Need advice

[InIndia]

I'm looking for advice on if there's a way of moving forward regarding my daughter stealing money from us. I attempted to bring up the issue two days ago as a matter of vulnerable sharing what was making me emotionally insecure and tense lately, without confrontation or accusation, and it still resulted in her disregulating, leaving claiming she will never come back, telling a neighbor she will file a case against us, etc. What bothers me far more than the money (we can be more careful to not give her chances)  is letting her think things are "fine" because she thinks we don't know and only accept her on the terms of her being "good". Of course there are a lot of other areas besides stealing this is relevant to, but this is the first that has been directly in relationship to me since our daughter joined our family six months ago, and I really hope to establish that I am totally committed to bringing authenticity and safety to our family.  Any advice?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hi InIndia 

I'm sorry your daughter has stolen money from you and she dysregulated when you attempted to raise with her. 

This may help you think through communicating boundaries and limits https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/06.htm Do you think you may find that helpful in preparing for those conversations. 

WDx

[drained1996]

In my experience if indeed your daughter suffers from BPD, is to expect that boundaries you do set will be tested and most likely broken.  Be compassionate with yourself when this happens, as it's not your fault.  For you and her, keep any boundaries you set and deal with the consequences for her appropriately for each crossing. 
  I will also add, that without long term proper therapy and the patients willingness to engage, improvement is more than difficult.  I'm no therapist, nor expert, just expressing what I've experienced and learned.  Is she willing to engage in therapy if you can find an avenue that will be of help?

[InIndia]

Thank you both
I need to take time to think out my boundaries to set for myself and anything I may need to express regarding money. The relational part is what feels the hardest, that there's an "elephant in the room" now. I've expressed my need to feel safe in our home and my desire to create an emotionally and physically safe space for all of us, but I guess I need to be more specifically clear, internally first.

She had about five counseling sessions but was really resistant to it, so since it has been a huge amount of effort on many levels for me, I haven't made it happen lately, and I'm discouraged by the benefit if she's not motivated at all.

Trying to slow myself to not be so devastated by lack of progress and avenues or clarity for myself... .She's only been with us six months now, less than that since we began to commit to her as parents.

[Lollypop]

Hi there Inindia

It's so infuriating and upsetting and I have to say one if the hardest things to deal with. I'm so very sorry this is happening in your home.

Can I ask how old your daughter is?
Is she able to work?
Why do you think she needed the money?

Our bods26 returned home to us last December. He has a history of stealing money from us. At first we made sure there was never anything left around and, very sadly, I had to tell my younger son15 to do the same. It's a horrible feeling and something you just shouldn't have to do in your own home.

I've learnt to keep things very simple.

We do not give BPDs26 any money, at all.

We provided free bed and board at first.

When his money ran out, supply of cigarettes ran out and his friends got fed up with him scrounging HE got himself a days casual work. This was a turning point.

i won't got into much more detail as I've got to go out now. But I will say that BPDs is earning regularly and saves (kind of).  He pays me weekly rent, on time.

Financial management, a better relationship through communication and validation in a loving and caring relationship has been my key priorities.

I'm now working on being assertive but caring - massive change as I'm a bit confrontational!

Hope this helps.

I look forward to hearing from you

L

[Lollypop]

Hi there again,

Please don't despair as it sounds to me like you're really starting to reflect on what your own goals are. You're doing great.

I really do accept that progress can actually be just one conversation where they feel safe enough to open up. Or even just being stable on any one day.

Take care of yourself. Ask questions and we will all happily share.

L

[InIndia]

Thank you L
She is 19, and has worked in the past, but only briefly. It's really difficult for her to keep a job with her unpredictable emotional disregulation and other acting out (like physical and verbal violence). There's a newspaper office that is offering to train her to be a reporter (her dream), and they're an amazing group working for social justice so they have desire to support her on multiple levels, so my husband and I are eager for her to take them up fully on their offer. So far she hasn't, but we just found out they won't be able to accommodate her starting until mid December. The training period (they haven't told us how long)  would be unpaid. Our D19 is desperately looking for work herself--at first I was helping her but now I've decided that's entirely in her boat, but we provide all food and rent for her own room and money she needs for basics. She is really very self motivated, but finding a job here is hard. She's shown her desperation a lot of ways, particularly getting disregulated because of wanting to be independent and feeling unable to. If she didn't find one for this month my biggest concern would be that I would have to deal with her around daily! So that affects other boundary questions around how much to allow her in our home, etc.

My husband had  mentioned the idea of giving her an allowance which I feel strongly against now. I wish so much that she would admit she has been taking money. It would make it easier for her and us. She's still doing everything she can to keep us, thinking it means she has to prove to us she's never made mistakes, and I'm really frustrated with the sense that it closes all dialogue. She told us her defence, and the issue is set aside or else she'll disregulated and run away again. I don't intend to bring it up unless I knew how it could be a productive conversation toward more connection, but beyond the relational I'm not even clear what other goal I would have from bringing it up. I wish I could chalenge her thinking that we would only accept a perfect daughter.

I'm still curious by the way why she needed the money as she doesn't actually have much expenses. She may have given or lent it to someone. She may have it hidden for the day she feels she needs to flee and find a new family to care for her.

I really really appreciate hearing your experience and stories of how you've handled similar situations! Thanks

[Lollypop]

Hi II

My BPDs stole money when he had none and needed it for weed. He only lived in the moment and, for quite a few years, couldnt plan more than a couple of hours ahead. Bpds is much better when is is working but has a history of having relationship problems with colleagues due to his immaturity and dysregulation; drug use didn't help either.

Somehow  it really hurt when he took money from our wallets. Such a complicated mixture of sadness, anger at him and anger at ourselves and disappointment.  But in the scheme of things this stolen money doesn't matter, he's the one that bears the shame and disappointment in what he's done. We challenged him and all it did was make him feel worse.  This may not be what you want to hear but it's great that you're daughter has such good planning skills if she's saving it for a rainy day!

When he admitted to me that the first time he stole a lot of money it was from his grandmother and i I said "well, that must feel really awful and maybe one day in the future you'll be in a position to give that money away to somebody that really really needs it".  

I too tried to help my BPDs get work, help with cvs etc. It worked from 16 to 19 but I was too involved and it put pressure on him and he resented me as my approach with him was too rigid.  Our relationship wasn't good. I wasn't assertive but caring and more like "you'll do as you're told".  However it got him working and learning new skills. When things did go wrong in work we made a big deal out of his mistakes (remember pre diagnosis). We are in a different place now.  He's found his own way to work through trial and error.

We took it slow and we've got him stable following crisis st 24. We are open and honest with him, just as we would be with an adult. He's tested us in all sorts of ways but we've managed to be consistent (with the help and support here). We do not react any more and stay focussed on our goals as we get  a better understanding of our BPDs life and challenges. He trusts us now. This is a combination of him maturing, our knowledge of BPD and limitations, work on better communication and relationship AND validation.

He works outside on a casual basis and I've accepted it and given up any ideas or dreams of a career for him. His life won't be what I'd hoped for but it will be his life. With me demonstrating better communication skills, BPDs has improved and can tell his bosses if he's struggling with something.

Basically, BPDs does everything himself now that he should do himself as an adult. It's been a slow progress. I recognise that we've been part of the problem by not allowing him to make mistakes. We taught him that mistakes are bad but actually they are how we ALL learn. .

For him to behave like an adult, he needs to be treated like one.

It's late in the day. He's about five years behind but it is what it is. We plan on retiring early and he MUST be independent. We are being the parents he needs now: working on being assertive but caring.

I'm sorry this is so long.

Your daughter has a short term goal to do a job that she really wants. This sounds like a fantastic opportunity for her.  Mid December start - That's not too far away is it?  My BPDs would be feeling very anxious at this point and his behaviour would be erratic and edgy. He would doubt his capabilities.

Is there anything you think you can to do to further support her in preparing for this work placement?

Hugs

L  

[InIndia]

Hi L,
It sounds really hopeful that your son can be an adult now!  Though of course it's intimidating how long it can be, how dreams need to be adjusted, and obviously is hard hard work... .How long did you say it's been, how old is he now? I'm especially curious how long it took to develop trust.

Thanks

[Lollypop]

Hi II

We still have some way to go as far as him being a complete adult! We inch forward in a kind of phased approach.  Bpds was 26 last week, to give you an idea of his maturity level; his girlfriend is just 18.

Basically, we told him we'd changed and then we had to prove it. It has been so hard!

It's much easier to decide what is his responsibility at 25 - everything. But I need to be realistic and go slowly, step by step and he's hardly even aware of what I'm doing (although he is aware, it's not overwhelming).  I've learnt that for him to do something new, without complaint or resistance, takes about five attempts. I've needed to be flexible when things haven't worked out.

Your daughter is 19 with maybe a lot less life experiences than my BPDs so I guess it's not always easy to know what she should be expected to do herself. At 19 my BPDs was like a petulant 15 year old and drugged up most of the time. He just didn't want to grow up.

Here's an example of our approach. He started to pick up work regularly and I talked to him about him contributing towards his living expenses. I proposed a nominal amount and He says he wants to pay me monthly.  I try and get him to sign a contract but I found this was just too formal and contradicted what I was trying to create: a loving and supportive environment. He managed the first monthly payment but not the second. We had a talk and I said "it's just not working out this way and you're putting too much pressure on yourself, let's try a weekly payment as I'm sure you'll find it a lot easier to manage". I had a merry old dance each and every Monday and it wasn't easy keeping my cool. But I was light as a fairy and by the 6th week I didn't have to ask for it. Progress! He started to slip after 6 months and i had about 3-4 weeks where he was resistant again. I could tell he was very low, I stuck firm and told him simply that he had to pay me weekly without any excuses and his weekly rent isn't questioned at all now.

Each week I ask if there's anything he specifically wants or needs. He can physically see what he gets for his money.

The same went for getting his car. I'd been driving him to and from work. He eventually saved enough money and we started to get involved with helping him find himself a car. Big mistake! He felt the pressure and got overwhelmed again. He spent some of his money. I told him "ok, that was a blip but you've proved you can save - great! You've got three weeks to get some money together."  I reminded him 5 days before the deadline "I'm not driving you to work any more. Next Monday you'll have to find out another way of getting to work. This is not my responsibility".  He found a car himself the following day. He crashed it within 3 weeks and I said "oh dear, was anybody hurt? Oh, ok, that's good to hear you just hit a wall".  . End of conversation. The next day he took it himself to get fixed. This is totally unbelievable and I still can't believe he did this!

I'd say it's taken 9 months to get his trust. He's tested me in conversations, telling me stuff I shouldn't know, stuff I don't want to know - painful stories of what he's done in the past. I just say "oh" if I'm unable to validate.

The first sign of him "feeling the love" was after about 4 months. He asked to see his box of childhood photos. We sat together and went through some. He'd rarely ever looked at them as he found it too painful. His memory of his childhood was very warped. I couldn't believe it when he covered one of his walls with photos of us all. He was re-inventing himself and his memories.

I keep my conversations light, chatty and rarely on anything serious. I have to watch my facial expressions and body language because it's like he's super sensitive. I smile a lot. It's been hard, especially when I'm feeling low, but we've got to the point where I can safely express my own problems and feelings.

I try to listen, listen and listen some more then validate. If I get the validation wrong I do what is called a re-do "oh you know, I was thinking about what you said the other day and... .".

Sorry for this being long again. We have found a way as a family. It's very frustrating that he doesn't seek treatment. He smokes weed every day and is a self confessed pot head. But you know, these are his choices. Currently I'm enabling him but working on what I see as bigger priorities: our relationship, his financial management skills to get him to a point he can successfully live independently (with emotional and most probably some temporary financial assistance).

I've learnt the hard way and now undesrstand I need to step back and allow him to take the reigns of his own life.  We understand that he gets very low and wants to end his life but for the first time ever, we see him growing and are hopeful. My BPDs is a "quiet" BPDs and doesn't rage.

Can you tell me a little more about your daughter? Does she want treatment and is she committed? Does she have friends?  Importantly, how are you coping with having her home?

[InIndia]

Our D19 is not interested in treatment at all, and there isn't much available here anyway in the city we're in in North India, or probably elsewhere in India it seems. We just had her going to a psychologist for a while and though she loved talking to her, it was still a fight to get her to go each week. The three of us are working through a DBT workbook, which she resists too, but it's like a half an hour together as a family.
I only realized yesterday talking to a friend with adopted daughters what we might be dealing with in developing trust with our D19 given she's not our real daughter, and not even officially adopted given there's no procedure for adopting an adult in India. And I've realized even if there were, I don't know if I'm ready to commit to it

She has just a few friends and a boyfriend of a few years  off and on that she is continuously on the phone with. I don't think it's a bad thing as it keeps her from being in her own head, although it drives me crazy listening to their constant quarreling dynamic on the phone, and having to take a minute sometimes to realize if she's talking to me or him, having half her attention often. We implement mealtimes and family time as when all technology has to be off.

Anyway, lots of details... .At the moment I think I'm especially tired so not really clear. I can sense there's a lot not okay with me about how things are in my home and daily life, but since everything changes so fast, it's hard to get a sense of what I need. Supposedly D19 has a job she found on her own that she can start tomorrow. We'll see if she goes... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Good luck II

Rest up

L