 when he was 9 and 10 and worried about his dad drinking while he was staying overnight.

Altho, if your S14 is like mine, he may not be anywhere near capable of feeling the kind of emotional strength needed to lay down the law with a BPD parent  

[DreamGirl]

Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Or advice? My heart aches for the guy and I feel so helpless.

Has he voiced any of this with his therapist?

livednlearned's idea of Safety Plan is spot on. The girls mom was in an abusive relationship and they were well equipped when it came to staying safe, calling for help, etc. It actually came into play at one point when he physically assaulted her with the girls in the back seat of her car and she finally got out of the relationship. When they attempted to recycle the relationship (and she dropped the restraining order) - my husband had a firm limit, he wasn't OK with it, and would seek professional help determining if the environment was safe.

I wonder if you could address the situation with "I know mom is struggling, we want her to get help -- how can we help? How can we make sure S14 is safe and mom gets better?"

[woundedheart]

Been there, done that ... .as you can imagine it didn't go well. Ultimately we bought one night of his time the next day she showed up at the school and brought him back to her house as that is what the custody agreement said. So we ended up back in court.

Over a year, but finally the judge listened and we got full custody of him.

It wasn't an easy process and just remember you aren't dealing with someone who can see from the child's view. She is in it to "win it".

Please keep us updated.

[NorthernGirl]

You have lots of good advice here. I have one additional question - do you know if your SS is 'all good' or 'all bad' in his mom's eyes? The reason I ask is that in DH's ex's (uBPD) case, she reacted very differently with each of her children. When the oldest (he was all bad in his mom's eyes) said he wanted to live with DH after the divorce, she hardly reacted. She made him come to her home EOW, for appearance sake, but he just slept there and came back to his Dad's during the day.

However when the middle son (her all good child) said he wanted to live with his Dad more, all h*ll broke lose. She was at DH's home screaming at all of them that if he moved in with his Dad, he would turn out a loser like his father and brother. When he stuck to his guns (temporarily) she was furious. Turned his bedroom into a guest room, phoned at 7 am to demand everything be removed from his 'old' room that day or she would throw it out, etc. He only wanted to increase his time with his Dad but she considered it a huge threat.

Since then (9 years ago) UBPD and the middle son have been in an awful codependent dance. They yell and scream, then make up. She throws him out, then takes him back. He is an addict and she is his enabler.

If in your case this son is her 'favourite' proceed with caution. Get a therapist involved. Make sure the therapist understands BPD.