What just happened…. again?

[Parents! Get help here!]

My grown daughter was over and said she would leave early (before dinner).  The next day she was very cold and obviously angry.  When I asked her if she wanted to talk about what was bothering her, she said ‘no, I’m never heard, so there is no point’.  I left, and then got texts showing me examples of how I don’t hear her all the way back to her childhood…. This pattern happens over and over.  She may not speak to me for up to a couple of months.  I never know if I should text her, let her tell me how horrible I’ve been, or whatever she needs to get over this mood…. I really don’t want to hear how I’ve let her down so thoroughly…. She sounds so convincing- I sometimes feel like the worst mother ever.

[Soo-zee Q]

My grown daughter was over and said she would leave early (before dinner).  The next day she was very cold and obviously angry.  When I asked her if she wanted to talk about what was bothering her, she said ‘no, I’m never heard, so there is no point’.  I left, and then got texts showing me examples of how I don’t hear her all the way back to her childhood…. This pattern happens over and over.  She may not speak to me for up to a couple of months.  I never know if I should text her, let her tell me how horrible I’ve been, or whatever she needs to get over this mood…. I really don’t want to hear how I’ve let her down so thoroughly…. She sounds so convincing- I sometimes feel like the worst mother ever.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[BPDstinks]

I am so sorry to hear this....it is an AWFUL situation!  My 24 y/o pw/BPD (daughter) was diagnosed with BPD 4 years ago, despite so many attempts to help her, she said I was enabling her (doing what she asked, sigh) fast forward, she cut her me, her father, sister & young nieces off, she texts me sometimes (if she needs something or rarely to thank me for something (I mail her holiday card/gift card); I have not physically seen me daughter almost 3 years   our last, in person, conversation) she said I was the problem (like you, she referenced things for her childhood) (like you, I replayed YEARS and truly do not understand) I do not have a solution, just to say, I DO hope things improve for you.  I found a therapist who specializes in parents of people with BPD and it is helping...

[Notwendy]

I really don’t want to hear how I’ve let her down so thoroughly…. She sounds so convincing- I sometimes feel like the worst mother ever.

That is understandable. Nobody wants to hear how they've hurt someone when they didn't intend to or don't know what they did.

Your post interests me because a counselor mentioned "not being heard" as we were discussing my BPD mother. Since I have been curious about my BPD mother's family, your post stood out to me because, even though I don't have BPD and they don't have BPD either, I don't feel "heard" around them and it's a curious thing.

You aren't a bad parent and neither are they. They are good intentioned people. In fact, if I said to them "I don't feel heard" they'd be shocked and upset as they have no idea. It's that they didn't seem to have good validating skills, maybe because someone didn't validate them growing up and this is their "normal" in their family.

What is going on here? I think it has to do with family systems and how families manage emotions, and within each family, that is their normal. It doesn't create BPD. They did nothing wrong, neither did you. So what happened with my mother? I think she was somehow more vulnerable emotionally- genetically and in this situation, she didn't feel heard and it felt traumatic to her but didn't feel that way to other people in the family.

And with me? I could do better at "hearing" people too, because it's actually a skill people can learn to do better. It's got nothing to do with being a bad or good parent. I think we learn these skills in our families of origin and that becomes our "normal".

On this board are validation tools. How to validate emotions but also don't validate what isn't true. These are skills that all of us can improve on in any relationship. For pwBPD they are very sensitive to any sense of invalidation, even if unintended.

So, for example, your D says to you "you are a pink elephant". You know that isn't true. But if you defend yourself and say "I am not a pink elephant" that feels invalidating to them. If you agree that you are one, you are validating the invalid, and not being honest. If you react with hurt feelings "I can't believe you called me that after all I have done for you" you are adding to the emotional drama.

So what do you say? "I understand you feel that way" and let that sit with them. If something isn't true, you don't need to defend it. It wouldn't help to tell her you aren't an elephant. You know that and she does too. It's just that in the moment she felt you are one.

It took me a while to actually "hear" my mother because what she said was difficult to hear, but by substituting something like pink elephant for her accusations, I could be less emotionally reactive.

I recall one time she was having some work done on her basement. I had just had some work done in my bathroom and forgot to cover the closet shelves and had construction dust to clean up. So I mentioned to her to cover a bookcase so she wouldn't have a clean up mess.

It triggered her. "How dare you tell me to climb up a bookcase" and I realized that how she heard it was as a put down as if she didn't know to do that, or that I was ordering her to do something. Previously, I would have gotten my feelings hurt. I only tried to help. But she didn't see it that way.

That I "heard" her didn't make what she thought I said true, I didn't say what she thought I said but it didn't matter in the moment, it was true for her. It did change how I responded to her. I didn't defend it. I said "Ok, I hear you and I understand this feels like I said that".

Your "hearing" skills are just fine for most people but somehow they aren't fitting your D and since you want a relationship for her, it may take some learning. Read the tools on validation, SET, and JADE on this board. They help in all relationships, not just with BPD.

So how not to answer your D when she says "I'm never heard" (note the never or always statements- they are absolute- black and white thinking). Don't say "that's not true, I listened to you last week" . Don't address the numerous examples of what you supposedly are accused of doing. Reply with a "I am sorry you feel this way. I'd like you to feel heard by me so I hope you will tell me what you need me to do so that you do feel heard. Hope to see you soon" and then let it go. If she goes on with "you did this when I was three" - repeat. "I am sorry you feel that I did that" and let it go. Get off the phone if it's too much and if it's texts, just let that go. 

Hope this helps.

You also don't have to listen to hours of tirades or verbal abuse. If it gets to be too much, just calmly excuse yourself from the conversation.



 

[BPDstinks]

I love that advice!  When my pwBPD spoke to me, I finally caught on to the JADE (cannot say it helped, however, it worked for ME, so I could control MY emotion; one time, we were at dinner (she requested going to dinner) we were chatting, with my other daughter, also; out of the clear blue, pwBPD said, can you please just stop talking (my first thought was...."bite me"; I said, "I am sorry if I am bothering you, however, I am being social); I excused myself and went to wait outside (I have my own mental health issues and it makes me very anxious when pwBPD does that)

[CC43]

The next day she was very cold and obviously angry.  When I asked her if she wanted to talk about what was bothering her, she said ‘no, I’m never heard, so there is no point’.  I left, and then got texts showing me examples of how I don’t hear her all the way back to her childhood….

Hi there, my take is that your daughter was likely irritated about something else in her life, but when you asked about her sour mood, she didn’t want to tell you what was really going on—maybe out of shame—and instead she deflects, blaming you. I think dredging up ancient incidents from childhood is classic deflection. It’s almost like she’s regressing, as she can’t easily cope with adult issues. I saw this pattern over and over again with my untreated BPD stepdaughter. Indeed she said we just didn’t understand, but when she tried to explain, she wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense. Even her therapist reported that she’d get unhinged and dredge up all sorts of unrelated incidents from childhood and then have a breakdown.

I think if after you try to speak with her, she’s being petulant and irritated, you let her. Give her an adult time out. She’s just venting her frustrations out on you. I wouldn’t take it personally. If she’s going in circles and you need a break, say something like, Gotta go now, I’ll call back tomorrow. Give her that time out, and don’t interrupt it.  You’ve got this.