Daughter

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Our 11 year old Daughter is constantly getting picked on by my wife. She has gotten to the point she threatens to kill herself to stop it. I try to separate them when I can, but I am not home all the time. Our Daughter is in therapy. What else can I do?

[needsleep87]

Our 11 year old Daughter is constantly getting picked on by my wife. She has gotten to the point she threatens to kill herself to stop it. I try to separate them when I can, but I am not home all the time. Our Daughter is in therapy. What else can I do?

[Pook075]

Our 11 year old Daughter is constantly getting picked on by my wife. She has gotten to the point she threatens to kill herself to stop it. I try to separate them when I can, but I am not home all the time. Our Daughter is in therapy. What else can I do?

Hello and welcome to the forums!  I'm so sorry you're in this situation and it certainly doesn't sound like it's a healthy environment.  You've come to the right place though since you're now family.

First, a few questions.  Is your wife diagnosed with BPD?  Or is it suspected with her or the daughter?

Second, what is the nature of the constant picking?  Is your wife being completely unfair or does your daughter carry some of the responsibility as well?  How in-depth have you discussed this with your wife?

Also, how is your relationship with your daughter?  Are things fairly normal when it's just the two of you?

Without knowing more, I'd start by separating the mom and the kid after school- maybe an after-school program or have her stay with a friend/relative until you get home? 

[PeteWitsend]

Our 11 year old Daughter is constantly getting picked on by my wife. She has gotten to the point she threatens to kill herself to stop it. I try to separate them when I can, but I am not home all the time. Our Daughter is in therapy. What else can I do?

If your wife won't stop it, separate from your wife?  You have to do what you must to protect your kids.  As a parent, they come first, even at the expense of your spouse, when they put you in this situation.

[ForeverDad]

It is so good your daughter has a therapist.  Another resource your daughter can have is her school counselors, though their support may be limited.  But the more professionals involved, the better.

While we can't tell you whether to separate or not - that's for you to ponder all factors and make your own informed decision - the reality of the continued poor behavior does merit appropriate measures to limit the children's exposure to a dysfunctional and unhealthy environment.

However, that said, most of the members here who are in relationships with persons with strong acting-out BPD traits (pwBPD) have found that the Denial, Blaming, Blame Shifting, and worse did not stop and the only practical alternative remaining was to separate and seek legal confirmation of their parenting rights.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."

Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

An excellent guide to assist you through the legal quagmire of a divorce is William Eddy's excellent handbook "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder".  It is a great complement to the local resources such as counselors and family law attorneys, not to mention the peer support here.

[Tangled mangled]

As a daughter who was picked on and is still constantly criticised by her parents, my advice would be to help your daughter develop better self esteem.

Take her aside for a dad and daughter time out and have a chat with her. My son is 10 and I know from experience that girls are more mature than boys at a similar age.
If I was dealing with this I would emphasise great aspects about your daughter- tell her she’s beautiful and that it’s okay to make mistakes. Give her a chance to talk, it’s very important that she doesn’t internalise the criticism.

The preteen and teenage years will be incredibly difficult for her as she will be both a friend and a foe to her bpd mother. The bpd has no mercy on teenage years.

At around 15/16 years, I remember my mum telling me that she had a dream that I stormed out and ended my life. She was aware of the pressure and stress she was putting on me but instead of addressing it, that was used against me as she said I was always angry and bitter. I was her caretaker and maid and babysitter, at thesame time trying to excel in school.
I’m still paying the price for the damage they caused me in my childhood.

Protect your children at all costs and you will never regret it.

[Notwendy]

This post feels so sad.

During my teen years, my BPD mother blamed me for issues between us and also for the issues between my parents. I actually believed this.

When I went to college, I thought it would resolve my mother's issues and that she and my father would be happy. This wasn't true, it didn't resolve her BPD issues but as a child/teen- we believe what our parents tell us.

I would take your D's statements seriously. I think she wants to live but  she probably feels you and your wife are better off without her. What options does she have at 11? She can't go and live on her own. She can't go off to college. So she thought of this very tragic and unthinkable option.

It's good that you have gotten her to a counselor but in addition, she needs to know she's loved and cherished by at least one parent and that parent is you. What can you do to help her know that?

What can you do to protect her from her mother's behavior?

[GaGrl]

Middle school was the time my husband's ex-wife (uBPD/NPD) began treating their daughter harshly -- criticizing her, pushing her into activities that didn't suit her, restricting her. My stepdaughter is a shy introvert. Her mother tried to push her into cheerleading and pageants -- anathema to a shy girl -- and criticized and had anger her for resisting. SD got no validation for areas in which she excelled -- academics, band/orchestra, karate.

It's so important for a girl that age to develop self-esteem for who she is, for her own strengths and accomplishments. You, as her father, can help her develop that.

You might also consult her therapist about how to help your daughter develop boundaries that are appropriate for her age. What does she say or do when her mother picks on her? Walking away might antagonize her mother ("Don't walk away when I'm talking to you!!"), but your daughter should have a voice when she is hurt by her mother's words.

[ForeverDad]

Another thought often described here is that some BPD mothers (diagnosed, undiagnosed, or just displaying those traits) can care for young children since the children are dependent upon them, changing diapers, feeding them, clothing them, etc.

However, when the children grow older they naturally seek gradually increasing independence.  That's a normal process.  The Borderline parent often can't adapt to that natural growth and change.  In a way, they have to control or feel controlled, dominate or feel dominated.

If this is the case in your household, then your task is to change the dynamic.

(1) There's real risk your younger children will face this as well, though currently it is your older daughter who is the focus as a "whipping boy", the substitute target.  Having regular heart-to-hearts with your daughter is important so that your support is always fresh in her mind.  Kids need those reminders because the bad times can become overwhelming.  Once or twice is not enough, be there every time when needed.

(2) If you decide the only option left is to separate/divorce, this takes planning and strategizing.  (This is where you do NOT share sensitive information and strategies - TMI - with your spouse or else you risk enabling your spouse to sabotage your parenting efforts.)  If you're unprepared or caught off guard by events, you may not be able to secure as much parental authority and parenting time as possible.

[Notwendy]

Are there ways to get your daughter out of the house for times. I think it really helped us to be able to spend time with my father's family, also summer camps, school activities- this gave us a chance to have space from the conflicts and also be with other caring adults and role models.

If what you wish to do is to fix this for your D and her mother- you can't turn this into something harmonious if it's not. What was possible was scaring me into compliance but that isn't the foundation of a relationship. Also saying things like "your mother loves you" when she's being abusive sends the confusing message that abuse is OK.

Not that I didn't try- to be "good enough" for my mother. I wanted her to love me. All kids want their parents' love and approval. So I became a people pleaser and walked on eggshells- on one hand to try to gain her approval but also my father's.

Why is the olders daughter a potential "target"? As FD stated, young children are compliant. Older children and teens strive for autonomy. We also begin to question/threaten, the illusion that is maintained in the house- BPD mother is "normal" - nothing to see here. But we have been over at friend's houses and seen their mothers and something is different with ours even if we don't know what, so we think it's us if being blamed but also aren't so sure.

All teens to some extent will aggravate their parents at one point. I raised teens and could recognize this stage. Teens still need boundaries. When a parent doesn't have good emotional regulation skills, parenting a teen can be challenging. What happened with me, which felt confusing, is that there were rules and boundaries for me, but not for BPD mother- who did act out, rage, and do things I knew not to do. Yet, I had to obey her?

It's easy to parentify the older child. We are useful. One way my BPD mother gets her emotional needs met is to have people do things for her- not always because she can't do them, it's an emotional need. A teen age girl can do a lot of thing around the house. I think it's fine to have teens do household chores but in addition, I became an emotional caretaker, confidant, and this is not OK for a teen.

Your D will oppose this because nobody wants to be subdued into submission, (that is a boundary)  but she can be scared into doing it. I was scared. We grew up scared of my mother. That gets compliant kids. It isn't a foundation for love.

I do think you can enforce respectful behavior from your D. Even though our relationship is a difficult one, there's a level of behavior that is ethical towards a parent. But sometimes, to maintain this behavior on my part, I have to also have some boundaries, to avoid drama and circular conversations.

What resulted for us kids is entirely different relationships with each parent, even though my parents stayed together. My BPD mother is seriously affected with BPD. That limits her ability to have relationships with anyone. At some point- your D is young- the topic of mental illness will need to come up- better from a counselor than you.

It may be best that these two have some time apart- if your D can go to sleep away camps, or visit relatives during school breaks and eventually college. There's a difference between knowing your parents love you and want to help you to achieve your goals at college and feeling rejected and blamed. Your relationship with your D can make that difference for her. She's not ready to go off on her own to college but you can encourage her and prepare her for that if she has academic interests, or career or trade school if those are her interests. Show an interest in her interest. This can be difficult when there's relationship drama but show up- for sports, for music, for whatever she's into.

Don't assume the younger children are safe because they aren't the target scapegoat. The "all good" child can also become enmeshed and feel responsible for their mother's feelings. Be vigilant about the needs of all the children.