ExwBPD - Munchausen, threats, manipulation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Good afternoon all,

First post here. This situation is incredibly complex and I'm sure it will all come out eventually on here.

I am at the end of my rope with trying to handle this ex, with whom I have two young daughters. I am currently in a very healthy relationship, and my children and my partner all get along very well. Currently, my exwBPD is trying to become a nurse - I believe, in order to continue to diagnose my children. She tells every doctor that we see that she is a medical professional or a "medical person" in order to try to garner favor with them, however, she commonly "misdiagnoses" or misidentifies common childhood or woman-specific medical issues.

My exwBPD has always tried to make it seem like the two children have a multitude of medical issues. I believe between the two of them there have been 15+ ER visits, and just in the last two months of dealing with made up asthma and made up yeast infections, there have been 10+ GP visits. Obviously, I am growing exhausted of playing the long game of letting the doctors see and document and eventually realize that she is concocting imaginary scenarios so that she can get some kind of attention.

These ER visits are also most likely to occur around holidays or significant dates. For example: on Valentine's Day 2024, my exwBPD called me absolutely FRANTIC telling me that my youngest had fallen and that "her teeth are sticking out of the front of her lip". I was at work and obviously agreed to meet them at the ER immediately. I told her that I would arrive at the ER, park, and then meet them to get my oldest and park the car while they went to triage. Due to the amount of false alarms or no-need ER visits we've had before, I always expect that the child is actually fine, but am never willing to take a chance on them actually being hurt so I always treat the situation as if it is severe until proven otherwise. At the hospital, I see them drive up, and both of my children are in their car seats, neither in distress. The youngest has no signs of injury, especially as described to me over the phone. I immediately have to control my feelings, and will let the doctor decide what the severity of the injury may be upon examination. So my ex and youngest go inside and I park her car and walk in with the oldest. The youngest (who the visit was for) was in no distress, and after triage, was not rushed to a room. Eventually, after waiting our turn, we are called back and a doctor examines her, finding no issues and recommending we follow up with a dentist to ensure there is no unseen problems.

This is just an example of the MULTITUDE of times that she has done something like this. Most recently, we've been on an "asthma" roller coaster that started when I went on a trip (my first real "time off" in the last four years since I exited the military and this divorce). While my current partner and I were gone, I received a multitude of communications that the children were wheezing, low pulse ox, asthmatic. She took them to urgent care, the ER, and their GP twice in a five day span while I was away. She then pursued aggressively trying to diagnose them with asthma, and went on for three months (about 7-8 GP visits, one ER visit) trying to get a diagnosis for asthma. There are many other issues, including her obsession with "yeasty vaginas" (that neither one of them have, again documented by their GP).

My musings recently have been - when do I act more aggressively on this? I am obviously documenting all interactions, keeping my own records, and attending all GP and ER visits, as well as keeping up with their online charts (which from her communication I believe she doesn't realize I have access to those). When do I stop laying low and playing the game and when do I act more aggressively to stop this behavior? I am tired of my children being obsessed with being sick, with having problems or booboos or their stomachs hurting or being afraid to use the bathroom.

Help.

[strangestthings]

Good afternoon all,

First post here. This situation is incredibly complex and I'm sure it will all come out eventually on here.

I am at the end of my rope with trying to handle this ex, with whom I have two young daughters. I am currently in a very healthy relationship, and my children and my partner all get along very well. Currently, my exwBPD is trying to become a nurse - I believe, in order to continue to diagnose my children. She tells every doctor that we see that she is a medical professional or a "medical person" in order to try to garner favor with them, however, she commonly "misdiagnoses" or misidentifies common childhood or woman-specific medical issues.

My exwBPD has always tried to make it seem like the two children have a multitude of medical issues. I believe between the two of them there have been 15+ ER visits, and just in the last two months of dealing with made up asthma and made up yeast infections, there have been 10+ GP visits. Obviously, I am growing exhausted of playing the long game of letting the doctors see and document and eventually realize that she is concocting imaginary scenarios so that she can get some kind of attention.

These ER visits are also most likely to occur around holidays or significant dates. For example: on Valentine's Day 2024, my exwBPD called me absolutely FRANTIC telling me that my youngest had fallen and that "her teeth are sticking out of the front of her lip". I was at work and obviously agreed to meet them at the ER immediately. I told her that I would arrive at the ER, park, and then meet them to get my oldest and park the car while they went to triage. Due to the amount of false alarms or no-need ER visits we've had before, I always expect that the child is actually fine, but am never willing to take a chance on them actually being hurt so I always treat the situation as if it is severe until proven otherwise. At the hospital, I see them drive up, and both of my children are in their car seats, neither in distress. The youngest has no signs of injury, especially as described to me over the phone. I immediately have to control my feelings, and will let the doctor decide what the severity of the injury may be upon examination. So my ex and youngest go inside and I park her car and walk in with the oldest. The youngest (who the visit was for) was in no distress, and after triage, was not rushed to a room. Eventually, after waiting our turn, we are called back and a doctor examines her, finding no issues and recommending we follow up with a dentist to ensure there is no unseen problems.

This is just an example of the MULTITUDE of times that she has done something like this. Most recently, we've been on an "asthma" roller coaster that started when I went on a trip (my first real "time off" in the last four years since I exited the military and this divorce). While my current partner and I were gone, I received a multitude of communications that the children were wheezing, low pulse ox, asthmatic. She took them to urgent care, the ER, and their GP twice in a five day span while I was away. She then pursued aggressively trying to diagnose them with asthma, and went on for three months (about 7-8 GP visits, one ER visit) trying to get a diagnosis for asthma. There are many other issues, including her obsession with "yeasty vaginas" (that neither one of them have, again documented by their GP).

My musings recently have been - when do I act more aggressively on this? I am obviously documenting all interactions, keeping my own records, and attending all GP and ER visits, as well as keeping up with their online charts (which from her communication I believe she doesn't realize I have access to those). When do I stop laying low and playing the game and when do I act more aggressively to stop this behavior? I am tired of my children being obsessed with being sick, with having problems or booboos or their stomachs hurting or being afraid to use the bathroom.

Help.

[strangestthings]

Another fun aspect of recent developments - since my ex has to be made aware of my current relationship due to us having 50/50 custody of the children, she has begun to copy her affect, her dress, her style. For years, my ex wore mainly jeans, t shirts, gym shorts, occassionally wearing something more if going out but generally low maintenance, low effort. Since she met my current partner (who is nowhere near a "diva" but cares for her appearance, picks out outfits for the day, does her own nails, wears her hair up) she has begun to mirror her overwhelmingly. Literally has bought the same brand that they discussed when they met, wears similar shoes, has begun to get her nails done (which she never did before) and wears her hair up in a clip (which she never did before). It's honestly befuddling, astounding, and scary.

[kells76]

Hi strangestthings and

Complex situations with threats, manipulation, induced fear in the kids, and major frustration are our bread and butter here -- you're in good company. BPD relationships are so challenging especially when you want to care about and protect your kids in the middle of everything.

Couple of questions to get a better feel for your situation right now.

How old are the kids? Are they in public/private school or homeschooled?

Custody/parenting time: do you have an official plan filed with the court, or is this all by unofficial agreement? Does 50/50 mean legal custody (decision making), physical custody (how the kids split time), or both? I.e., 50/50 can mean that each parent is an equal decision maker but the kids spend more time with one parent. Or, 50/50 can mean that one parent is legally "tiebreaker" but the parenting time split is even.

Is there any requirement to use a parent communication app (Talking Parents etc)?

Sounds like the divorce has been final for 4 years -- am I tracking with you that that is when she really ramped up her behavior?

Are the kids resisting or refusing time with either parent? What's the transition setup (at school, at parents' houses, at daycare...?)

If you used a lawyer during the divorce, do you still have your L's contact info?

...

Something I've learned over the years [this'll be my 10th year here, 13th year coping with my husband's kids' mom (uBPD) and stepdad (uNPD)] is that while there's always some kind of cost for caring for the kids in a BPD family environment, sometimes the cost is very worth it.

For example, you may need to connect with a lawyer to understand if the documentation you have rises to an actionable level. It sucks to pay legal fees but the cost could be well worth it if it ensures your kids' future well being.

In our situation, long story short we have purchased the following for the kids to have at Mom's house: fire extinguishers, non-frayed extension cords, flea treatments, smoke detectors, and bags of groceries. Additionally, even though "technically" H and Mom should be splitting driving 50/50, the kids disclosed that Stepdad is not a safe driver. So, we do 100% of the driving to pick up and drop off the kids for H's parenting time.

It's a big cost -- and it's worth it. It "shouldn't" be that way, but we have to deal with what is, not how it should be.

The kids are taken care of and they know who did it.

Anyway -- there will likely be "costs" of some sort to resolve this issue for your kids' benefit. Whether it's legal fees, or your time/energy, or something else, you will be paying, and it can be very worth it.

...

Keep us posted on the details... we'll be here;

kells76

[strangestthings]

Couple of questions to get a better feel for your situation right now.

How old are the kids? Are they in public/private school or homeschooled?

Custody/parenting time: do you have an official plan filed with the court, or is this all by unofficial agreement? Does 50/50 mean legal custody (decision making), physical custody (how the kids split time), or both? I.e., 50/50 can mean that each parent is an equal decision maker but the kids spend more time with one parent. Or, 50/50 can mean that one parent is legally "tiebreaker" but the parenting time split is even.

Is there any requirement to use a parent communication app (Talking Parents etc)?

Sounds like the divorce has been final for 4 years -- am I tracking with you that that is when she really ramped up her behavior?

Are the kids resisting or refusing time with either parent? What's the transition setup (at school, at parents' houses, at daycare...?)

If you used a lawyer during the divorce, do you still have your L's contact info?

kells76

Great questions. I understand my initial post was a bit disorganized, but so are my thoughts right now. Thank you for the welcome.

The children are 4 and 2. They are currently in daycare Monday - Friday.

Physical custody is 50/50 by our divorce agreement. We obviously have the freedom to adjust as needed. Currently I work in office Monday - Friday so she takes them to daycare on her way to nursing school. Legal custody (decision making) is unfortunately shared, with her being the tiebreaker. I will give more details on this.

There is no requirement to use a parenting app. I requested her to engage with one but she did not comply, and there was no court order to use one.

The divorce has been final for 11 months. She has not ramped up her behavior, it has been at this high level for the whole relationship, which, amongst many other aspects of a BPD relationship, were reasons for the divorce, as I did it to try to provide the children with at least one parent who was whole, instead of both of us being tortured inside the relationship.

I did not use a lawyer during the divorce. At the time, I was unable to afford one but held my own in our negotiations as we both discussed the layout of the decree in front of her lawyer. Somewhat of an aside, I had everything prepared (as far as documentation) to file without using a lawyer, to which my ex had agreed to do - and then two months later she informed me she had gotten her own lawyer. Rookie mistakes on my part.

Hopefully this helps the discussion. There is so. much. here. that it is hard for me to choose which part to discuss or which egg to crack first.

[kells76]

I understand my initial post was a bit disorganized, but so are my thoughts right now. Thank you for the welcome.

No worries. These are incredibly stressful situations. Getting your thoughts "on paper" here and getting feedback from the group can help you regulate and organize and prioritize to be as effective as possible.

The children are 4 and 2. They are currently in daycare Monday - Friday.

Physical custody is 50/50 by our divorce agreement. We obviously have the freedom to adjust as needed. Currently I work in office Monday - Friday so she takes them to daycare on her way to nursing school. Legal custody (decision making) is unfortunately shared, with her being the tiebreaker. I will give more details on this.

OK, good to know they are getting time outside the house with peers and supervision.

Has there been any conflict around pickup or dropoff? For your times with the kids, do you pick them up directly from daycare?

Are you guys alternating weekends right now? Any conflict or complaint by her about that?

What's interesting to me is that many moms try to "hoard" the parenting time all to themselves, and unless I'm missing something, which is possible, it sounds like she's not trying to outright impede your parenting time? I.e. she hasn't done the "the kids told me they don't want to be with you" move? Not that the medical stuff is nothing  just interesting how her dysregulation is showing up.

There is no requirement to use a parenting app. I requested her to engage with one but she did not comply, and there was no court order to use one.

My H and his kids' mom don't use one either and honestly that hasn't been the "make or break" issue. Things would not be better with an app. So, not necessarily a big deal that you guys don't have one.

Is your communication mostly email? text? call? in person? other?

The divorce has been final for 11 months. She has not ramped up her behavior, it has been at this high level for the whole relationship, which, amongst many other aspects of a BPD relationship, were reasons for the divorce, as I did it to try to provide the children with at least one parent who was whole, instead of both of us being tortured inside the relationship.

OK, that's interesting. Am I following that basically from the time each kid was born, she was getting weird medically about them?

I did not use a lawyer during the divorce. At the time, I was unable to afford one but held my own in our negotiations as we both discussed the layout of the decree in front of her lawyer. Somewhat of an aside, I had everything prepared (as far as documentation) to file without using a lawyer, to which my ex had agreed to do - and then two months later she informed me she had gotten her own lawyer. Rookie mistakes on my part.

We've all had a lot to learn; you're not alone. Boilerplate coparenting approaches, collaborative divorce, "get along for the kids' sake" stuff is often pretty ineffective when BPD is involved. When we know better, we do better, and we did the best we could at the time.

Couple of thoughts about steps forward.

One is to figure out the terminology for a free meeting with a lawyer. In some areas it's an "initial consultation", in other areas it might be an "interview". Basically, you can occasionally chat with a L for free about your situation, and you can do this with as many L's as you want. Would strongly recommend looking into that. Sometimes you do have to pay for the "consultation" or "interview" but without having to retain the lawyer. Even if that is as far as you go -- interviewing ~3 L's in your area, describing your situation, and asking if it's actionable -- that will give you a dose of reality for understanding your next steps. I.e., if all the L's you talk to are like "sorry dude, that really sucks, and here you can't action on any of it", then you know to come up with a different approach. Or, if all 3 are like "you already have more than enough info for an almost airtight change of circumstances for medical tiebreaker", then yeah, that's also info you use to make a decision.

If you don't pursue legal advice, I'd recommend researching what constitutes "change of circumstances" in your area.

I'd also consider investigating play therapy for the kids. Therapists are mandatory reporters no matter what state you're in and that could be a benefit in your circumstances.

At minimum, even if you don't put the kids into play therapy, you are allowed to meet with child therapists on your own, without your kids there (we've done that). You can describe your concerns and ask what the therapist would suggest or recommend. Getting professional feedback can be really important for figuring out what avenues are actually open to you.

In our case, Mom has full custody (at the time, H thought it meant "parenting time" only -- he worked full time so thought he wouldn't be able to do "joint custody" which he thought meant 50/50 parenting time) which means she is tiebreaker on everything. That has impacted the approaches we have taken when caring about the kids. Not all avenues have been open to H but he has found a way to work with things as they are.

Hopefully this helps the discussion. There is so. much. here. that it is hard for me to choose which part to discuss or which egg to crack first.

I really get it. When BPD is in a family system, it can be difficult for other family members, even without BPD, to think straight and prioritize.

Finding ways to manage your own emotions and regulate yourself will be huge. The best way to help your kids is to help yourself first -- get yourself at an emotional baseline so that your thinking and feeling are balanced, and maintain or build your support system (family, friends, therapist/counselor, religious/spiritual community, hobby community, coworkers, etc).

Not easy stuff -- definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

[ForeverDad]

The suggestion to start counseling with play therapy, at least for the oldest, is a great idea.  My child wasn't quite 4 years old when his mother enrolled him in children's therapy, which continued until he was nearly 12 years old.  Of course, her purpose was not to seek help but to make me appear bad.

Another approach can be to contact children's services and - hypothetically or not - ask whether excessive doctor visits with no outcomes is actionable.

Be aware that doctors, though mandated reporters of abuse, may not see excessive doctor and emergency visits as clear abuse.

My ex took our son to the Children's ER multiple times.  I don't recall the number exactly, but I usually went to the medical records office just before a hearing to determine if there were any more visits.

Once and only ONCE the ER doc called me and I said, "Thank you for being the first doctor to notify father that son was there."  The reply was, "No, I'm only calling to ask what drugs you gave your son."  They were just homeopathic pills to aid concentration, an issue with him in his early school years.  I had explained it to my ex earlier in the day but she thought it was basis for another ER visit downtown.  Anything to make me look worse than her.  Doc was fine with my answer.  The ER is for emergencies or sudden incidents, they only deal with the medical issues and only make referrals if necessary.  Maybe they'd call the pediatrician, depends.

Whether all these doctor visits may be considered to rise to the level of being actionable, such as to change you to having decision making for medical/mental health issues, hard to say.  But it is worth investigating since you are right to be concerned for your children's excessive doctor visits.

In recent years Munchausen's has been renamed Factitious Disorder, whatever that means.

[Tangled mangled]

In addition to what others have mentioned, I suggest curtailing communication with the ex eg limiting it to emails only.

Not long ago, I posted about a similar situation with my ex. My divorce is not yet finalised and my children are older. The munchausen by proxy - my ex too favours frequent ER visits and I’ve raised this issue with my son’s GP. The advice was to pick my battles and that too much antibiotics won’t hurt.

With the advice I received here, I also noticed it’s an attention seeking tactic to gain attention and “care” not for my son but for his dad. My younger son has a condition that flares up due to stress and despite my ex fretting about his health, his condition seems to worsen whenever he visits dad.

Recently my ex paid privately to see a medical consultant and while he was at the appointment he video called me through an app so that I could use my medical knowledge to help him out during the appointment ( I’m a medic).
My take from this is that he hyped things up to get everyone around especially those closest to fit in their “ assigned roles “.

I regretted engaging in the video call even though it’s for my son’s benefit. The following day, he tried to leverage on my support by requesting I send him money for fuel to drop off the children. I have full custody and he gets visitation over holidays.

From what you have described it seems your ex is using these ER visits to fulfill her own needs for attention and “care”. It’s also to show off her presumed ability as a better parent.

Her mirroring your ex is very sickening to say the least.

[Tangled mangled]

* her mirroring your partner *

[strangestthings]

No worries. These are incredibly stressful situations. Getting your thoughts "on paper" here and getting feedback from the group can help you regulate and organize and prioritize to be as effective as possible.

Not easy stuff -- definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

There has been occasional conflict around swaps. When we were first nailing down the details of the divorce, she was adamant that she needed more time with them because of her “maternal instincts”, and that I as a father wasn’t as equipped to handle and take care of the children, which I of course would not stand for and pushed back on. Our current set up, per our settlement agreement, is Thursday night – Sunday night with me every week, with us moving to alternating full weeks once they are both of school age.
Her method of attempting the “kids need to be with me” has been through concocting the non-existent medical issues. She often makes a doctor’s appointment the next day after my time with them to say they have a yeast infection, they have asthma, they have diarrhea, they have constipation, etc etc etc. All of the doctor notes CONSISTENTLY state that the kids present well and undisturbed but “mother reports that x occurred when not here”. I had a talk with the kids’ doctor and let them know (cryptically) that there have been a LOT of doctor visits and ER visits and that I would like to be a part of the conversation. The doctor since then has been MUCH more inquisitive.
Our communication is mostly over text and I screenshot all conversations or comments that I feel are pertinent.
She has been weird about medical stuff with the kids since they were born. Literally from 3 months on we have been going to the doctor or to the ER. She worked at a pediatric doctors office previously so she was always taking the child in there to just “make sure” and then there were lots of ER visits on top of that. Since we have divorced, this trend has continued and in some way increased. It’s definitely gotten more unhinged.
I appreciate the idea of play therapy. I had not heard of this option before, so I will begin investigating.

[strangestthings]

From what you have described it seems your ex is using these ER visits to fulfill her own needs for attention and “care”. It’s also to show off her presumed ability as a better parent.

Her mirroring your ex is very sickening to say the least.

THIS is what kills me about this situation. It seems like her only desire in life is to FORCE people to see what a gReAt MoThEr she is while she consistently makes decisions and ideates things that are blatantly wrong, dumb, or outright harmful. It is so cringey to see her go into a medical providers office, attempt to speak in verbose terms about these perceived medical conditions, only to make glaring missteps and the provider to become either confused or to gloss over out of what I can only assume is embarrassment.

The mirroring has NEVER stopped. It took about a year into the relationship for me to realize what it was (my fault, I know). She has either attempted to mirror her mother (where I think this whole thing stems from), my mother, people at work, my sister, one of my old friends from high school, and now, my current partner.

[ForeverDad]

I wonder how you managed to get all weekends.  Surely there are times she wishes some weekend time with the kids?

Any time you "trade" time with her it is necessary for you to either get the trade documented in writing, text or email, or else you need to get the traded time first.  We here learned the hard way that letting the disordered/entitled ex have traded time first could end up with us not getting our traded time.

My divorce's Custody Evaluator was a child psychologist.  Post-divorce I was going to start equal time per the settlement agreement terms.  He recommended a 2-2-3 schedule (or 2-2-5-5 over two weeks) which meant one parent had Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent had Wed-Thu overnights and they alternated Fri-Sun weekend overnights.

When I said I preferred weekly exchanges because most of our conflict was at exchanges, my CE stopped me, he said children up to the age of 10 years do better with frequent exchanges.  Then my lawyer chimed in, "Do you want the court to think that your kids will do better with less frequent parenting time, that you're okay with your ex's parenting pattern for longer times?"