Trying to help my sister who is divorced with children

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi- I am at the end of my rope with my sister ("Becky". After her divorce about 20 months ago, she has gone through an increasingly turbulent period that shows no sign of slowing down, and her behavior has led to two psychiatrists diagnosing her as having BPD. She is seeing one of them at the moment every 2 weeks, and she is supposed to go to group therapy every week, but she is not doing the latter (I am in touch with the psychiatrist so we make sure she goes, the group she is on her own).

Her situation is getting more and more volatile now because she has sole custody of her two daughters, ages 10 and 7. Not only do I question how effectively she is parenting them (she has the skills and experience to be an excellent mother, but I find her personality to be extremely difficult in small doses, so I cannot imagine how her young daughters are coping); but she has persistently expressed her desire to give up custody of her daughters, over an 8-9 month period now. The kids know- at some level- that their mother is not interested in being their mother. And in my mind, a person who repeatedly and loudly disclaims responsibility for her own children is an unfit parent almost by definition.

But what to do?

Her ex lives 3000 miles away. He has said that he would "absolutely take care of his daughters" and that the only reason he has not taken them yet is because the youngest is very attached to their mother (true) and because he thinks Becky is not in her right mind when she says what she says, and that she will regret giving them up. But his situation is not stable- his main source of financial stability is his new fiance- without her, his situation is tenuous, he has no steady work and no family. He is a loving father, perhaps willing but not the most able.

Meanwhile, Becky- knowing all this about their father and having an even worse opinion of him besides (she alleges that he has a drug and drinking problem and that he has a temper. I personally don't know to what degree I believe this- not that I actively disbelieve it, but literally, I don't know what is true anymore because so many things have been alleged)- Becky still expresses her desire to give up custody of her daughters to him.

She says that this is so they will "have a better life" (he has a nice house now because of his fiance); and because she can "never recover" her old life (she had a nice job and they had a nice house together). But anyone who observes the situation concludes that her desire seems to be more about her desire to spite her ex (as in "here, you deal with them" perhaps a resentment towards her children because they are his children (she views her whole marriage as a big mistake); or perhaps a creeping sense of dread that she is an unfit mother because of her mental illness. I don't know what it is, but it's got very little to do with "a better life" for the girls.

Her personality has gotten very weird. She has given up on any incremental things. Plenty of people want to help her with little things to help her make gains in her life. She won't even change her driver's license (she moved to her old home state, but she still has her old license from when she was married and lived in another state). She'll agree to do it, but then not do it. Because of this, she can't get health insurance. She sometimes doesn't cash her paychecks. She doesn't follow up with people who want to help her. All she is interested in is going on dates. She has dated, I think at least 5 different men since the breakup- and gotten engaged to 3 of them, all of which broke off. She had one engagement to a man who is much older than her- 15 years or so- and who has a lot of money, but a bad temper who controls her. She misses him and wants to go back to him.

And she is interested in getting a "better" job- she has two right now that are low paying but adequate and offer some growth opportunity- but she is completely disdainful of them and sees them as a stepping stone. She seems to believe that if she gets a good job, then she can (I think) keep the girls adequately, BUT... .then I caught her trying to give away the girls 2 weeks ago while she was actively being considered for a great job (which would make no sense).

She is completely hell bent on giving away her kids- preferably to her ex, and if not him, then to his brother and sister in law (which would be a spite to her ex, since he is in a feud with his brother)... .and getting married to someone wealthy and controlling. In all practicality, I don't know if her plans would work out... .many of us feel that if she gives away her kids, she will become completely unmoored and disappear, perhaps even hurt herself (though she hasn't said she would).

She has had a pattern of being like this, but it was perhaps contained by her life and her marriage before. As a 16 year old, she graduated high school 1 year early (not because she was a great student, but because she desperately wanted emancipation from her parents household). She moved to Manhattan soon thereafter, and got her degree and climbed from job to job, always getting good ones but never staying very long. She dated the man who would eventually become her husband, broke up with him, but then married him because he got her pregnant after the breakup. And then her marriage was very turbulent, and it seemed to me that she was trying to push him away for years before it finally got to the point where she found the courage to go for the divorce. Not that he was easy... .he was devoted but they did not have an easy life.

Her parents- our parents- were difficult people. We had a tough life as kids. My dad had a temper and was at times verbally abusive to my mother. My mother eventually kind of "tuned out" and got very religious, giving up on the "real world." I don't know how my sister has processed that experience.

What I need help with is this:

1) What do we do with the kids? How do I know if they are safe with her? How do I know if I should encourage her ex to take them (he is not ideal but he is there father and perhaps better than their mother at this point)? How do I know if I should step in?

2) What do we do with her? How intensive a level of treatment does she need? What do I do for her? 

[RandySavage]

Hi- I am at the end of my rope with my sister ("Becky". After her divorce about 20 months ago, she has gone through an increasingly turbulent period that shows no sign of slowing down, and her behavior has led to two psychiatrists diagnosing her as having BPD. She is seeing one of them at the moment every 2 weeks, and she is supposed to go to group therapy every week, but she is not doing the latter (I am in touch with the psychiatrist so we make sure she goes, the group she is on her own).

Her situation is getting more and more volatile now because she has sole custody of her two daughters, ages 10 and 7. Not only do I question how effectively she is parenting them (she has the skills and experience to be an excellent mother, but I find her personality to be extremely difficult in small doses, so I cannot imagine how her young daughters are coping); but she has persistently expressed her desire to give up custody of her daughters, over an 8-9 month period now. The kids know- at some level- that their mother is not interested in being their mother. And in my mind, a person who repeatedly and loudly disclaims responsibility for her own children is an unfit parent almost by definition.

But what to do?

Her ex lives 3000 miles away. He has said that he would "absolutely take care of his daughters" and that the only reason he has not taken them yet is because the youngest is very attached to their mother (true) and because he thinks Becky is not in her right mind when she says what she says, and that she will regret giving them up. But his situation is not stable- his main source of financial stability is his new fiance- without her, his situation is tenuous, he has no steady work and no family. He is a loving father, perhaps willing but not the most able.

Meanwhile, Becky- knowing all this about their father and having an even worse opinion of him besides (she alleges that he has a drug and drinking problem and that he has a temper. I personally don't know to what degree I believe this- not that I actively disbelieve it, but literally, I don't know what is true anymore because so many things have been alleged)- Becky still expresses her desire to give up custody of her daughters to him.

She says that this is so they will "have a better life" (he has a nice house now because of his fiance); and because she can "never recover" her old life (she had a nice job and they had a nice house together). But anyone who observes the situation concludes that her desire seems to be more about her desire to spite her ex (as in "here, you deal with them" perhaps a resentment towards her children because they are his children (she views her whole marriage as a big mistake); or perhaps a creeping sense of dread that she is an unfit mother because of her mental illness. I don't know what it is, but it's got very little to do with "a better life" for the girls.

Her personality has gotten very weird. She has given up on any incremental things. Plenty of people want to help her with little things to help her make gains in her life. She won't even change her driver's license (she moved to her old home state, but she still has her old license from when she was married and lived in another state). She'll agree to do it, but then not do it. Because of this, she can't get health insurance. She sometimes doesn't cash her paychecks. She doesn't follow up with people who want to help her. All she is interested in is going on dates. She has dated, I think at least 5 different men since the breakup- and gotten engaged to 3 of them, all of which broke off. She had one engagement to a man who is much older than her- 15 years or so- and who has a lot of money, but a bad temper who controls her. She misses him and wants to go back to him.

And she is interested in getting a "better" job- she has two right now that are low paying but adequate and offer some growth opportunity- but she is completely disdainful of them and sees them as a stepping stone. She seems to believe that if she gets a good job, then she can (I think) keep the girls adequately, BUT... .then I caught her trying to give away the girls 2 weeks ago while she was actively being considered for a great job (which would make no sense).

She is completely hell bent on giving away her kids- preferably to her ex, and if not him, then to his brother and sister in law (which would be a spite to her ex, since he is in a feud with his brother)... .and getting married to someone wealthy and controlling. In all practicality, I don't know if her plans would work out... .many of us feel that if she gives away her kids, she will become completely unmoored and disappear, perhaps even hurt herself (though she hasn't said she would).

She has had a pattern of being like this, but it was perhaps contained by her life and her marriage before. As a 16 year old, she graduated high school 1 year early (not because she was a great student, but because she desperately wanted emancipation from her parents household). She moved to Manhattan soon thereafter, and got her degree and climbed from job to job, always getting good ones but never staying very long. She dated the man who would eventually become her husband, broke up with him, but then married him because he got her pregnant after the breakup. And then her marriage was very turbulent, and it seemed to me that she was trying to push him away for years before it finally got to the point where she found the courage to go for the divorce. Not that he was easy... .he was devoted but they did not have an easy life.

Her parents- our parents- were difficult people. We had a tough life as kids. My dad had a temper and was at times verbally abusive to my mother. My mother eventually kind of "tuned out" and got very religious, giving up on the "real world." I don't know how my sister has processed that experience.

What I need help with is this:

1) What do we do with the kids? How do I know if they are safe with her? How do I know if I should encourage her ex to take them (he is not ideal but he is there father and perhaps better than their mother at this point)? How do I know if I should step in?

2) What do we do with her? How intensive a level of treatment does she need? What do I do for her? 

[Turkish]

It sounds like your sister is in something like an identity crisis.  I experienced something similar with my ex,  though not to this degree. 

She's your sister,  but the kids are your nieces, too. I'm not suggesting to choose her offer them, but rather looking towards whom you can best,  and effectively,  help.  Neglect can be a reportable issue,  but having dealt with CPS myself,  this is a last resort.  You may be the most functional and caring person in your nieces' lives, but both of their parents have legal responsibility.  Dad may be more functional, but it sounds like there are issues there.  Is there a custody order?

I wouldn't underestimate your impact on their lives.  I'm speaking as the child of a mother with  BPD. Even if you feel you aren't in a position to "fix" things,  a non disordered person in their lives makes a huge impact, if only for listening.