Constant verbal/psychological abuse - I've gotta get out.

[Dry Bones]

Hi, everyone. Just a warning: This is going to be long. It's been several years since I last posted here and I wish I could say that's due to things getting better, but it's largely been for lack of energy. My situation has been largely the same since I last posted--riding the rollercoster of my uGFwBPD's predicatably unpredictable moods and behaviors. Thankfully, there haven't been any additional episodes of physical abuse, but the verbal and psychological abuse is pretty much nonstop from the moment she wakes up. One of the most difficult parts of it is that she will oftentimes seemingly "flip a switch" and start talking to me as a normal person, as if she wasn't berating me unmercifully just moments before. I've noticed this often happens when we drop the kids off at school and it's just me and her alone. Of course, it can go the other way too. The other morning, she was surprisingly pleasant after waking up. Then, she went to go take a shower, and when she got out, it was like a different persona had taken over.

The episode that I guess finally got me to say to myself, "It's time to get back onto BPDFamily and start seriously thinking about making some moves," happened the other evening. I was standing at the sink doing dishes and uGFwBPD walks over to me and says that our D11 was very upset, because her best friend got switched into an honors class at school. This hit hard, as D11 has been in the gifted and talented program at her school and is placed in all honors courses this year except for this one (Language Arts), with the one consolation at the time being that at least her friend would be in the class with her. Now, that consolation was gone. So with uGFwBPD telling me this as I do dishes, I (calmly) state that I think we should contact the school again and inquire about getting D11 into the honors class. At this, uGFwBPD starts to get agitated, stating that she already spoke to the guidance counseler (she did and the guidance counseler essentially said we should wait and see how things go over the first few weeks of school). I ask, "Do you want me to call this time?" and I am met with more shouting that I honestly cannot recall the content of at this time. At some point, I state that I just want what's best for my daughter and this struck a nerve. I guess, in her mind, my statement implied that she didn't want what's best for D11. She screams that if I cared about my kids, I would't be in a dead-end job, that I would have gotten a job years ago (I was working at the time, just not in the career I wanted, but nevermind that). Then, she rattles off a frenzied list of all the people who she says are "shocked" at how awful I am: my mom, her mom, friends, and family. Finally, she walks off and says, "I'm going to just end up killing you soon."

That wasn't the first death threat I've received from her. Actually, they are an almost common occurance now, and when I've brought it up, she claims that she's not serious. "Actions matter! Not words! But you wouldn't know that..."

I've been called every name in the book. She commonly calls me a "loser" and other, much more explicit--sexually explicit--things in front of our two young daughters. I feel like a shell of my former self. I feel like I am honestly getting stupider and don't even know how to react to the things she says and does. Sometimes, I'll say something like, "I understand that's how you feel." More often, I just stay silent.

A common target for uGFwBPD's blame and rage is my family. She's absolutely OBSESSED with them. This is even though I have no contact with my two siblings and only talk to my mom once in a blue moon. She'll talk about my father, who died of cancer two  years ago. She says he's burning in hell. My mother was also diagnosed with cancer earlier this year, and while she received successful treatment, uGFwBPD says she deserved the cancer and tells our daughters that she's basically dead already.

She's also taken to mocking me using a stereotypical baby voice, or alternatively, a voice meant to stereotype a mentally handicapped person. There's much more I could go into...her putting her new friends on a pedastal and pointing out how all their husbands are superior to me. "You're not a real man!" And, of course, some of what she says is true, or at least contains some grains of truth warped and twisted into her black and white way of thinking about the world.

I feel like I'm close to my breaking point honestly. Some days I just feel like walking out that door and never looking back, but I've got my two girls to think about. If I leave without them, that's abandonment to a judge. If I leave with them, that's parental kidnapping. uGFwBPD herself routinely states that she is going to up and leave--sometimes this involves taking one or both of the kids and sometimes not. She says this in front of them and uses the prospect of living with me as a deterrent for poor behavior. "I'll take D11 with me but you, D6, will have to stay with Daddy!"

And oh yeah, she's also insinuated that I sexually abuse our kids. This is so despicable to me, it's hard for me to even type out. I told my therapist about this once years back and afterwards, I suggested that, "I guess I can forgive her for saying that." I'll never forget my therapist's words in response. She said, "That's a pretty big thing to forgive."

And honestly, I don't forgive her for saying those things. She's not sorry and she keeps doing it. Just like I've never forgiven her for striking me with a set of keys in a public parking lot in 2017.

So, I'm stuck here. My job pays well for the position I'm in, but it's a low level position, and on most weeks, my paycheck is gone the next day on bills and other necessities. We're barely getting by, but I'm working to attain certifications applicable to my field that could potentially qualify me for a promotion. I just earned one in August. I've spoken to the higher ups at my company about this, and they tell me that if I can get the next certification I'm studying for, that a position MIGHT be available for me in January. If that doesn't happen, I'm going to have to start searching for other opportunities and I'm not looking forward to that.

Somehow, I need to get out of this situation, because I truly feel that I cannot take much more of this. What I've written barely scratches the surface. I feel for the rest of you out there and know that some of you have it even worse off--stuck in relationships where there is frequent physical abuse. We can do this. We're stronger than we give ourselves credit for. My sincerest thanks for reading this. I'll try to be on here more as I move towards an escape plan. Let's talk.

[ForeverDad]

Welcome back.   You're among friends here in peer support who have "been there, experienced that".

I feel like I'm close to my breaking point honestly. Some days I just feel like walking out that door and never looking back, but I've got my two girls to think about. If I leave without them, that's abandonment to a judge. If I leave with them, that's parental kidnapping. uGFwBPD herself routinely states that she is going to up and leave--sometimes this involves taking one or both of the kids and sometimes not.

Have you had any confidential and private consultations or interviews with local family law attorneys?  Would you really be abandoning or kidnapping the kids?  You feel stuck of course but knowing your legal options plus time-tested strategies from lawyers, counselors and here in peer support is so worthwhile.  With information you can determine how to improve your life and your children's lives.

Speaking of therapists, it would be wise for the children to have counseling as well.  School counselors are always available even if mother opposes counseling.  The children certainly are impacted by the home environment, the dysfunctional verbal rants, rages and insinuations.  (And having that resource ought to reduce the risk of sexual abuse insinuations.)

[Dry Bones]

Welcome back.   You're among friends here in peer support who have "been there, experienced that".

Hi ForeverDad, thank you for the warm welcome. I've appreciated your candor and sound advice while lurking on these forums in the past. Hopefully, I can also use the experience that I am going through to help others.

Have you had any confidential and private consultations or interviews with local family law attorneys?  Would you really be abandoning or kidnapping the kids?  You feel stuck of course but knowing your legal options plus time-tested strategies from lawyers, counselors and here in peer support is so worthwhile.  With information you can determine how to improve your life and your children's lives.

The answer to this question is no, but it's on my list of things to do. Alot rides on my financial situation, as hiring a lawyer would likely not be possible without additional funding That said, I realize that many lawyers do offer a free consultation, so I'm thinking of finding and speaking with a few in the months to come.

Of course, doing this discreetly will be a challenge. Our family only has one vehicle (that I pay for). I have an agreement with uGFwBPD that she drives it throughout the day, so that she can pick up the kids from school and work her job (delivering for a popular app-based delivery service). I'm consistently put down for "having mommy drive you to work," ("mommy" being my uGFwBPD just to be clear) even though it's legally my car and I make all the payments on it (not  to mention the insurance). Honestly, the car situation is a whole other story, but suffice to say the way she flips it is mildly infuriating.

All that to say, it's gonna be tough. Tough but not impossible, and I realize that it's something that I'll need to do. I've started reading the book "Splitting" for now, and between that book and returning to these boards, I'm hoping that it will help build me up enough courage to take the next step.

Speaking of therapists, it would be wise for the children to have counseling as well.  School counselors are always available even if mother opposes counseling.  The children certainly are impacted by the home environment, the dysfunctional verbal rants, rages and insinuations.  (And having that resource ought to reduce the risk of sexual abuse insinuations.)

You're absolutely right and my biggest concern throughout all of this is how my daughters will be affected. For many years, I was back and forth on wanting to stay and work things out or throw in the towel and separate. At some point, it became clear that eventually a separation would need to occur. But I wondered to myself if maybe it would be better to hang in there for a few more years. I recall reading that divorce/separation is harder on children the younger they are at the time. So I thought that by staying, I was somehow limiting the damage to them. But for them to experience this...I was brought up in a troubled household and my parents eventually divorced. I came out wounded but basically alright. My younger brother and sister otoh have had many many difficulties over the courses of their lives--suffering from extreme mental illness and substance abuse issues. This is but one anecdote, I know, but I don't want that same fate for my two daughters.

School counseling is a good idea. I'll have to look into it, although I'll have to figure out a way to sell it to my daughters and not have it seem like there is something wrong with them that they need it. Perhaps getting back into therapy myself would be a good way to lead by example. No doubt, that act will be twisted as well, but that's inevitable for pretty everything these days.

[CravingPeace]

"I'm stuck here"

The most important thing you said.

Releasing that feeling was my biggest break through in leaving an abusive marriage with uBPD. I learned that feeling stuck was from boarding school and my family or origin. It felt normal, I was stuck. I have a 1year old, 5 year old and 7 year old. So yes not easy stuff.

The truth is you are probably not stuck like you feel. Working with a therapist to understand this, release this, and plot a path forward may give you the insight you need.  I am wishing you the best. This is a hard but rewarding journey.

Trust me you are not really stuck. Its a construct in your mind. You can break free if you do the work and it's what YOU want.

[Pook075]

Finally, she walks off and says, "I'm going to just end up killing you soon."

Hey Dry Bones, I'm so sorry you're going through this hell all by yourself.  Several things made me cringe while reading your story because I never had it anywhere near that bad.  I went through hell too but darn.....you have me beat 1,000x.

That one line I quoted above, I didn't cringe at that though, I smiled.

Memorize this phrase- "My wife is a threat to herself or others."

The next time she's violent, abusive, threatening, etc, you pick up the phone, dial 9-1-1, and repeat the magic phrase.  The police will come and an ambulance will be shortly behind them.  Meanwhile, your wife will either rage at everyone OR play the innocent victim, trying to redirect everything at you.

It doesn't matter though, you simply repeat the magic phrase over and over again.  "I don't feel safe here, my wife is a threat to herself and others."

Ultimately, the paramedics will take your wife for an involuntary psych hold...and basically nothing of note will happen from this process.  Maybe your wife comes home even worse than before, which is when you recite the magic words to 9-1-1 all over again.  Another visit, another potential psych hold.  She's enraged while you actually have some peace and quiet in the home.

This does two very important things.  #1, it creates a paper trail for an attorney or a judge down the road.  #2, it teaches your wife (the hard way) that actions and even words have consequences.

It's time to start fighting back through the legal system and broken mental healthcare system.  This sets the stage for her leaving (with or without the kids) and gives you the best possible chances of gaining initial custody regardless of her actions.  If she doesn't follow doctor orders or court orders, well great...she's doing you a huge favor for later on.

Again, I'm so sorry you're in this position.  Please let us know how we can help!

[ForeverDad]

Memorize this phrase- "My wife is a threat to herself or others."

The next time she's violent, abusive, threatening, etc, you pick up the phone, dial 9-1-1, and repeat the magic phrase.  The police will come and an ambulance will be shortly behind them.  Meanwhile, your wife will either rage at everyone OR play the innocent victim, trying to redirect everything at you...

Ultimately, the paramedics will take your wife for an involuntary psych hold...and basically nothing of note will happen from this process.  Maybe your wife comes home even worse than before, which is when you recite the magic words to 9-1-1 all over again.  Another visit, another potential psych hold.  She's enraged while you actually have some peace and quiet in the home.

This does two very important things.  #1, it creates a paper trail for an attorney or a judge down the road.  #2, it teaches your wife (the hard way) that actions and even words have consequences.

To expand on this, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) are apt to Deny, Blame and Blame Shift.  A pwBPD is likely to suddenly "recover" and deny or blame shift when emergency responders arrive.  How will you convince them what really happened?  Either have witnesses or have recordings as witness.  That way it's not your word against the other's denial.  (No, don't wave your phone or device around since that can trigger an incident.)

[PeteWitsend]

Dry Bones:

welcome back and sorry you're going through such a rough time.  it sounds absolutely miserable.

In addition to some of the advice above, I'd look into getting a voice activated recorder (VAR) and leaving it on.  take some time - maybe at work - to get comfortable using it, and find a place to stash it where it can still record, but your wife won't find it.

you can also use your phone; I know iPhones have voice recorders on them.  Again, practice with it first, to make sure you know how it works, so you're not surprised by any unexpected "Beeps" or other noises that your wife would hear.

They tend to explode when they realize you've recorded them,
so discretion is important.

And don't feel guilty or let her guilt trip you for being sneaky.... she's making death threats (and even without the death threats, her behavior is abusive and unhinged).

Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids while you get away from this nightmare of a person.

[livednlearned]

It never gets easy hearing how people like you are treated or talked to by BPD partners. What you're experiencing is a lot for anyone to live through. You deserve to be feel safe and loved.

Sometimes people here offer advice that maybe worked in their scenario, or they see in retrospect that it was how they should have handled something. If it feels overwhelming (some of the advice offered here would've felt that way for me), it's ok to pay attention and take a breath and regroup.

My advice to you is to seek out people who center you. These are complex relationships and when there are minor kids involved and dangerous behaviors (including false allegations), it's important to get centered as much as you can so you can think carefully about the best way to move forward (or stay put, as may be the case). Getting centered will help you gather information and put together a strategy, including contingencies, to help guide you when your nervous system is on high alert or on tilt, which can happen to those of us in relationships with unsafe partners.  

For example, before you do anything, I would check with legal counsel about her threat and what her words amount to -- it's awful we hear the mother or father of our child say these things to us but whether it will mean the same thing to police or courts is a different matter.

Where I lived during my BPD marriage/divorce, a threat was actionable when it was accompanied by how that violence would be carried out.

For example, "I'm going to kill you" was not the same as "I'm going to run you over with my car."

I'm not saying don't call if you feel unsafe, just be informed about how things work if you do. She's a high-conflict personality, not just BPD, and she is already trying out false allegations. For you, especially as a man, it's essential to find out how they handle DV calls where you live. A lawyer will be able to tell you that, and a progressive DV center that recognizes intimate partner abuse can also tell you that. So can law enforcement -- some departments have social workers you can talk to if you're comfortable doing that.  

In some states, police will take away the person most likely to inflict damage regardless of who made the initial call. If you call and say you don't feel safe, and they show up and she says you tried to kill her, they may take you away simply because you're bigger than her.

In some states, they make a mandatory arrest and in other states, they don't. It's important you know how things work where you live, and that you understand what will happen so you aren't blind-sided or worse, inadvertently putting yourself in a one-down position.

Also, if you think it's likely you'll be calling law enforcement, it's not a bad idea to have a plan for what kind of counseling the kids have access to immediately after. My parenting coordinator (a child psychologist) shared that watching a parent be arrested regardless of cause is among the most traumatic things kids can witness and experience. I took that to heart. There are many ways to solve problems. Calling law enforcement might be one way but look at all other options so you're making an informed decision. Our families have small margins for any unexpected chaos!

If you have a neighbor you trust, a therapist may counsel you to get your kids out of the house before you call -- meaning, it's not about whether to call or not, it's making informed decisions and understanding pros and cons to the hard decisions we often have to make.

As for free legal consults -- that wasn't an option where I lived. The way it worked is that I could get 30 min for $100 that would be included in any retainer I might have to pay, if I decided to retain them. These initial consults can be rich in information. The few I did helped me figure out what kind of documentation would help given my circumstances. Something I would flag to an attorney if I were in your shoes are the false allegations of child abuse -- that is almost certainly a card your GF will play if she's already saying this to people. The question is why, if she believes that, is she not trying to put a stop to it. A free or low-cost consult can help you figure out what if any documentation might help you if your partner escalates things, or makes good on her false allegations.  

If funds are really tight, it's also possible that there are churches nearby with divorce support groups. You may find free resources there and collectives knowledge about whether there are DV support groups for male partners in your area. Not just for emotional support but for access to resources designed for people who are in your situation. My support group helped me figure out whether to live and then how to leave. They were in difficult situations of their own, at different stages, and I learned a lot about different judges and lawyers and therapists in my area, including who to avoid and how to create a safety plan.

A lot of people here wait until they're ready to go before gathering information. I think gathering information can actually be what gives many of us confidence to finally take that big leap off the cliff. If you know what's on the other side it can be a lot less daunting.

 

[Elitevaz]

She's really reaching for any way to impart a psychological pain on you and it's deliberate. The accusations might be so far detached from reality, but it's like just saying it out loud so you imagine it and feel pain from it. I'm long separated from my ex with undiagnosed bpd, but the behaviors are hard to empathize with. I really want to make sense of them. She did a lot of similar behavior to me. Just reaching for anyway to tell me something wild that would upset me. Once she found something she would keep using that more and more. It's like you can show weakness or that you care. Whatever you care about will be used to hurt you. I always thought that it was something about my personality or me that was triggering her. You know, because then I have control over myself so I would be able to change the way I interact with her to keep her out of those moods. Listening to your story I see the same kind of frustration, but I guess looking in from the outside, I think I see it. It looks like an energy transfer of sorts. You aren't exactly triggering her. She has expectations of how reality should unfold. When it doesn't work out that way she feels hurt and it almost looks like she's trying to put you on the same level she is. Like making you feel pain too. Her being upset about the news of your daughter in school. You really can't and shouldn't force that on the school, but she has an expectation that her daughter is special or gifted and should have the highest status, right? That's common for many parents. However, not every kid will deliver a performance like that. She can't really do anything about that now and the both of you are pretty powerless in the situation. I don't think she has the mental maturity to process that disappointment out, so lashing out on you seems to act like a sort of catharsis. It's very natural when we are angry we want to hurt others. Of course you feel terrible once the anger subsides. However, the dr jekyll/mr hyde extreme emotional mood swings are very commonly reported. Think about all the disappointments or nice things that happen to you through a day. Things that for the most part are out of your control. We know that people suffering from bpd have sort of magnified emotions. Essentially they are incapable of being a little bit happy or mid angry. They are just 100% in whatever direction they feel. That would explain why she can't just say some kind of mean things to you. She needs to tell you the absolute worst things she knows that can make a person feel like crap. Likely if she's triggered to be happy, she tells you how you are the best in existence, regardless of the flaws you know are present. The triggers can be litterally anything at all. Things you have control over and things you don't. I remember one time my ex had a dream where I cheated on her somehow and woke up and gave me hell over it. All I wanted to do was defend from it, but that is really just about me, right? I don't want my image tarnished. It's like what needs to be addressed and discovered is what they are hurting from. I don't need to reassure her I didn't cheat on her. I need to calm her about the dream and acknowledge the hurt she feels. My guilt is pretty much irrelevant because she already received the feeling of being cheated on. The feelings have to be dealt with, not the truth. Something that helps them get into these situations is that most or all bpd sufferers seem to be impulsive. They make quick poorly informed decisions which lead to unfavorable outcomes typically. Usually things they can't undo, such as taking out her anger on you without a care of how it affects you. All that matters is how she feels in the moment. If she truly thought you were such a terrible person....why is she partnered up with you? It's nonsense. Then when they meet new people, they seek out validation from them, right? Massive amounts of validation are needed. That makes sense why you'll notice bpd sufferers will quickly tell you about character flaws. So they can hear someone say "it's not you" "that's not your fault" "you aren't that bad". All that feels really good. It's soothing to hear someone say that. Especially when the people in your more established relationships are aware of the true self and most likely have developed countermeasures and already revealed that yes indeed this person isn't normal and is a burden to be around. That's very depressing. Imagine everyone you got to know after 3 months discovers that it sucks being around you. Even though you know 100% it's your fault, but you feel powerless to stop that OUTCOME. Much of this surrounds power and control. The triggers are things that are outside the sufferers agency or control. Like the decision of the school, you guys don't have power over them. Even if your child was perfect, that authority could still reject your daughter. You said she was upset about your career. She has NO POWER over what you do with your career and many women are kind of stuck like that when they are not the breadwinner. You just don't have control over what someone else does with their career. So she's upset you didn't do better and maybe you told her your desire or dreams or whatever and then she expected that would become reality. One day she might just think about what you told her about your dreams, think about how much time has passed, see that the story you painted for the future didn't come to pass and then the disappointment happens. She can't be a little upset about it, because her brain doesn't work that way physically. So she's 100% upset at you, because reality is different from the story. Now she's upset. Have you ever been really upset about something and you see someone else that you think should be upset too or maybe they are the one that upset you, and you look at them going about their life and they are just unfazed. They don't even KNOW that you are upset. They don't KNOW what you are feeling. It seems like they couldn't care less about you or how you feel right now. You're not thinking about how they have no clue you just did a life review and got disappointed by reality. Why should that person be allowed to go about their day unfazed or even happy? It's your fault for not excelling in your career so she doesn't have to feel this way. All that could be going through her mind and feelings. It's a completely different perspective on reality than what you would likely go through or even expect, but perhaps if I write it that way it makes more sense where the anger comes from. My ex used to get into all kinds of moods over stuff I had nothing to do with. The person doing her wrong often had no idea they were upsetting her either. This was especially true for coworkers. My goodness everyone has a plot to make her day worse in some way. It was the most nonsense plots too, like the person wasn't going to benefit from it and you would think it's high risk to getting fired, just to make her feel bad. I notice this pattern also happens in people that don't have BPD. The difference is that since they can regulate their emotions, you don't get the same emotional swing. It really seems to be about emotional security. If you think of how kids react. If you tell them something about the future, they will set an expectation that it will happen. Take this for example. Your daughter is 9 and her birthday is coming up soon. You tell her that you want to take her to chuck e cheese for her birthday, but you need to work extra to afford it. You work extra but you find that you still don't have enough when her birthday is coming around. You tell that instead of chuck e cheese it's going to be hotdogs and hamburgers in the back yard. THINK about your 9 year old self and how you feel getting that news. Now imagine you never learned to deal with reality doing that, but instead of 9, you are 25 years old. Tell me that doesn't apply to how your partner reacted to the school's news. This is even in step with the scientific evidence showing that lack of development in the brain. The emotions are extreme, the expectations are inflexible, there's impulsive execution, and a complete lack of accountability. A normally matured person can deal with what life throws at us daily without receiving such an internal disturbance from it. It seems to be that much like with children, people with bpd need to be sheltered from reality in the same fashion children are in order to prevent frequent episodes and even then you will still get some bad behavior from the disturbances that originate from within (low self esteem, but the expectations were set for someone that has high self esteem and autonomy). What do you think? Am I missing anything here? Any different thoughts?

[try2heal]

@Elitevaz OMG you have nailed it. All of it. The upwBPD feels a negative emotion, of any kind, (shame, envy, fear, frustration, anger, guilt) they have to attack and make everyone around them feel the same way. To do that to their partner, they know they can grab onto any deep dark thing that has been shared--past trauma, boundaries about who to talk to, fears--or take steps to dampen any happiness--you're not all that, you're never going to have a man stay with you if you keep mothering your kids like that--and twist the knife.

[Dry Bones]

Hey Dry Bones, I'm so sorry you're going through this hell all by yourself.  Several things made me cringe while reading your story because I never had it anywhere near that bad.  I went through hell too but darn.....you have me beat 1,000x.

That one line I quoted above, I didn't cringe at that though, I smiled.

Memorize this phrase- "My wife is a threat to herself or others."

The next time she's violent, abusive, threatening, etc, you pick up the phone, dial 9-1-1, and repeat the magic phrase.  The police will come and an ambulance will be shortly behind them.  Meanwhile, your wife will either rage at everyone OR play the innocent victim, trying to redirect everything at you.

It doesn't matter though, you simply repeat the magic phrase over and over again.  "I don't feel safe here, my wife is a threat to herself and others."

Ultimately, the paramedics will take your wife for an involuntary psych hold...and basically nothing of note will happen from this process.  Maybe your wife comes home even worse than before, which is when you recite the magic words to 9-1-1 all over again.  Another visit, another potential psych hold.  She's enraged while you actually have some peace and quiet in the home.

This does two very important things.  #1, it creates a paper trail for an attorney or a judge down the road.  #2, it teaches your wife (the hard way) that actions and even words have consequences.

It's time to start fighting back through the legal system and broken mental healthcare system.  This sets the stage for her leaving (with or without the kids) and gives you the best possible chances of gaining initial custody regardless of her actions.  If she doesn't follow doctor orders or court orders, well great...she's doing you a huge favor for later on.

Again, I'm so sorry you're in this position.  Please let us know how we can help!

Hi there, Pook075. Thanks so much for your reply. Yeah, sometimes I have to remind myself of how far outside the boundaries of a healthy relationship I really I am. It's been so long living in this craziness, that it's become normalized really. And my FoO wasn't exactly a healthy environment either, so being used to disfunction to a certain extent likely aided me in settling into this routine when I should have recognized the red flags that were there right from the start.

My uGFwBPD has been sent to the local psych ward on two different occasions while we've been together. The first time was about 10 years ago now. We had just gotten back from vacation and she was in such a miserable mood about coming home to our house (which was/is in need of an extensive remodel), that I said, "If you don't like it here, just leave." She flipped and went to take our 1 year old daughter with her and I was like, "No, our daughter stays here." At this, uGFwBPD pulled a kitchen knife and went ballistic. The police were called at uGFwBPD's mother's behest (she was present and witnessed all of this). The police came and basically took my side saying that the law states that the child can't be taken out of her home, and that since I wasn't kicking out my uGFwBPD, there were no grounds for her to take our daughter with her if she chose to leave. Anyway, they took her to the psych ward for the suicide threats and she was released shortly thereafter. Somehow, we patched things up after this.

The second trip to the psych ward was only between a year and two years ago and not quite as dramatic. UBPDGF is in extreme credit card debt. At one point, she had something like 12 credit cards...and she wasn't even working. Look, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I've got credit card debt as well, but mine is 2 cards--one of which I didn't want to take out but our single car needed repairs at the time, so I took the opportunity when offered. 12 credit cards seems a bit extreme to me, especially when you don't have a job, and I chalk that up to the BPD in retrospect.

Anyway, we had a joint bank account and her creditors took my whole paycheck one day leaving our family with absolutely nothing to live off of for the week. She called the bank hysterical, threatened suicide, and the police came to take her away again. I had to leave my job early that day to pick up our girls at school while she was being evaluated.

I guess my point of sharing these episodes is to say that I know that I need to set boundaries, and I know a paper trail is a must if I'm to have any chance of a fair custody arrangement, but these two incidents were major traumas and not something that I would wish to incite once again...not until I'm absolutely ready to move out and have all my ducks in a row as far as the legalities. Right now, I'm basically a punching bag (figuratively speaking), because I know as soon as I try and set some boundaries again, we'll end up in a very similar situation to the ones described above.

I dunno, though, I'm so deep in the thick of it, maybe I'm not thinking straight here. I'm open to other opinions on what an appropriate response would look like

Dry Bones:

welcome back and sorry you're going through such a rough time.  it sounds absolutely miserable.

In addition to some of the advice above, I'd look into getting a voice activated recorder (VAR) and leaving it on.  take some time - maybe at work - to get comfortable using it, and find a place to stash it where it can still record, but your wife won't find it.

you can also use your phone; I know iPhones have voice recorders on them.  Again, practice with it first, to make sure you know how it works, so you're not surprised by any unexpected "Beeps" or other noises that your wife would hear.

They tend to explode when they realize you've recorded them,
so discretion is important.

And don't feel guilty or let her guilt trip you for being sneaky.... she's making death threats (and even without the death threats, her behavior is abusive and unhinged).

Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your kids while you get away from this nightmare of a person.

Hi Pete, and thank you. Your last line has been echoing in my head since I read it a few days ago. I hate to cast stones, but it is a nightmare of a situation alright and extremely toxic.

I've dabbled with recording, but yes, I am anxious about her finding out somehow. I think my phone is probably the best option and I've been looking into the best way to go about it. I do have a few recordings of her, but they're not during her worst rants and they aren't of the death threats. I think I've been procrastinating on this in part with the excuse that the legal system will only care about things that have happened very recently. I haven't been ready to leave the relationship over the last few years, and I'm still not quite there yet, but hopefully if a couple of things fall into place over the next 6 months or so, I'll finally be in a position to get out. So it's time to get serious about collecting evidence.

Thank you both, and my apologies for the delayed reply. Between a hectic schedule and the need for secrecy, I regret being unable to type this up sooner.

[Dry Bones]

It never gets easy hearing how people like you are treated or talked to by BPD partners. What you're experiencing is a lot for anyone to live through. You deserve to be feel safe and loved.

Sometimes people here offer advice that maybe worked in their scenario, or they see in retrospect that it was how they should have handled something. If it feels overwhelming (some of the advice offered here would've felt that way for me), it's ok to pay attention and take a breath and regroup.

Hi lived, thanks so much for your reply and support. You're absolutely right: it is overwhelming, and not because of anyone's suggestions, but just because life is difficult even under "normal" circumstances. My career is such that, unfortunately, I can't just go to work, clock in, work my eight hours, clock out, and be done with it. If I want to advance, I need to earn certifications and that requires more time outside of work hours. Add in trying to be a halfway decent father while not neglecting myself along the way (I have been going to the gym over the last month to try and lose some weight), and the prospect of having to become an expert in BPD and our state's legal system is a daunting prospect. But I think I'm doing OK overall. I keep a journal to help organize my thoughts and what I need to prioritize and that's been helping me keep my head a bit.   

My advice to you is to seek out people who center you. These are complex relationships and when there are minor kids involved and dangerous behaviors (including false allegations), it's important to get centered as much as you can so you can think carefully about the best way to move forward (or stay put, as may be the case). Getting centered will help you gather information and put together a strategy, including contingencies, to help guide you when your nervous system is on high alert or on tilt, which can happen to those of us in relationships with unsafe partners.

Thank you for the advice. I honestly don't have many people I talk to these days outside of my coworkers. I have on good friend from my middle school days who I still see regularly. I've never spoken to him of my relationship issues even though I'm sure it's plain to him as he's been witness to many of her remarks and behaviors over the years. She's generally on better behavior when people are around, but she makes sure to say little things here and there and then isolates herself in our (her) bedroom.

My world has certainly become smaller. I'm hoping to find a good therapist soon. I've done therapy several times in the past. I'd say out of the six or so therapists I've had, two or three have really clicked with me and been positive experiences. I don't think any of those three would work now for various reasons, however, so the search is on...  

For example, before you do anything, I would check with legal counsel about her threat and what her words amount to -- it's awful we hear the mother or father of our child say these things to us but whether it will mean the same thing to police or courts is a different matter.

Where I lived during my BPD marriage/divorce, a threat was actionable when it was accompanied by how that violence would be carried out.

For example, "I'm going to kill you" was not the same as "I'm going to run you over with my car."

Thank you, that is an important detail that I'll need to look up. I've gotten both types of threats honestly. The general variety more often probably, but also specific ones. Stuff like, "I'm going to smother you with your pillow while you're asleep and nobody will even question it because of how fat you are. They'll think you had a heart attack." And just the other day, "I'm going to set the couch on fire...with you on it."

Again, if pressed, she'll say she wasn't serious, but you have to be pretty sick to even say something like that. And I know there is a train of thought that goes, "If they can say it, they can do it." So, I'm being very careful with any steps I take. God help me. 

Everything else you wrote below this is valuable advice as well, and I'm taking it to heart. Forgive me for snipping it.

As for free legal consults -- that wasn't an option where I lived. The way it worked is that I could get 30 min for $100 that would be included in any retainer I might have to pay, if I decided to retain them. These initial consults can be rich in information. The few I did helped me figure out what kind of documentation would help given my circumstances. Something I would flag to an attorney if I were in your shoes are the false allegations of child abuse -- that is almost certainly a card your GF will play if she's already saying this to people. The question is why, if she believes that, is she not trying to put a stop to it. A free or low-cost consult can help you figure out what if any documentation might help you if your partner escalates things, or makes good on her false allegations.

Yeah, I'm really concerned about the smear campaign. She is definitely capable of "flipping the switch" to appear normal after an incident. She was discharged after both of the suicide threats I wrote about above and they (supposedly) told her that it was understandable that she was upset given the circumstances and that she was just being observed for the time they were legally required to do so. Likewise, with the one span of time she went to see a therapist. The person she saw seemed to do more harm than good, as from what I'm told, they just validated her feelings and said that she was depressed due to extenuating circumstances--that anyone would feel the way she does if they were in her position. Her sessions ended with the therapist (who was not even done with her training mind you) telling her that she didn't need therapy any more.

I feel like I'm being gaslit to hell and back. Just yesterday, uBPDGF sent me a link to something she saw on social media that supposedly described all the attributes of a narcissistic man. "That's you!" she said to me. In her mind, I'm the abuser. If I do the dishes, and she finds a stray smudge on something, that's me doing a poor job purposefully in order to get her to wash them next time.

I made the mistake years ago when I first found out about BPD of suggesting to her, in the context of a sincere conversation, that she might have it. Now, I know this was a huge mistake, but I did not realize this at the time and was still hoping to find a way to repair our damaged relationship. She told this to the head psychiatrist at the place where she was attending therapy at the time, and he apparently said something to the effect of how damaging it was for me to say that. So that just solidified in her brain that I'm the abuser.

I've since stopped caring about whether she technically has BPD or not. I described alot of what she's said and done to one of my therapists (the same one I told about the child assault insinuations) and her reply was whether or not it's BPD, it's clearly some form of mental illness at work.

Back to the smearing...she's taken on leadership positions in a couple of different volunteer organizations in our community over the past several years. And she frequently mentions (brags about) how many friends she has and how she tells all of them about how horrible I am. So I know I'm in for a battle...

Alright, I'm spent. I'll be back though. Thank you for the replies Elitevaz and try2heal. I'll reply to your posts as soon as I can, but yes, there are many truths to what you describe. I almost feel like I've seen and heard it all at this point. I feel like I'm doing a decent job of not buying into the insults anymore at least. I listened to an audiobook recently that centered around stoicism and the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius. I found some good techniques there for staying sane in the face of so much venom being thrown at me.

If funds are really tight, it's also possible that there are churches nearby with divorce support groups. You may find free resources there and collectives knowledge about whether there are DV support groups for male partners in your area. Not just for emotional support but for access to resources designed for people who are in your situation. My support group helped me figure out whether to live and then how to leave. They were in difficult situations of their own, at different stages, and I learned a lot about different judges and lawyers and therapists in my area, including who to avoid and how to create a safety plan.

A lot of people here wait until they're ready to go before gathering information. I think gathering information can actually be what gives many of us confidence to finally take that big leap off the cliff. If you know what's on the other side it can be a lot less daunting.

 
[/quote]

[ForeverDad]

Yeah, I'm really concerned about the smear campaign. She is definitely capable of "flipping the switch" to appear normal after an incident. She was discharged after both of the suicide threats I wrote about above and they (supposedly) told her that it was understandable that she was upset given the circumstances and that she was just being observed for the time they were legally required to do so. Likewise, with the one span of time she went to see a therapist. The person she saw seemed to do more harm than good, as from what I'm told, they just validated her feelings and said that she was depressed due to extenuating circumstances--that anyone would feel the way she does if they were in her position. Her sessions ended with the therapist (who was not even done with her training mind you) telling her that she didn't need therapy any more.

I feel like I'm being gaslit to hell and back.

If your partner is the "source" who informed you what the therapists said, then be fully aware you can't trust what she was really told, not unless you personally communicated with the professionals.  It is everyone's inclination to minimize bad news, and that goes double for the disordered whose sense of balanced thinking is seriously skewed.

One of our members years ago wrote he knew when his ex was lying - whenever she opened her mouth.

[Dry Bones]

Hi Elitevaz, thanks again for your reply. Much of what you wrote is spot on. I've got a few thoughts to follow up on. Please let me know what you think.

She's really reaching for any way to impart a psychological pain on you and it's deliberate. The accusations might be so far detached from reality, but it's like just saying it out loud so you imagine it and feel pain from it. I'm long separated from my ex with undiagnosed bpd, but the behaviors are hard to empathize with. I really want to make sense of them. She did a lot of similar behavior to me. Just reaching for anyway to tell me something wild that would upset me. Once she found something she would keep using that more and more.

This is true in my experience as well. Back at the start of our relationship, I'll admit to being insecure about some of my uBPDgf's exes. Those insecurities would be exploited whenever we had a fight. She also would claim to have been intimate with people and then later retracted the statement, so I wouldn't know what was true and what wasn't. Recently, she even said that our second daughter isn't really mine, which I know is BS.

Her being upset about the news of your daughter in school. You really can't and shouldn't force that on the school, but she has an expectation that her daughter is special or gifted and should have the highest status, right? That's common for many parents. However, not every kid will deliver a performance like that. She can't really do anything about that now and the both of you are pretty powerless in the situation. I don't think she has the mental maturity to process that disappointment out, so lashing out on you seems to act like a sort of catharsis.

Yeah, as far as the school situation goes, I was more the one pushing to try and get D11 into that class. I know D11 wants to be in that class, or she wouldn't be so upset, and I believe she's capable of it, as she had excellent grades in Language Arts last year. She didn't do quite well enough on the standardize testing, which could have been for a variety of reasons. Maybe she would be a good fit for the honors class--maybe not. I just remember back when I was in school having to push to get into an honors English class my first year of high school. I ended up having a meeting with the department head and they cited some sarcastic remarks I had made in one essay as the reason for me not being placed. They eventually relented, putting me in the honors class, and I ended up doing really well. So I think that sometimes you just need to push a little in these situations.

So I just wanted to clarify who was on what side of that argument. I think the issue boils down to insecurities uBPDgf has about her education. She dropped out of HS when she was younger, eventually obtaining a GED. I finished my bachelor's in college, after many years of on and off classes, battling my own inner demons. uBPDgf repeatedly refers to me as "pompous" and that I think I'm smarter than everyone else. Yet, she also goes around calling other people "stupid" on a regular basis. I do my best to validate uBPDgf's intelligence, but it never seems to be enough. The other thing is the embarrassment factor. If I don't know something right away, she'll snap at me. I remember a few years back when we were signing up D11 for swimming lessons, it was at the same place I went to as a child some 25 years ago. When I didn't instantly remember where the entrance gate was to the facility, she nearly had a meltdown!

I remember one time my ex had a dream where I cheated on her somehow and woke up and gave me hell over it. All I wanted to do was defend from it, but that is really just about me, right? I don't want my image tarnished. It's like what needs to be addressed and discovered is what they are hurting from. I don't need to reassure her I didn't cheat on her. I need to calm her about the dream and acknowledge the hurt she feels. My guilt is pretty much irrelevant because she already received the feeling of being cheated on. The feelings have to be dealt with, not the truth.

This exact same scenario happened to me where uBPDgf got angry at me over something I apparently did in a dream. I feel terrible, because right from the very start of our relationship, she said things like, "You don't love me. You're going to leave me." Now, those fears are about to be realized. But in many ways it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, because even if we didn't have a perfect relationship, I probably would hang in there. But I can't tolerate the extreme bouts of verbal abuse any longer. And the living in fear of things escalating even further as they have in the past.

So she's upset you didn't do better and maybe you told her your desire or dreams or whatever and then she expected that would become reality. One day she might just think about what you told her about your dreams, think about how much time has passed, see that the story you painted for the future didn't come to pass and then the disappointment happens.

Yeah, I mean when we first met 13 years ago, I was lead singer in a band. We were doing pretty well on our local circuit, so maybe she honestly thought I would be a famous rock star. It took me a while to get over that dream when it became clear it wasn't going to happen, but I've done alot of work to clean up my act and better myself to become a better father. I have other goals and aspirations now that uBPDgf honestly doesn't want to hear about. I still love singing, but I CANNOT sing in front of her anymore. She berates me about how awful my voice is. She hates the sound of it now. And, thinking back, this about-face didn't even take place after I "gave up the dream." Even when I was still trying to make it, she would make comments and tell me to be quiet when I was practicing. I can honestly say she contributed to me giving up singing.

Have you ever been really upset about something and you see someone else that you think should be upset too or maybe they are the one that upset you, and you look at them going about their life and they are just unfazed. They don't even KNOW that you are upset. They don't KNOW what you are feeling. It seems like they couldn't care less about you or how you feel right now. You're not thinking about how they have no clue you just did a life review and got disappointed by reality. Why should that person be allowed to go about their day unfazed or even happy?

Yup, I'm often accused of "not caring" and generally being aloof to how awful our lives supposedly are. uBPDgf doesn't understand that I'm constantly worrying about things as well. I take long walks at lunch just to work through my feelings on many days. And I've also taken to keeping a journal. Today, I called a therapist to set up an initial consultation. Because I don't walk around in a miserable mood 24/7, that indicates to uBPDgf that I don't care about our family or situation in life.

The emotions are extreme, the expectations are inflexible, there's impulsive execution, and a complete lack of accountability. A normally matured person can deal with what life throws at us daily without receiving such an internal disturbance from it. It seems to be that much like with children, people with bpd need to be sheltered from reality in the same fashion children are in order to prevent frequent episodes and even then you will still get some bad behavior from the disturbances that originate from within (low self esteem, but the expectations were set for someone that has high self esteem and autonomy). What do you think? Am I missing anything here? Any different thoughts?

I hear what you're saying. I've definitely seen a correlation between stressful/disappointing situations and the emotional dysregulations. There's alot of black and white thinking. Her mom even told me once (after uBPDgf had an episode during a family dinner) that she's been like this since she was a child. "Everything always had to be perfect."

Now, it's looking like we will soon need to move out of our house of 12 years. That's a story for another post, but needless to say, I've got a tremendous amount of anxiety about it. I'm not sure what I should do--do we go our separate ways when move-out time comes? Or do I help uBPDgf transition to a new place and then leave? I don't know how she is going to afford a place of her own. Heck, I'm not entirely sure how I will afford my own place. She said this week that she's leaving me and applying for government aid, but I don't know how serious she is about it, because later on she'll make statements implying she plans for us to move out together. What a mess...

[ForeverDad]

Now, it's looking like we will soon need to move out of our house of 12 years. That's a story for another post, but needless to say, I've got a tremendous amount of anxiety about it. I'm not sure what I should do--do we go our separate ways when move-out time comes? Or do I help uBPDgf transition to a new place and then leave? I don't know how she is going to afford a place of her own. Heck, I'm not entirely sure how I will afford my own place. She said this week that she's leaving me and applying for government aid, but I don't know how serious she is about it, because later on she'll make statements implying she plans for us to move out together. What a mess...

Your spouse is "all over the map... consistently inconsistent.  I'm sure you have sensed that a move will not fix anything.  The current residence is not the real issue, it's her own issues and perceptions.

However, that said, a move might be a proper time to split, if that's what you decide and if you're well prepared, "have your ducks in a row".  (One of your top priorities should be to ensure you've done all you can to establish that you're the primary parent caring for the girls, both timewise and for school responsibility.)  If you're still with her then she is less likely to get government aid.