Proposed Separation Plan from Lawyer. Thoughts?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Just received the following suggestions from my lawyer around how to separate from my uBPD fiancee. We have a healthy nine-month old child.  Would love your thoughts.

___

As discussed last night, we have put together the following suggestions/comments in regarding to you and fiancee, fiancee leaving the home, your safety and a parenting plan for baby:


1.      Inform fiancee that you will be placing cameras in your home for security reasons (obviously this is to film her in an attempt to keep her behavior under control).

2.      Notify the police in the area of what is going on, in order to protect yourself if she begins to make 911 calls about Domestic Violence or Child Abuse.

3.      Set up an evening this week to have a family member babysit your daughter, while you and fiancee go out to dinner in a public place.

          A.      If fiancee refuses, and has a tantrum and begins shaking (this is a common reaction of hers to stressful moments), call the paramedics or take her to the Emergency Room.

          B.      If fiancee does not have a tantrum or anxiety attack, taking her to a public place for dinner and in as nice a way as possible, inform her that the relationship is over.

4.      I strongly suggest that you consider making arrangements for a nesting parenting plan for baby for the first 3-4 months (until one year of age, if possible). 

5.      You will secure a furnished place for fiancee to go on the nights that you are on “parenting duty” and you will stay at a family member’s home on his nights that fiancee is on duty.

6.      Fiancee will have to pump her breasts to continue feeding baby breast milk on the nights that she is off, so that you can feed her breast milk.

7.      Hire a nanny to be in the home with baby at all times to ease the transition and to protect you from false allegations, as well as to watch over fiancee’s parenting. In addition, since fiancee has had these shaking fits and panic attacks, baby should not be in the home alone with fiancee, for baby’s safety. Obviously it would be best for you to work from home as much as possible and the nanny should be with fiancee and baby if you are working.

5.      We will need to seek a Restraining Order removing fiancee from your home if necessary.

6.      You must secure medical records from all of fiancee’s Emergency Room visits. If you do not have the records, or are unable to obtain them, this office will subpoena them.

7.      A Parenting Plan will be developed with for the next 8-12 months, until physical custody can be 50/50.

8.      You will share legal custody and we will request that you have final decision making over medical decisions regarding baby.

9.      Once the Petition has been filed, automatic restraining orders will go into effect so that fiancee may not take baby out of the state.

10.    Please be aware that fiancee is likely to allege Domestic Violence and make possibly allege Child Abuse to the police and/or DCFS.

11.    Most importantly, you must to set clear boundaries with fiancee, and not get pulled in by her in anyway. There can be no “feeling bad” for her. The boundaries must be set in stone and you must continue therapy.

 

[Aiming4Kindness]

Just received the following suggestions from my lawyer around how to separate from my uBPD fiancee. We have a healthy nine-month old child.  Would love your thoughts.

___

As discussed last night, we have put together the following suggestions/comments in regarding to you and fiancee, fiancee leaving the home, your safety and a parenting plan for baby:


1.      Inform fiancee that you will be placing cameras in your home for security reasons (obviously this is to film her in an attempt to keep her behavior under control).

2.      Notify the police in the area of what is going on, in order to protect yourself if she begins to make 911 calls about Domestic Violence or Child Abuse.

3.      Set up an evening this week to have a family member babysit your daughter, while you and fiancee go out to dinner in a public place.

          A.      If fiancee refuses, and has a tantrum and begins shaking (this is a common reaction of hers to stressful moments), call the paramedics or take her to the Emergency Room.

          B.      If fiancee does not have a tantrum or anxiety attack, taking her to a public place for dinner and in as nice a way as possible, inform her that the relationship is over.

4.      I strongly suggest that you consider making arrangements for a nesting parenting plan for baby for the first 3-4 months (until one year of age, if possible). 

5.      You will secure a furnished place for fiancee to go on the nights that you are on “parenting duty” and you will stay at a family member’s home on his nights that fiancee is on duty.

6.      Fiancee will have to pump her breasts to continue feeding baby breast milk on the nights that she is off, so that you can feed her breast milk.

7.      Hire a nanny to be in the home with baby at all times to ease the transition and to protect you from false allegations, as well as to watch over fiancee’s parenting. In addition, since fiancee has had these shaking fits and panic attacks, baby should not be in the home alone with fiancee, for baby’s safety. Obviously it would be best for you to work from home as much as possible and the nanny should be with fiancee and baby if you are working.

5.      We will need to seek a Restraining Order removing fiancee from your home if necessary.

6.      You must secure medical records from all of fiancee’s Emergency Room visits. If you do not have the records, or are unable to obtain them, this office will subpoena them.

7.      A Parenting Plan will be developed with for the next 8-12 months, until physical custody can be 50/50.

8.      You will share legal custody and we will request that you have final decision making over medical decisions regarding baby.

9.      Once the Petition has been filed, automatic restraining orders will go into effect so that fiancee may not take baby out of the state.

10.    Please be aware that fiancee is likely to allege Domestic Violence and make possibly allege Child Abuse to the police and/or DCFS.

11.    Most importantly, you must to set clear boundaries with fiancee, and not get pulled in by her in anyway. There can be no “feeling bad” for her. The boundaries must be set in stone and you must continue therapy.

 

[livednlearned]

It sounds solid, like the lawyer understands the risks and safety issues for you, for your baby, and the severity of your fiancee's behavior.

There are some compliance issues that, depending on how dysregulated your fiancee is, may be hard. For example, agreeing to have security cameras installed, agreeing to pump breast milk, agreeing to participate in a nesting arrangement.

My sense is that your lawyer recognizes the very real possibility that she will decompensate in a serious way, and that things will move swiftly to an RO.

Where do you stand in terms of #11? Is following these suggestions going to be a challenge for you?

How are you feeling about the recommendations overall?

[takingandsending]

Hello Aiming.
Sounds like your L knows BPD pretty well. Only item I wonder about is:
7.      A Parenting Plan will be developed with for the next 8-12 months, until physical custody can be 50/50.

Given your fiancee's shaky condition and her response to stress, I am concerned for your baby's care and well being. Will the condition of the nanny assisting her be permanent (written into divorce decree/parent plan), at least until the baby is older? Or will she be allowed on her own with the baby eventually? If the latter, do you need to seek full custody?

My T sometimes expresses concerns for my S5 and S11's safety because my STBxw laid on the floor crying during a dysregulation (when I was at work) and kicked our refrigerator hard enough that the water line began to leak and flood our kitchen. It's a reminder to me that my wife, in her worst moments, is really not a reliable source of care for them. But unlike you, I have no medical records, emergency room visits or other records that would bear out my claims, and my wife's breakdowns are less frequent. If I did have record of these instances, I'd be seeking full custody. Especially for a child under a year old.

Just my 2 cents. The well being of your baby is most important.

[Panda39]

I would worry a little bit about the nanny idea.  What will the nanny have to contend with?  Who will she/he be nanny to, the fiancé or the baby?  Be sure to find a nanny that is mature and stable that understands your fiancé's issues otherwise you could be creating a drama triangle with the nanny, your fiancé and you.

Could you request supervised visitation vs a nanny?

Panda39

[Aiming4Kindness]

All, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.  I shared them with my lawyer, and we're using your ideas to sharpen the plan.  So, thanks as well for not charging a retainer :-).

[ForeverDad]

I would suggest that you protect yourself in the meantime.  Whether voice recorder, pencam or whatever.  I started recording when there were increased rants and rages in the final months of my marriage.  (If you have concerns about whether you can record in two-party state, here are a couple thoughts.  Less than a handful of members have reported legal consequences for continued high conflict cases, they were told to stop and for most of us at most the recordings were ignored.  And phrase it this way, "I'm recording myself so I can document I am behaving normally, if others get recorded too, well... ."

Our experience has been that courts have historically been reluctant to deal with recordings since possibly (1) the don't allocate time for it in hearings and (2) the recording may not have the entire encounter and so could have been staged to trigger the other person into poor actions.  However, police and other agencies might be more willing to listen/watch and you may lessen the risk of a visit to jail.

Good point about the breast pumping.  Some members faced a mother demanding near total parenting time on the emotional excuse the baby/toddler/preschooler was being breastfed.  Millions of working mothers have pumped milk while away from their children, no reason she can't too.  Remember, many of her claims will be emotion-based ones, not fact or reality based.  One task for you and your lawyer is to defuse such emotional claims before they gain traction.

LnL's concern about expecting compliance is a valid one.  She is an adult and as such can make her own decisions and choices, whether good one or poor ones.  Yes, the order does need to set firm boundaries of behavior but it also — if not with the upcoming order then with the next ones — needs to include consequences.  Why?  If the consequences aren't included in some way then when she doesn't comply and you go back to court, the court will almost automatically give her more time.  Or she will ask for continuances a couple times.  Then the court might let it go with barely a finger being wagged expecting it not to happen again.  And the lack of clarity on consequences can enable her to feel she can do it again with little resulting action.

On a practical note you may not be able to include detailed lists of consequences but do get something in there so (1) she knows what what could happen when she is not compliant and (2) court doesn't have to decide "after the fact" what action to take.  Court can still choose to do less but that aspect is pretty much out of your hands.  It's a truism here that court typically views rulings in Contempt of Court cases — when you can get them — like parking tickets, they don't amount to much change-wise until you get a stack of them.

Understand too that court hearings are usually brief, generally as little as a half hour is allotted.  You can't get every issue covered to prepare a list of issues, prioritized.  I recall at one court hearing I had written a 3 page list with 11 issues thoroughly explained for my lawyer.  Unfortunately I ordered it by topic.  We only got to 3 of them and the more important ones didn't even get mentioned.  Lesson learned.

A question... .Why would physical custody be 50/50?  Or does that not apply to a parenting time schedule?  Wouldn't the concerns about mother's behaviors with childcare be a big factor?  One perspective I had to learn when I first went to court was that when dealing with custody issues they weren't very concerned about the adult behaviors (between you and her) but gave much more attention to the parenting behaviors.  So though you do need to have a level of protection, I suspect the court will give more thought and attention to the child's welfare, both immediate and long term.

[Aiming4Kindness]

Thanks so much, ForeverDad.

I've shared a number of your concerns with my legal team.  I *loved* your thoughts around working consequences into any orders right from the start.  So helpful.

With gratitude,
Aiming

[livednlearned]

working consequences into any orders right from the start.

The way this worked in my case is that my L would file a motion, we would have a hearing before the judge, the judge would rule this way or that way.

Then my L would politely offer to write the ruling up (I would have to pay for this). This part is important!

She and I would discuss some relatively benign consequences including the legal language that made sense.

Then we would appear in court with ex to have the order entered, consequences and all.

So, it's possible if your consequences are too one-sided, or too unreasonable, that the opposing counsel might say no way.

But for the most part, there is this sentiment that the court does not like to see "repeat customers," and consequential language positions you as a problem-solver instead of someone who expects the courts to solve their problem.

Note that your ex may not comply with the order regardless of the consequences you are able to include.

The benefit of the consequences is that when/if you end up back in court over non-compliance, the consequences are something you contributed to, not something the judge decides off the top of his or her head.

Family law court judges tend to allow people to get two or three bites of the apple.

Also, for a BPD ex who consistently disregards the order, the court is more likely to take note that they were non-compliant even while knowing precisely what the consequences might be. It tends to make their non-compliant behavior even more notable.

At least, we hope.   

[Aiming4Kindness]

Thanks, livednlearned

[david]

Several thoughts. If I put security cameras in our house my, then wife, would have simply destroyed them. She would have continued each time I put new ones up. Be prepared.

I was very concerned in the beginning because our boys were only 4.5 and 9.5 back then. I had no idea what she would/could do when she was dysregulated. Now they are 13 and 18 and they can take care of themselves better. My ex doesn't feed them at times, doesn't help them with their school work, leaves them in her place and goes out for hours, etc. They are older now so I don't worry as much.