Peace, love and crisis

[SoVeryConfused]

Hi all,

I've been doing the Family Connections class. It's been good - no skills training yet, but great background and fellowship with other parents and loved ones. Through that and just a lot of prayer, I found myself in a peaceful bubble yesterday. As you know, I'm painted all black (have been for months) and get a lot of verbal abuse. I am getting better at boundaries and cutting off those calls. I was feeling soft and kind and genuinely okay yesterday when she asked for something we have here. I said I would bring it to her 2 hours away. She said she would not see me. I was like, fine - thinking maybe I can put a positive deposit in our relationship bank.

This child also had an item here of hers that broke. Feeling magnanimous, my H and I bought a new one for her and had it shipped. But then, after a bad conversation with dad, child was like - I don't want anything from you. Come get it. I can't look at it. Get it out right now. We said - do with it what you want or ship it back.

Silly me - feeling kind and wanting to show love, I said yesterday I'll grab that item when I drop off the other requested item. Again, hoping a nice gesture would unlock something.

Became a PLEASE READ show as I halfway expected. Lots of calls while in her city, driving and trying to find my way. Turn around. Don't. Come get it. Bring it back. Etc. I eventually picked up the item from her alley and started driving home. Immediate calls within blocks - I want the item. Changed my mind. I felt like a puppet being yanked around. Stayed calm - I'm not coming back. I'm headed home. We'll talk tomorrow.

She's calling. Begging me to pull over so we can exchange the item she just left in her alley. I finally said, enough. I'm not talking anymore tonight. I'm tired and I've been driving for hours. And work today. And I stopped answering calls.

All in all, I was like - well, I tried. It didn't work but I had the capacity yesterday to try and did.

Today? 100 calls - literally starting at 8 am. Hundreds of texts. Shut the F up. Begging me to meet her now and return the item she could not stand to look at 24 hours earlier.

I said no, I would no longer talk to her, as we were hurting each other. We'll try again later.
And if she wants the item, she can drive here to get it.
The final 10 texts were just help, help, help. I have not responded.  I don't have a question - this is just the only place I can vent since my husband is out of town for work, and I don't have anyone else I trust with these details.

I realize I deluded myself into thinking if I do A, it may lead to B. Validation does not work. Gray rock kind of does. We have no regulated times.  I know I made a crazy miscalculation yesterday.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PearlsBefore]

Family Connections was absolutely amazing; I mean I don't tend to lean towards Martha Linehan's style and CBT/DBT very closely preferring some of the older authors and professionals on the subject who were...more blunt, but just being able to sip stale coffee and talk to ACTUAL peers who understand what it means to shove a finger down a loved one's throat to make them vomit pills, or choosing not to call 9-1-1 today because "this" suicide attempt seemed trite and staged and not worth waking up the Fire Department, or the PTSD from years of coming home and if you don't hear immediate signs of life imagining the worst.

Since you mention you're religious, I'll also point you to Thomas Merton's letter to Jim Forest which had been a lodestar in my life - dealing with loved ones and other ingrates, . Sadly Forest passed away a couple years ago.

And then this: do not depend on the hope of results.

When you are doing the sort of work you have taken on, essentially an apostolic work, you may have to face the fact that your work will be apparently worthless and even achieve no result at all, if not perhaps results opposite to what you expect.

As you get used to this idea you start more and more to concentrate not on the results but on the value, the rightness, the truth of the work itself.

[PearlsBefore]

Two seconds after I hit reply, but there's no "Edit" button

Marsha, not Martha.

[Notwendy]

I think you did well- she said come get the object. You came and got it. So what's the issue?

Actions have consequences- and so, this was the boundary- "if you say you don't want the object I bought and ask me to come take something back, then, I took it back"

Another one might be-

"If you don't want me to send you anything, I won't"

If I sent my BPD mother a gift, I had no idea if she'd like it or not, keep it, or throw it away.

My boundary with this was that- if I sent her something, I had to not be invested in how she reacted. Also, I didn't send something that was expensive so if she threw it away, I wouldn't be upset. I mostly sent items like food gifts, and flowers for birthdays and holidays.

Here's an idea about what may have happened with your D. We tend to think logically about objects. But for BPD mother- the object was a means of emotional attachment, or control, or a connection- somehow if we showed interest in something she owned- there'd be some sort of emotional strings to it. Sometimes she'd destroy personal belongings when she was angry at that person. For her, the object was her way of getting an emotional need met- connected by us doing what she wanted- and what that was didn't always make sense.

One example of this behavior is her saying she wanted to "downsize". She complained to me that she had some of my belongings in her basement and wanted them gone. So I took them and on the way to my car, she ran after me yelling that I was taking her things and to give them back. Or she'd offer to give us something and if we accepted, she'd change her mind and take it back. Eventually we decided to not accept or show interest in her items- and once we had that boundary she was irritated when we did that too.

After my father passed away, BPD mother refused to let me have anything of his that was sentimental to me. She would sometimes say "come and get this" and if I did come- she'd change her mind. During visits, she'd ask me if I wanted to look through her things and let her know if there's anything I want. The most obvious reason could be- as long as she had something I wanted, she had some control over me coming to visit. If she gave it to me, she'd lose that control. I tried to make visits only about her- to disconnect the idea that I'd come for the object- so I refused to look through her things and say "I am here to see you, not to get something". Logically you'd think that would be reassuring to someone- to know the visit was because I cared about her, not to get anything from her, but I think she wanted to feel in control.

The better news is that BPD wasn't known in my mother's younger years. There was no Family Connections or other ways to learn to help someone with BPD like you have now. You are learning to change the dynamics with your BPD child- for a better outcome. You also know that when you do this- there's an extinction burst before your child adjusts to new behaviors. I think this is what happened. You held your boundary- and she reacted- but the holding your boundary while she reacted is a success on your part.

[CC43]

Hi there,

My BPD stepdaughter would do the same sort of thing you describe, especially concerning gifts and demanding that they be taken back.  Sometimes she'd try to enlist the support of a third party to reject the gift:  "Take this present back to mom, I don't want it," etc.  Once she asked her brother to return a gift, and his response was awesome:  he refused to get in the middle of it.

In reading your posts though, I can't help but wonder if she actually has an issue with the gift, or if she simply enjoys bossing you around.  I suspect your daughter likes the feeling of controlling your actions, and she likely thinks that she's exacting retribution, in the form of punishment.  Anyway, the bossiness really comes through, and I'm willing to bet that she NEVER thanks you, let alone do something for you in return.  Maybe it's her perverse way of commanding your attention, and she's trying to hold it for as long as possible, by changing her mind and increasing the temperature every time you show signs that you've had enough.

So I guess my advice is, try not to act like her slave.  If she asks you to do something that she could do for herself, I think you decline to do it from the outset.  If she doesn't like a gift, she can put it away, throw it away, return it or donate it.  I agree with Notwendy that if your daughter isn't treating you well, if you feel you must send her gifts, only send ones that you are prepared for her to throw away, and then you won't feel so bad.  If you decide to send money, be prepared for your daughter to project ill intent, and for her to think that you are trying to buy her.  Moreover, I think that if your daughter wants to see you, she should come to YOU.  That way, if she doesn't show up (and my hunch is that she will stand you up most of the time), you won't have expended the time, money and effort to travel.  Only if she establishes proper visitation etiquette (calling ahead, arriving reasonably on time, providing notice in the event of a cancellation, being gracious) would you consider travelling to her.  Look, you wouldn't let anyone else boss you around like that, and I think you shouldn't let your daughter do that, either.  You could be teaching her that it's OK to treat others that way.  In addition, she could be learning helplessness, especially if you're doing things for her that she should be doing for herself.  That's not a lesson you want to be teaching her, is it?

Look, I have been stood up by my BPD stepdaughter countless times, even when she was treated for BPD and relatively stable.  At first, I was angered when she was a no-show, because I had made preparations for her visit, bought/prepared extra food, re-arranged my schedule, and sometimes travelled to her desired location to facilitate a visit, and on top of that, I thought she was incredibly rude for making me and my husband wait, sometimes for hours, wondering if she was ever going to show up, as she wouldn't respond to calls or texts.  So guess what?  I don't do that anymore.  If she comes to visit, fine, but she comes to me, and I'm not changing my schedule or making any special plans for her.  She still treats visits like I'm a free hotel service, but I'm not as upset because, frankly, I'm neither surprised nor angry when she doesn't show up.  If it's a holiday, I might buy gifts for her (I try to be fair and buy all the stepchildren gifts of approximately equal value), but she has to show up to receive them.  If she doesn't show up, fine, I'll set the gift aside and maybe give it to her on her birthday later, if she shows up.  But I'm not mailing her the gift, because she won't acknowledge receiving one or even say thanks.  I'd add that when she does stand me up, I'm usually grateful, because it typically means she's in a bad mood and/or avoiding a problem in her life.  If she's in a sour mood, it's best not to have it infect the entire household.  Make sense?

I think most of the responses on this thread were spot on:

If you don't want me to send anything, I won't.
If you want this item, feel free to come pick it up.
If you don't like the item I gave you, do with it as you please.

That way, she makes the choice, and she remains in control.  You live your life and aren't exhausted driving around in circles.  If she texts/calls incessantly while being negative/whiny/abusive, just turn off your phone for the day and try again the next day, and repeat until she has calmed down.  If she's in a true crisis, you can offer to call 911 for her, and she can decide whether her crisis merits that response.

[SoVeryConfused]

Hi,
Gosh, you guys get it. I do think this is about control, and NotWendy, thank you for the story of your mom. That's super interesting. I kept saying - it's just a sewing machine... It's not us. But now that you've shared about your mom, this is exactly it. There must be an emotional connection somehow. And a means of control.

She does not say thank you for anything, and in fact, doubles down on the fact that we owe her this or that.

She called my husband while he was out of town to complain that I just drove off with her sewing machine and wouldn't return it. I actually laughed out loud. Yeah - I drove 4 hours after work to steal a sewing machine left in the alley for me. When I don't know how to sew. ha

CC - I went into this drive to her feeling peaceful, pretty much expecting the outcome that I got. I was calm and peaceful and felt love toward her in that moment. So I'm okay that I did the drive. It confirmed, no matter what, she's not willing to repair, and would rather boss and control. It allowed me to hold my boundaries yesterday despite 100+ calls and texts (which I stopped taking), which was a win!

What you describe is what I'm working toward - surrendering outcomes and finding peace no matter what she's doing or saying. Rolling with things and still living my life with joy.

PearlsBefore, thank you for pointing me to the letter. I'm going to look for it right now. It's beautifully written, what you shared. Thank you!

[SoVeryConfused]

PearlsBefore... would you mind sharing some of the older resources you like? I have a number of books, but would welcome others you found to be more direct.  Thank you!!

[Notwendy]

And then this: do not depend on the hope of results.

When you are doing the sort of work you have taken on, essentially an apostolic work, you may have to face the fact that your work will be apparently worthless and even achieve no result at all, if not perhaps results opposite to what you expect.

As you get used to this idea you start more and more to concentrate not on the results but on the value, the rightness, the truth of the work itself.

On this idea- why send my mother a gift at all if she might not like it or throw it away?

I chose to send her flowers for Mother's Day, birthday, holidays because I wanted to honor the relationship. In this context, the reason, the motivation, was that I felt it was the right thing to do, no matter what her response was. Sometimes she did seem to appreciate them.

But if the motivation was an emotional connection to the outcome- feeling "loving" or "magnanamous" and wanting her to feel that, that was different. When we do something with the idea that it will make someone feel a certain way- or recognize our motivation- this seemed to have a different outcome.

Sending something that may be tossed out or rejected also had to be balanced with my own feelings. I didn't mind spending some money on a gift for my mother if she were to enjoy or use it, but being wasteful bothers me. For some reason, flowers seemed to feel like a safer option. She did seem to like them at times.

So, you can still choose to send items and gifts if you wish to. Maybe you want to honor a holiday or a birthday.  How she responds may not bother you as much as if you sent something at another time with different feelings. Or if you feel that sending anything would be too emotionally hurtful if she didn't respond as you wished, then don't.

[CC43]

Notwendy,

I'm on board with your gift policy.  Sometimes I'll buy a gift because I think it's the right thing to do--that way, I feel like I'm making an effort.  I guess it's the thought that counts more than the actual gift.  I too don't like the idea of wasting things, so often I'll pick out something that I think has a low likelihood of being rejected or thrown away, like favorite make-up or snacks.

Just my two cents.

[PearlsBefore]

PearlsBefore... would you mind sharing some of the older resources you like? I have a number of books, but would welcome others you found to be more direct.  Thank you!!

Emil Kraepelin is one of the best researchers on BPD I've found, though he used the original European name "Haltlose Personality Disorder" - but his work is blunt and on-target.

The original letter in full can be viewed at https://jimandnancyforest.com/2014/10/mertons-letter-to-a-young-activist/ - download if you want to save it, since his passing I'm afraid his website will deactivate soon; the friends of Merton, Forest, Day and Doherty are shrinking fast as age catches up.