Looking to learn from the experience of others

[MysticOne]

Hello, I have a 46 yr old daughter with every common sign of BPD.  She was originally diagnosed at the age of 13, but has since decided she doesn’t have BPD, and has found a therapist who tells her that maybe she had it when she was a child, but she’s outgrown it. (!!)  She is married to a man with Aspbergers and they have a 12 year old son. 
She lives three hours from me so 90% of our conversations now are phone calls because she has decided that coming to my house is “unsafe” for her – in spite of the fact that she has loved coming to our house for many years.  It feels like manipulation, but she has created a whole world filled with events that didn’t happen or real events have been blown completely out of proportion, elaborated to the point of being unrecognizable. She gets angry when I say I don’t remember such and such happening.
You would think that in this situation I could maintain better boundaries.  I struggle with cutting her off although sometimes I contemplate doing so.  I don’t because she has managed to drive away every person she counted as a friend, plus her father, her sister and brothers, cousins, and in-laws.  Essentially, I am her only contact.  If I cut her off totally would she act on her suicidal ideations?  I don’t want to find out.
I really identified with wannabemom and her son accusing her of things she doesn’t remember ever happening.  My daughter has a list of her favorite ways I’ve wronged her, some of which didn’t happen, and she returns to them again and again. Apologizing has made no difference, my apologies are never sincere enough for her. 
My biggest concern right now is it seems she is getting worse as a BPD.  Since she has never gotten good therapy for BPD and is so alone, is it possible she is truly getting worse?  She can hardly get through a five to ten minute conversation without reverting to telling me how much damage I’ve done and she screams at me more often now when I disagree with her.
She seems to be getting worse, yet I must protect my mental and my physical health.  I’ve had three stress-induced strokes and I work diligently to keep my stress level under control.  She seems to have no ability to care about my stress or recognize that her conversations can cause a great deal of stress for me.
Even after reading some good books on BPD, I still feel like I don’t know how to keep things on track. [/size][/size][/size][/size]

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kells76]

Hi MysticOne, welcome to the group -- really glad you found us.

Wow, things must have been pretty serious for her to have been diagnosed at 13... and, that's a long time for you all to be coping with intense behaviors. Did she or your family get any counseling or therapy back then?

I think you're right that she probably doesn't have the emotional bandwidth to consider your needs right now. If BPD is indeed in play, she can likely barely manage her own needs and feelings day to day. So, when it comes to consideration of your significant medical needs, it's ok for you to take charge there, and not hope she'll maybe be considerate.

I think there might be ways to do that graciously that maintain contact. I'm curious -- when the two of you talk on the phone, are there times when the phone calls go well? Is there usually an amount of time where the conversation goes ok, even if just the first 5 minutes?

My thought is that at some level, you both want the connection (she keeps calling, you don't want to cut her off), but when a call ends in blame and yelling, things have gone too far, and that's not good for either of you.

What would it be like if you ended the call while things were still going well -- took the lead to wrap it up on a positive note? Even if the call is only 5 or 10 minutes, kindly ending it before she dysregulates could be a relief to both of you:

"Oh honey, sorry I have to wrap it up -- have a great rest of your day and we'll chat again soon, bye!"

Curious if taking the lead there could be something to try?

[MysticOne]

I appreciate your comments and ideas, Kells.  Yes, the first five minutes are usually good, and I'm getting better at saying "I've gotta go now."  You're right, neither of us wants to shut the other out entirely, and we keep trying.  Last summer we even tried online counseling with both of us present.  Of course she won't tolerate anyone knowing her actual issue (BPD), and after four sessions she said she was done - she felt like the therapist was targeting her.  I felt bad, because the therapist was simply addressing what she felt was the worst problem....or maybe what would give us the most relief.  I've had years of very successful therapy of my own (not related to daughter's BPD) so I am no doubt more aware of my own issues and how they impact the two of us, and how my issues impacted her as a child.   I just want some peace for her as well as us. 

I'll work on ending the conversation before the disintegration starts.  Thanks!

[CC43]

Hi there,

Wow, you've had it rough dealing with a daughter all these years who remains dysregulated.  I hope I can reassure you that your daughter's revisionist history and her anger at you don't really have to do with you.  It's more likely that she's facing some stresses in her life right now, and she's taking them out on you, probably because you're all she has right now.  Maybe she's having a midlife crisis.  Maybe there are tensions in her marriage or with her child.  Or maybe she's facing mounting financial pressures.

Look, my diagnosed BPD stepdaughter told all sorts of outrageous stories about her terrible childhood.  The older she got, the worse the stories became.  At first I gave her the benefit of the doubt.  But over time, I was able to piece together what was really going on, and what I witnessed was that her outbursts and fabrications would coincide with a stress or disappointment in her adult life.  Rather than deal with the present-day issues, she'd regress and tell stories of various childhood traumas, blaming her family for messing her up.  So now when I hear these stories, I take it as a sign that something else is going on in her life that she just can't handle emotionally.  She has to find an outlet for her anger, disappointment and shame, and so she blames her parents, siblings or even extended family members.  When she was untreated, I think she replayed the ancient traumas in her mind so much that they became etched in her brain.  It was almost like a learned response:  she'd feel stress, and then she'd ruminate about the supposed childhood traumas.  In a way, the more she did this, the more "automatic" the negative thinking pattern became, and the more incredible some of the details became, too.  It didn't help that her parents couldn't stand to see her in such distress, and when she threw a tantrum or went ballistic, they'd give her whatever she wanted, just to get her to stop.  So her negative thinking patterns were reinforced!

Having said all that, it probably doesn't make you feel much better.  Just rest assured, your daughter's thinking is distorted, and you are not to blame.  That your daughter speaks to you at all shows how important you are to her.  I bet she doesn't mean the horrible things she accuses you of--she's just blaming you as a coping mechanism, because taking responsibility for her issues is too painful for her to bear alone.  Take her stories/lies as an indication that she's really stressed out right now.  You might focus more on the feelings she is conveying, rather than her highly-distorted facts.  Maybe she felt alienated, or scared, or incompetent, or ignored, or unloved--which is likely reflecting how she still feels today.  She's probably very needy, and she's saying her needs remain unmet.  But it could be that she's very confused about what her real needs are, as she's an emotional mess.  You might feel sorry for her.

If you are able to have some good conversations, then that is big positive.  I'd concur with the other poster--try to keep things short, so you can exit the conversation on a high note.  A simple "I've got to go" should be enough.  It may be that if you sound upbeat, she's triggered by your happiness, because she feels pathetic by comparison.  Maybe you tone down the emotional content at your end of the conversation, and avoid topics that could make her feel envious.  Another trick I use is what I call the "three strikes" rule.  If the conversation turns sour, I'll say something like, "This is stressing me out, let's change the topic please."  If she continues (which is likely, because negative thought patterns are etched in her brain), I'll say, "This is stressing me out, if you continue I'll have to hang up."  And if she ignores my request once again, I'll say, "Sorry, I'm hanging up. Bye now."  If you do this a few times, she might learn to avoid the toxic topics.  And it's OK if she doesn't learn, because you extract yourself from the conversation before it gets too heated.  She remains in control--she can choose to change the topic, or she chooses to end the conversation.  Fair enough?