Telling uQuiet BPD spouse that I want a divorce tomorrow

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been married to my spouse for 16 years. 90% of my life with her has been wonderful but 10% has been absolute hell. So much so, that she has destroyed our marriage. This summer I realized she is a high-functioning BPD. Her biological son told me a year ago that he has to think of her as 2 people; one is his mother whom he loves and has to forgive, and the other is a tyrant.

We have 5 kids (3 hers, 1 mine, 1 ours). She split on my child and has put her through unbelievable emotional abuse since middle school. There were many reasons why I did not realize how bad it was but I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up to my daughter for not protecting her more. I have sole legal and physical custody because my daughter's biological mother actually had full-on BPD and was placed on supervised parenting time until the completion of a psych eval. Instead, she bailed on her 5-year-old child in 2010 and my daughter hasn't seen her since.

Years ago I became concerned about how my current wife was disciplining my daughter (due to what I was experiencing with my wife as a grown-ass man going off on me and having a hard time dealing with it). But I never in a million years thought that it would be BPD because lightning just doesn't strike twice, right? I told her that she was not allowed to discipline her and to let me handle it. From there forward she has treated my daughter like she was evil.

A month ago, she kicked my bio daughter out of the house the night before I was leaving for an overseas business trip to Vietnam right as my daughter had to leave for college in the Netherlands. I left my wife that night, got my daughter out and over to a friend's house to take care of her while I was gone, and swore I would never come back to the marriage.

While I as gone my spouse had a heartfelt conversation with my daughter and there was a lot of healing. My daughter for once thought she was going to be able to gain the loving mother she saw all her siblings have. I don't trust it one bit. The tyrant has already shown up and told me that she will never forgive me for leaving the way I did and the fact that I was perfectly fine doing it.

I have been separated now for 2 months and tomorrow I will be telling her I want a divorce. She doesn't know that I think she is a high-functioning BPD. I don't know if I should say anything about it at all but she is going to want to know why I can't stay and work on things. She is desperate to keep me with her and has taken the last 3 weeks off work. I just can't bear the thought of staying and I am determined to go but she will drill me for answers. Any time I have addressed her behavior before it has triggered the tyrant to show up. For the past year , I have been trying to get her to see the damage she has done and continues to do to her relationship with our kids. She just rages.

Having the talk tomorrow but just not sure if I should come up with a bullPLEASE READ answer or call out BPD so that she understands and could potentially seek help for herself more quickly. She thinks I am the issue of course.

I am just sitting here mourning the wife I love and am losing due to the tyrant I hate and cannot live with anymore.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

[AKnightInTheMaking]

I have been married to my spouse for 16 years. 90% of my life with her has been wonderful but 10% has been absolute hell. So much so, that she has destroyed our marriage. This summer I realized she is a high-functioning BPD. Her biological son told me a year ago that he has to think of her as 2 people; one is his mother whom he loves and has to forgive, and the other is a tyrant.

We have 5 kids (3 hers, 1 mine, 1 ours). She split on my child and has put her through unbelievable emotional abuse since middle school. There were many reasons why I did not realize how bad it was but I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up to my daughter for not protecting her more. I have sole legal and physical custody because my daughter's biological mother actually had full-on BPD and was placed on supervised parenting time until the completion of a psych eval. Instead, she bailed on her 5-year-old child in 2010 and my daughter hasn't seen her since.

Years ago I became concerned about how my current wife was disciplining my daughter (due to what I was experiencing with my wife as a grown-ass man going off on me and having a hard time dealing with it). But I never in a million years thought that it would be BPD because lightning just doesn't strike twice, right? I told her that she was not allowed to discipline her and to let me handle it. From there forward she has treated my daughter like she was evil.

A month ago, she kicked my bio daughter out of the house the night before I was leaving for an overseas business trip to Vietnam right as my daughter had to leave for college in the Netherlands. I left my wife that night, got my daughter out and over to a friend's house to take care of her while I was gone, and swore I would never come back to the marriage.

While I as gone my spouse had a heartfelt conversation with my daughter and there was a lot of healing. My daughter for once thought she was going to be able to gain the loving mother she saw all her siblings have. I don't trust it one bit. The tyrant has already shown up and told me that she will never forgive me for leaving the way I did and the fact that I was perfectly fine doing it.

I have been separated now for 2 months and tomorrow I will be telling her I want a divorce. She doesn't know that I think she is a high-functioning BPD. I don't know if I should say anything about it at all but she is going to want to know why I can't stay and work on things. She is desperate to keep me with her and has taken the last 3 weeks off work. I just can't bear the thought of staying and I am determined to go but she will drill me for answers. Any time I have addressed her behavior before it has triggered the tyrant to show up. For the past year , I have been trying to get her to see the damage she has done and continues to do to her relationship with our kids. She just rages.

Having the talk tomorrow but just not sure if I should come up with a bullPLEASE READ answer or call out BPD so that she understands and could potentially seek help for herself more quickly. She thinks I am the issue of course.

I am just sitting here mourning the wife I love and am losing due to the tyrant I hate and cannot live with anymore.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

[eightdays]

I worried about how to explain it too.   I didn't think that my opinions would be helpful at all, and that she needed to find her own way.   So I never explained the reasons and focused on myself,   and left it at 'this hasn't working for me'.   My wife came up with her own (incorrect) explanations.   She has never asked what was going on for me, or why, and we don't communicate much anymore.

[ForeverDad]

I predict it won't go well tomorrow.  When dealing with pwBPD often the first reaction is an overreaction.  She's been nicer lately because she senses something looming with the separation.  Once you deliver the News it's possible she will do the unimaginable to sabotage you.

To what extent have you planned out Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc?  Just telling her you "want" a divorce likely will not be received well.  Have you chosen an experienced lawyer or solicitor and chosen practical strategies?  Do you have the paperwork ready to submit?

I ask because when a marriage such as our sort fails, you can't survive on hopium and expecting normal acceptance and negotiation.  What if your spouse decides to retaliate and sabotage, such as claiming DV or child abuse?  Many here were caught unprepared and forced to "play defense".  Sure, such claims are usually sorted out and determined "unsubstantiated" but if you can avoid it, then so much the better - and the divorce much less expensive.

Both my ex and I had involved religious backgrounds but once we separated she spent the next few years making repeated child abuse insinuations and allegations.  It was crushing, I never imagined it would get so nasty but it did.

[EyesUp]

"Don't JADE" is right at the top of the playbook.

Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain

The situation you rightly anticipate invites all of the above.

How to do it without doing, well, any or all of it?

Strongly encourage you to follow FD's advice and plan as much as possible before sharing the news.

In my case, I had it all planned out and I went ahead and filed.  The variable that I didn't anticipate was how long it might take the court to process the complaint for divorce and for my then wife to be served.  While I waited for an update from my atty, my then wife perceived a change...  amazingly, she filed and her complaint was received first.  This turned out be a good thing - she perceived some high ground, and the expected rejection/abandonment dynamic was taken off the board.  I never felt the need to inform her that I had already filed...

If you decide to take more time to plan, perhaps you will get lucky and your stbx will file first.  It would give her agency, a sense of control.  That might be the best thing you can give her - although this is far from a recommended strategy - I came to it through sheer luck.

No matter how you decide to proceed, take steps to ensure that you and your kids will be safe:  Deliver the message in a public place and consider keeping a voice recorder going anytime you're in your wife's presence - this is to protect yourself against false allegations later.  Have any valuables safely stored - anything that remains at the marital residence can/will become hers by default once the separation is formalized by filing for divorce.  In fact, if you can make any changes to joint accounts in advance of filing, do it - once you file, you'll be under financial restraining orders - which means that she'll retain access to whatever accounts or funds she presently has access to.  Now might be the time to quietly close or lock a shared credit card, for example.

How have you managed parenting time with your shared child since the separation?  This is something else you might want to consider before dropping the news.

Finally, this probably isn't good advice, so I only offer it as food for thought:   You might try to avoid the discussion about "why" by focusing instead on "the offer" - granted, some BPDs will not be able to see the forest through the trees, but...  if you have stipulations ready to go to outline the nuts and bolts of the divorce, you might be able to get her to give the pragmatic aspects some attention vs. going into a fully emotional response mode.  This is wildly optimistic, but it might serve you well as proceedings get under way - you can set the starting line for whatever needs to be negotiated, and potentially demonstrate to the judge (if it gets that far) that you are fair and reasonable.

If nothing else, thinking this through in advance may pay a dividend - literally - in both the financial and emotional taxes that inevitably come due in a divorce.

Keep in mind that this person will remain your co-parent forever, so it's worth exploring how to do this in a way that doesn't invite a scorched earth response and allows both of you to move forward with some ability to communicate - if only for the benefit of your kid.

Long story short:  Advice here is usually to avoid telling a suspected BPD that they have BPD.  Also, "don't JADE".

Hang in there.

[ParentingThruIt]

the book Splitting is really good. It might be worth listening to it on audible (8 hours) before you tell her about your plans. It might also make sense to find and connect with a lawyer before you tell your ex your plans.

I think documenting the situation with the kids as much as possible would be good. Write it down in broad strokes. I found it helpful to use text messages as reference docs to pull out details and refer to any major events such as when she threw your daughter out.

Protection for your daughter seems paramount here, as well as psychological and financial protection for yourself so you can continue to parent.

Good luck and I'm sorry this happened to you (again).

[PeteWitsend]

...

Having the talk tomorrow but just not sure if I should come up with a bullPLEASE READ answer or call out BPD so that she understands and could potentially seek help for herself more quickly. She thinks I am the issue of course.

...

I'd give you the same advice that I write whenever I read a post like "How do I get my BPD wife/husband to agree to a divorce?"

You don't. 

Take them out of the equation and do what you need to do.  They're not "agreement capable;" you can't discuss serious things with them like you would a reasonable (non-disordered) adult.  All you'll see is an endless stream of excuses, blaming, pleading, etc.  They can very easily go from anger at you for wanting a divorce, to crying/sobbing "how could you do this to me?  I loved you" stories a second later, to baseless promises to get better and go to therapy (which they have no intention of doing).  I went through all this twice: once a year before we actually got divorced, and again when we actually did.  The first time, as soon as she felt like the danger of divorce had passed, she was "re-writing history" to make the whole episode about "me being too emotional" and denying she had anything to do with it, or that she agreed to get help.  Don't be tempted to believe anything they say in times like this: the time to save the marriage passed already; if she was willing to, she could've spent this period of separation making an effort. 

Figure out what you (and your biological kids) need, and go do that.  The marriage is ending.  Her needs are no longer part of your consideration or responsibility.  Any concession to her only comes at your and your kids' expense. 

Remember: anything you say CAN be used against you in court! 

In my case, BPDxw kept prodding me to admit I had someone else (I didn't), saying she just wanted to hear me say this to make her feel better about it, and just wanted to know.  I never responded. 

[ForeverDad]

... you can set the starting line for whatever needs to be negotiated, and potentially demonstrate to the judge (if it gets that far) that you are fair and reasonable.

A sad reality... Our wonderful inclination of "fairness" has to take a back seat, so to speak.  Why?  Because it can expose us to sabotage without much of an upside.

For example, courts do appreciate "reasonable" stances, to an extent.  That is an ethical requirement for us as reasonably normal persons.  However, court also will let your stbEx do almost anything that is unreasonable and underhanded and not blink an eye.  Conclusion:  It make take a while for court to determine who is truly reasonable or unreasonable.  It also may come down hard on you sometimes - even when you're in the right - in an attempt not to appear partial.  (An appearance of partiality could expose the court to appeals.)

What is the risk of "fairness" - an otherwise admirable trait?

• You might divulge too much information (TMI) such as legal strategies and goals.
• Your effort at fairness could give your stbEx time and knowledge to devise ways to sabotage you... false DV and child abuse claims come to mind.

[ParentingThruIt]

I think Pete put it really really well. This is process you are initiating and she will not like it. You need to do what you have to do and protect yourself. You cannot try to take care of her in this process. You have to take care of yourself and your kids first. It's hard.

[try2heal]

In my case, BPDxw kept prodding me to admit I had someone else (I didn't), saying she just wanted to hear me say this to make her feel better about it, and just wanted to know.  I never responded. 

OMG the number of times uBPDxbf has said something like "If you've found someone else, that's fine, I will understand and move on" is absolutely astounding.
Also, to whoever wrote "hopium" thank you.

[PeteWitsend]

to add:

Decide on what you and your kids need, and Don't let concern over what the pwBPD might do change your course of action.

Don't expect that if you extend an olive branch (so to speak) it will be received that way, or your efforts will be reciprocated.

You could behave like an absolute angel during the divorce process and the pwBPD will STILL go around telling everyone you're an absolute scoundrel who stole from them, hid money, alienated the kids, etc.  So again, focus on your and your kids' needs and go get that as best you can.  Let the pwBPD stew in their own juices. 

In communications with then, don't let them bait you into arguments.  Follow the BIFF method (Brief Informative Friendly Firm).

So for example when you get "When are you picking our kid up?  You better stop telling them I am a bad mom, and you better not be late again.  And stop feeding them junk food.  Last time they complained they ate nothing but McDonald's.  It's too bad they have such a selfish father!"

You respond: "Thanks for your email.  I'll be there at the 6:00 PM for pickup, as provided in our temporary custody orders."

And trust me... if/when any third party reads this stuff, you'll come out looking like the sane one.

[AKnightInTheMaking]

So, I met with uQuiet BPD at a local nature preserve and we sat at a picnic table and talked. I immediately told her that I did not have good news for her. She had written a letter to me and gave it to me a couple days ago encouraging me to work with her on the relationship. It took her aback that she knew I was going to ask for a divorce. But she held her composure, asked for a few minutes to get her emotions under control and then continued to talk with me.

I have to say I was expecting the Tyrant to show up. It didn't. There were a lot of questions and a little pleading for me to reconsider but in the end she settled into the fact of what was going to happen. All this calmness was not what I was expecting and it really made me doubt myself in what I was thinking about her.  How could this possibly be BPD? She then asked me if I still thought she had BPD. So she must have heard from our closest friends that that is what I was thinking. We only have 2 couples that are in our closest circle and I talked to both of the men recently because this was coming. I have stayed away from our friends because I have my family as well as my entrepreneurs' organization guys to support me. She really has very few that she considers close.

So when she asked if I still thought she had BPD it sent my mind racing a little bit but I couldn't help but think all this extreme control of her emotions was meant to show me that she couldn't possibly have it. They way she talked sounded like she was pitying me. She mentioned that my BPD exwife must have really screwed me up. I simply agreed with her and told her that I didn't know if she had BPD or not, that it was between her and her therapist, and that it was something that checked a lot of boxes with me in what I have experienced with her.

I tried to talk about an amicable divorce and potentially going through one attorney. She said she had to protect herself. Said that I had been so cruel to her over the past month. This was really confusing because we have only spoken through email and only about 2 emails a week at most. All I can think is that the lack of communication and separation is triggering abandonment. I don't know but I encouraged her to try to find a way for the kids sake.

I started a business in 2011 when I lost my job and it has become very successful. So much so, that the value of the company will exceed all of our assets but it is struggling heavily right now. I am probably going to come out of this losing everything including my retirement. I guess the good news is that I will have more time to try and keep it from failing.

There were many times in the talk where I felt like she was trying to mind-f**k me by shaming me and starting in on how I was red flags from the start. I just tried to let her win and have her say. Hopefully it can make her feel good enough about herself that she will not go scorched earth on me. But I have to prepare for that regardless.  Forever Dad, I remember you from what's becoming decades ago and I really appreciate your thoughts.  I also agree that "hopium" is an excellent term and love having that in my arsenal now.

Thanks all for your support. I don't know if I am dealing with BPD again but it is definitely a mental health issue of some type. She is so high-functioning it has been insidious if it is. She has an IQ of about 140 according to her testing when she was trying to get into a PhD program. She is insanely smart and I'm not a slouch myself but it feels like she blows me away with logic and an elephant's memory. I just held true to the vow I made myself when I left for Vietnam saying I would never return to this marriage no matter what happened.

It sucks because my biological daughter has been talking to her according to our 13 year old and they are repairing things according to her. My wife even suggested my biological daughter join her and the kids for Christmas and then they all come to see me. It kills me to think I am walking away from something that I shouldn't. But some part of me, my gut instinct in all of this, is that it is a colossal charm. I just don't trust it or her. And I keep reminding myself that plenty of people get divorced and married again.

Time will tell.

[CravingPeace]

to add:

Don't expect that if you extend an olive branch (so to speak) it will be received that way, or your efforts will be reciprocated.

You could behave like an absolute angel during the divorce process and the pwBPD will STILL go around telling everyone you're an absolute scoundrel who stole from them, hid money, alienated the kids, etc. 

God this 100%. After she filed a BS protective order against me i got dismissed I have really tried to descalate. Even anawer her questions and givr her advice on the house she had coubtry sherrifs force me out of. A house she has never paid $1 towards. I just wanted to descalate as she ia so disordered and vindictive I thought that was best.

For months I have been patient and kind. Best I can.

Today again more discovery asking me to accept I had affairs, and all this other BS.

It never stops. So now after trying to be nice and fair for months I have no option it seems but to hit back with all my evidence that actually I was not the abuser she was.  And no I don't have millions in passive income! Where do they even get it from. Absolute nuts .

She can admit or deny my requests for admission. But she better be prepared as my requests have evidence behind them if she denies!

[ForeverDad]

I'm glad your meet was calm, not all are.

About family court, often named domestic court... Court deals with the parents as they are, not as we would want them to be.  That would be a good perspective for you too, accept that she is what she is and expecting lasting positive change is unreasonable.  After my two year divorce I was in and out of court for about 6 years.  Only at our last hearing's decision did the magistrate state Mother should have counseling, yet it stopped short of ordering it.

My ex filed numerous allegations with CPS, children's hospital, even the county sheriff's office when she sought to trigger an Amber Alert on me.  I had numerous recording of her rants and rages, especially when she would play games with exchanges.  My court essentially ignored it all, well, once her allegations all were deemed "unsubstantiated".  I so wanted them deemed a stronger "unfounded" but I hear those are quite rare.  So there may be a lot of claims made, just batten down the hatches and weather the storms.

What was crucial for me was remaining a parent.  He was 3 years old when we separated and he was nearly 12 at the last hearing (when I got majority time and that was after I already had obtained legal custody).

I noticed you've made no comments on your goals for custody and parenting time.  Be forewarned that even if joint custody is the norm when exiting divorce, my then-stbEx got my area's usual mother's default preference of custody and majority time in the temp order.  (This was despite her facing a Threat of DV charge in another court.  Apparently a person can have two personas, problematic spouse yet assumed to be a good mother.  Go figure that one out.)

[PeteWitsend]

...

Thanks all for your support. I don't know if I am dealing with BPD again but it is definitely a mental health issue of some type. She is so high-functioning it has been insidious if it is. She has an IQ of about 140 according to her testing when she was trying to get into a PhD program. She is insanely smart and I'm not a slouch myself but it feels like she blows me away with logic and an elephant's memory. I just held true to the vow I made myself when I left for Vietnam saying I would never return to this marriage no matter what happened.

It sucks because my biological daughter has been talking to her according to our 13 year old and they are repairing things according to her. My wife even suggested my biological daughter join her and the kids for Christmas and then they all come to see me. It kills me to think I am walking away from something that I shouldn't. But some part of me, my gut instinct in all of this, is that it is a colossal charm. I just don't trust it or her. And I keep reminding myself that plenty of people get divorced and married again.

Time will tell.

don't let your guard down, no matter how nice she seems in the moment.

you have how many years of her mistreating your daughter (and you when)?  a couple weeks of making nice after she realized she pushed you past your breaking point shouldn't be grounds to reconsider all that.

and your wife may be intelligent, I don't know, but taking an IQ test isn't part of grad school applications (taking the GRE, MCAT,  or LSAT is).  How did she do on one of those very competitive and carefully graded exams?

You really need to question everything a pwBPD tells you, unless you know it for sure, especially if there's an "angle" to it.  And convincing you now that she's all well and good because divorce isn't only being discussed but you started taking steps in that direction is a pretty big angle...

Also, does your wife work? 

[PeteWitsend]

when I finally moved out and filed for divorce, BPDxw went from anger and insults toward me, to nice texts acting like she understood all this was happening and was only sad about it, to finally begging me to come back,  claiming she'd go to counseling again, and let me talk and wouldn't interrupt or argue (as if that was the problem).

 I later heard from a couple different people that around this time she was at a kid's bday party with our daughter, telling people that I "stole" money from her, & she was asking me to get back together just because she didn't want to spend more money on divorce lawyers but didn't love me.  Nice.

By this point in time, I was past caring about her feelings or concerns, so whether she was sad about the divorce didn't matter to me.  It just served as a reminder to take anything she said with a grain of salt.

[ParentingThruIt]

One my confidants reminds me that my ex is on an emotional rollercoaster. There are moments when he's more lucid and regulated and available. But the ups and downs always come back. And that's the problem. The kinder, more lucid moments do not prove that everything is okay.

We need to look at the trends over time. Another confidant reminds me that without big effort over time on his part, it's not reasonable to expect big changes.

Big positive changes over a long period of time would be more compelling. Anything short term now, especially as she processes this huge change, is more like little daily ups and downs in a stock than its long term reliable value.

[AKnightInTheMaking]

and your wife may be intelligent, I don't know, but taking an IQ test isn't part of grad school applications (taking the GRE, MCAT,  or LSAT is).  How did she do on one of those very competitive and carefully graded exams?

You really need to question everything a pwBPD tells you, unless you know it for sure, especially if there's an "angle" to it.  And convincing you now that she's all well and good because divorce isn't only being discussed but you started taking steps in that direction is a pretty big angle...

Also, does your wife work? 

Yes, I believe it was the GRE and did extremely well. Her scores were equivalent to 140 IQ. My IQ score is 132 and she does trounce me at times.

It is taking me a little while to process the hour long conversation we had. What is really sticking out to me is when she suddenly asked me if I still thought she was BPD. When I said yes and that it made sense of my experiences with her, she became very haughty, very pitying of me and began demeaning me. She said that I was red-flags from the start and that my BPD ex-wife really did a number on me. I just agreed with her and didn't take the bait.

That behavior, and the fact that she still defends asking my D19 to leave the home, let's me know the Tyrant is very much there and under a lot of restraint. I know I am making the right choice but really struggling with the loss of the woman that I love and care so deeply for.

I take my D13 to see a therapist today. I have written an email to the therapist explaining my concerns that my wife is pwuQuietBPD and that I would like her to help D13 with boundaries. I would like D13 to have a healthy relationship with her mother as long as she is safe. Hopefully the therapist will take my concerns seriously.

Wife is a CPA and does work as a corporate controller. She is on her third week of leave so she must be using some type of Family Medical Leave Act time or something special with her work because she only gets 3 weeks of time off a year. We already spent a week in the UK this summer so she is beyond her time.

[ForeverDad]

... when she suddenly asked me if I still thought she was BPD. When I said yes and that it made sense of my experiences with her, she became very haughty, very pitying of me and began demeaning me. She said that I was red-flags from the start...

I view that as Blame Shifting, manipulating the conversation so you are cast as worse than her.  My ex did that too, I recall she purposely did it right after the police left after I had called emergency services.

I would like D13 to have a healthy relationship with her mother as long as she is safe.

As counterintuitive as this sounds when first mentioned, ending the adult relationship in these scenarios enables the child to have healthier perspectives.  The child can then see the difference between father's behavior and mother's behavior and be better able to discern between what is healthy vs unhealthy, normal vs abnormal, functional vs dysfunctional.  It would also give the child time away in a stable and safe home - at least part of the time - away from the chaos and manipulation.

Here is only a partial quote from this post, please follow the link for more detail.  Your daughters need you and your normalcy bias more than you may think.

Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that...