I was popular this morning

[Lockjaw]

So my BPGF starts in this morning, in the shower of all places. She was complaining about things and started complaining about us not letting her take a family picture at Thanksgiving over at my sisters house, since her hubs has stage 4 colon cancer and felt this would be his last Thanksgiving. I mean she was just going on and on about it.

So I asked her, why are you trying to be so controlling about it? She says, I am not. I said, you are so passionate about it, you won't let it go, you just keep on and on, it sure gives the impression you are controlling. I asked her, why is it so important to you that people do what you suggest? Why is it so hard for you to just tell someone what you think, and let it go if they don't do what you suggest? You realize people don't have to listen to you, right?


She of course did what all BP's do, justified her actions. So after the shower, I got dressed and handed her the phone and asked, do you want me to call you on the way to work? She said, I thought we would get out of the shower and cuddle for a little bit before you left.

I was like, oh here we go. I said, baby, do you want to cuddle with me when I am getting after you? Well then here comes the kitchen sink of all the crap I did she didn't like.

I finally said, as nice as I could, that I really like to cuddle and spend time with her, but its not fun when i am being fussed at all the time.

AHHHHH the joys of BP life!

[malibu4x]

Good times my friend!

Had a similar experience this afternoon, but actually the opposite, went from pleasant to grouchy.

Wife:  (checking in on me in my office - I WFH): hey are you feeling better - I know you were exhausted this morning
Me: Yeah, feeling better, but thinking I need to go get some lunch
W: yeah... .well I've been working cleaning up the downstairs all morning
M: that's good, always feels good to do that... .
W: hey since (son) is grounded from electronics this weekend was thinking you guys could finish up the wall repair in his room
M: sure - sounds good
W: oh, and that shelf in your office that is sitting in the corner... .maybe you could hang that up finally
M: yep
W: especially since you never take me out on dates, might as well get something done tonight... .

Good good times!

[jrharvey]

I use to stay mad about stuff but I instantly diffuse now when she is better. If she deregulates and is getting on to me I just stay strong and tell her I am not going to just take those negative feelings she is dishing out. I let her words bounce right off and back to her. She sometimes gets upset but later she is being loving again. Pushing her away just causes more drama and no reason for me to hold a grudge. If she wants to cuddle I will cuddle. I want affection too and I'm down for that until she deregulates again. Usually if I let it go it never comes back again. Its done. No reason to hold on to it.

[ArleighBurke]

W: especially since you never take me out on dates, might as well get something done tonight... .

I'm so amazed at how easily they can inject little snide remarks into most conversations. I don't even think they know it. But if *I* said the same thing - she would jump on that soo quick... .

I used to jump on it - but these days I just let it slide. Do you think they are subconsciously trying to start an argument? (Familiar territory)

[malibu4x]

I used to jump on it - but these days I just let it slide. (Familiar territory)

Yeah, that is what I have done in the past, and then I would be sleeping on the sofa that night... .    really trying to just let it roll... .finding that it works... .   I came downstairs an hour later and she was in a good mood.

Do you think they are subconsciously trying to start an argument?

Not sure... .but there is definitely some pain on her part (in my case) of feeling like I never want to take her out.  It is something that is really important to her... .but 8/10 times  we get into a fight by Weds or Thurs, so by Friday AM I'm canceling the babysitter b/c she is still mad and doesn't want to be around me.

[Lockjaw]

I'm so amazed at how easily they can inject little snide remarks into most conversations. I don't even think they know it. But if *I* said the same thing - she would jump on that soo quick... .

I used to jump on it - but these days I just let it slide. Do you think they are subconsciously trying to start an argument? (Familiar territory)

Mine is a pro at this. I call it taking shots. She was in full on manager mode again this am. So I didn't say much. Then she says, I am doign to do this to you when you want sex. Just give you a blank look. I said, ok.

Then she came back in a few minutes and asked what she could do to help me with my medical stuff. This is what she has a masters degree in, so... .she is very knowledgeable. But sometimes it comes across as managing. So I said, jokingly, make all my appointments for me.

She was upset the other day about what started this, and said no one listens to her. I said, now that isn't true. I listen to you, and you see it in ways, you just don't see it in everything you say.

So anyway, I skipped hunting this weekend and spent the whole weekend with her. Made her some homemade venison stew and cornbread to go with it. She was a happy camper.

I think it helps if I just give her a blank look. And my ADD gets on her nerves too. I had to tell her yesterday, baby, I am ADD, its just how I am. You diagnosed it.

[malibu4x]

Mine is a pro at this. I call it taking shots. She was in full on manager mode again this am. So I didn't say much. Then she says, I am going to do this to you when you want sex. Just give you a blank look. I said, ok.

-- Manager mode?  My wife does this.  She goes from sitting in bed to deciding she needs to step it up - then everyone has to jump in line and start to help cleaning, organizing, etc.  So frustrating b/c she blows off stuff that she has agreed to do  (like do dishes if I make a meal for the family, buy groceries once a week, update the budget, etc.) then something lights a fire under her a** and she is ready to go and do it all - and expects me and the kids join in her drive to get it all done as she dictates orders to divide and conquer.     

-- Is that what you mean?

[Teresita]

"Manager mode" is the perfect description. When my children were young my husband was rarely home before they were in bed and took very little interest in their daily care. Every so often he would decide to make some arbitrary rule, such as instituting a certain bedtime. It took us all by surprise. By the next day it would be forgotten.

[malibu4x]

Every so often he would decide to make some arbitrary rule, such as instituting a certain bedtime.

Yes!   My wife does this.  Although... .she does keep more of a schedule in regards to bedtime, but the management of it is totally up to her.   I'm "required" to follow the 8pm rule with exactness.  For her she tries to follow it and ensure kids are in bed, but if she decides she wants to stay up and watch a movie with them... .  "no problem".   If *I* decide that I want to stay up and finish a movie... .um "No Way! - you know we have a rule!"

[Lockjaw]

-- Manager mode?  My wife does this.  She goes from sitting in bed to deciding she needs to step it up - then everyone has to jump in line and start to help cleaning, organizing, etc.  So frustrating b/c she blows off stuff that she has agreed to do  (like do dishes if I make a meal for the family, buy groceries once a week, update the budget, etc.) then something lights a fire under her a** and she is ready to go and do it all - and expects me and the kids join in her drive to get it all done as she dictates orders to divide and conquer.     

-- Is that what you mean?

yes but it is a more personal thing. As in, she begins to tell me what I need to do and its like having a boss dress you down. Hey, here is your hit list for the day. Get all this done and report back to me on your progress.

I told her one day, I need a girlfriend, not a manager.

It is like she thinks if we are dating that she has unfettered access to everything in my life. She gets to have input. So me and the ex cannot make a decision about our children unless the girlfriend is consulted as well.



Or telling me how I should feel about something.

[Notwendy]

I'm thinking lack of clear boundaries is behind this- also the anger over your ex getting married. If the boundary between where she ends and you begin is blurry, then she is you and you are her. So if you make a decision that doesn't include her ( have a boundary between the decisions you and your ex make and her) this is somehow a violation. And if your ex does something without consulting you, then it also violates her- and she may assume the relationship between you and your ex has blurry boundaries as well.

Enmeshment can occur without BPD as well. What are the rules in her FOO? For some of my extended family, if you invite one or some  of them to an event, and not all of them, they will all get angry. It is as if one can not have a separate relationship with a part of the whole. This idea is intergenerational- we don't even know how it started. It is just that they all have to be invited to something or you have done a terrible thing. There is no confidentiality- telling one person something is the same as telling all of them.

If you were to do something and not tell the others, they would be angry.

Maybe this is something similar to what your GF grew up with. Somehow you broke a "rule" she was taught, not that it has to be your rule too, but it may be hers.

[Lockjaw]

She is an only child. And her mom is like her, and her dad is more like me. He's quiet. Her mom likes to tell her what she needs to do, and she hates it. Yet never seems to be able to see that she is just like her. One time a while back I even said to her, you are your mom and I am your dad. That of course did not go over well.

For some reason, which baffles me, she seems to think if we are dating, that we are a team and I should consult her on all my decisions. If I don't, then I am not a team player, and of course this is why she says she is just not suitable for marriage.

What I said is that just dating the rules are different that living together, or married. Right now, my house, my rules, your house, your rules.

She said yesterday that she wasn't telling me what to do, she was telling me what she would do. I found an article online from the Huff Post about people giving their opinions all the time, and the author likened it to putting out all the time. So the jist is, quit being an opinion slut. I sent it to her and said this pretty much sums up how I feel. Your opinion is valuable when I ask for it, when it is unsolicited, not so much.

She just doesn't seem to get that concept. And she doesn't seem to understand that this is likely why she doesn't have friends. Women don't like her.

When my ex and I were in counseling, I asked the counselor one day while I was with him alone, if I could just tell him something, as a guy, to another guy. He said I could. So I said, my wife is to big a B for what she brings to the table. She had let her appearance go, her attitude sucked, she was lazy, not fun to be with,etc. I told him if she was hot, if she was fun, if she was really good in bed etc, then I could deal with it, but she just doesn't bring anything to the table.

I hate to say that because it sounds shallow, but it was how I felt. My GF is hot. She brings alot to the table, but at times, her B level is so high, I just want to put her on the road and never look back. She says she is a B, and I said to her one time, wow, is that what you want on your headstone? She responded she didn't want to be buried.

So, the long and short of it is there never seems to be a way to get her to look at her behavior when its offensive, and see its offensive. She always finds a reason why its ok.

If I was being an A hole, and you asked me, even in the middle of a very heated arguement if I was being an A hole, I would own it and say yes. She would never.

So now, she is in her mode of I was mean to her because I hung up on her. Kind of like watching the news on TV where a politician is giving an interview and they take something said completely out of context to make the person look bad and that they had a totally different position. You need to hear the interview to understand the snipit. Right?

So rather than her saying, I talked over you, I was rude, I was condescending, I didn't listen to you, and I was trying to manipulate you, and you warned me multiple times before you terminated the call, its just, you were mean because you hung up on me. I didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't ugly to you.

This is the power struggle so to speak. This is how nearly every arguement starts. She runs her mouth. She says something offensive. There is no way to present it to her where she sees it, gets it, or realizes it. She always has some reason, excuse, justification, etc.


And the funny part about this, what is really commical is right after my divorce, I was angry about it. My GF told me I was to bitter, and I needed to work on getting along with my ex better. Now that I do, its a problem. Being bitter was a problem, getting along with her is a problem. So I never win. That is how it works. No matter what I do, I never win. Never hit a home run. Never knock it out of the park. I get to steal a base, at best.

Does that make sense?

Just once, I would love to hear her say, Baby, you knocked it out of the park. You know? That motivates me.

[Notwendy]

We want what we want, and it is important to be clear about that. I think you are self aware of what you like. But you also want her to be different- she has the hotness, but you feel her personality is hard to take. But wanting her to be hot and a different person is wanting her to be different from who she is.

This is the improving board. While it is understandable that we want our partners to be different so that the relationship is better for us, we also know that we can not really change another person. Yet we can work on changing ourselves if we want. A relationship takes two, and if we can only change ourselves- then we need to focus on ourselves when it comes to change. Yes, we can wish the other person was different, but we aren't very effective at making that happen.

She wants what she wants too. In some ways, she wants you to be different, and it frustrates her that you are not. So you both want the other to be different in some ways- but each of you are who you are. It becomes a problem when one makes the other wrong for wanting what they want. She wants more teamwork, and you think that is wrong. You want "my place my rules" and she thinks that is wrong. But what if neither of you is wrong, but just have different ideas about relationships?

You are up front that "hotness" is a desirable quality, but what makes someone "hot" to someone else is part physical and part emotional. For some people, the drama, the push pull, the conflict- is actually part of that attraction. Steady and predictable can be boring for some people. Also, the outside doesn't always match the inside and people are attracted to others on different attributes.

In a way, you may have the relationship you want- hot and dramatic- and also the arrangement that suits you- your own places so you have a place where you can be away from it if you need it. If this works for both of you- then it works. Your part may be to accept the total package- she is who she is. Or if you don't like it- then for a change to be effective- it would have to be on your part.

 

[Lockjaw]

I get that. I have suggested to her as part of the process of moving forward that we each move towards each other and try to adjust some of our behaviors. There are many good qualities each of us possess. There is a lot there for me to love, I just despise all the arguing. And quite frankly, even if we are who we are, we can change things, especially if we believe they are undesireable.

I often wonder if we could see someone and she would listen to that person tell her that some of this needs to change. I know I would likely hear that as well. I believe that would help.

She says I am the best person she has ever been with. And there are times I can easily deal with her. This week I diffused a bunch of issues, and when she got to the whole thing about my ex getting married, I was like, enough. Dang... .

And it turns out, the issue she was so upset about, which is that she didn't tell me in advance, she actually emailed me last friday, I got a new server at work, and it went into spam. So if I would have had a knee jerk reaction and got all over my ex, I would have looked like a fool.

I have worked hard since this summer to mend fences and get me and my ex to cooperate. It required me to step up and be a bigger person. I am not always fond of doing that, especially when it fails. But it seems to work, and my GF thinks because I didn't bow up and act all indignant about my ex getting married and not telling me that I somehow chose my ex over her.

The point I tried to get her to see, and she would see it if she just calmed down and thought about it is that me fussing at my ex does not accomplish anything. It destroys the work I have put in since this summer. It hurts my kids. I told her my ex will  never be the mom that my GF is. I get it. But if she is any better than she is now, that is better than what she is now. No matter how small the improvement, its still an improvement. That benefits my children, and that is the most important thing.

If I could figure out a way to diffuse things more, then I could be happier. I need a way to "reset" her somehow. I think for now the best thing I can do is just have a boundary with her, which is if you are going to talk over me and get angry about all this, I will remove myself from the conversation. I have told her I do not have to stand there and just take her verbal assault.

Its just every week, there is something else. If once a month, way better. You know what I mean? I want to feel like I am doing well. Not sucking, and I feel like I suck. Yet she says that she wants me, and has the stamina to fight for us. I wish she had the stamina to chill.