Why would a borderline woman be interested in a married man?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am a married man with kids.  I struck a close friendship with a female colleague over the last 15 months who I suspect has BPD and has split me black and discarded me.  I was also devalued early on in the friendship.  Both times, silent treatment was used.
There wasn't any affair going on but there was a closeness.  I admit I could have tried to defined clearer boundaries but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

A few examples on why I think she may be BPD:

1. The friendship developed quickly and it seemed like we clicked instantly.  She seemed to pay me a lot of attention, give me compliments and seem to turn to me for moral support and advice. 
2. Looking back it instrinsically felt that after a while, I was responsible for her emotional well-being.  Also if she was happy, I felt happy, if she was moody I felt moody and would try to cheer her up.
3. Boundaries were tested in the sense that conversation topics pushed the limits of what would be considered appropriate between a married man and single woman.  I do take some responsibility for this but often these conversations were initiate by her.
4. Not sure what her general upbringing was but her parents divorced with her mother cheating on her father.  She doesn't speak to her mother and refused to see her mother who flew from overseas to visit for her birthday.  When I was split black, I think I know how her mother felt.
5. Went through 2 cycles of idealisation and devaluation within 15 months
6. I do detect a sense of insecurity and loneliness.  Often complains she is overweight and unattractive though I also feels like a means of getting positive validation from me.  I actually think she is very attractive and definitely not overweight - more athletic.
7. Very implusive with food.  Generally wants things now and can't wait.  I know she like shopping (but what girl doesn't).  She has also been stopped by the police a couple of times for reckless driving.
8.  I've seen episodes of rage and radical changes in mood from happy to angry due to minor reasons.
9.  She has had episodes where she's fed up with work, fed up with life, wondering why life is that way sometimes.
10. She can be almost child-like at times but putting on a girly voice.
11. She often either likes someone or hates them.  The splitting is quite evident and can switch both ways.
12. Both times when I was devalued, there was no distinguishing event. 

I can give more specific examples if required but didn't want to bore everyone with my opening post.

While the friendship recovered after the first time I was devalued, it is possible this second time could be permanent.  Partly because I have seen more of the "real" her this time and she definitely treated me badly the second time around.  Also, I'm not sure I really want to go though this a third time.  In the unlikely event the friendship were to recover, it was have to have some clear boundaries and I feel I need some acknowledgement of how she treated me; which I suspect I will not get as I understand pwBPD never admit fault.

I have to say I'm quite hurt by the whole thing.  I was happy to be good friends but looking back, the friendship was hard work.  I definitely felt like everything was about her needs and wants.  I help her out on a lot of things and then to be discarded for no reason is dissappointing.

I also always wondered why she would want to hang out with a married man.  She would complain to me about growing old with no man.  Surely hanging out with me should be the last thing she should be doing.  Strange thing was she didn't hang out with anyone else in the office.

A few things I'm trying to understand are:

1. If pwBPD fear abandonment, isn't a close friendship with married man the last thing they would be looking at.  Afterall, statistically I believe most married men stay with their wives.  Or is it the risk of engulfment is lower?
2. I assume given that I have been devalued and discard, then she must have "idealised" me to some extent?  Everyone in the office knows I was married, it was not secret plus I would sometimes talk about my family with her.  Surely this would put a dampener on any idealisation from her, right?
3. Is it possible that I'm a perceived threat to her now given I have seen what she is really like?  Possibly one of the reasons she is giving me the silent treatment though when it comes to work related stuff she seems fine, almost normal.  It's almost like she switches.
4. Should I just maintain NC has much as possible given that we are colleagues.  I can avoid her most of the time and just keep discussions to work.  It is awkward though as most people know we were quite close.

That's all i can think of at the moment but if there are any specific questions for me, please fire away.

[tigertwin]

I am a married man with kids.  I struck a close friendship with a female colleague over the last 15 months who I suspect has BPD and has split me black and discarded me.  I was also devalued early on in the friendship.  Both times, silent treatment was used.
There wasn't any affair going on but there was a closeness.  I admit I could have tried to defined clearer boundaries but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

A few examples on why I think she may be BPD:

1. The friendship developed quickly and it seemed like we clicked instantly.  She seemed to pay me a lot of attention, give me compliments and seem to turn to me for moral support and advice. 
2. Looking back it instrinsically felt that after a while, I was responsible for her emotional well-being.  Also if she was happy, I felt happy, if she was moody I felt moody and would try to cheer her up.
3. Boundaries were tested in the sense that conversation topics pushed the limits of what would be considered appropriate between a married man and single woman.  I do take some responsibility for this but often these conversations were initiate by her.
4. Not sure what her general upbringing was but her parents divorced with her mother cheating on her father.  She doesn't speak to her mother and refused to see her mother who flew from overseas to visit for her birthday.  When I was split black, I think I know how her mother felt.
5. Went through 2 cycles of idealisation and devaluation within 15 months
6. I do detect a sense of insecurity and loneliness.  Often complains she is overweight and unattractive though I also feels like a means of getting positive validation from me.  I actually think she is very attractive and definitely not overweight - more athletic.
7. Very implusive with food.  Generally wants things now and can't wait.  I know she like shopping (but what girl doesn't).  She has also been stopped by the police a couple of times for reckless driving.
8.  I've seen episodes of rage and radical changes in mood from happy to angry due to minor reasons.
9.  She has had episodes where she's fed up with work, fed up with life, wondering why life is that way sometimes.
10. She can be almost child-like at times but putting on a girly voice.
11. She often either likes someone or hates them.  The splitting is quite evident and can switch both ways.
12. Both times when I was devalued, there was no distinguishing event. 

I can give more specific examples if required but didn't want to bore everyone with my opening post.

While the friendship recovered after the first time I was devalued, it is possible this second time could be permanent.  Partly because I have seen more of the "real" her this time and she definitely treated me badly the second time around.  Also, I'm not sure I really want to go though this a third time.  In the unlikely event the friendship were to recover, it was have to have some clear boundaries and I feel I need some acknowledgement of how she treated me; which I suspect I will not get as I understand pwBPD never admit fault.

I have to say I'm quite hurt by the whole thing.  I was happy to be good friends but looking back, the friendship was hard work.  I definitely felt like everything was about her needs and wants.  I help her out on a lot of things and then to be discarded for no reason is dissappointing.

I also always wondered why she would want to hang out with a married man.  She would complain to me about growing old with no man.  Surely hanging out with me should be the last thing she should be doing.  Strange thing was she didn't hang out with anyone else in the office.

A few things I'm trying to understand are:

1. If pwBPD fear abandonment, isn't a close friendship with married man the last thing they would be looking at.  Afterall, statistically I believe most married men stay with their wives.  Or is it the risk of engulfment is lower?
2. I assume given that I have been devalued and discard, then she must have "idealised" me to some extent?  Everyone in the office knows I was married, it was not secret plus I would sometimes talk about my family with her.  Surely this would put a dampener on any idealisation from her, right?
3. Is it possible that I'm a perceived threat to her now given I have seen what she is really like?  Possibly one of the reasons she is giving me the silent treatment though when it comes to work related stuff she seems fine, almost normal.  It's almost like she switches.
4. Should I just maintain NC has much as possible given that we are colleagues.  I can avoid her most of the time and just keep discussions to work.  It is awkward though as most people know we were quite close.

That's all i can think of at the moment but if there are any specific questions for me, please fire away.

[formflier]

 
4. Should I just maintain NC has much as possible given that we are colleagues.  I can avoid her most of the time and just keep discussions to work.  It is awkward though as most people know we were quite close.

Yes... .as much NC as possible is your best course of action. 

Let other people think what they want.  Not your issue.  I trust you can find ways to deal with your own feelings of awkwardness.

Big picture:  Focus on your life and your priorities.  What possible good can come out of understanding or rekindling any kind of relationship with a woman that is "BPDish"?

I say this because it will take you an enormous amount of time and effort to figure all of the "BPD stuff out".  I hazard to guess that the time and effort would be better spent on other priorities and values that you have.

Thoughts?

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Welcome to very dangerous ground!
I can't answer to all your questions, but, I will comment that I think you have sampled the innate superpowers of a person with BPD traits.  I have learned that pwBPD are incredibly aware of feelings, nuances, non-verbals, cues, and emotions, especially in others.  They may be blind to their own selves, but they are quite attuned to who's on their radar.  Given that, they may be totally wrong, but, don't think they are not aware.  For example, it took me many years to decipher that I triggered my wife's emotional boiler when I breathed.  I have a low heart rate and low respiration rate.  When I do breathe while at reast it is sometimes a long and very deep breath.  In my wife's matrix of interpretation that meant to her that I was mad (I deduce that was probably a remnant of her childhood with verbally abusive parents who, probably, breathed in deeply before letting out a tirade).  It makes sense - and was totally wrong.  I realized later that I had learned to moderate my breathing when she was in the room to not trigger her (as well as a subdued panic response in myself to being around her).
Anyway, their powers border on witchcraft when it comes to playing on your emotions and reading into things.
Keep boundaries, walls, and limited contact!

[tigertwin]

Yes... .as much NC as possible is your best course of action. 

Let other people think what they want.  Not your issue.  I trust you can find ways to deal with your own feelings of awkwardness.

Big picture:  Focus on your life and your priorities.  What possible good can come out of understanding or rekindling any kind of relationship with a woman that is "BPDish"?

I say this because it will take you an enormous amount of time and effort to figure all of the "BPD stuff out".  I hazard to guess that the time and effort would be better spent on other priorities and values that you have.

Thoughts?

FF

Yes, trying to rationalise the irrational is almost impossible and I'm trying to accept that and move on - not necessarily that easy though.   The focus going forward has to be my own family. 

Anyway, their powers border on witchcraft when it comes to playing on your emotions and reading into things.

It must be.  Only yesterday, I had to send a work-related email to her pointing an administrative mistake she made.  Surprisingly she responded in a very positive tone explaining why the mistake was made and thanked me for pointing it out to her.  Mind you this is contrast to our last conversation in the office a couple of weeks ago where she very coldly said to me she still didn't want to talk and asked me to leave.

The other dissappointing thing is that she had an injury late last year which meant she couldn't walk for several weeks.  I drove her into work for 3 weeks until she could at least drive herself.  I was devalued and discarded soon after that.  I've just had knee surgery and on crutches in the office this last week.  She has not once asked me about my knee.  To send an email reply with a positive tone as if nothing has happened and not even taking the opportunity to ask me about my knee is just beyond understanding really!

[formflier]

 The focus going forward has to be my own family.    

My recommendation is that you stick strictly to work related issues.  Be as brief and focused as possible.  Polite but not friendly.

There may come a day when she tries to be friendly.  Polite is the key.  Do not reciprocate or draw closer.

FF

 

[SamwizeGamgee]

Yes.  What FF said. 
I sometimes think of my relationship to my uBPDw as one of warden and prisoner.  I'm the prisoner who is cordial, and polite, and well guarded.  Polite, non-emotional, peaceful.  Afraid or respectful.  That's the only attitude that gets me through.

[Grey Kitty]

There wasn't any affair going on but there was a closeness.  I admit I could have tried to defined clearer boundaries but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Are you familiar with the concept of an emotional affair? When you have the kind of intimacy you might have if it was a physical affair, but without any of the physical actions, and (perhaps) without the romantic aspects?

You say you are married, and I presume (relatively) happily married. How does your wife feel about this friendship? If your wife is uncomfortable about it, or if you feel the need to hide it from her for fear of her reactions, this is a red flag for you watch.

If there is a problem there, cutting this r/s back to purely a professional one is clearly your best choice.

From your profile, it sounds like your wife doesn't have BPD, and isn't otherwise crazy/irrational/etc. Your wife may be secure in her marriage with you, and not concerned at all, and you may feel like you are capable of keeping an intimate friendship with somebody else and not threatening your marriage at all; the risk of an emotional affair and fallout in your marriage may not be a problem.


Even then, if this woman has BPD or BPD traits, which it sounds like... .you can expect the drama, confusion, and mixed messages from her to continue, and most likely escalate between you and her.

What sort of "good outcome" are you hoping for if this friendship were to get better instead of getting worse or staying the same? You don't paint a picture of something you will miss.

[tigertwin]

Are you familiar with the concept of an emotional affair? When you have the kind of intimacy you might have if it was a physical affair, but without any of the physical actions, and (perhaps) without the romantic aspects?

I am familiar with the concept of emotional affair and there were times I did wonder if this was where it was heading.  Strangely, I think is was push/pull of the friendship which keep the whole idea of the emotional affair uncertain.  Like I said earlier, I should have established some boundaries early on, especially if there was some hint of emotional affair.

Yes, my wife is extremely drama-free.  She knows about the friendship and she trusts that I know my boundaries which I do.

At this stage the friendship has ended and my intention is to go NC and keep discussions work-related.  I certainly couldn't go back to what the friendship was before and if there was some sort of friendship in the future I would need some acknowledgement of what happened and her behaviour towards me during the devaluation.  Given that pwBPD rarely admit fault, I not holding my breath.

The main reason for my questions in the post was really to get some understanding and closure for myself as I doubt I will get any from her.

[formflier]

  understanding and closure for myself as I doubt I will get any from her.

So... .what if your "friend" did some photo-shopping... .and sent some incriminating pictures to your wife? Or just made allegations with no "proof".

Sure... .your wife may come to understand that "more likely than not... " there was nothing bad going on.  But would things ever really be the same?

I'm a military guy... .so I think the analogy you should understand is that you hear a "BPD bullet" go whizzing past your head.  Count yourself lucky and stay away.

FF

[tigertwin]

[quote author=formflier

I'm a military guy... .so I think the analogy you should understand is that you hear a "BPD bullet" go whizzing past your head.  Count yourself lucky and stay away.

FF
[/quote]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, FF! 

Yes, I've see her un-masked so I've seen the rage and vindictive nature to other people.  I guess I got off lightly with the silent treatment.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, my wife is extremely drama-free.  She knows about the friendship and she trusts that I know my boundaries which I do.

If you are concerned that this friend will do some sort of loud, destructive dysregulation, I hope you have given your wife a clue that you've gotten into something you aren't liking anymore with somebody you now realize is less than stable.

She sounds perhaps more likely to quietly reject you than do something weird or destructive that will get back to other people... .other than perhaps coworkers thinking "Hmmmm... .they seemed like friends, and now they avoid each other... .wonder what that is about?"

At this stage the friendship has ended and my intention is to go NC and keep discussions work-related.

I'd call it Low Contact rather than No Contact, as you cannot completely avoid her at work even if you would choose to, but the important part is that you have the right idea here.

The main reason for my questions in the post was really to get some understanding and closure for myself as I doubt I will get any from her.

I think you are correct there--you have to find your own closure on this friendship; she may not understand it, and even if she does, she isn't likely to explain to you.

[tigertwin]

If you are concerned that this friend will do some sort of loud, destructive dysregulation, I hope you have given your wife a clue that you've gotten into something you aren't liking anymore with somebody you now realize is less than stable.

She sounds perhaps more likely to quietly reject you than do something weird or destructive that will get back to other people... .other than perhaps coworkers thinking "Hmmmm... .they seemed like friends, and now they avoid each other... .wonder what that is about?"

I did consider mentioning to my wife but haven't at this stage.

So far, the rejection is quiet and I don't think she has done any smear campaign against me.  Not sure what co-workers are thinking but no one has asked.  We have some common friends (though mainly her friends) who are also on a group chat and I don't think she has told them anything.  The friends are still replying to me.

[blueblue12]

Thus far you are one lucky guy, hope that she leaves the place or that you will find a new place to work. These initial stages on and off are dangerous and she may be plotting the next move. My experiences while I was married and meeting my BPD eventual partner is she never really left my radar, she would disappear then reappear, for years until I got hooked! And the result? Disaster... .

[tigertwin]

Thus far you are one lucky guy, hope that she leaves the place or that you will find a new place to work. These initial stages on and off are dangerous and she may be plotting the next move. My experiences while I was married and meeting my BPD eventual partner is she never really left my radar, she would disappear then reappear, for years until I got hooked! And the result? Disaster... .

Did you know your BPD eventual partner during the initial stages or only after you were hooked?

As already pointed out to me earlier, I probably dodged a bullet!  Yes, would be ideal if she or I found a new place to work but not sure if that is happening anytime soon.  I've already had a couple of work-related interactions with her and they have been strange and awkward.  Worse thing is she seems to be interacting with everyone else normally.  I'm trying to find a way to deal with it in my own mind.

[formflier]

  Worse thing is she seems to be interacting with everyone else normally.  I'm trying to find a way to deal with it in my own mind.

This is the key... .  Realize that she will deal with you ... .and others... .as she pleases.  Unless you are HR type or a supervisor that is "over" her in the chain of command (so to speak) in your organization, don't give her actions or your perceptions of her actions... .a second thought.

Is there a new project or something that you can focus some extra attention on at work? 

I totally understand (because I do it as well)... .the tendency to be fascinated with some aspects of a BPD person.  It's like a trainwreck... .that you can't look away from.  Yet... .some days... .the train runs fine... .other days... .it looks like the best train ever.  Then... seemingly out of nowhere... .BAAM... .another wreck.

Then the mental analysis starts again... .how on earth do they live like that?  How can we know when a wreck is going to occur... .etc etc?

We each have to fight the battle (in our own minds) to not stare... and wonder.  Best that we focus on our lives and our futures.  Believe that they are adults and can sort themselves out... .

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I've already had a couple of work-related interactions with her and they have been strange and awkward.  Worse thing is she seems to be interacting with everyone else normally.  I'm trying to find a way to deal with it in my own mind.

Just force yourself to push through the awkward... .it may get better, or it may stay the same, but at least you will get used to it.

If you broke up with somebody in a romantic r/s, you would expect being with them to be awkward at first, wouldn't you?

This was a very intimate friendship, and it ended. The awkwardness is the same.

Sometimes you are able to push past it and find a comfortable friendship. Other times you aren't. Unfortunately with a pwBPD the most common answer is that you can't get past it.

[AustenJ]

Tigertwin... .

This is indeed very dangerous ground you are treading on... .I know from personal experience... .borderlines are very good at reading between your lines and almost feel what you are going through at that point in your life. If you are happy in the relationship you have with your wife, then there is no need, ever, to have a close, intimate relationship with another woman... .especially one you work with and see every day... .

I am in my mid-50s, married for almost 17 years with a D15... .my marriage was good in many aspects, but was very lacking in intimacy and sex; when I was 22, my father had died in his 50's, and I was agonizing over that same fate befalling me; and I had just transferred from a job where my boss was a bully... .

I met a woman at work who was single and 26 yrs old who had attempted suicide in college, who's father had died when she was 18, and she had a diagnosis of BPD (that I did not know until much later). Needless to say we hit it off and began an intense friendship which led to intimacy and sex, which led to me falling madly in love with her. I moved out and was separated for several months... .even after her sharing her diagnosis of BPD which she revealed after a cutting incident, I became her rescuer and read and studied everything on BPD. We talked marriage, but only if she got into therapy... .we had a 5 month whirlwind romance... .

then of course, it all came crashing down... .in my research, borderlines like married men because we are seen as "safe" in that they are married and can never really have a permanent relationship... .when it came down to it, I think I was just another reckless sex partner initially... .this was a woman who had slept with well over 60 guys in 10 years... .I was more mature than most of her sex partners and I was sterile which made sex with me much safer... .no risk of pregnancy. She had not been on the pill for years and her form of birth control was the morning after pill.

There were red flags all over the place, but I came into the relationship in a pretty fragile emotional state, even though I didn't recognize that at the time... .I am always upbeat, confident, happy and compassionate... .and usually considered level-headed... .but as most know here, one gets totally sucked into the borderline vortex... .

so walk away and never look back; thank your lucky stars that she ended the relationship... .take your wife on a romantic cruise, take the family to Disney World, play golf with your buddies... .re-engage into your family and wife life... .go overboard in your appreciation of marriage and family! Good luck!

[HoldingAHurricane]

A person with BPD has little sense of self so they define who they are from their external world. In order to feel valued/safe/happy/confident/etc they must construct an external world which feedbacks to them those messages because they don't have much ability to generate them internally (which is what healthy people do). What great validation it might be to share intimacies with someone who gives those messages with the added boost that this person has a spouse. The person with BPD has the chance to imagine that their friend is choosing closeness with them rather than with the person's SO (whether that is real or imagined).

Ultimately, its speculative because only they can tell you why they pursue friendship with you. What is better to understand is what needs this friendship might meet for you.

[tigertwin]

Is there a new project or something that you can focus some extra attention on at work? 

I totally understand (because I do it as well)... .the tendency to be fascinated with some aspects of a BPD person.  It's like a trainwreck... .that you can't look away from.  Yet... .some days... .the train runs fine... .other days... .it looks like the best train ever.  Then... seemingly out of nowhere... .BAAM... .another wreck.

Then the mental analysis starts again... .how on earth do they live like that?  How can we know when a wreck is going to occur... .etc etc?

Unfortunately not much going as far as other projects, etc.  Will just have to put up with it.

Looking back, the mental and emotional analysis always seemed to be there during the whole friendship.  It is obviously worse after being devalued.  It is definitely something I want to get over and not have to deal will again.

This was a very intimate friendship, and it ended. The awkwardness is the same.

Sometimes you are able to push past it and find a comfortable friendship. Other times you aren't. Unfortunately with a pwBPD the most common answer is that you can't get past it.

I agree there would always be some awkwardness regardless.  It is really how quickly it all happened without any sense of reason or closure.

then of course, it all came crashing down... .in my research, borderlines like married men because we are seen as "safe" in that they are married and can never really have a permanent relationship... .when it came down to it, I think I was just another reckless sex partner initially... .this was a woman who had slept with well over 60 guys in 10 years... .I was more mature than most of her sex partners and I was sterile which made sex with me much safer... .no risk of pregnancy. She had not been on the pill for years and her form of birth control was the morning after pill.

There were red flags all over the place, but I came into the relationship in a pretty fragile emotional state, even though I didn't recognize that at the time... .I am always upbeat, confident, happy and compassionate... .and usually considered level-headed... .but as most know here, one gets totally sucked into the borderline vortex... .

so walk away and never look back; thank your lucky stars that she ended the relationship... .take your wife on a romantic cruise, take the family to Disney World, play golf with your buddies... .re-engage into your family and wife life... .go overboard in your appreciation of marriage and family! Good luck!

Your story really resonated with me and I suppose shows that even when you try to make a pwBPD happy like leaving your existing marriage, it is probably still never enough for them.  I hope you're in a better place emotionally now.

It is quite ironic that married men are considered "safe", but would probably be the last people you'd think would ease a pwBPD's chronic insecurities.  I suppose it is the irrationality of it all.

I feel fortunate that the friendship has ended and I know deep inside that I couldn't go back to that sort of friendship again even if it was available.  It is still a process coming to terms with what happened and cycling through the emotions of anger, sadness, regret, etc.

A person with BPD has little sense of self so they define who they are from their external world. In order to feel valued/safe/happy/confident/etc they must construct an external world which feedbacks to them those messages because they don't have much ability to generate them internally (which is what healthy people do). What great validation it might be to share intimacies with someone who gives those messages with the added boost that this person has a spouse. The person with BPD has the chance to imagine that their friend is choosing closeness with them rather than with the person's SO (whether that is real or imagined).

Ultimately, its speculative because only they can tell you why they pursue friendship with you. What is better to understand is what needs this friendship might meet for you.

Yes, it's all speculation but an interesting take on what it might have been.

Looking back, I think the friendship was in most parts always about her. ie. her drama, her needs, etc.  It seemed flattering that I was was the one she seemed to turn to for advice and support.  My wife is relatively drama-free so I don't often have to play that role.  Having to do that role with my friend was perhaps something different, interesting, a challenge.

But at the end of the day, playing this type of role for my friend only takes time away from my family, which is why I know I can't go back to that sort of friendship again. 
   

[Healthy88]

Married men are attractive and emotionally safe for someone with BPD because you are not available. It honestly doesn't sound like it was much of a friendship. If she had a need that you were willing to fill for her, she gladly accepted. Yet, you haven't said one nice thing she ever did for you other than possibly compliment you. More than likely she did that to get something from you that she wanted. PwBPD are usually all about themselves. In the end, you realize the friendship was truly only one sided, which is hurtful. No one likes feeling used.

[tigertwin]

Married men are attractive and emotionally safe for someone with BPD because you are not available. It honestly doesn't sound like it was much of a friendship. If she had a need that you were willing to fill for her, she gladly accepted. Yet, you haven't said one nice thing she ever did for you other than possibly compliment you. More than likely she did that to get something from you that she wanted. PwBPD are usually all about themselves. In the end, you realize the friendship was truly only one sided, which is hurtful. No one likes feeling used.

Actually she did make a birthday cake for me and brought it into the office , but yes in general it was a one-sided friendship though admittedly I didn't mind helping her out where I could. 

I mentioned previously that I drove her to work for several weeks as she had a physical injury.  She lived on the way to the office and it was only a short drive so not really a bid deal in the scheme of things.  It was during this time I saw some of the irrational and bizzare behaviour.  I knew she was more emotionally strung than your average person but her behaviour seemed more than that and also for incidents that were relatively minor.  Admittedly, towards the end of the period I was driving her I was starting to feel a bit burnt out. To me it was a normal thing that when you spend more time than usual with a friend, things might start to feel a bit stale.  This certainly doesn't mean you want the friendship to end.  Maybe she sensed this too but interpreted things differently.  Coupled with the fact that I had seen a side of her that perhaps not many people have seen, including her close friends.  Perhaps she decided that she should abandon me before I abandon her (as she perceived).

A week or so after I stopped driving her (as she could drive herself), the obvious devaluation started, ie. not responding to text messages, cold shoulder at work, some very bizzare passive aggressive behavior towards me.  I say obvious because there were a couple of push/pull incidents in the weeks leading up to the devaluation so perhaps the whole process had already started.

This whole incident really stings as it came straight after I went above and beyond to help her out in her time of obvious need.  Maybe this is why she has kept the devaluation low key.  Co-workers knew I drove her to work.  Even some of our common friends (who where originally her friends) knew I drove her to work.  It almost seems like the only person who didn't appreciate what I did was my friend herself!

So yes I do feel used.  I am convinced my friend has at least some of the traits of BPD and from all that I've read, the bizarre things they do is to ease their own emotional pain and insecurities.  It still hurts though when they end up treating friends with such disrespect.  For all the things I had done for her, all I really wanted in return was her friendship but it seems that was too much to give at the end.

[formflier]

A week or so after I stopped driving her (as she could drive herself), the obvious devaluation started, ie. not responding to text messages, cold shoulder at work, some very bizzare passive aggressive behavior towards me.  I say obvious because there were a couple of push/pull incidents in the weeks leading up to the devaluation so perhaps the whole process had already started.
 

Now that I understand the story better... .here is my opinion about her disordered thought process.

Big picture:  Remember... .shame is usually a big part of BPD.

She likely understood that she was now independent, that you had been a good friend... .and that she was incapable of being a good friend back.

That got shame going.

Instead of a healthy expression of feelings of shame  "I'm so sorry I didn't appreciate you more for your help.  Can I take you out to lunch on Friday?  You mean a lot to me."

The shame went through the "BPD blender" instead.

That thinking "devalues" you... .she can order things in her head that you are not worth saying thanks to... .or even speaking to again.  She has probably played various "tapes" in her head where she "catastrophizes" various things you said to twist them from innocent to malevolent.  Further validating (in her mind) the course of action to devalue you.

About zero chance she would ever admit to... .or be able to explain this thought process to you.  Perhaps a skilled therapist could eventually draw it out.

The backdrop of this disordered thinking are emotions that change at the snap of a finger... .with her looking to place responsibility for those emotions on someone else.  Likely you got blamed for some of that too... .because you were on her mind.

After all... ."why value someone that causes you such distress... ."

Ugg... .

FF

[tigertwin]

FF, sorry it took a while to give a better picture of what happened  .  Lot's to say but finding a way to say it clearly is a struggle!

I'm am trying to process your reply. 

She likely understood that she was now independent, that you had been a good friend... .and that she was incapable of being a good friend back.

So are saying that pwBPD are unlikely to be a good friend back in general because they are too busy dealing with their own emotions and insecurities?

The backdrop of this disordered thinking are emotions that change at the snap of a finger... .with her looking to place responsibility for those emotions on someone else.  Likely you got blamed for some of that too... .because you were on her mind.

After all... ."why value someone that causes you such distress... ."

I guess what you're saying is that shame is one of the core features of BPD and once that is triggered for whatever reason everything gets distorted.  So even things that should be logical become illogical (but logical in the BPD mind).  Because I was perhaps closest to her emotionally at the time, I became collateral damage.

Did I sum that up right?

About zero chance she would ever admit to... .or be able to explain this thought process to you.  Perhaps a skilled therapist could eventually draw it out.

So during the devaluation, she said to me that she had problems but didn't want to talk about it and that it had nothing to do with me.

Is it possible that she didn't want to talk about it because she couldn't even understand it herself and wouldn't even know where to start to explain the problem?

Also, do they ever snap out of it? or is the shame of it all too great that even if they did become somewhat aware, they would deny it anyway to avoid further shame?

[formflier]

So are saying that pwBPD are unlikely to be a good friend back in general because they are too busy dealing with their own emotions and insecurities?

Add consistently to this and you have it.  There are times they could be the best friend ever... .then worst enemy... then poof... they are gone.  

I guess what you're saying is that shame is one of the core features of BPD and once that is triggered for whatever reason everything gets distorted.  

Shame is usually always there... .you just take it "to the next level".  There may or may not be a "trigger" that can be identified.

 Stay away from any thinking that goes like this... ."Oh... I'll just avoid the triggers... and validate... .and all will be better... ."  When they want to be triggered... where there is a need to dysregulate... .they will get it done.

 

So during the devaluation, she said to me that she had problems but didn't want to talk about it and that it had nothing to do with me.

Actually a fairly healthy statement.  Wish her the best and move along.

Is it possible that she didn't want to talk about it because she couldn't even understand it herself and wouldn't even know where to start to explain the problem?

Could be...  Or perhaps part of devaluation... . That you are such an idiot... .you wouldn't "get it".

Also, do they ever snap out of it? or is the shame of it all too great that even if they did become somewhat aware, they would deny it anyway to avoid further shame?

Sure... .my wife has had periods of 100% lucidity... .out of nowhere... .for weeks and months... .then ... .poof... .

It can make your head spin... .

FF

[tigertwin]

Thanks FF.

This whole thing has been making my head spin.  It's so true what what say about BPD - the closer you get the more they push you away, but it also happens so inconsistently and irrationally.  It defies logic.  I have these memories of our friendship and I'm almost wondering where they came from now.

I have to keep reminding myself that it is likely she doesn't have normal thought processes likely a healthy, rational adult.  A bit hard sometimes when she seems to function normally at work and acts normally to other people in the office.

I suppose I am fortunate that I can walk away relatively unscathed - just some emotional and mental wounds that will hopefully heal with time.

[formflier]

  A bit hard sometimes when she seems to function normally at work and acts normally to other people in the office.
 

And she is fine... .in those settings.  The closer or more intimate the r/s... .the greater likelihood of dysfunction.

FF

[Healthy88]

FF,

I am so glad you stated that avoiding triggers and validating will not prevent them from dysregulating, if they have a need to do so. Just realized about 5 wks ago that my H most likely has uBPD, after 20 years of head spinning craziness and chaos. I've been learning the tools and began this week really trying to listen with empathy and validate all of his feelings that I can, in hopes to turn things, especially his thinking, around. Thanks to your statement, I now realize I may be able to calm things down and work better with him, but all of my best efforts will not stop him from losing it when he must or pull him back to reality in his thoughts... .if he doesn't want to go there. I sadly, appreciate the reality check.


Tigertwin,

"I suppose I am fortunate that I can walk away relatively unscathed - just some emotional and mental wounds that will hopefully heal with time."

You are very blessed to be able to walk away from this situation and not have to deal with it daily. I understand their behavior is so bizarre that a rationale mind tries to figure it out. However, there is nothing rational about pwBPD's minds or behaviors. Their emotional development is stunted during childhood. They do not have the ability to think and function, as an emotionally mature adult 100% of the time in their r/s, even though you may get glimpses of those moments. When you are ready, count your blessings and let this friend go.

Also, I suggest, telling your wife how much you love her and how grateful you are that she is the one you are spending your drama free marriage with. Don't go looking or creating problems, where you have none!

H88

[tigertwin]

FF,

Thanks again for your thoughts and feedback.  Having thought about it a bit more, your opinion on shame seems to make sense.  At the very least, it has gone some way to helping me rationalise the irrational.   

While I'll never know the reasons behind the shame, and perhaps she doesn't really know herself, I can see how this explains her behavior during the devaluation.  There has been no outward aggression towards me, just passive aggressive behaviour.  I can see she struggles to look me in the eye even when dealing with work-related discussion. I can almost see a sense of panic when she knows she has to talk to me.  It is almost like the anger and rage is directed inwards toward herself because of the shame and she is trying to hide it because I seem to bring it out of her. 

In some ironic and irrational way if blaming me has gone some way to easing her painful emotions associated with the shame, then I guess I would have helped her like I've done many times before.

H88,

Thank you for your kind words and putting things in perspective that I don't have to deal with this daily in family life.  I hope things work out for you and your H.

Letting this friend go fully is a process but I'm getting there - perhaps not as quickly as I would like.  I wish I could switch my emotions on and off like a pwBPD but at the moment I am cycling through range of emotions and ultimately there is sadness when a friendship ends.

As part of the process I'm trying to understand my own feelings about this whole thing.  I think there was a connection with her because I seemed to satisfy a neediness in her.  The issue is when you are regularly satisfying someone's needs, no matter how small, it starts to become habit.   Subconsciously, you start feeling responsible for that person's happiness.  I think when I was devalued, there was a feeling of failure on my part.  Nobody likes to feel like a failure.  In retrospect, being responsible for someone else's happiness if not a basis for a healthy friendship, or even relationship.

If I can take any positives out of this, is that this has given me a better appreciation of how lucky I am to have the wife I have.  I also have young kids, and having researched a lot about BPD and PD in general and how upbringing plays a part, I have a new found appreciation that being the best parents you can be is the best gift you can give your children.

[Healthy88]

Tigertwin,

Men generally have a tendency to want to feel needed (hence rescuing the damsel in distress). If their SO is strong, capable, busy with young children, etc she may not be tapping into that need for you so you enjoy getting it met elsewhere. If not careful, that can lead to problems.

Just think of the friend as a moody child, enjoy her when in a good mood and give her space when in a bad mood. You can't take BPD behaviors personally, as hard as that is to do, because it honestly is all about them... .not you. This friendship will never be an equally mature, giving friendship because your friend simply isn't capable of that.