Ever have your pwBPD "claim" your awesome sexual experience as their own?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

New territory for me.  I tried to stay friendly and interested as my wife complained about me "not getting her... ."

Grab some popcorn and settle in for an interesting... .confusing... .story

So, she seemed to come home last night in a good mood from her Monday evening Bible study.  I was chilling on the couch... .just relaxing.  No book or electronic devices... just relaxing.  I invited her to sit with me... .which she did.  In a few minutes she asked if I wanted to watch a movie with her... .which I agreed to.  So, a relaxed evening of snuggling. 

I perceived she was giving off "sex signals"... .snuggling closer... .etc etc.  We head in to bed... .I put on nice music and start rubbing her.  80-90% of the time when I do that... it ends up with sex.  She seemed responsive... .then seemed to want to talk about sex (very unusual).

She is like... ."Remember when I said that was best sex ever?"  With a grin on my face... I said yeah... .that's a great memory.  I'm listening... .  (Ohh how I wish that sex story involved me "high fiving" her after it was over... .but alas... .that is different story... .)

Then my wife starts saying that's how she likes it... .that was nice... .etc etc.  I said I agreed... .but since it wasn't "the middle of the night" (me waking up to pounce)... .how did she want this to play out now.  She seemed genuinely confused... .as was I.  (my most recent memory of her saying it was "best ever" was middle of the night pounce (2 or 3 in morning... .a rare thing in last few years)

I stayed friendly and said that perhaps I was thinking of a different time... .what was she thinking about?  She said... ."You know... when I was saying it as best ever... ."

Well... .it became obvious she was not going to give up more details.  So I kept rubbing... .made some moves to do some kissing on her body... .she seemed uninterested.   I made another overture for her to say what she wanted... .more vagueness.  Well... she eventually looks at the clock and says... ."It's late... I need to get sleep for work tomorrow."

I said "Ok... .sleep tight.  Gave her a friendly pat on her rump, hopped out of bed and went into bathroom to start drawing my nightly warm bath."

5-10 minutes later she comes and takes shower (unusual... I figured she was asleep).  As I'm getting in the bath... .she makes some comments/questions about it being "too hot".  I agree it's tricky... as I try to have it as hot as I can stand it... .to help stretch out and relax muscles.

I get in tub and realize she is going to get in.  She again complains about heat... .but eventually gets settled in.  I stretch some.  Rub her feet a bit... .she hops out and goes to bed.  I show up in bed 15-20 minutes later.  She is sleeping and somehow S8 has showed up... .he is snoring.

I'm totally cool with evening, although a bit confused.  Off to sleep I go.

This morning we wake up.  Standard morning of snuggling a bit while hitting snooze a bit.  Then... in a soft voice.  "Hey... .can we talk about last night."  Again... I focus on friendly and open... "Sure... what's up."

"I want to know why you wouldn't do what I wanted last night... ."  (inside... .I'm going... "Ohh... good grief"... .)  Outside... .I think I'm doing good staying friendly.

I say "Hmmm... .what was it you wanted?"  she says "You know... .rubbing and all that... .like the time I said it was best sex ever... "  she keeps going  (sorry if TMI) "It doesn't always have to be about jamming it in and getting the cum out... ."  (I now realize that we are having a "BPD" sex conversation... .try to relax and stay friendly and interested)

Well... .at some point I asked directly... ."So you were talking about that time I woke up and pounced on you... .right"  (from a few months back... .her positive reaction really stood out to me)

She said... ."No... .remember the time when you were rubbing and kissing on me and then you said your orgasm "snuck up on you"  I said "Oh yeah... .I remember that" 

I also remember talking about it a bunch after... because I was so shocked at the way the orgasm showed up... and how intense it was.  I also remember that my wife didn't say or express anything about it being outstanding or remarkable for her.

Well... .I hugged her a bit and she got up to start her day.  I sit here in amazement as she was asking for me to do to her what I did when she said it was best ever, when actually... .she was talking about the time when I said it was best ever. 

She seemed to be complaining about me "sticking it in and getting cum out"... while wanting me to rub and kiss... .when what actually happened was I made no effort at all to "stick it in"... .I focused on rubbing (and some kissing)... .while waiting for a sign she was ready to move to next "base".

I guess I'm glad she wants to talk about sex and her needs... .but I'm wondering how on earth to navigate when she is "flipping" who said what about sex being good... .complains about me not understanding her... .while staying vague when I ask for details.

Sigh... .

I get it... .most guys are probably chuckling at my efforts to sort this out.  I'm hoping for guidance on how to help her open up about what she wants... .and be specific.

FF

[formflier]

New territory for me.  I tried to stay friendly and interested as my wife complained about me "not getting her... ."

Grab some popcorn and settle in for an interesting... .confusing... .story

So, she seemed to come home last night in a good mood from her Monday evening Bible study.  I was chilling on the couch... .just relaxing.  No book or electronic devices... just relaxing.  I invited her to sit with me... .which she did.  In a few minutes she asked if I wanted to watch a movie with her... .which I agreed to.  So, a relaxed evening of snuggling. 

I perceived she was giving off "sex signals"... .snuggling closer... .etc etc.  We head in to bed... .I put on nice music and start rubbing her.  80-90% of the time when I do that... it ends up with sex.  She seemed responsive... .then seemed to want to talk about sex (very unusual).

She is like... ."Remember when I said that was best sex ever?"  With a grin on my face... I said yeah... .that's a great memory.  I'm listening... .  (Ohh how I wish that sex story involved me "high fiving" her after it was over... .but alas... .that is different story... .)

Then my wife starts saying that's how she likes it... .that was nice... .etc etc.  I said I agreed... .but since it wasn't "the middle of the night" (me waking up to pounce)... .how did she want this to play out now.  She seemed genuinely confused... .as was I.  (my most recent memory of her saying it was "best ever" was middle of the night pounce (2 or 3 in morning... .a rare thing in last few years)

I stayed friendly and said that perhaps I was thinking of a different time... .what was she thinking about?  She said... ."You know... when I was saying it as best ever... ."

Well... .it became obvious she was not going to give up more details.  So I kept rubbing... .made some moves to do some kissing on her body... .she seemed uninterested.   I made another overture for her to say what she wanted... .more vagueness.  Well... she eventually looks at the clock and says... ."It's late... I need to get sleep for work tomorrow."

I said "Ok... .sleep tight.  Gave her a friendly pat on her rump, hopped out of bed and went into bathroom to start drawing my nightly warm bath."

5-10 minutes later she comes and takes shower (unusual... I figured she was asleep).  As I'm getting in the bath... .she makes some comments/questions about it being "too hot".  I agree it's tricky... as I try to have it as hot as I can stand it... .to help stretch out and relax muscles.

I get in tub and realize she is going to get in.  She again complains about heat... .but eventually gets settled in.  I stretch some.  Rub her feet a bit... .she hops out and goes to bed.  I show up in bed 15-20 minutes later.  She is sleeping and somehow S8 has showed up... .he is snoring.

I'm totally cool with evening, although a bit confused.  Off to sleep I go.

This morning we wake up.  Standard morning of snuggling a bit while hitting snooze a bit.  Then... in a soft voice.  "Hey... .can we talk about last night."  Again... I focus on friendly and open... "Sure... what's up."

"I want to know why you wouldn't do what I wanted last night... ."  (inside... .I'm going... "Ohh... good grief"... .)  Outside... .I think I'm doing good staying friendly.

I say "Hmmm... .what was it you wanted?"  she says "You know... .rubbing and all that... .like the time I said it was best sex ever... "  she keeps going  (sorry if TMI) "It doesn't always have to be about jamming it in and getting the cum out... ."  (I now realize that we are having a "BPD" sex conversation... .try to relax and stay friendly and interested)

Well... .at some point I asked directly... ."So you were talking about that time I woke up and pounced on you... .right"  (from a few months back... .her positive reaction really stood out to me)

She said... ."No... .remember the time when you were rubbing and kissing on me and then you said your orgasm "snuck up on you"  I said "Oh yeah... .I remember that" 

I also remember talking about it a bunch after... because I was so shocked at the way the orgasm showed up... and how intense it was.  I also remember that my wife didn't say or express anything about it being outstanding or remarkable for her.

Well... .I hugged her a bit and she got up to start her day.  I sit here in amazement as she was asking for me to do to her what I did when she said it was best ever, when actually... .she was talking about the time when I said it was best ever. 

She seemed to be complaining about me "sticking it in and getting cum out"... while wanting me to rub and kiss... .when what actually happened was I made no effort at all to "stick it in"... .I focused on rubbing (and some kissing)... .while waiting for a sign she was ready to move to next "base".

I guess I'm glad she wants to talk about sex and her needs... .but I'm wondering how on earth to navigate when she is "flipping" who said what about sex being good... .complains about me not understanding her... .while staying vague when I ask for details.

Sigh... .

I get it... .most guys are probably chuckling at my efforts to sort this out.  I'm hoping for guidance on how to help her open up about what she wants... .and be specific.

FF

[flourdust]

It sounds to me like walking on eggshells. Outwardly, nothing really bad happened. But you were confused and trying to follow her direction and signals, but at the same time trying to ask directly what was going on... .probably to avoid triggering a meltdown. I see both the F and the O in FOG here -- F of pushing her past the point of no return by expressing your own feelings; O to stay engaged even when it was making your head spin.

[formflier]

Perhaps... .I was confused... .I expressed that to her... .but didn't dwell on it.  I did my part, if she wants to clarify... .then great. If not... .I'm OK with that too.

I'm going to reject the "fear" part... .but I do think I felt an "obligation" to try and communicate.  Likely tried to stay engaged well past when I should have shrugged my shoulders.

Also... totally admit this was so odd and different... .kind of like a train wreck... .that I stayed engaged. Especially once I figured out that she was claiming "my" best experience as hers.  It's true she may have also "felt" that was her best... .but she has never expressed that to me.

Seriously... .no on fear and guilt.  Obligation... .did I take it too far? Most likely... .

Correct... .nothing bad happened.  Except spinning my head... .which hasn't happened to this extent... .in a long time.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Uhm... .feelings = facts?

She was feeling something, and modified her story/memory to better align to whatever they were? You notice it more when the changes are to paint you black, but the process is the same even if it paints you white... .or if it doesn't really involve you at all!

... .and also at a visceral and subconscious level, she has trouble with anybody having feelings that are different than hers, so that little "detail" gets lost.

Meanwhile, the (wishful thinking, I know ) smooth talker in me is thinking of the lost opportunity to say something like "We've had so many amazing times, I guess I lost track of which best ever you meant... .remind me more about the one you are thinking of right now." when the confusion first appeared.

Much more productive anyway to focus 95% of your energy on how you respond to a situation, and avoid the rabbit hole of trying to figure out how it happened in the first place. And it sounds like this one went pretty well, all told.

[formflier]

  "We've had so many amazing times, I guess I lost track of which best ever you meant... .remind me more about the one you are thinking of right now." when the confusion first appeared.
 

Almost word for word what my P advised me that I should have said.

Lots of my T is focused on "why" I respond the way I do... .how have I been conditioned. 

1.  I want to give an honest answer and I want to be "open" with my wife.  (when asked how that has been working out for me... .it opens up so many rabbit trails to run down)

The new strategy... what I should have done... .was instead of "being honest and problem solving" (to figure out what she was talking about)... .I should have "considered my audience and then consider what I could say that would be helpful to our relationship... .or for the person.

My goal would be to say there were so many good times and then to put the ball back in her court to talk more about that special time. 

I also need to be aware that she expects me to mind read... .and not to debate whether or not mind reading is healthy or appropriate.  So... when she asks incredulously... ."you don't know which time I mean... ." and need to chuckle at my predicament... .because there are so many good times.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

So... when she asks incredulously... ."you don't know which time I mean... ." and need to chuckle at my predicament... .because there are so many good times.

Yeah... .or something like "I'm so sorry about that... .you just melt my brain sometimes! Stop it. No, I take it back. Please don't stop it!"

I want to give an honest answer and I want to be "open" with my wife.  (when asked how that has been working out for me... .it opens up so many rabbit trails to run down)

Think of this like your combat training. You practiced doing things ahead of time so when the situation came up suddenly in combat, you did the right thing immediately and effectively.

I'll bet you had to un-learn a bunch of wrong reactions along the way.

I'll bet you didn't do it quickly, efficiently, or effectively the first few times either.

I'll bet you critiqued yourself, and had others do it for you after training or real missions.

... .we're here to help you on combat-flirting missions with your wife 

[empath]

One of the more annoying aspects to my own marriage is the lack of clear communication; there is lots of vagueness and attempts to manipulate rather than just outright saying something or asking. So, sometimes, I will just say, 'I'm not quite sure because there are so many different ones that you could be thinking of... .' I've also said, "it feels like you want something but can't quite say it... ."  

Making assumptions with 'normal' types is bad enough when you have at least a common understanding of events. In the BPD wonderland, you can never tell. It makes sense in that world - you are me and I am you, so your experience is mine.

[Notwendy]

FF, I think this might be an example of poor boundaries, - I am you and you are me and feelings = facts, mirroring,  and projections fall in this category.

It may be that this happens more than you notice, but because of the situation, it got your attention.

This happens from time to time with my mother. She will speak of an experience she had,  only it is one that I had. I've heard it with a parenting experience- "I recall driving you kids around... " and I think, wait, this is me she is talking about. I think she is trying to bond with me over both being mothers, and so she related to me by telling a similar story to an experience I had. Another one is about dating when I was a teen/young adult- she may mention I thought someone was attractive- but I didn't and so wondered maybe she did? Again, it is hard to know what she is thinking or if she is trying to bond with me over a mutual experience and mirroring me.

I wonder if this kind of thing happens more often- but this time it was noticeable.