I can't keep living like this...The Rages Are Horrific

[PhoenixJade]

I've never been in a forum like this... .but when I registered the links led me here.  I've been in this for 2.5 years and we live together (Again) now.  After multiple violent incidents I left a year ago... .the last one the police had to be called.  I avoided it until then.  He drank so heavily and the violent rages began.  The courts ordered him to anger management... .he joined AA and quit drinking.  I found a place to live (but it was so very challenging as I didn't have family support... .only parents living and they shamed me for being so stupid... .)  I felt lonely, isolated, embarrassed and I had a hell of a time getting myself in a work mode... .which made everything become worse as my finances went to hell too.  I selected a very competitive profession then and I had the most difficult time getting focused again.  I still took his calls/texts/saw him but periodically saw Rages again.  I was disoriented, foggy, felt as though I was going to faint often, couldn't collect my thoughts... .I thought perhaps I had a brain tumor or something else was going on.  I went to a doctor and she took tests, asked a number of questions and told me I had PTSD.

She said I needed to get to the root... .medication would only mask it.  She suggested a specialist in PTSD.  I began therapy and eventually I went through EMDR.

After multiple mini-rages in person and over the phone with 'him' I finally said I cannot do this anymore, I cannot subject myself to this anymore and told him to not call/to stay away for good. 

I started to really heal and finally got to a great place the summer of 2016.  I was happy again, clear headed... .I finally had hope again for my future.  I had went to some very, very bad mental places before.  There were multiple times I would have ended it but there was 1 thing/1 obligation I had to my rescue pet and I was not going to leave her. 

I got the call again from him.  He said he had changed.  He had taken the time to sort through things, see the errors of his ways, he was different and wanted to work through things.  I told him I finally got to a wonderful space again.  I finally had put him in my past, made peace with it and I was happier than I'd been in years.

Well, I got myself right back into it.  And we're living together again... .but now we're up in an area that has so much snow, it's pretty isolated and I must drive down a dirt road/right now snow packed... .to go anywhere.  The Rages Are Back... .He has them at least 3-4 times/week.  There isn't alcohol now... .he stopped drinking but the Rages are Still Awful.  He hasn't touched me yet... .one time he came at me and I stood there facing him... .I said don't you touch me... .He stormed off screaming.  He doesn't want to go back to jail.  He Sometimes has a few rages in a day.  I dread weekends... .at least during the week he is at work.

Wow, as I type this I can't believe this is Me.  If I were to see this from the outside I would say... .get out... .Now.

I have some issues now... .

#1.  I am so tired and exhausted over moving.  I sold my home of 16 years last year... .sadly it was because of this relationship.

#2.  I don't want to be reactive, leave and feel isolated and alone again.  I've left a few times since we've been back together the last 3 months... .stayed in a hotel.  I feel so isolated and alone

#3.  Finances... .I'm on a commission basis... .sometimes there are good months... .sometimes nothing. 

#4.  I do not have any hope of him changing these ways.  He won't take medication, after the court ordered therapy he stopped therapy.  He twists and changes things constantly... .he says things played out that didn't happen.

Now... .I want to have a methodical plan to leave. I really hoped this relationship would work... .but I am so tired, so exhausted from his outbursts... .I try and stay quiet.  But he woke up last night (this is another one of his outbursts)... .He wants me to get over to the very edge of the bed because he sleeps in the middle, with an S shape and he doesn't have enough room.  Which means I have a quarter of the bed left.  He has raged at me before on this so many times.  Last night I was fed up... .I said let me take a picture so you can see how much bed I really have (in his mind it's only half the bed, so he says) well that set him off and he Raged and Raged... .said it's His Bed (which it is I sold mine).

I can't live like this anymore... .unfortunately in the midst of that last night I said I couldn't live like that... .I thought everyday how I can leave and I can't be around him anymore.  I didn't want to share my plans with him... .I wanted to get strong, get my head in the right space, I wanted my finances in the right space and I wanted a place in which I feel it's home... .and I don't want to be 'alone'... .I can't have a roommate as I'm worried my rescue cat will get out, etc. 

I want to get everything lined up so I can eventually do this, not look back and stay mentally and emotionally strong.

I don't know how to get my head back in the work game again either... .I'm becoming terribly depressed again.

I don't have the physical energy right now to move... .nor the finances (without depleting what I do have)

After his rages... .he apologizes... .until the next one... .which could be within a half hour of the last one.

[heartandwhole]

Hi PhoenixJade,



I'm very sorry to hear that things are going badly in your relationship again. That is really hard, and I can understand feeling exhausted and run down. Being subjected to rages so often would weaken even the toughest person.

You've found a great place for support. The members here have been in similar situations and understand what you are going through. You'll find tools and resources that will help as well.

I think your idea to make a plan is a good one. Working everything out before your partner becomes aware of your plan will ensure that you are not caught out in the heat of escalated emotions without support and resources. We'll walk with you through this every step of the way.

Feeling alone in the world can hurt so much. I want you to know that you are not alone. And things really can get better for you.

Keep writing, it helps to share.

heartandwhole

[PhoenixJade]

I'm not sure if this is replying to you heartandwhole... .I'm not quite sure how this all works.  I hope it gets to you as I want to Thank You... .thank you for your support, 'listening', nonjudging... .and I exhaled some reading your reply... .especially when I read "you're not alone... .we'll walk you through... ."   Thank you, Thank you for reaching out.  This is pretty darn disconcerting and I'm feeling pretty immobile right now.  My nervous system feels shot at this point.  I somehow need to figure out how to get some rest/some sleep so I can begin taking the steps needed.  I will go through this forum too... .and I just bought "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life"... .I feel like I'm spinning and so want to feel safe in in my home again.  Thank you.

[Larmoyant]

Hi PhoenixJade, and welcome. 

Your post triggered many memories of the all too often abusive rages and I'd like you to know that you are not alone. You'll find many people here with a similar experience. Being on the receiving end of rage like this is toxic and it ends up depleting your whole being and I'm sorry you're going through this. Keep reading and posting and as Heartandwhole says we'll help you every step of the way. 

[Jej]

I'm sorry to read you are in this situation, but it sounds like you've learned what is right for you. Having your plan sounds like an excellent move, and no matter what your partner does it is your plan, he can't access that or take it away. Focus on that during your bad days to give you the strength to move forward. I wish you the best of luck x

[PhoenixJade]

Larmoyant... .thank you much for your post and extending yourself.  Yes, being on the receiving end of rage is toxic (my body is physically just depleted and yesterday after the last incident I was such a tight ball of nerves I couldn't focus).  It is happening more frequently and yes it's depleting my whole being.  My brain just turns to mush too.  I took your suggestion and kept reading last night.  Big hug to you and thank you

[PhoenixJade]

Jej yes... .I just need the energy and focus to keep working on my plan.  I have learned what is right for me and this crazy making/irrational behavior is not okay... .after observing, watching this... .continuing to read more... .talking with an ex-wife a while ago (which also validates my experiences) I can't continue on like this.  People comment how happy I am and they love being around my energy... .how easy it is to be with me and talk with me.  Well they don't see the tears I'm shedding more and more... .it will happen while I'm driving or just sitting on the couch by myself.  It's interesting... .the ex wife reached out to me recently (she thought we had broken up) and said she really liked me and could use being around my happy/positive energy.  I told her we were back together... .she was taken aback.  I did not share with her the continuing incidences.  I did share with her the drinking had stopped but didn't tell her about his rages.  With all this said... .I feel I don't really have a choice in terms of what is right for me... .I'll be an emotional mess (and physical mess) if I stay in this.  My body is on high alarm always now... .never knowing when the next outbreak can be... .I get the brunt of his anger too... .he gets set off easily by others and if things don't go his way... .he takes it out on me.  We could have a lovely, intimate hour and then he gets a call/text from someone... .he doesn't like it and all hell breaks loose and the next thing I know he's attacking me.  I can see it much more clearly now (whereas before I'd ask myself what I'm doing, what's the matter with me)... .however, I see very clearly.  I'm a communicator, I'm a share with me what you're thinking/help me to understand your point of view... .how can we create win/wins.  I like to see how I may help put a smile on someone's face and extend kindness to them.  I've watched how he's been with his daughter (who he doesn't have any type of custody) and it's taken me a long time to see  how he operates and it's not vibing with how I operate and treat people.  Interesting... .after we broke up his daughter sent me a sweet text wishing me happy birthday.  She did not send anything to him on his birthday or father's day.  He took that out on me too/resentful towards me. There's a part of me that feels badly for him... .I think often it's his brain and a mental illness... .but I can't sacrifice my health (and potential safety) because of it.  I watch his mother cater to him, his parents (who are wealthy) bail him out financially (and even when he's not in financial duress... .he may simply want some new very expensive toys and they help him with those)... .they make excuses for him... .and I feel he's too old for this... .in his 40s.  He has a profession but can't seem to live within his means (which is a good salary) ... .that's been a source of contention... .I've expressed my concerns before about this and limiting expenses/big items (and never asking his parents for money... .I don't like that especially if it's not a dire emergency... .it's for 'stuff' and he has Exploded at me.  So yes, I guess I have learned what is right for me.  I used to be able to work hard, focus... .but all of this has taken such a huge toll on me and for some reason my body/brain just shuts down... .usually after another one of his rages.  I'm finding his behavior and way of being in the world very unattractive.  I will focus on my plan during my bad days as you suggested... .thank you so much for your well wishes.

[babyducks]

Hi Phoenix Jade,



I am glad you are with us.   As I read your story so much of it was familiar to me.   I've been pretty much where you have been.

Long story short, I had a very volatile relationship sever because of an act of violence.   Eventually I went back, thinking it was going to be different, I had learned a lot, I was stronger and in a better place.   And it didn't take long before the relationship was off the rails again.   Pretty much the same way you described.   The deliberate sleep deprivation.   my person with BPD always began an argument around bedtime.   the extreme high conflict.    the simplest things were capable of producing amazing arguments.   Our last argument believe it or not was over Valentines day cards.   I gave her three, she didn't like any of them.     the attempts to isolate and manipulate me.   

sleep deprivation is a common theme here.   many of us talk about it.  my honest to god last thought when she said 'you didn't celebrate Valentines day right I am never speaking to you again"  was oh thank god now I can get some sleep.  and I went to bed and slept for 12 hours.    It was wonderful.

as you work your plan, I'd suggest you do what you can to dial down the reactivity.     hold back a little,  don't engage if you can avoid it.    If things get really hot find a way to leave the room, even for twenty minutes.   say, I am going to walk the dog, take the trash out, go to the store, I am going to the bathroom, i'll be back.      Adding the part about being back will help not trigger abandonment fears.   I did the I am going to the bathroom, I will be back a lot.   You would have thought I had a bladder disorder.  there is a link over there on the right hand column ----> called stop the bleeding.   If you haven't found it yet there are good tips in there about how to diffuse conflict and the reasons they work and the reasons why Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining (JADE) our positions cause more conflict.

It's safety first.   If things reach the flash over point just find a way out. 

The other thing I noticed was that you mentioned PTSD.   I was diagnosed with C-PTSD about a year ago.   I am not expert but what I have learned from personal experience is that once exposed to trauma, we are more susceptible to trauma.   I find traumatic events effect me more now than before.   They deplete me quicker.   and linger longer.   What has your experience been?

I am wondering is there any possible way for you to improve your sleeping conditions.  Restorative sleep is crucial for healing.   For me having a safe sleep environment was very important in my C-PTSD.   I don't do it much now but I often created a safe haven in my bedroom where I knew I could retreat and try to relax the hyper vigilance I lived with.

You are the boots the ground so to speak; so you will know best if separating bed rooms will trigger an uncontainable outburst or one you can ride out.   I do wonder if it is worth considering.

as you read on the site, feel free to ask questions,... .work on problem solving with us.   we have all been on the same path you are on.

'ducks

[Larmoyant]

... .I'll be an emotional mess (and physical mess) if I stay in this.  My body is on high alarm always now... .never knowing when the next outbreak can be... .

.

Hi Phoenix Jade, there is no doubt that your emotional and physical health will continue to decline if nothing changes. This is exactly what happened to me and I ended up losing my career over it. I just couldn't focus and started developing health problems. My heart used to race and sometimes it felt like it was trying to escape my body. A text would come in and I'd jump out of my skin in anxiety. All of this has settled down now that I'm in my new place. Any contact with him sets it off again. 

.There's a part of me that feels badly for him... .I think often it's his brain and a mental illness... .but I can't sacrifice my health (and potential safety) because of it. 

I've struggled a lot with feelings of compassion for my ex, and still do, it's a trap for me, but I'm slowly realising that there's little I can do to help him and he doesn't believe there's anything amiss with him. If they have little insight and don't seek help then you can be assured that things will continue just the way they are and it is you who will suffer. You're right you cannot sacrifice your health and safety because of it. It's hard, but turn that compassion towards yourself. Where is his empathy when he decides to offload all of his negativity and rage onto you?

Keep going with your plan Phoenix 

[PhoenixJade]

Ducks... .thank you for pointing out the right side bar... .I wasn't aware of this and I've reviewed it a few times since you mentioned it... .I'm finding it helpful and gives me some tools.  Also, thank you for sharing.  I've thought multiple times how much I'd love to sleep and sleep and not feel any pressure and simply wake up and look forward to a day of love/care and joy.  I used to run over to the window in the morning, open the blinds and say Good Morning World! Not anymore. To answer your question... .The mention of separate sleeping areas will invoke a rage that I can't deal with right now.  I have simply stepped back/not my usual self of forgetting the last incident and 'kissing' making up... .trying to forget the last incident... .my body is breaking down again and I have horrible headaches, body aches.  He started treating me with a bit of warmth last night and apologized about the bed incident (he grabbed a tape measure the next morning so he could Show me how I take over the bed)... .he sheepishly looked at it after I laid down in my usual spot now... .and he visually saw how I am on the edge of the bed. He did this saturday morning.  Last night he apologized, he was off doing his own thing most of the weekend during the day (which I completely welcomed)... .he said he missed me since we hardly saw each other over the weekend... .he said it's unfair of him to act out like that with the bed situation... .I simply listened to him... .and said okay.  He said we need a new bed/larger bed and that should solve it.  I said that's really not the issue at large though... .it's your reaction and rages... .if it's not the bed it is something else.  He said he is making changes (he is trying to catch himself)... .but oh my what I go through.  I have so many memories (and recently... .even from this last week) of the treatment of me.  I couldn't be physically intimate with him this morning and he was Stunned/Upset... .he said why, what's wrong.  I said I'm shut down/I just don't feel close after all these rages and how you've treated me.  Oh boy... .maybe I just don't have the language to manage this.  I feel I have boundaries too and if I don't want to make love I have that right. I didn't say that too him though.  I do feel it.  I could see the internal rage beginning which then turns into something ugly externally (I've seen it all to often... .the horrific eruption)... .I excused myself to use the restroom (as you suggested).  It's not to say I may pay for this later though as he stews today... .I've seen that all too often as well.  I just watched some youtube videos on keeping my vibration high... .I feel I need to focus on my well-being and those things that inspire me .  Thank you so very much.

[PhoenixJade]

Larmoyant, yes I agree and my body is going through all that you described (again).  It is interfering with my ability to self-motivate professionally too.  I'm taking care of what needs to be done but other than that I'm not my go-getter inspired self.  My body is breaking down again.  I listened to something yesterday... .and it struck me in a way that stopped me in my tracks and caused some reflection... .I've often thought about the Law Of Attraction (and I could go on and on about my thoughts on this one... .and my journey/responses to that over the years)... .but now I look at this and say "What if this is Happening For Me"... ."What am I learning through this" and I want to reflect on this... .take it very seriously and consciously move through this experience (so I may hopefully have different experiences down the road).  Yes, thank you for your support, sharing and encouragement... .means so very much.  This forum, people reaching out/sharing, You reaching out is helpful in immeasurable ways.

[formflier]

PhoenixJade



I'm so glad you found us.  You have a safe place to talk about your challenging relationship.  You are already getting really great advice!

Couple things to confirm.

Are you in T now?  I see where you did some EMDR.

What does your support system look like, in addition to T (if you are seeing a T)?

It appears he has stopped T.  Is he open to starting again?  Have you asked?


Last (for now).  Are sleep issues your current "biggest" problem?  I know it can be hard to rank them... .but I understand all to well how difficult it can be to relate to someone when you are not sleeping well.

Hang in there.  I think we can help you improve your life.

FF

[formflier]

  It's not to say I may pay for this later though as he stews today... .

Can you give us some details about "paying for this later" looks like?

Let's look to the future a bit... .

What would it look like in your relationship if he tried to "make you pay" and you didn't pick up the bill?

Imagine at a restaurant if the waiter (your partner) puts a bill on the table for food that you didn't order.  You figure out that arguing with him (trying to convince him that you didn't order it) doesn't work.  So... .what would it look like to just let the bill sit there... .unpaid.  Let him worry about it... .instead of you.

Is this analogy something you can "see" in the dynamics of your r/s?

FF

[PhoenixJade]

Hi FF... .yes I started again (after his rages began again).  He may go/may not.  He absolutely won't take any medications.  Here's the challenge... .he will twist 'truths' over and over again.  I have to repeat what actually happened over and over again... .sometimes I'll see something in his eyes that says yes that's what happened and he'll say "okay"... .but when he twists the truth and outright lies about what happened I don't see how therapy can/will help him.  That is not my responsibility though.  At one point I insisted he go if I were to stay with him.  He started it... .then stopped.  Then was court ordered to attend.  That lasted for 9 months (because the court ordered it... .he hated it).  At this point my responsibility is to me now and to do what I need to for my own well-being.  It's also a very clear pattern with him... .when he sees I pull back after a rage/his rages (he apologizes) or when he wants sex he becomes nice and loving... .I forgive and think it's going to be better... .then it happens again. After sex his anger about something (even if it doesn't have to do with me... .but someone else)... .typically shows up within an hour to 2 after sex.  He becomes angry about something.   I fully believe it's his perception about life and perhaps his body is accustomed to whatever chemicals are released in the body during his anger/rages.  He will get within inches of my face and Scream at me.  Sadly at times I react and defend myself... .but that's not who I am... .not how I want to deal with life.  He started using pot regularly at 13... .until I met him (he was 40).  I shared with him if he uses that's fine for him but I won't date someone who does.  I don't judge it... .it's just a choice I've made for myself.  He said he'll stop... .he didn't like how he became addicted to it.  I think the use of pot has warped/changed his pre-frontal cortex/his brain.  I appreciate your well wishes.  I clearly see the same patterns with him, over and over again.  For myself... .I'm reading "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life"  I feel the author has viewed my life directly/got in my head.  I'm the caretaker in this (and I really had no idea how clearly this plays out... .until reading this book)... .not finished yet.  Also, I found this which I'm loving and look learning from this successful FBI Agent in high stakes/life threatening situations during negotiations "Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator".  My support system you ask... .are a couple friends with whom I recently shared my situation (who was aware before of what happened)... .they are concerned about my physical welfare... .that he may go over the edge again.  It's like a Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde.  

[formflier]

Thanks for the reply post... .good information.

Trying to boil down some fundamental truths that you are expressing, if I get them wrong... .please tweak them a bit.

1.  He is an angry person that regularly rages at you, expresses remorse and returns to being angry and raging.  "most of the time" he is angry, raging, or you can see some sort of simmering.  Do I have this right?  Is this who he is?

2.  That he has promised changes, but other than brief periods, those changes really don't stick around.

Again... .do I have this right?


FF

[PhoenixJade]

FF... .that's an interesting analogy, hmmmm.  I get what you're saying.  Yes, it's a problem I have... .I do 'stew' and try to figure out how to fix it/perhaps change ugly consequences if he may not get his way... .at first I didn't at the beginning of this relationship (I figured that was his to deal with and I have a life and choices to make for myself) but somehow that changed... .I experienced his tantrums and rages if he didn't get his way and looking at the dynamics of this I see how this evolved (and my part in this... .)

He seems to have shown some insight along the way... .he will share with me how he can/does throw a tantrum if he doesn't... .he has said, it's 'like a little kid'... .yet he still does it.  He has said it needs to stop.  As I write this though... .and reflect... .I see him blame me still and tell me I drove him to it in some way... .I see him justify it so often.

To answer your last post... .yes, you do have it accurate... .both item 1 & 2.

Which finally has brought me to this forum... .I don't have hope anymore (based on what I've witnessed) that it will be permanent change (or at least not be such a regular occurrence)... .

I hear words, I see a glimpse (after I leave, after I 'shut down' because I'm just so tired, so exhausted) of 'change' but it always goes right back.  In my paragraph above I mention this.

Thus, I need to accept this is who he is/what he does.  I don't care at all to be on the receiving end of this (and also hear his blasts at other people... .he won't do it to their face though... .I get to hear the awful things he says/and witness the rage behind closed doors)

I get people are angry sometimes... .but this is too much for me.  In fact his 13 year old daughter will now have to go into a 6-9 month psychiatric facility because she has lost serious control a few times and has threatened/hurt people and animals)

I think this may be a genetic condition.


So I now need to have a plan, get myself to a good space, take care of myself.  Have a good support system.  I've been having chest pains all morning.   

Made an appointment to see my T this week after your last post.  I most likely will need to have that support on a regularly/weekly basis now as I deal with this again.

Thank you FF

[formflier]

I don't have hope anymore (based on what I've witnessed) 

    On calling your T and setting up an appointment.  I go weekly, sometimes more.  Likely it will be that way for a while... .  I've found that my life works better, when I have a professional that knows my situation and can help guide me... .and help me look at my part in it (things that can change) and her part (things that are).

My T has helped me develop some empathy for my wife's situation and FOO, while at same time establishing boundaries against their crazymaking behavior.

Full disclosure:  I see a lot of "me" in your posts.  I came to these boards without hope... .much like you.  I scoffed at the idea that I played a roll... .after all... .she was the crazy one.  I was guided to understand boundaries, understand my role... .understand what I have POWER over... .and the humility to accept what I don't have POWER over.

Gaining hope:  When I survived my first "extinction burst" (link below) and held to my boundary... .I got a glimmer of hope back in my life.  My wife "got worse" (for a time) and I got better.  My life got better... .my r/s got better... .family was more stable (I have 8 kids).

Once I realized that I have power and control over my life... .in fact once I realized I have a responsibility to exercise that control... .I got hope back in my life.


extinction burst

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

The lessons that you can learn her are powerful for your life, regardless of your staying or going decision.  That decision is yours alone to make.


Last for this post:  You have an appointment with your T, several books you are reading, you are posting regularly here... .      Off to a good start.

What are you doing to take care of you?  What can be done to "take that up a notch" for the next few weeks, while you are processing all this new information and making decisions about your r/s?

Again... .... .I've got hope for your future.  I predict you will feel that soon as well... .

FF

[PhoenixJade]

This has been so very helpful... .thank you all for your support, advice-guidance... .my head is clearing more and I'm learning so much from the tools and all of you/others sharing their stories and experiences.  My eyes are welling right now in gratitude.

FF... .the 'extinction burst'... .wow had no idea about this theory... .okay, I am processing all of it and I see how it's useful to know about the 'extinction burst'

Also, FF as I went through my day I kept going back to your question "What am I going to do for myself the next couple weeks" and even thinking about it brought a smile here.  Yes, I am going to do some of those things that bring me pure joy, that is helpful for Me... .my spirit and body.

I am sending everyone a warm, huge hug.   

[formflier]

Please post details of your self care.  Compare it to how you used to do it.

I'm glad to get a smile... .I'm glad you are planning to take better care of yourself.  Looking forward to the details.

You are on the road to a better place... .

FF

PS:  Regarding extinction bursts:  Lots of the ideas and tools we teach on this website seem odd, shocking, counter-intuitive... .(you can find your own word to sum up... ."that doesn't make sense".  Go slow with assimilating this information.  It's like learning a foreign language.  Post your questions here.  

I'll give you a hint at the impact of "extinction burst".  Boundaries, done correctly, will usually result in worse behavior from the pwBPD, at least at first.

Your first assignment is to succinctly state why that is the case... . 

[babyducks]

Hi Phoenix Jade

He seems to have shown some insight along the way... .he will share with me how he can/does throw a tantrum if he doesn't... .he has said, it's 'like a little kid'... .yet he still does it.  He has said it needs to stop.  As I write this though... .and reflect... .I see him blame me still and tell me I drove him to it in some way... .I see him justify it so often... .

Which finally has brought me to this forum... .I don't have hope anymore (based on what I've witnessed) that it will be permanent change (or at least not be such a regular occurrence)... .

I picked up on this in what you wrote.    I certainly have been in a similar place myself.   I would suggest it's important to have a good understanding of this new information you are finding, allow some time for the information you are getting here and through your reading to absorb and settle.  Most of us arrive here in crisis of some sort.    Takes a while for the picture to come together.

You would think if a person has an insight that they are 'throwing a tantrum like a little kid', they will take some actions to stop or change it.    As you know, that isn't how the traits of BPD manifest.  a pwBPD (person with BPD) will project, offload, push their problem and the responsibility for it onto some one else.   Normally the person closest to them.   

A lot of times here we use the phrases mental illness and personality disorder interchangeably.   They aren't exactly the same though.    Mental illness usually responds to medication.   Mental illnesses are easier to diagnosis.    Mental illness don't have quite the stigma associated with them.    Personality disorders don't often respond to medication.   They are harder to treat because they are embedded in the personality.   (Who thinks there is anything wrong with their personality?       No one.)  Both mental illness and personality disorders exist on a spectrum.   From very high functioning to very low.

 Effective change means altering a lifetime of experience and default patterns.   Permanent change is possible but hard to come by.   It's important to have realistic expectations of what that looks like.   This quote is from the front page of this website.


Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.


We spend a lot of time here, talking about how diffuse conflict.   There is a lot to learn and very little of it comes naturally.   It takes time to develop the skills and tools we talk about in the tool bar to the right and in the workshop section of this site.  (workshops,  go to the Boards tab above and then scroll down)

How is the rage level right now?   And how are doing handling it?    In high conflict situations, it's difficult to think clearly.   It's hard to not recoil or respond when attacked.  I had to develop a catch phrase, an automatic response that I could rattle off when things got bad.   Mine was something like "this conversation has gotten difficult for me, I need to take a break now, I'll talk to you later, see you later", whatever fit.  the calmer I could say that, the better it worked.   staying in the conversation, staying within earshot of the rage is often times problematic.   It's raises the level of emotion in the room,   and can add stress to a an already dsyregulated person.   

I know that's a lot to absorb.    There has actually been a lot of high level detailed information in this thread.   I would suggest you start simple,  start with the very basics.    If the rages are at a level ten right now, a good goal would be seeing if they can be moved down to a level nine.   Does that make sense?   Try the simple skills first, see if you can gently extract yourself from a rage so you are not on the receiving end.   Know that this will be difficult and don't jump into the deep end of the pool, so to speak.   It will be new for you and new for him.

let us know how you are doing.

best wishes
'ducks





   

[PhoenixJade]

Ducks, hello... .Thank you.  It's very sobering (what you've written) and it's important for me to hear it/to understand clearly what I'm dealing with.  It is a lot to absorb and I did arrive here in a 'crisis' state.  Your advice to see what can be done to dial the rages down a notch, then another notch is wise advice and I will keep that at the forefront when it happens again.

To answer your question about the rages now... .he hasn't had a blown out rage for a few days.  The last was this last weekend (when I arrived here).  I was quiet, kept to myself... .did encourage him to take as much time as he needed this weekend (for his hobbies).  I couldn't bring myself to return affection when he bent to kiss me... .he asked what was wrong in which I replied that it's difficult for me right now to relax, be affectionate after the treatment (and the awful treatment the last week).  I wasn't acting this way to punish him... .I truly just went internal and I simply felt beaten.


Thus, his acting kinder... .no rages this week (he has been working)... .and he's trying to bond with me.  I'm using the tools I'm learning through this.

I say it's sobering because what you wrote stopped me dead in my tracks... .I am dealing with an emotionally stunted adult... .you explained the personality disorder, referenced the first page of the site, etc... .and I deeply want a mature partner... .someone with whom to grow, share adult conversations, have each others' backs/support when life challenges roll around and when the inevitable heartbreaks happen (ie losing loved ones)... .having a home that's a sanctuary and a peaceful place in which to have as a beautiful reprieve from the rest of the world.

Perhaps that's simply not realistic.  I don't know.  If I don't have that partner perhaps I should live/be alone.  I have to think about all of this.

Yes, there's much to assimilate and I'm taking it one step at a time... .and processing it all.

I won't make any immediate decisions... .I'm taking time to get to know me again, my wants, desires... .and take better care of my health.

The level of advice, support and information here is truly exceptional... .I feel that I've been in a tornado, spit out blind, then swooped up in the tornado again.  This forum and you/everyone has been an eye in the storm.

Thank You

[formflier]

Couple big picture things about wanting a "mature partner".

Right now you don't have one.  No doubt.  You will never know how much he can grow and mature, until you let him deal with his own emotions and thoughts.  Yes... .there is an appropriate level of empathy and emotional support that we as partners should provide, but many of us (me included) struggle with "staying in our lane" in our relationships.

So... .for your partner to grow, his best chance is for you to get inside your boundaries and be the best you that you can be. 

No guarantees on the outcome, but I'm sure about the "big picture method". 

Frankly, there is a lot of work involved in what I have proposed.  Regardless of the outcome of your r/s, I believe you will be a more mature person as a result of your efforts.

   

Lots to think about.  Don't rush it.  Let the uncomfortable feelings stay for a bit.  They don't need to be fixed... .you need to understand where they come from.

FF

[babyducks]

Phoenix Jade,

I am quite glad to hear that the rage is less in evidence at the moment.   No doubt you needed the respite.

I am really happy to hear that you've found this site helpful.   None of us here are experts.   All we can do is share our own experience.   You're experience will be uniquely your own.   Human beings are so wonderfully complex.

What I found to be true for me is that making changes to the way I reacted, and acted, making adjustments to what I brought to the relationship did add more stability.  In my case, my partner was diagnosed Bipolar 1 and BPD.   (There is a lot of cross over in the Cluster B family.)    There was never a time where the Bipolar/BPD did not influence decisions, and actions, choices and responses.   

Which isn't all that abnormal really.  If my partner had been diagnosed with cancer I am equally sure that the cancer would have affected all of our decisions, and many of our choices and responses.

I noticed you are reading Margalis Fjelstad's book: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.   What a great book.  I thoroughly enjoyed it.   Learned a great deal.

If I recall Fjelstad's talks about the instability of a Borderline or a Narcissist breaking it down into 5 categories.   I recognized a lot of familiar behavior in those 5 categories.  From the very large things like you described.   No one who has ever experienced the volcanic rage of BPD/NPD will ever forget it.   To small things like the chameleon like behavior and morphing into the person they are with.

You are right.  This is a great forum.  And many people have worked hard to put together the best possible resources.   I found it helpful to get input from multiple sources and rely, rely very heavily on the tools and sidebars that pop up on the tops and sides of the page.   

The realization that the partner we had chosen is not quite what we had thought is a tough one.   While there is relief to learning about BPD and other comorbid disorders, it is also, to be sure, a heavy blow.

take care of yourself.

'ducks

[cbm419]

i would find my exBPDbf would allow just enough time in between rages (where he'd lay the loving, picture perfect partner behavior on thick) for me to slightly forget how terrifying, abusive and one sided these situations were.

he was really good at being exactly what i wanted when he was not in his rage state. he also could portray the wounded little lamb like a pro, seem vulnerable, sad, "I just want love and snuggles with you".

in these better moments, if i wanted to dialogue on what happened when he was raging, he would really only engage if I accepted some form of blame or responsibility.  Or disarmed from my view that these episodes were JUST NOT OKAY. If i didnt, I'd be met with a stonewall of "you just dont get me, dont get it, will never understand me."  a lot of "you didnt have my past, you dont understand what happened to me." If i kept poking at him when he was in this mode, it would usually lead to a new episode of rage.  So for me to get any kind of closure, I had to continuously capitulate I was part of the problem, which created a dangerous long term situation... .because ultimately, I shouldnt have to accept blame for being struck, screamed at, cheated on... .these are inappropriate and cant be rationalized... .all the healthy people in my life just didnt understand why i stuck around... .however the "love" felt so addictive and so out of this world good when everything was "good."

i felt like i was being held hostage and utimately developed some kind of weird stockholm syndrome toward him.  

My relationship was essentially a mine field. it became like torture.

I know there are a lot of great people on this board who have committed to staying with their BPD, and offer great tactics to moderate these relationships and, over time, improve them.  But my guess is 9/10 of these folks are married with kids to these BPDs or the BPD is a blood relative.

I would encourage you to, in no way, change your mind because you think you can manage him with these tactics. You are like an addict in recovery right now, your weak, hes your drug of choice.  And it can look appealing to read some hopeful messages here and pyschological "tricks" to fix these relationships.  I know that i found this site in year 2 of three of my relationship.  I was on the cusp of complete no contact and never seeing this person again. Then, I started reading a lot of nice ideas about JADE, FOG, boundary control, validation- very convincing.

But I tried. and kept trying. My BPD always found some way to keep me on my toes, be totally unpredictable.  theres no gaurantee these tactics will work.  And when they fail, the backlash can be worse than what it was before.  Extinction bursts and boundary enforcement can blow up in your face.  Trying that got me beat, bruised, bloodied... .cheated on more ferociously and unhealthily (im lucky i dont have an STD).  these ideas work for some, but its my sense these are relationships where the partner and the BPD both share immense willingness to make it work for some really valid reason, like kids.

I have had to go through surgeries to fix my body from the abuse i experienced trying to enforce a boundary.  know that these people are pretty dangerous, and if he's going into a rage, he probably wont have too much control over how far it will go.

I would make it your number 1 priority to get the F out of this mans life for good.  :)ont wait. there must be someone out there who can help you do this sooner (and I know how isolating these relationships are and how they tend to obliterate your social life, thats something BPDs are great at creating).

I'm sorry to be so harsh and so urgent, its just after reading about your BF... .he sounds very similar to mine and that is a dangerous situation.  A lot of the tools this sites list are, as board members will tell you, initially disruptive and confounding to the BPD. they arent worth playing around with too much unless you really want to make your relationship work. which you shouldnt.

you deserve to have real love.  these relationships are not that and your bf sounds like he could really hurt you.

[cbm419]

And sorry to double post... .but your post where you describe his relationship with his ex, his daughter, his parents... .his resenting you over his failure to be a positive presence in his daughters life? His enabling parents? he makes good money and still cant manage to live within means in his 40s?

most importantly, Ive done a ton of work with my therapist to understand this disorder and my ex.  the one thing my therapist said over and over is that getting better from BPD takes two things from the patient:

1. an extreme willingness to do a lot of hard work, intense therapy. a willingness to truly change ones self and walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

2. TIME! my therapist had a BPD in his life and really empathized with how complex my feelings were.  But one thing he said over and over is "your BPD is in his twenties.  These people typically dont change without really hard work and time.  Its not until their late 30s or 40s that their condition truly goes into remission.  And the reason for that is they get older, they don't have as much energy, and simply cant maintain the drama level anymore.  yours is already in his 40s but seems very acute, very intense still.

I have been reading your story, reflecting on my own experience and A) you sound like an awesome, sweet and caring person (great qualities which are liable to sometimes be taken advantage of by others) and B) your BPD is really really REALLY bad and seems to have zero potential to get better inside of this relationship any time soon.  Cheers to him for quitting alcohol- very tough, a dangerous habit.  But he still rages in, your own words "horrifying ways."  You've walked out of his life because he wouldnt change for you before, and hes shown, again, this time he will not change for you, even if it means losing you.  You already did that and he did not get better. He has demonstrated zero willingness to get better in his actions.  Sure, he promises you he'll change, say he wants to, will play nice for a day, a week, maybe a month.  But sounds like its just a matter of time.  And he wont even go to therapy.  If he really wanted to change, he wouldnt fire the therapist when the court order is fulfilled.  He has enabling family members, and it seems plenty of resentment piled up at you... .thats really a like a heap of kindling waiting for a match.

I think you should get out of there ASAP and not fiddle around with the tactics on this site. this guy sounds like he is a very low functioning, dangerous BPD who has very low self awareness of his problems, let alone little willingness to change them.

Mine was a young, undiagnosed (at the time), extremely low functioning BPD who did NOT think he had any problem and when i started playing the boundary enforcment game it literally ended with broken bones for me. Yea, for little disagreements it had a nice way of helping my side of the fight... .but when i tried to enforce during a rage, all bets were totally off and his reaction was like 10x anything i had  seen before... .and prior to that incident, there was zero physical abuse in the relationship.  After it, when he saw he could do it and "get away" with it, essentially, it became another part of his tool box when he wasnt getting his way. almost all rage episodes after that ended with him intensely threatening violence or   doing it... .in fact i think he followed thru and did it more than he ever threatened and stopped himself.

[cbm419]

And just one final thought- I can SOO relate to your complaint that this relationship has made your brain into mush, physically drained you and emotionally/spiritually robbed you.

I had the same exact problem.  I used to be a very strong writer, great command of language and quick witted.  I am TERRIBLE at this stuff now.  I can barely make sense of my own posts on this site sometimes. I've been detached from my BPD for a while now and I'm still trying to recover my motivation, thought coherence, overall sparkle for life.

Its like these people take up free rent in your head, and slowly munch away at your ability to think cohesively, feel the old, healthy emotions you used to... .and the deeper you get the more space they get.  Once you leave, as you have said already yourself... .you dont get it back overnight.  it takes healing.

And also- I used to work on a commission job and understand how important motivation and overall serenity is to keeping that money coming in.  Which is why i am concerned for your strategy- I think you mentioned saving up a bit, while simultaneously using some of this site and book resources to moderate your life at home.

Let me just say... .when I decided to play home-therapist/referee to my BPD, it made the relationship MORE consuming not less.  and it never worked.  none these are fail safe. I would imagine a lot of time and energy must be expended before the tactics suggested here and elsewhere really mitigate the BPD to the point that you are getting your time/life/energy back for yourself.

So i naturally worry that sticking around until you can make money, thinking you can "learn" your way to coping until you have enough to "get out" could royally backfire. because learning about and chaperoning this disorder is a bigger commitment than what you were doing before.  you will feel less motivated and more drained than ever before... .and it will take time for that to change.  Meanwhile- why bother working so hard, learning so much about BPD if your long term plan is to leave after all this is done?

seriously. It will be hard to be kickin butt at work and function at home with this man all at once.  And like I've said previously, this guy is acute. There is no guarantee you wont end up in a hospital too in the wake of an extinction burst.  and that will really be disruptive to your life in big ways, no?

I would really not wait. its not worth your time or effort to manage this sick person's illness and I dont think it will work out very well either.

just 2c from someone who tried a lot of this stuff... .tried to "learn" and "intellectualize" their way into a solution.  It wont work. you are not his therapist. no amount of your own mental gymnastics will make the crazy less crazy or this relationship more managable, without some extreme williness from him and i dont get that sense from your posts.  The more effort i put in, the more enmeshed and engulfed i became, and I found myself failing everywhere else in life at the expense of the guy i would sarcastically call "project boyfriend." Or "operation: Boyfriend." its not worth it.

[cbm419]

Hi FF... .yes I started again (after his rages began again).  He may go/may not.  He absolutely won't take any medications.  Here's the challenge... .he will twist 'truths' over and over again.  I have to repeat what actually happened over and over again... .sometimes I'll see something in his eyes that says yes that's what happened and he'll say "okay"... .but when he twists the truth and outright lies about what happened I don't see how therapy can/will help him.  That is not my responsibility though.  At one point I insisted he go if I were to stay with him.  He started it... .then stopped.  Then was court ordered to attend.  That lasted for 9 months (because the court ordered it... .he hated it).  At this point my responsibility is to me now and to do what I need to for my own well-being.  It's also a very clear pattern with him... .when he sees I pull back after a rage/his rages (he apologizes) or when he wants sex he becomes nice and loving... .I forgive and think it's going to be better... .then it happens again. After sex his anger about something (even if it doesn't have to do with me... .but someone else)... .typically shows up within an hour to 2 after sex.  He becomes angry about something.   I fully believe it's his perception about life and perhaps his body is accustomed to whatever chemicals are released in the body during his anger/rages.  He will get within inches of my face and Scream at me.  Sadly at times I react and defend myself... .but that's not who I am... .not how I want to deal with life.  He started using pot regularly at 13... .until I met him (he was 40).  I shared with him if he uses that's fine for him but I won't date someone who does.  I don't judge it... .it's just a choice I've made for myself.  He said he'll stop... .he didn't like how he became addicted to it.  I think the use of pot has warped/changed his pre-frontal cortex/his brain.  I appreciate your well wishes.  I clearly see the same patterns with him, over and over again.  For myself... .I'm reading "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life"  I feel the author has viewed my life directly/got in my head.  I'm the caretaker in this (and I really had no idea how clearly this plays out... .until reading this book)... .not finished yet.  Also, I found this which I'm loving and look learning from this successful FBI Agent in high stakes/life threatening situations during negotiations "Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator".  My support system you ask... .are a couple friends with whom I recently shared my situation (who was aware before of what happened)... .they are concerned about my physical welfare... .that he may go over the edge again.  It's like a Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde.  

oh. dear. god.

the constant gaslighting- reinventing the past, reorganizing memories into a new set of events that never actually happened. and the sexual soothing component to this relationship. do you think he cheats on you? has he cheated before?

my exBPD would digest many of his rages and return to some semblance of normal thru sex. slowly, he would be dissociating... .giving me that emotional silent treatment, then would get horny.  his standoffish-ness would dissolve into what, on reflection, was a child-like expression of affection.  he would get all innocent, act all cute (he had this puppy dog face with the innocent eyes and everything)... .say how much he truly loves me and slowly snuggle his way into a really intense session of makeup sex.  this was our most common pathway of resolution after a rage.  it was rage, silence, more silence, capitulation towards intimacy, great sex then sleep.  and what was weird is all the behaviors in this cycle mirrored almost child like behaviors.  the rage was always tantrum like. over something immutably small and unimportant that suddenly is life or death. the tantrum was followed by brooding... .complete physical silence, or emotional silence- lots of "you dont get me, you cant understand me" (like a childs angst against a parent in teenage years), then he would get all cute... .snuggly... .he'd want lots of kisses, would kiss me with pursed lips all over my face, not a lot of tongue, rather more "loving kiss' than "making out." then it would evolve into passionate full on make-up sex and voila. when we're done hes taking me into his arms and being his loving self until next time... .

the craziness was... .if i exerted a boundary during his tantrum phase, and made him leave. he would go find someone else to hook up with and come back like a sad, broken boy and act all pathetic.  he would quickly admit he found sex elsewhere, because i made him leave.  I made him feel abandoned, rejected.

these periods never lasted more than a couple hours. which goes to show how aggressive his appetite for sexual soothing would become in the face of agitation.

[PhoenixJade]

Hi FF... .yes but no one has let him be accountable... .I have set boundaries and I'm told how 'mean' I am... .so many times a small tirade or a full blown out rage ensues.  My last house I had plenty of holes in the wall and furniture destroyed from him.  The recent one was last weekend in this new house... .he broke my bedside lamp after getting upset that I 'dare' say that I wasn't taking up half the bed... .it was only a quarter on the edge.  A rage ensued because I said no... .I am not.

He's never been held accountable... .people holding him to boundaries.  He goes to his mother when he gets upset and she soothes it, agrees with him... .it literally makes my stomach churn at the enmeshment of his parents.  It's really quite a turn off.  I hadn't realized how much he goes to her every time he has a 'problem'.

She backs off when he yells at her... .tiptoes around him.  It's not good.

I'm clearly seeing things... .and I am becoming more and more disgusted.  If I were to share all the horrific things that happened during the alcoholic rages... .maybe I should write a screenplay and monetize the situation.  My hunch is though, sadly, it's quite a few women's experiences.

I recently went through a wood floor panel of a house and he was more worried about the furnace vent than me.  He ran down stairs to look at the floor vent... .then back up again. Yelling about the vent getting damaged... .oh my god, oh my god he yelled.  Not concerned about me.  One leg went through a floor board so I had to relax and catch my breath.  The rest of the floor was solid... .I just went through a vent that didn't have a vent cover.  He came back up and said you need to get up.  I said I needed to relax, catch my breath... .my leg was badly hurt.  He disregarded what I said, grabbed me under the arms and I said no, leave me alone for a sec I need to relax and catch my breath.  He didn't... .he forced me up and my foot got caught and tangled.  2 months later my foot is still not okay... .I still can't stand on it for any length of time.

Maturity... .me giving him the space to grow up?  He really doesn't suffer the consequences because he has mom/dad bail him out.  I've heard them make excuse, after excuse, after excuse for him and they blame everyone else for his problems.  I've listened to them say what a bad lot he's had and how awful his ex is, etc.  It's very uncomfortable for me.

No, regardless what I do I don't see him maturing.  I've never experienced anything like these dynamics in my life.  I don't have friends who act this way.  When I have I cut them out of my life.  Needless to say we don't do anything with my friends... .I get together with my friends by myself.

I've attempted to cut him out several times and now here I am again.  But, this forum is helping immensely. I have a plan to move through this and I want to do things differently when I leave.  I have tools to help manage all of this.  I see more clearly and have acceptance more so than I ever had before.

I am on pins and needles all the time... .we're supposed to decorate a christmas tree and I dread that... .I never know when something that should be just fun, warm and wonderful will turn into a nightmare.

Still processing all of this I'm learning and taking care of myself as best I can.  My head is getting more and more clear with this situation.

[formflier]

No, regardless what I do I don't see him maturing.  

This sounds defeatist.  It does matter what you do.

Perhaps he understand that people don't think he will mature.  So... .why should he?

Giving him space to mature is no guarantee... .but it can't hurt.  We know for sure that what is going on right now doesn't work... . Right?

FF

[cbm419]

Honestly whether he can mature or not seems unimportant.

when someone is acting dangerously and wrecking the environment around them, the biggest concern is for the safety of the OP. its only a matter of time before the fists go in her face instead of the wall.  Or he throws something in a rage and it injures her.

FF I have always loved your posts and have found your insight to be very poignant, but I think your providing an overly intellectualized analysis of this members situation.

this gentleman sounds very very dangerous. and as I've mentioned in this specific thread, we have to account for how employing a lot of the tools this site teaches can, initially, result in greater, more intense reactions than the partner has yet seen.

I'm not exagerrating at all when I say I had my eye socket collapsed after trying to enforce boundaries when my BPDex started to rage at me. Kinda right after i learned that tactic here. I will now have titanium plates in the left side of my face. for life. my BPD did not want to get better, and truly believes there is nothing wrong with him.

I dont like to seem pushy, but I guess I'm pretty passionate about the topic of how dangerous and unpredictable a BPD can be.  Especially when they have low self awareness of their disorder and very little willingness to change.

From what the OP has posted, it sounds like this is exactly what her partners issue is. he does not seem willing to change, or acutely aware of how inappropriate his rages are. the tools this site teach work great when the BPD is self aware and desires to get helped. 

dont want to rant and ramble, but I just feel discouraged that we are overlooking safety in favor of an academic analysis with suggestions that sort of downplay how toxic and dangerous these type of people can be