Halloween: She almost fought an 11 year old

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hey, folks. Been meaning to check in again - I almost posted earlier today before the episode I'm about to describe occurred. Now, I just need to get this off my chest before I go to sleep for the night. I feel just plain awful about this one.

So my uBPDgf and I took our two daughters (11 and 6) trick or treating around the neighborhood. Things were going fine for the most part - the usual complaining and moments of randomly snapping at some little thing before acting normal again - what else is new?

The turning point came when uBPDgf's friend came by to drop off her daughters and a couple other of our daughters' mutual friends so that all the kids could trick or treat together. This amounted to four additional kids. One boy we weren't familiar with and I could instantly tell that uBPDgf was treating him differently. We walked the next block over from our house, where we had rendezvoused with them, and by the time we reached the second house, uBPDgf was already yelling at the kid. There was a big party spanning a few houses across the street from us with tons of people outside, lawn decorations, etc. The kid went to cross the street and uBPDgf started yelling at him that he can't just go off on his own and that he needs to stay with everyone. A fair point, but the delivery was harsh--especially for a kid we had just met.

At the next house, the kid was at the front of the group and opened the screen door in order to knock on the front door proper. Again, uBPDgf yelled at him from the side walk that he can't just open up people's doors. At this point, apparently the kid said something like, "That lady is annoying." My daughters and their other friend reported this back to uBPDgf and at this uBPDgf snapped. She started going back and forth with the kid as if she was back on the schoolyard herself. I didn't catch every word, but from what I heard the kid was on the defensive saying stuff like, "I didn't mean it." This only infuriated uBPDgf more. She called her friend who had dropped him off with us and started talking loudly over the phone about how disrespectful the boy was and that she needs to come pick him up. We waited about 5 minutes or so for uBPDgf's friend to arrive. When she did, she took uBPDgf's side and yelled at the kid. This in turn triggered her daughter (our daughters' good friend) who also has difficulty regulating her emotions, but has come along way with counseling. She screamed at my younger daughter that she hates her and that the boy was her friend.

Here's the twist. Once the young boy was driven off (along with our daughters' friend who had gotten upset over this), my older daughter (11) and her other friend revealed that this was a boy who they had mentioned to us previously. Both of his parents died and he is currently in a foster home. He apparently has a reputation for talking back and is probably what one would label "at risk" these days. uBPDgf yelled at D11 after hearing this, "Why didn't you mention that? A little context would be nice!" After this, uBPDgf immediately went back to justifying her behavior. We wrapped up the trick or treating a few minutes later and uBPDgf spent the next hour or so talking about how horrible this boy was with her friend who had dropped him off (and subsequently returned to grab the rest of the kids she had dropped off to us).

I feel like garbage over this incident. As the boy and uBPDgf were going back and forth, I felt powerless, knowing that any interjection on my part would only enrage her further. I tried a couple of times to cut in and say stuff like, "He's just a kid." I honestly don't even know if the words came out I'm so spineless at this point. And perhaps the kid promptly being picked up and getting away from uBPDgf was for the best. But was it? The kid lasted all of five minutes trick or treating with us. We literally only knocked on two or three houses. And yeah, maybe he did lack good manners and etiquette, but I feel like that's what we as adults are supposed to teach kids like him--not stoop to their level. And the things he did leading up to the verbal showdown--prematurely crossing the street, opening a screen door--honestly aren't anything that our own daughters haven't done in the past.

Now, this will be yet another incident in this kid's already pretty tragic life that will instill in his mind that other people don't understand him and don't accept him. Even D11, who doesn't particularly like the boy, wasn't happy about the situation. She told me that she has basically every class with him and now it's going to be awkward. I briefly talked with D11 and her friend, who is also in classes with the boy, that what happened was really unfortunate and should have been handled better. I said that they should do their best to be nice to the boy even if he's annoying. As for tonight, the damage has been done I suppose.

I went into this Halloween saying that this would be the last one that I'd be together with uBPDgf. Just gotta get through the holidays and then I plan to start making some serious moves. If what happened earlier is any indication, we will not be going so gentle into that good night.

[Dry Bones]

Hey, folks. Been meaning to check in again - I almost posted earlier today before the episode I'm about to describe occurred. Now, I just need to get this off my chest before I go to sleep for the night. I feel just plain awful about this one.

So my uBPDgf and I took our two daughters (11 and 6) trick or treating around the neighborhood. Things were going fine for the most part - the usual complaining and moments of randomly snapping at some little thing before acting normal again - what else is new?

The turning point came when uBPDgf's friend came by to drop off her daughters and a couple other of our daughters' mutual friends so that all the kids could trick or treat together. This amounted to four additional kids. One boy we weren't familiar with and I could instantly tell that uBPDgf was treating him differently. We walked the next block over from our house, where we had rendezvoused with them, and by the time we reached the second house, uBPDgf was already yelling at the kid. There was a big party spanning a few houses across the street from us with tons of people outside, lawn decorations, etc. The kid went to cross the street and uBPDgf started yelling at him that he can't just go off on his own and that he needs to stay with everyone. A fair point, but the delivery was harsh--especially for a kid we had just met.

At the next house, the kid was at the front of the group and opened the screen door in order to knock on the front door proper. Again, uBPDgf yelled at him from the side walk that he can't just open up people's doors. At this point, apparently the kid said something like, "That lady is annoying." My daughters and their other friend reported this back to uBPDgf and at this uBPDgf snapped. She started going back and forth with the kid as if she was back on the schoolyard herself. I didn't catch every word, but from what I heard the kid was on the defensive saying stuff like, "I didn't mean it." This only infuriated uBPDgf more. She called her friend who had dropped him off with us and started talking loudly over the phone about how disrespectful the boy was and that she needs to come pick him up. We waited about 5 minutes or so for uBPDgf's friend to arrive. When she did, she took uBPDgf's side and yelled at the kid. This in turn triggered her daughter (our daughters' good friend) who also has difficulty regulating her emotions, but has come along way with counseling. She screamed at my younger daughter that she hates her and that the boy was her friend.

Here's the twist. Once the young boy was driven off (along with our daughters' friend who had gotten upset over this), my older daughter (11) and her other friend revealed that this was a boy who they had mentioned to us previously. Both of his parents died and he is currently in a foster home. He apparently has a reputation for talking back and is probably what one would label "at risk" these days. uBPDgf yelled at D11 after hearing this, "Why didn't you mention that? A little context would be nice!" After this, uBPDgf immediately went back to justifying her behavior. We wrapped up the trick or treating a few minutes later and uBPDgf spent the next hour or so talking about how horrible this boy was with her friend who had dropped him off (and subsequently returned to grab the rest of the kids she had dropped off to us).

I feel like garbage over this incident. As the boy and uBPDgf were going back and forth, I felt powerless, knowing that any interjection on my part would only enrage her further. I tried a couple of times to cut in and say stuff like, "He's just a kid." I honestly don't even know if the words came out I'm so spineless at this point. And perhaps the kid promptly being picked up and getting away from uBPDgf was for the best. But was it? The kid lasted all of five minutes trick or treating with us. We literally only knocked on two or three houses. And yeah, maybe he did lack good manners and etiquette, but I feel like that's what we as adults are supposed to teach kids like him--not stoop to their level. And the things he did leading up to the verbal showdown--prematurely crossing the street, opening a screen door--honestly aren't anything that our own daughters haven't done in the past.

Now, this will be yet another incident in this kid's already pretty tragic life that will instill in his mind that other people don't understand him and don't accept him. Even D11, who doesn't particularly like the boy, wasn't happy about the situation. She told me that she has basically every class with him and now it's going to be awkward. I briefly talked with D11 and her friend, who is also in classes with the boy, that what happened was really unfortunate and should have been handled better. I said that they should do their best to be nice to the boy even if he's annoying. As for tonight, the damage has been done I suppose.

I went into this Halloween saying that this would be the last one that I'd be together with uBPDgf. Just gotta get through the holidays and then I plan to start making some serious moves. If what happened earlier is any indication, we will not be going so gentle into that good night.

[SnailShell]

Man, I’m sorry - that sounds exhausting, and like it must’ve left a really bad taste.

I’ve often thought our partners kind of represent us as a team when they’re out on their own (though I’m single right now, actually) - I wouldn’t want my partner representing us this way.

Hope things are okay today!

That kid can bounce back and be okay, if his environment is now stable and good - it’ll be ‘no harm done’ in the end, I’m sure.

But yeah - I understand the pain of that… sorry to hear it!

[PeteWitsend]

...

I feel like garbage over this incident. As the boy and uBPDgf were going back and forth, I felt powerless, knowing that any interjection on my part would only enrage her further. ...

Well, she put you in a pretty tough situation. 

It's unfortunate as well, because trick-or-treating with kids is a unambiguously happy and easy thing to do.  As a kid, I have only positive memories of it.  It's wild how disordered pwBPD are, that even something as straightforward as "walking around getting free candy" can trigger them into behaving like deranged mental patients. 

But I think you absolutely have to step in sometimes, over something like this, when an adult is picking on a kid, and deal with the fallout. 

If I spoke up and got ignored, I would've physically moved in between them, and said something like "can we talk for a second?" and in your example, I think I would've suggested she just go home and have a glass of wine or cup of tea.  She may have exploded at you, but two things: 1) who better to bear the anger?  you or an 11-year-old kid who's going through about as rough of a childhood as possible?  and 2) you'd be a hero to those kids. 

I don't know why you feel a need to make it through one more round of holidays with this person... the holidays are an absolute nightmare with pwBPD.  Sounds like you and your kids have already suffered enough.  If it's just a timing issue, try to get all your ducks in a row sooner? 

Your whole story is typical of some of the stuff I went through.  I also hesitated to confront BPDxw on occasion, when she was picking fights with other people (typically one of my family members), and I regret it now, although at the time my thought process was that a confrontation was what she wanted, and there was no need to escalate things when time would pass and the situation would quiet down on its own when people left, or we got home.  It did affect my relationship with some of my own family members for a while, and I felt terrible about that, although I later apologized to them for what happened.

We all want to avoid making a scene in public, but sometimes it's unavoidable.  You can always manage the situation a bit by apologizing to people around you who witness the outburst... everyone understands some people are nuts and will sympathize with you & appreciate you acknowledging their presence, while the pwBPD just goes off with no concern for anyone else. 

I tolerated my now-ex fiance for a while when she'd single my D out for discipline, because most of the time, it was kinda warranted.  Maybe predictably it got worse over time, and she started to pick on my D for things that were less troubling, and more just "things kids do" - like singing annoyingly in the car.  Rather than just asking her to be quiet, my ex- started ranting at her, as though she was a juvenile delinquent, so I intervened.  My ex- DID indeed start to escalate the conflict with me, as you feared in your example. although, by this time, I was okay with that, knowing I would rather she fought with me than my 8-year-old. 

And I made sure to remind my D afterward that she didn't do anything wrong, and ex-GF was out-of-line for talking to her that way, and sometimes adults forget their manners too and need to be reminded of it. 

We broke up not long after that incident. 

[CC43]

Wow Dry Bones, that situation is just sad.  Clearly your partner could have cut the kid a little slack--kids naturally get excited on Halloween.  If she felt it was absolutely necessary, she might have addressed the group, without singling out any particular child, that for their own safety it's best to stick close together, because it's dark and drivers might not be able to see them, or state cheerfully that going forward, it's best not to open other people's doors unless invited first; just ring the doorbell or knock, OK?  Of course, the tone of delivery is just as important as the words.

I find that with a loved one with BPD, that her dysregulations don't typically have much to do with the incident at hand.  Typically, she has something else going on in her life--stresses, disappointments, jealousy, feeling guilt about something she did, etc.--that induces in her a trauma-like response to ordinary situations.  I find that the holiday season (starting as early as Halloween) is typically the trickiest and most triggering for pwBPD.  So for example, maybe your partner is feeling overwhelmed at the moment, and her trauma response reflex kicks in when she goes out trick-or-treating.  And clearly, things didn't go the way she expected on the outing, with the addition of a new kid.  I find that when things don't go "her way," even if they seem trivial or inconsequential to us, they can induce the trauma response in my loved one with BPD.  (By trauma response, I mean a fight or flight reaction to ordinary situations).  In the scenario you describe, it seems to me like your partner reacted with a "fight" response, being aggressive, emotional and over-the-top critical in an ordinary situation.  That she was justifying her behavior afterwards is her perverse way of coping with her guilty feelings about behavior.  You see, she probably realized in the back of her mind that she was out of line, so her brain is basically trying to re-cast the events to make her out to be the aggrieved party.  (A victim attitude is pervasive with BPD.)  Of course, she won't apologize--she'll likely ruminate about the incident and twist the events to be painted a victim.  After all, she was the one responsible for so many children, and other kids came without being invited, and they were having too much fun, while she felt overwhelmed and wasn't enjoying herself.  She might have felt that all she ever does is cater to other people, having too much responsibility, and nobody has the courtesy of telling her about the boy's situation, it's all their fault.  On top of that, the kid was being insulting, impudent and argumentative, disrespecting her in front of everyone, how dare he?  Does that sound about right to you?  This is the twisted BPD thinking that takes over when she's emotionally dysregulated, as she can't control her emotions or negative impulses.

I'm not sure how to advise you much further here.  Maybe because the holidays are so stressful (with ruptured routines, increased spending and lots of complicated social interactions which are so tricky with pwBPD), you could try to take things off your partner's plate.  You might say, I'm happy to take the kids out trick-or-treating, so that you get some time to yourself, but you're welcome to come if you like, maybe just at the beginning if that would suit you best?  If you approach it like you're doing it for her sake, then she's less likely to accuse you of trying to leave her out.  And if you give her a choice for an easy out (even if it's fabricated), she might feel like she has more control.

[ForeverDad]

I went into this Halloween saying that this would be the last one that I'd be together with uBPDgf. Just gotta get through the holidays and then I plan to start making some serious moves. If what happened earlier is any indication, we will not be going so gentle into that good night.

While it is going to be difficult the next couple months, starting to plan should not be put off.  Why?  There will never (well, almost never) be a perfect time to end the relationship and continue with co-parenting.

So don't delay overmuch.  Are there some things you can quietly strategize in the meantime?  Have you determined your legal standing for continuing your parenting during the transition and for the years ahead?  Perhaps some quiet legal consultations with lawyers - on a very private and very confidential basis - will outline paths for you to remain very involved in parenting and parenting decisions.

One concept to remember is that if you're trying to repair a relationship with your partner, then of course you share information to rebuild needed trust.  But, on the other hand, if it has become clear that it is failing or has failed then sharing all information is too much information (TMI) and should be limited to needed parenting and regular financial matters.  Thinking "but I'm a fair person and I need to give them fair notice" could be a self-sabotaging approach.

[Dry Bones]

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback and support. I will write a more detailed reply within the next couple of days when I can but I just wanted to get this out there now and express how much I appreciate everyone on this forum.  My daughter who has class with the boy told us yesterday that the boy actually apologized to her for acting the way he did on Halloween. Apparently, he does group therapy and the event was discussed, but I don't know any more than that. So maybe a lesson was learned - I dunno. I still wish things had gone differently (it's nice to wish when it comes to BPD, right?), but at least he and my daughter seem cool for now.