oh dear, what now? (cont)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

(renard, i hope it's not painful for you, to have me post some positive news about my situation, while you are in pain - please ignore my posts, while you are struggling to cope with the pain of what you've gone through and what you are going through and know that we all know what it's like - it really hurts you to your core).

[icky]

(renard, i hope it's not painful for you, to have me post some positive news about my situation, while you are in pain - please ignore my posts, while you are struggling to cope with the pain of what you've gone through and what you are going through and know that we all know what it's like - it really hurts you to your core).

[icky]

. my partner and i are making beautiful progress at the moment, with gentle baby steps, rebuilding trust, although things are still a bit eggshelly for both of us, of course. all the fear and angst and worry and grieving is starting to ease up and all the tender, caring love is starting to seep back in and to fill our relationship. knowing what patterns to expect now and knowing which gentle-but-firm tools i can use to keep things safe and to keep me from reacting (over)emotionally to any BPD stuff gives me a deep sense of safety and calmness. i know there will be hiccups and setbacks and trials and tribulations and frustrating and challenging phases and i'll no doubt run into BPD challenges that really stump me, but i no longer feel unprepared. i no longer feel lost and overwhelmed . i'm so grateful and relieved and just plain happy that our tender, genuine love has survived this intense 6 month BPD experience. and i'm relieved that even when i identify all the clinging-needy BPD behaviour for what it is, there's still tons and tons and tons of good, real, healthy love in addition to the clingy-needy BPD stuff. (while things had been really rough, i started wondering if he was just clinging onto me as a security blanket, whether i was just being used as a BPD emotional attachment object - i felt quite anxious and even slightly paranoid about that for a while!). so as things return to non-dysregulated, calmer waters, i'm infinitely glad to say that there is plenty of beautiful, healthy love there. i know that during the dysregulated phases, the clingy-needy-BPD-attachment stuff will dominate - but that's okay. i think my partner's BPD is mild enough for us to be able to manage it well, so that we're not spending the bulk / majority of our time in BPD/ dysregulated modes... i think BPD will be something that always affects us - during difficult times massively so - but it will not be what our relationship is about. i feel like his partner (not his carer). i feel like i've gotten to know the most difficult sides of him now - gotten to know his deepest pain, his most scarred and bruised bits - and cos i've struggled so massively and messily in coming to terms with them, he's seen me "at my worst" too. we've come through that, still loving each other to bits. (infinite thanks to this website and to everyone here for their insight, their care, their compassion, their understanding, their sharing - i know i'd have completely failed at dealing with BPD and at loving someone with BPD adequately, without this site and the wonderful, amazing, strong, insightful people here). much love. x.

[Renard]

(renard, i hope it's not painful for you, to have me post some positive news about my situation, while you are in pain - please ignore my posts, while you are struggling to cope with the pain of what you've gone through and what you are going through and know that we all know what it's like - it really hurts you to your core)

hmmmmm, you're very considerate, yet it's wonderful to know you and your partner are mending. I also think that it's incredibly good for everyone on this site to read about good news. Yours is so so so good!
Blessings and all my prayers and good wishes go to you and your partner.

[Renard]

aw, renard, i'm sorry you're feeling terrible

i guess there will be good days and bad days as you go through this - on the good days, you feel strong enough to handle things - on the bad days it can feel overwhelming

is there anything we here can do to help you through this?

feel free to talk about her - about all her good qualities

if you miss her to the point where you think you'll get in touch - maybe you can try getting some advice here as to how to do it in the least damaging manner in terms of her BPD?

thinking of your pain and i hope it eases soon

hmmmmm, that's good counsel: thank you for it. Last night was dark for me. So dark and so painful.

 Somehow I made it, and today feels like things are more manageable.

[icky]

. thinking of you renard. i'm glad feeling in pain has eased up a little for you - it's a relief, when the intensity lessens a little, huh? i have a friend who used to say something really lovely about nightmares... whenever i would have a nightmare and say "ugh, i just woke up from a nightmare that felt really horrible" she would say "it's out now. you dreamed it out of you - now it's no longer in your subconscious". i liked that way of looking at it - that feeling the pain is a way of processing it - and once that particular bit of pain is processed, it is gone, it has been faced, it has been dealt with. yes, of course there will be more painful things to deal with as time moves on - but this particular thing is now a bit more processed. i like this point of view, because it means that feeling the pain is a step in healing - it isn't senseless suffering - but rather, it's valuable work that you are doing and it's contributing to you feeling whole and well again. i hope you can use the weekend to do some comforting things and to recover from the emotional ordeal you went through yesterday - that kind of stuff is exhausting

[icky]

as expected, by taking baby-steps to repair our relationship, my BPD partner and i are bumping into challenges, that need to be addressed. the challenge i am currently facing is this:. as we start spending more time together again, he will no doubt become more demanding and needy, as was the case before we started fighting, because things couldn't go on like that anymore. when he is majorly dysregulating, he basically tells me "you do everything wrong". (which, fair enough, in his logic i guess that's true). when he is in milder BPD patterns, he basically tells me "you don't do . enough". (again,  in his logic, that's true). . during those times, nothing i do is "enough". i don't care about him enough, i'm not gentle enough, i don't pay him enough attention, i don't spend enough time with him, i'm not available enough, and so on and so forth. given that he is feeling (mildly) BPD miserable during these phases, this is said in a whining, reproachful, needy voice. when i didn't know it was BPD, i took him seriously / more or less at face value. my reaction was partly to try and be there even more for him, but partly i also just plain felt pressured, guilt-tripped and whinged at, which actually made me want to spend less time with him, not more... now that i know it's BPD, i want to deal with it more adequately, more successfully, more appropriately. i'm getting the impression there's kinda two approaches (or maybe even two schools of thought?) here. one is a gentle approach of working out what would help him to feel less dysregulated, while also putting in place gentle-but-firm boundaries. the other approach is more "strict" and harsh and focusses more on "not tolerating" the poor behaviour. i'd like to work with the first approach - partly because i care about him and therefore want to opt for the compassionate option - partly because i think it just sounds like the more effective option, because it actively assists him in lowering the degree of his dysregulation. so i'd like to say / do something soothing and reassuring that reminds him that i really love him (whether he's dysregulating or not) and that i love being bonded to him and that i want to deepen that bond and that i want him to feel that bond and to gradually begin to feel more secure in our bond. i'd also like to put in place a gentle-but-firm boundary. not so much a verbal one - (not a drawling-a-line-in-the-sand boundary that i demand that he needs to respect). more an inner boundary that i feel confident and secure in. i don't want to feel rattled when he whinges needily that i don't care enough about him and that i don't spend enough time with him - i don't want to feel pressured by that and then respond negatively. i want to feel an inner warmth and strength that i am helping him develop a deep, secure, loving bond and thereby i am giving him what he needs and i am giving him enough of it. i want to be able to hear "i'm not feeling very well" when he complains "you don't care about me enough" so that i can respond with gentle compassion, instead of with defensiveness and resentment. i guess when he says to me "you don't care about me enough, you don't spend enough time with me" what he's doing is saying "when i was an infant, my parent/ carergiver didn't care about me enough and my parent/ caregiver didn't spend enough time with me". by treating me as his substitute mum during his BPD phases, he is really directing those complaints at his mum/ dad back then - he's just re-creating the situation/ dynamic with me... but in contrast to his parents, i do spend enough time with him and i care about him hugely, so hearing things which are really directed at his parents, said to me instead, gets my defenses and my heckles up. i know it won't be long before this behaviour starts up again, so i really need to set up a strong, kind, warmly loving inner boundary, where his re-enactment behaviour doesn't rattle me .

[Renard]

thinking of you renard

i'm glad feeling in pain has eased up a little for you - it's a relief, when the intensity lessens a little, huh?

i have a friend who used to say something really lovely about nightmares... .

whenever i would have a nightmare and say "ugh, i just woke up from a nightmare that felt really horrible" she would say "it's out now. you dreamed it out of you - now it's no longer in your subconscious"

i liked that way of looking at it - that feeling the pain is a way of processing it - and once that particular bit of pain is processed, it is gone, it has been faced, it has been dealt with

yes, of course there will be more painful things to deal with as time moves on - but this particular thing is now a bit more processed

i like this point of view, because it means that feeling the pain is a step in healing - it isn't senseless suffering - but rather, it's valuable work that you are doing and it's contributing to you feeling whole and well again

i hope you can use the weekend to do some comforting things and to recover from the emotional ordeal you went through yesterday - that kind of stuff is exhausting

hmmmmm, thanks for your message. I have news that I want you and others to know. I got e-mail today from my partner. She remains in the psyc ward, but it is plain she has stabilized a bit. She does not want to talk about the hell of the last two weeks, but she is clear that we can remain friends and conversation partners and that there may be some kind of future for us beyond those things, even if that means finding our way from square one.

I don't think I have been split "white" now. I think she is simply a bit more stable and able to communicate without getting lost in delusions. I believe there is bipolar mixed in with the BPD, yet it seems the mania has cycled down right now, which means everything is less confusing and complicated.

I feel so much better to have heard from her. She will be in the hospital for another week or so, yet I know she is safe and stabilizing. I am simply glad to know that and will take our relationship's future in whatever baby steps are best.

[icky]

stable with communication sounds like a good starting point. i'm glad you're no longer left wondering and no longer painted black. i guess from here on in, it will be a huge amount of work, with no guarantees it will work out. given how traumatic the past couple of weeks have been and that you've only just heard back from her, you've been on quite an emotional rollercoaster. i would try and find some inner calm and stability first, so that you can react calmly when she behaves oddly, as she is bound to. prepare yourself for painful, confusing situations and work out how you want to approach them. it will be a long road and challenging. be wary of being painted white - although it feels "good" - it is  a sign of mental illness for someone to paint you white and it is not sustainable or healthy. sorry to sound negative . i am very relieved for you and i am glad you are feeling better. but this is where the really hard work begins

[icky]

i am not in the mood to deal with my partner's BPD today, or with his moods or needs. i've had an incredibly stressful fortnight and have no time off this weekend (will be working both days) and huge amounts of work next week. in addition to this, i'm doing relationship work and researching BPD and learning techniques. i'm not sure anyone cares how i feel or how i am coping  (feeling a bit sorry for myself, haha). my partner is having fun with his life today, pretending that everything is fine. i am happy for him, but i also feel drained and a bit resentful. i am relieved that things are better between me and my partner than they were recently. but now i feel drained and like i'm the one doing all the work. i guess i should try and work out what i like(d) about our relationship, other than having been idealised/ painted white.  : P. ah well, i'm just in a grumpy mood. but i'm feeling resentful that no-one cares about my moods, while i'm looking after other people's moods. (this may be something i should change. maybe spending more time with people who care about my stuff too). sigh

[icky]

. if i mention that i have tons of work/ stress to my partner, he will hear that as "i have less time and attention to give to you". which, yeahhhhhhh, is kinda true, but it's a very self-centred interpretation. so do i pretend not to have tons of work/ stress? thereby making him wonder why i have less time/ attention for him? or do i tell him why and then expose myself to reproachfulness? i don't want looking-after-BPD-stuff to become a fulltime job. grrrrr. still feeling sorry for myself, haha. better go and get some work done. : /

[icky]

i feel kind of tricked. like my partner "used" the idealisation phase to trick me into a relationship that seemed beautiful and now i've found out that actually, i've signed on to be his substitute-mum and his substitute-therapist. i guess that would "work", if i had no stressful days or days where i feel drained and sorry for myself. i think at the moment i'm just struggling to come to terms with the BPD stuff and trying to get our relationship out of the traumatic territory. once that is done, i don't know whether i'll want to continue with the relationship. it will be so much work and so few rewards. i'm not sure whether my journey is about going on this joint journey with him. or whether if i go on a joint (BPD) journey with him, i'm just detracting and distracting from my own journey. maybe i should focus all this energy and thought and care on my life, instead of on his

[icky]

i'm sorry i'm using this place as a place to vomit right now. i'm not sure where else to do so safely right now (by which i mean without affecting people like my partner negatively, because i worry i would pay a price for it). as part of being in my midlife phase, i ended some long-term relationships and friendships that i felt weren't really contributing to mutual wellbeing. i've made some new friendships since then, but they are not deep or dependable at this stage, so they are not good places to vent. i wasn't looking for a new romantic relationship, but meeting my partner was so sweet and lovely, that i fell for him immediately. ever since then, i've invested all my emotional energy and my time in him and our relationship. until the BPD stuff started, it seemed like a relationship where i could truly be myself and be genuinely loved. now that this has turned out to partly/ largely (?) be a mirage, i feel like i'm left with no one close to me. ugh. all i feel is anger and resentment today.

[icky]

i am under a ridiculous amount of pressure at work this upcoming week (including this weekend) and need to be really professional and behave very professionally, so i can not afford to be angry or venting or feeling sorry for myself. i will be working super long hours this week and will have no time to myself - no time to rest or to have a cry. just massive expectations and lots of pressure and me needing to deliver/ perform. yuck.

[icky]

right. i've gotten some of today's work done, read some threads in the "workshops" section here. and am no longer feeling as angry or as sorry for myself as this morning. i do still wonder about this relationship tho. i realise that with BPD it's a vain wish, but i do wish he'd been more honest/ upfront about this stuff when we started courting. i feel like i entered the relationship with one person, and now i'm in the relationship with a different person. i wish i'd been given the conscious choice of whether i want to get into that kind of relationship. but yada yada, if wishes were horses and so on. i just wonder what this relationship is going to "give" me, from here on in. recently, all i've wanted is to make this BPD mess less traumatic and painful and confusing. i think i've achieved that goal - i understand it and it no longer hurts and it doesn't feel traumatic. so now comes the day to day stuff of "managing" the BPD and learning to live with it. because my partner has been dysregulated for 6 months now, i've kind of forgotten what it was like, when he wasn't. it feels like a distant, faded memory. i feel strong enough now, to deal with the BPD. and with the resources here, i feel capable of dealing with it too. i also feel love and attachment for my partner, but that's possibly mainly from the idealisation phase? during that phase, being together with him, spending time with him was all that i wanted to do, for the rest of my life. now, i look at the rest of my life and wonder whether i want to spend it looking after and/ or loving someone with BPD. given that i feel strong and capable enough of doing that if i want to/ choose to, it no longer feels like a traumatic thing. but just cos i feel able to deal with it, that doesn't automatically mean i want to do that.

[Renard]

stable with communication sounds like a good starting point

i'm glad you're no longer left wondering and no longer painted black

i guess from here on in, it will be a huge amount of work, with no guarantees it will work out

given how traumatic the past couple of weeks have been and that you've only just heard back from her, you've been on quite an emotional rollercoaster

i would try and find some inner calm and stability first, so that you can react calmly when she behaves oddly, as she is bound to

prepare yourself for painful, confusing situations and work out how you want to approach them

it will be a long road and challenging

be wary of being painted white - although it feels "good" - it is  a sign of mental illness for someone to paint you white and it is not sustainable or healthy

sorry to sound negative

i am very relieved for you and i am glad you are feeling better

but this is where the really hard work begins

hmmmmm, thank you for writing. I think you're right about a number of things. The email and stability have helped, yet I really feel the need for my own inner peace and resourcefulness to grow. I don't feel painted white by the emails. I think my partner is both bipolar and BPD. I am only guessing and I don't know if such a scenario is possible, but I think she cycled high into a mania that really unleashed the BPD and painted me black (she even set the police on me--it was only a telephone call from them, but that was pretty unreal). Now she is emailing about being friends. There is no talk of love in the messages, and I even wonder if she remembers all she did while she was painting me black and I wonder whether she is aware of the wreckage caused by the idealization and the love she expressed over the years of our relationship.

[Renard]

i will be working super long hours this week and will have no time to myself - no time to rest or to have a cry

just massive expectations and lots of pressure and me needing to deliver/ perform

yuck

hmmmmm, wow. I know what that feels like. My partner has some flexibility in her work and has even been able to step back from it over the last few weeks while in the hospital. My work is utterly demanding and kind of relentless in the hours required. I know I'm whining, but I'm sure depleted right now: I have hardly been able to eat over the last few weeks and sleep has been crummy. I'm trying to manage so much and trying to get my head around the possibility that she never really loved me--that what I thought was love was her expressing the disorder.

[Renard]

i feel kind of tricked

like my partner "used" the idealisation phase to trick me into a relationship that seemed beautiful and now i've found out that actually, i've signed on to be his substitute-mum and his substitute-therapist

hmmmmm, I see your point, and I'm able to get into a very similar position--that I feel tricked--but I have an additional question: what the you know what is wrong with me? How come I couldn't see more clearly and know that the relationship was too good to be true? What's wrong with me in the sense that I ate up the idealization and changed everything in my life to make a future with my BPD partner? I moved cities, quit jobs, sold property, ended relationships . . . moved some heaven and some earth only to discover I may have fallen in love with an illusion. I do wonder about her and her inability to see what she's put and is putting me through, but how did I become such a fool? Worse, I'm so bloody confused I still feel love for her: she is somewhere in all this such a good human being.

[icky]

if it hadn't been for the intense courtship and the whirlwind romance, i don't know if i'd have fallen in love with him. he's a lovely guy - but then, heaps of guys are good people. i don't know if i would have chosen him, knowing what i know now. by that, i don't mean that "i know he has BPD" and that i find that annyoing or difficult or whatever. what i mean is that now i question all the beautiful things in our courtship, all the loving things he's done. now i wonder if they were just him acting out his BPD needs. it's like i now see the BPD "lurking" behind every positive or negative thing he does or says. he's spent the last six months solely focussing on how he feels (during dysregulation) and not caring a fig about what i've been going through. i guess maybe in january i'll get some answers to these questions. (january is when we're having our big talk. so i guess i can then calmly ask him whether he even realises how harrowing his dysregulting has been for me and what a superhuman effort it's taken to cope with it (i'm not particularly optimisitc re receiving a positive answer)). i can't believe the number of massive changes i made in my life, so that we could spend the rest of our lives together. now they've all been made, and now i don't know if i want to spend the rest of my life with him after all. i'm not sure what the heck i'm going to do with the rest of my life now. : /. i certainly don't think i want to have a relationship with anyone else! i wasn't even keen to get into this relationship. and after all the disappointments in this one, i feel like i'm kind of done with relationships - either for good, or at least for a loong time . maybe i only love him for the sake of what has been and out of a sense of relief that these horrible past 6 months of BPD stuff are over.

[Renard]

hmmmmm, wow again. Whirlwind romance sounds terribly familiar. My partner and I had such an intense and exquisite romance. There was so much that made us so incredibly good together--intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, and so on. Our love making was also so good--from intense to tender and beautiful blends of everything in between. But there was lots of what I might call maintenance (I feel crass even saying that word): I gave a lot to help on anger management, decisions, self worth, emptiness and other things. I thought these were just the stuff of a complex and deep and sensitive person. I think otherwise now, but in truth, I might have admired her and been attracted to her but not fallen for her if I had known that there was something so much more destructive at work.

I confess I have wondered about taking things where they stand now. That is, our email correspondence suggests we could be friends. Perhaps I should leave now and try again. I can't even think about that, however. I also feel so self-pitying. I alluded to the fact that I moved cities and changed jobs to make things work. I now live in a city I don't like. I don't know anyone here. I work and work and work and don't see a way to even meet anyone and I miss my friends from my former city.

I also know that my partner is an incredible person. The thought of finding another relationship feels a bit like gnawing some old crust of bread after knowing what a banquet is like. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has moved on and found better relationships, it's just that my partner is the person who is my banquet (again, crass metaphors but I don't know better ways of letting some of the hurt and confusion out).

[Meili]

First, I'd like to say that you are not alone hmmmmm, we do care and support you.

I think that what you are going through is fairly normal as we all begin to question whether or not a relationship with a person with BPD traits is what we actually want.

As was said to you earlier, the nice stuff that you experienced is just as real as the negative. It's all him. That realization can lead you to radical acceptance of who he is. Once you accept it as a reality, you'll be an a much better position to decide which direction you want to commit to going.

I agree with you that gentle, internal boundaries are a healthy way to approach things. Occasionally, a "line in the sand" boundary must be drawn however. The boundaries are there to protect us. They have little to with our pwBPD, so they are all internal things.

Like you, my x made me believe that we had a wonderful future together, and I changed my entire world to work towards that future. I now understand that if that future is ever to become a possibility, I have to accept that her fears come with that future. Dealing with those fears need not be a full-time job however. It's not my place to "fix" those fears. It's my job to love her the best way that I can and show her kindness, compassion, empathy, and support. If she chooses to allow her fears to be the guiding force, that's on her.

It's good that you realize that his "you're not good enough" or "you don't do enough" comments are not a reflection on you, but rather a projection of how he's feeling. Remembering that will serve you well. It will help you be able to focus on and feel empathetic for he is experiencing inside.

[Renard]

Meili,

Thanks for your phrase "radical acceptance" and for saying that the "nice stuff" was also real. These words help a good deal.

[Cat Familiar]

A bit late to this conversation, but hmmm and Renard, you are articulating so well the compelling aspects of falling in love with someone who has BPD.

As a member who has been here two years, I wanted to add my perspective. I've now been with my partner for 12 years, married for 10. I joined this site after I had done couples therapy and had little improvement in my relationship, other than being slightly able to talk with him about things that concerned me.

I was furious. I felt like I had been duped, tricked. Like you, Renard, I completely changed my life to be with him--used all my money to build a big house we could share.

I've learned a lot being here. I now know that I cannot communicate with him the way I would with a normal person. I cannot share some of my frustrations, my hopes, my fears. He personalizes things that have nothing to do with him and then we're off to the races.
So it can be lonely and frustrating and I can only share these deep thoughts and feelings with some of my girlfriends.

He is mildly BPD and mostly functional. However, that beautiful whirlwind romance now seems long ago with no chance of reemerging ever again. I've lost respect for him due to his behavior and also his predilection for using alcohol to soothe his feelings. I wouldn't say that he's necessarily an alcoholic, but he does depend upon it.

So I make the best of my life and there's a lot of good there, just not the beautiful promise of what I thought it would be in the beginning. I, like you, hmmm, am skeptical about some of the kind behaviors and I'm jaded when I see the "painted white" behavior manifesting. I can no longer fall under its spell.

Having learned what I have here, I can manage his moods a lot better. I no longer make things worse, at least most of the time. I can see the dark clouds looming and I either get out of the approaching storm or can say and do something to redirect it away from me.

That said, this is certainly not the relationship I thought it promised to be at the beginning.

[Meili]

Thanks for your phrase "radical acceptance" and for saying that the "nice stuff" was also real. These words help a good deal.

I'm pretty sure that I posted the link to the lesson about radical acceptance in this thread before, but if I didn't, here it is: Radical Acceptance For Family Members (DBT skill)

[Renard]

Thanks for your phrase "radical acceptance" and for saying that the "nice stuff" was also real. These words help a good deal.

I'm pretty sure that I posted the link to the lesson about radical acceptance in this thread before, but if I didn't, here it is: Radical Acceptance For Family Members (DBT skill)

Meili, thanks very much. I've not read the post, yet but will. I feel committed to my partner and know that the good was good. I'm also confused and hurt and weary but not ready to give up if ever. Thanks for the resource.

[fromheeltoheal]

This thread has reached it's posting limit.  Please feel free to start another thread to continue the conversation.