Sleeplessness and sex

[ElinorD]

Last night DHwBPD had one of his nights where he apparently wanted sex to make him feel better and then spent hours awake pouting.

I mean, the whole country was watching news that kept them up late and riled them up in some sense, right? So we went to bed late, and DH made a couple of comments about how he "was kind of hoping" for sex without doing anything seductive or loving. And politics don't put me in the mood, especially when he lectures me about his point of view, which he had started doing some earlier (and I didn't engage when he did, for a change).

So then he spent hours tossing and turning and getting up. He was clearly angry but I didn't get up and follow him. I followed my new plan of staying in bed and letting him go be alone to fume. I stayed low while the storm raged in him instead of running around trying to stop something I had no control over.

That feels like the right thing to have done. At 2:30 in the morning he got dressed and said he was going in to work since otherwise he wouldn't wake up for an early meeting, and that he needed to solve this somehow because he realized he was acting in an unreasonable way. I said okay. I didn't try to talk him out of it.

Then he changed his mind and came back to bed. He apologized for keeping me awake, admitted he had been feeling anxious at bedtime, and he held me in a loving, affectionate way. So then I did have sex with him, because he was treating me well, not acting like I owed him.

So I'm thinking I have an extinction burst here, because we've had a lot of nights like that, and I've stopped giving in to the FOG, even though I feel it big time. I think I'm doing the right thing by just staying in bed trying to sleep when he's up stewing, but did I mess up by sleeping with him in the middle of the night like that? I didn't until he had a change of attitude and behavior.

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[jrharvey]

I think you did the right thing. He is pouting because he wanted to have sex but didn't do anything about it. By pouting I guess he wanted sympathy and also wanted you to attack him sexually. He was just doing it all wrong. He will try a bunch of different behaviors until he finds one that works which luckily it worked out for him. Hope he learns next time to stop pouting about it and just go for it.

[Grey Kitty]

Dysregulation, pouting*, guilt trips, lectures on politics, restless tossing and turning, and simmering anger, and getting dressed at 2:30am to go to work all have two things in common:

They aren't sexy, and they don't make you feel loved/cared for. (*Some women seem to have a sexy way of pouting, but I don't think this is what you are talking about! )

Not feeling interested then seems like being honest with yourself.

Being vulnerable (admitting he was anxious), apologizing for keeping you up, and holding you lovingly all at least make you feel closer to him.

Did you do the right thing? You didn't clearly say that you felt like sex at the time, but if you did feel like it, then saying yes seems like the right thing to me!

Another good thing is that it shows him in a very visceral way the truth of the expression that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar 

[ElinorD]

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I would say that I at least felt love and compassion for him again when he let himself be vulnerable and kind with me. Then it felt like we had a relationship instead of a standoff, and I could relax. My fearful pounding of my heart calmed down. I hate nights like this when he's dysregulated.

He continued to be more honest and vulnerable in conversation this morning. Unfortunately, he once again hijacked me when I had other things that were already filling my mind and feelings. Instead of being able to deal with my reaction to the election, I was wrapped up with marriage and parenting issues because he was having a crisis. I'm noticing this pattern. I already have something high emotion to deal with, like one of our children leaving for college, and he acts out like a small child would to take over my attention. Which feels to me like compounded trouble. I can't be free to grieve something, I have to be in the midst of an emotional crisis with him.

[ElinorD]

But, hey, I successfully practiced validating his feelings. So I was proud of myself for that.

It's useful to be able to see the larger pattern now, realizing he's dealing with this mental illness. It makes me sad, though.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm noticing this pattern. I already have something high emotion to deal with, like one of our children leaving for college, and he acts out like a small child would to take over my attention.

Yes, it is a pattern. What I think is happening is that he doesn't have the capacity to deal with you when you have your own emotions. He gets overwhelmed, and reaches for his "normal" coping mechanisms, because he can't handle it.

In other words... .you can expect this to continue. What you *can* do is change how you respond when he acts out. Remove yourself and protect yourself, and leave him to find other ways to cope with his own feelings.

Of course it is harder when you are already stressed/upset.   

Still, if you don't change your role, nothing different will happen next time.

[bobcat2014]

But, hey, I successfully practiced validating his feelings. So I was proud of myself for that.

It's useful to be able to see the larger pattern now, realizing he's dealing with this mental illness. It makes me sad, though.

Way to go Elinor!

Yep. It is pathology and it always follows the same path with them.

I like reading posts like yours.

[Lockjaw]

I am not getting sex 8 times because I didn't answer the phone when I was called 8 times in the shower. 

[ElinorD]

Help!

DH just realized that our kids have just a few more nights of an activity that keeps them out of the house all evening. I could see his face fall when he realized it. He said he'd been hoping we'd be able to spend more time together during this. What he meant by that was sex, which he admitted after a couple of vague comments. What he wanted was like a time a few months ago when I got friendly with him and interrupted his video game. He's suddenly very hurt and defensive about this.

So. Once again, he tells me he "was hoping." Guilt tripping me. Not taking action to be romantic, to put me in the mood.  Wanting to blame me. Wanting to play his video games until his wife interrupts him for sex even though he's ignoring her. Well. Wouldn't that be the ideal life?

I'm so tired of being afraid of his moods and reactions.

What do I say to this when I get back home?

[Grey Kitty]

I'm so tired of being afraid of his moods and reactions.

Being fearful like that feels awful.

If you let go of your expectations, you might be better off... .it could go a few ways:

He could hide out playing video games. You have found that trying to interrupt him / get his attention at those times goes badly. My recommendation: Do something alone that you will enjoy.

He could decide to be sexy, fun, and romantic, and engage with you. If he does and you enjoy it, run with it! (YAY!)

He could get upset after hiding out playing video games because you didn't chase him down and engage him with sex. (Or more likely, try to engage him only to be rejected by him). If he does that, time to disengage from that fight.

If you realize that what he gives you is his choice, and let him make it... .and that you can choose a response that feels right to you in any case... .you don't have to be so afraid.

[ElinorD]

It was as I feared last night. He was tense when we went to bed and couldn't sleep. So I tried only partly successfully, and he started talking to me in the middle of the night about the earlier conversation.

I got up and said I didn't want to talk about it in bed, which is a boundary I want to set. I also said I wanted to talk about it for just a limited time, not all night. He was very offended that I expressed these boundaries.

We talked and I kept it from flaring very much out of control. But it was hard for me to feel empathy and validate from that kind of place in myself. So you can help keep them calm but they're still going to think illogically, aren't they?

[ElinorD]

He leveled another of his jealous accusations at me, saying someone close to him suggested I have a crush on a celebrity. Thanks. I needed someone to give him yet another irrational idea to accuse me about.

When he started saying I was the one with the problem causing issues in our relationship, I decided to just own it and admit to him I have a counseling appointment set up.

[ElinorD]

I'm so tempted to tell his family member who gave him the idea that I'm admiring someone that my DH is very jealous and easily triggered so please know that before he says something like that to him again. But that's just blaming my DH's bad behavior on someone else. Would it be caretaking and codependent - trying to get someone else to watch their behavior around DH so that he isn't set off? After all, I can't keep everyone who talks to him from giving him ideas. I do all kinds of watching my own behavior to prevent that already.

What do you do with BP partners in the middle of the night when they get like this? I don't want to spend more sleepless nights in circular conversations. Last night I went to sleep in a different room then for part of the night. Not in anger, but saying we needed to cool off for a while, literally and figuratively. And while I was alone I cried and prayed and then slept. He read and then slept.

But things aren't fine this morning.

[Grey Kitty]

Walking on eggshells is thinking that you can prevent all the triggers that cause his bad behavior, and driving yourself nuts trying to do it. Like telling a family member not to mention the possibility that you have a celebrity crush.

Having a celebrity crush is harmless, unless it becomes a full-on obsession and the crusher goes stalker-crazy about it (which you didn't, I'm sure), or unless you have actual access to the celebrity, and do something about it. (Which I don't think is a real risk either).

Or I 'spose if you start drooling and gushing with lust/love/whatever when the crush appears on TV, that is disrespectful of him, especially if he's around. (I doubt you do that either!)

But getting into a circular argument about it is not going to help anything, as you probably figured out!

When he first brings it up, you might validate that he has some real fears behind his jealousy... .or just enforce a boundary of not getting into circular arguments.

The key for you is being able to take care of yourself (generally remove yourself from his presence) when he's triggered, instead of losing your self-respect and sanity by trying to remove all possible triggers.

Going away to sleep elsewhere (even if you did cry and pray before you fell asleep) is the best thing you can do. For yourself, and ultimately even for him as well. (Despite all his efforts to keep you in these circular arguments, they aren't good for him either!)

[ElinorD]

Thank you. I needed someone to look at that impulse from the outside and tell me if it was that kind of codependent behavior I've been doing for so long.

It's not even a crush. It's admiration for ideas, and it would be the same if this person was a woman. I get so blindsided by the accusations. I said at the time that it wasn't true but that I understood that this kind of thought bothers and triggers him. And then I changed the subject.

I wonder what he thinks he gains from accusations. I suppose he's hoping for reassurance that never is good enough. So self-defeating.

So removing myself is best, you think. Thank you. This is such new territory for me.