Step-Parent Alienation

[Turkish]

Not by me,  but her. 

I came here when I was 41. She was 31. She found a 21 year old White Night,  a random guy she met at a club while I was home with the kids,  then 1 and 3. She moved out about 5 months later,  4 after I found out about him.  She introduced him to the kids right after she moved out.  It soon resulted in problems with the kids but we got past that.  A year later, they got engaged.  6 months later,  they got married.  It was only two months after marriage and cohabitation that I intuited there was a change.  A month later,  she told me: regret. This was a year ago.

The few times I saw them together at family events,  I saw contempt and disrespect towards him from her.  Police drama came this last summer,  having to do with him and his brother.  He was cuffed and arrested on site, but released. I saw them at a wedding a few weeks later.  I sensed some coldness,  or WOE by him,  but he looked none the worse for the wear. Interesting how people project the facade of normality when behind closed doors it's the opposite. 

Maybe two months ago,  it blew up.  She punched him.  Hard. In front of the kids.  I'll give her credit for calling me.  I put on my Turkish hat and encouraged her to call a local DV line,  even though if he had called the cops,  she would have gone to jail.  In talking that night,  she said he'd grabbed her before and thrown her on the couch,  forbidding her to divorce him.  So a mutually combative marriage.  He also took her phone when she was trying to call me to come get the kids.  He gave it back and left. My T said that was also a crime, even if she was the initial aggressor.

I only didn't report it because we were seeing D4's therapist two days later.  I told her to call her T and tell the story.  When we saw the T, she told the story,  and I'll give her credit for realizing she needed help. Only because we were in parenting classes, both kids were in therapy,  and,  and she took responsibility, was it not reported to CPS. The T consulted with other therapists in the office before making this decision. 

So her H was sent to therapy. They went to couples counseling through their church. He stopped sleeping in his car (our son first told me this,  and my ex confirmed this when I asked).

Almost 3 weeks ago,  she wanted to meet,  to talk about the kids and other things.  Rain saved me.  The kids were loaded into her car. We talked ten minutes until rain broke out up.  She was complaining about her H, that whatever he did pissed her off.  I didn't validate that, but said.  "When you feel it's time to make an exit, you'd better have a safety plan for you and the kids. " She gaped at me,  but didn't argue. 

All in all,  and I'm finally getting to the point of the subject,  I've validated the kids' feelings,  as hard as it's been,  because I realized from the beginning that I'd be the parent most likely to alienate.  The kids didn't seem to realize the concept of "step-dad" and it's pathetic that I had to tell them.  My ex has from my point of view,  been looking for an out for almost a year.  She severely curtails him.  It was almost a year ago that S then 5 told me that "mommy called 'Billy' stupid." That's not his name,  but it's a similarly juvenile name for now a 24 year old.

Tonight,  S6 said out of the blue during dinner,  "mommy calls Billy a liar." It was really odd. The kids were eating dinner at the table, and I was at the stove preparing burrito fixings for me (the kids are picky). I asked him what he meant and he said that mommy called Billy a liar about things.  He also said that he called him "Stupid Billy." I asked him how he felt about that and he said he felt dad.  He's gotten some of this,  too. Shaming.

I had talked to her about this months ago.  She seemed to get it,  but she seems to be participating in a role of her parents' marriage.  The sad thing is that she's indicated that she's aware of this,  both in retrospect with me,  and now with him.  Awareness isn't enough. 

I'm tempted,  YET AGAIN,  to talk to her about this,  because she does listen to me,  and reaches out on occasion when in crisis.  I hate that our kids have to witness this dynamic,  but I also don't want to get involved.  Her H, whose number I have but don't text,  sent me a Facebook text link last week.  It was a broken link.  I asked what was up?  He never responded. Weird.

[Kwamina]

Hi Turkish,

Sorry to hear that your ex continues to cause these kinds of problems. Perhaps not totally surprising considering her track record, but still it would be nice if this type of behavior had remained a thing of the past.

Maybe two months ago,  it blew up.  She punched him.  Hard. In front of the kids.
... .
In talking that night,  she said he'd grabbed her before and thrown her on the couch,  forbidding her to divorce him.  So a mutually combative marriage.  He also took her phone when she was trying to call me to come get the kids.  He gave it back and left.
... .
"When you feel it's time to make an exit, you'd better have a safety plan for you and the kids. " She gaped at me,  but didn't argue.  
... .
I hate that our kids have to witness this dynamic,  but I also don't want to get involved.

Do you believe your kids are safe around your ex and her husband? How has their stepdad been treating them?

I understand your reluctance to get involved. I do think that because the two of you have children together, you already are involved even if you would prefer not to be. You are understandably not pleased at all that your children have been witnessing this unhealthy dynamic. Do you truly feel like there is no other option but for them to witness this, or are there perhaps certain steps you could take to shield your children from it? Since this also concerns your kids, my advice would definitely be to talk to your ex again.

[Moselle]

Turkish,

Sorry to hear it's going badly. It's the last thing we want our children to see and experience.

Do you think that your interventions can make a difference?

I'm very interested in this topic.

My ex got married on Thursday. 6 days after our divorce the previous Friday. It's a little different as she is actively trying to replace me as the father, with this idiot who happened to be a friend of mine. He thinks he's the new sheriff in town and is glowing in the idealisation phase.

Did you have anything similar in the beginning?

It sounds like you are now the white knight and he is painted black. I think it's Important to remain at arm's length and realise that split white or black, it's just the imaginings of a mental illness.

[Turkish]

Two opposing bits of advice.  Interesting.  So fight.  One,  two,  three, go... .just kidding 

Moselle, my situation is a bit different.  Her H is 20 years younger than me.  He was weirdly obsequious to me from the start.  He called me "Mr. Turkish [my surname]" for months,  starting from the first time I met him. It bugged me at first, but more so amused me.  He finally stopped.

In whatever way is going on in his mind,  I don't think he's a danger to the kids.  Despite how he entered the r/s, I sense that he wants to do the right thing.  His anger and volatility, however, is still there.  Again,  triggered by her.  The way she treats him,  and the way she alienates him with the kids.  My ex told me a year ago that she told him,  "Turkish would do anything to protect the kids.  He boxes.  He's really good with guns." (I've taken several defensive firearms training classes , she knows this).  I wanted to say.  "Why are you telling him this stuff?"

I met privately with him once.  That was enough.  I don't know what the mysterious text message last week from him was about.  He never answered.

She married him and she's alienating him as a step parent. I've talked to get twice about this before,  the last time (over a month before she assaulted him) when our son was in the hospital and she stated demeaning him after he left to her sister and SIL, while our son was awake.  She accepted my constructive criticism at the time,  but it changes nothing.  I could talk to her yet again,  and maybe encourage her to bring this up with her T. Like so many things,  she's often at a loss of how to act.  I keep thinking it's good that she realizes this,  but her behaviors don't seem to change.  I was in many ways the parent in the r/s. But in some ways still feel so. 

[Moselle]

Two opposing bits of advice.  Interesting.  So fight.  One,  two,  three, go... .just kidding 

Thanks Mr Turkish

I can see that you are acting somewhat as the parent. Maybe that's a good position. At least you can influence. I don't have the temperament or the interest to play that role.

He has this "Head butt me" face (and I'm close to obliging) and has the audacity to call me "Wally face". Come back to me in three years time and tell me who's wally face then, you idiot when she starts beating you up, commiting fraud, and poking you in the eyes when you're sleeping.

Having spoken to his ex, he has some cluster B traits which she described to me without me prompting, so I'm not sure what two cluster B's do together. Is it like a mutual abusive understanding or is it explosive? 

[Turkish]

I guess in this case, I can tell you what most Leavers/Detachers wish would happen: vindication. Tonight by text (leaving out the details of what led up to her telling me,  which in short that she was sick and might bring the kids over for me to watch and I said "what about H?", she told me she's making plans to leave.  I told her what our son had said.  It seems like,  however, that she's done. 

He's indicated that he forbade her from divorcing before.  I occasionally check his  FB page,  and it's all bible verses about marriage. 

My T told me that spouse worship is one of the worst forms of idolatry.  Interestingly,  our pastor told us today that parents can do this to their kids.  He isn't going to let go easily. Despite her bad behaviors, I've counseled her on a safety plan.  At least she said that she stopped arguing with him the other night to keep the peace while the kids were sleeping in the other room. 

[Moselle]

I'm sure you do feel vindicated. Well done for being the adult. It seems she appreciates that.