Minor disagreement turns ugly

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

This morning at 6 am my gf/w/BPD  asked me if her daughter (my step daughter) could watch our (nearly) 2 year old daughter.  When I stated that I did not think it was a good idea (wrong answer) it became WWIII. There is only ever 1 correct answer to questions they pose to us or sometimes 0 correct responses (e.g. 'what do you like best about my body?'.  I said she was too young and that we should wait until shes 13 in the new year and this 'incorrect' answer made my partner angry.  This row will now go on for 3 days and it has now (somehow) turned into a rant about my sexual history and what a disgusting pig I am for having ex partners (before I even met my current partner).  They will link any row no matter what the topic to something else and put you on course for the toxic vortex.  I know there is guides on how to prevent the rows but the truth is when they are in the mood it becomes damage limitation every single time and no books/forums/therapy will assist you in that instant.

[nonbpdis-m]

This morning at 6 am my gf/w/BPD  asked me if her daughter (my step daughter) could watch our (nearly) 2 year old daughter.  When I stated that I did not think it was a good idea (wrong answer) it became WWIII. There is only ever 1 correct answer to questions they pose to us or sometimes 0 correct responses (e.g. 'what do you like best about my body?'.  I said she was too young and that we should wait until shes 13 in the new year and this 'incorrect' answer made my partner angry.  This row will now go on for 3 days and it has now (somehow) turned into a rant about my sexual history and what a disgusting pig I am for having ex partners (before I even met my current partner).  They will link any row no matter what the topic to something else and put you on course for the toxic vortex.  I know there is guides on how to prevent the rows but the truth is when they are in the mood it becomes damage limitation every single time and no books/forums/therapy will assist you in that instant.

[Lockjaw]

Been there... .I don't think there is a correct answer either. I am learning you can phrase it in a way that may help.

I am uncomfortable leaving my children with people too.

[waverider]

She was having a need blocked. This is probably not about her daughter being old enough per say, it is about not being able to do whatever it was that required a baby sitter and having her other daughter baby sit was the only way to achieve that need.

Once she has decided that you are the persecutor for denying her need then she searches her memory banks to validate that view of you. You get "kitchen sinked". The original issue now has been eclipsed and justifying her anger is now paramount.

[Lockjaw]

WOW you are brilliant. That is exactly what happens to me.

[Meili]

Yep, what WR said. So, the idea is to stop the bleeding by not allowing the conversation to escalate into a fight.

When they enter the Karpman Drama Triangle it is your job to stay out of the corners. Or, ideally, out of the triangle completely.

[Cole]

Been off the board for a while, but I see nothing has changed; WR still nailing it.

When you blocked her from something she wanted to do, she responded like a child being told, "no". The only way to justify her uncontrollable anger to herself is to make you out to be the worst reprobate to have ever walked the planet. The anger and insults are a coping mechanism for someone who cannot control emotion, not a true attack on you. I know it is hard, but don't take it personally.     

[waverider]

Like a toddler who packs a bag to run away from home from their evil parents, because they cant watch their fav cartoon. It is a typical overreaction based on emotional immaturity. All attempts at reasoning are futile.

That is the time to back off until the emotion has washed through, otherwise its like trying to tunnel in sand dunes with a pitchfork

[nonbpdis-m]

Thanks for the replies but this having to think three steps ahead all the time just to get through the day is an absolute joke.  All the advice e.g. 'listen to the words rather than watch the actions' is ultimately hot air.  The truth is there is no way to deal with these people even if you have the patience of saint.

[Duped 1]

Thanks for the replies but this having to think three steps ahead all the time just to get through the day is an absolute joke.  All the advice e.g. 'listen to the words rather than watch the actions' is ultimately hot air.  The truth is there is no way to deal with these people even if you have the patience of saint.

Wow I couldn't agree more. I don't think there is any way to have a healthy, intimate relationship with this type of person. You have to constantly be in babysitter mode and prepare for insists, rages, etc

[once removed]

The truth is there is no way to deal with these people even if you have the patience of saint.

"these people" differ from person to person. remember this is a spectrum disorder.

improving any relationship that has degenerated into ongoing conflict is not an easy task. it has to start with us, and thats made no easier when we are hurt, angry, emotionally/physically exhausted.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

and while nothing is a guarantee, if your attitude about the relationship is hopeless, your prospects for a good outcome are substantially lowered if existent.

the question has to be whether you want to explore constructive ways to improve your marriage, or to vent your ongoing frustrations.

[Meili]

Thanks for the replies but this having to think three steps ahead all the time just to get through the day is an absolute joke.  All the advice e.g. 'listen to the words rather than watch the actions' is ultimately hot air.  The truth is there is no way to deal with these people even if you have the patience of saint.

Why do you think that you have to think three steps ahead? Being in a relationship with someone, no matter who the person is, should not be a chess match. Focusing on yourself, your needs, and how you treat your partner is vastly different from "thinking three steps ahead."

In fact, "thinking three steps ahead" is quite the opposite; it's attempting to control and manipulate the situation. That is definitely a recipe for an unhealthy relationship. When release your perceived need to try to control the situation, you are freeing yourself and your partner to actually live and build a healthier relationship together.

As once removed said, as long as the belief is held that "there is no way to deal with these people" is held, then you will not find a way to communicate with your partner.

[Lockjaw]

I am learning to deal with mine better. She also understands me better. I hope I can keep her there.

When she gets in one of her moods, I am like, ok, well we need to go our separate ways. She finally figured out that means I want the argument to stop. Even though I have said, I hate arguing.

I try not to take it personally. It is hard. But then I also try to think about it like what the bible says, love your neighbor as yourself. Its hard and I fail at it alot.

[nonbpdis-m]

Why do you think that you have to think three steps ahead? Being in a relationship with someone, no matter who the person is, should not be a chess match. Focusing on yourself, your needs, and how you treat your partner is vastly different from "thinking three steps ahead."

In fact, "thinking three steps ahead" is quite the opposite; it's attempting to control and manipulate the situation. That is definitely a recipe for an unhealthy relationship. When release your perceived need to try to control the situation, you are freeing yourself and your partner to actually live and build a healthier relationship together.

As once removed said, as long as the belief is held that "there is no way to deal with these people" is held, then you will not find a way to communicate with your partner.

I am thinking three steps ahead because in a way it is a chess game.  One false move and check mate you will have it in the neck (for doing something innocuous like coughing or sneezing incorrectly).  The Non's are not there to take abuse however you want to dress it up (hurt, scared, frustrated), they are the firefighters and once the fire has been distinguished, a single match can and will start a new one.  If I did any of this stuff I would be in jail, BPD is not an excuse for evil.

[once removed]

you do sound exhausted. nonBPDis-m, do you want to improve your marriage?

[nonbpdis-m]

you do sound exhausted. nonBPDis-m, do you want to improve your marriage?

I am physically, mentally emotionally drained.  Yet I am still 'the one causing problems'. I only want a peaceful life and to see my daughter.  If that means being without this woman so be it.  Life's too short to take abuse but I cannot see a way out at the moment.  I am truly in the vortex right where she wants me to be.  There is also the danger of her getting into another volatile relationship in which I would not be there to protect my daughter, as I would obviously be elsewhere. This terrifies me.  At least as it stands now I can take her out of the house BEFORE the storm and let her carry on raging.  My daughter unfortunately could end up being stuck there with no way out, having to endure endless violent rows over nothing.

[formflier]

sometimes 0 correct responses (e.g. 'what do you like best about my body?'.  

Big picture thinking things:  Stepping away from a "right or wrong" answer mentality is likely to be helpful.  Learning skills to give a soft answer that opens a door to further emotions coming out, vice giving a definitive answer that closes a door, is going to help in this situation.

She seems to want to play a game that goes: "Let's find how many ways my partner is wrong... ." and as you have found out, her game... .her rules... .the only thing in doubt is what the score will be.  

Today you are wrong 5-0.  Yesterday you were wrong 2-0.

What if you didn't play the game, or once you realized what game you were in, you left it at 0-0?

her "What do you like best about my body"

you "Now that's a delicious question.  Let me give that some thought."  pause... . "Help me understand the importance of this to you."  Hush... .listen.

What just happened there?  In my opinion, she trotted you out to her playing field and pitched you a fastball.  Instead of hitting it out of the partk, you gently let her know that you were not going to play and you gave her an invitation to the game that you would play.  Up to her to decide to play by herself on her field, or join you on your field.

Keep it simple for yourself.  Stay off her playing field.  She is in the big leagues... .you are junior varsity.


Back to the big picture.  In fact, let's use waveriders example of kitchen sinking.  Especially at first, she's going to toss more stuff at you.

Your job is NOT to convince her that she should not be tossing things at you.  Your job is to step out of the way.  :)O NOT clean up the mess she made in the kitchen floor.  Just don't "catch" what she throws at you.

Last thought for now:

You sound very tired.  That sucks.  I've been there... .I would dare say about everyone on these boards have been there.  

Your desire for a peaceful life is very wise.  Are you ready to examine your r/s (relationship), your life and take steps towards a peaceful life?  

FF

[Sufficating]

I completely relate to this.  My SO is basically unapproachable.  Any small criticism from me turns into my SO tearing me apart.  I don't get acknowledgement.  I don't get an apology.  I get turned on and verbally attacked.  Every personal thing I've shared is used against me. 

[oshinko maki]

I basically agree but just want to note that being saintly is just an ideal to strive in the direction of. Any mortal can do the striving and be a little healthier or mature in how s/he reacts.
I try to be as mature as I can when I react because I know how bad I feel about myself when I fail at it, as I have miserably many times.
And being as mature as I can in reacting to her not only helps me feel better about myself, I think it even helps her not act so horribly. I am seeing that lately, although I know not to count on it, only on the benefits to myself for trying to be mature.
Old story. Buddha knows of a man who hates him. He has the man come to meet him to see if he (Buddha) has really gone beyond hate or aversion. The man visits and spits in Buddha's face. Buddha says thank you, now I know for sure that I have gone beyond hate.
New meaning to turning the other cheek, but still just an ideal, maybe too easily confused with glorifying being a punching bag.
I don't want to be a punching bag and I easily fall into hate about getting yelled at in front of my son for things with no basis in reality, but I don't want to give myself a heart attack about how horrible it is either. Walking away without fighting back is hard, but sometimes the only correct answer is silence. Sorry for sounding like such a know-it-all. I too basically feel like a healthy relationship with a pwBPD is a contradiction in terms, but you yourself can still relate is a healthy way to a pwBPD.