Sharing experiences of daughters behaviour

[Roper]

Hi,
I read regularly the experiences of the forum members .I have a 42 year old daughter divorced with two young children She is a graduate qualified teacher but her personality disorder has never enabled her to commit to work . Whilst a structured day with mindfulness and planned activities could help her she can’t commit to that and instead spends every day when she does not see her children fixated on being a victim of her childhood the behaviour of her family and friends. She also presents at either the hospital or the doctors with claimed serious illnesses.
The long school holidays when she is supposed to have her children 1/2 the time triggers countless visits to the hospital to demonstrate she is too ill and too vulnerable to care for her children
We as the grandparents now know we have to step in to provide the care to her children Not a problem as we have a loving good relationship with them but it does worry us that this behaviour is having a damaging effect on them.
We provided care for our daughter through out her life We did not understand that she had a serious mental health issue until she had her children Her lack of the ability to care for the children was evident and her mood swings was a contributing factor in her divorce.
We have arranged counselling in addition to the limited care that is provided by the NHS.  It is now my belief that we have to accept that she is never going to improve.We have to accept that she either presents as an angry daughter accusing us of being terrible parents Her regular criticism is that I should not have had a professional career but stayed at home to look
after her. She blocks us and try’s to use access to the grandchildren to hurt us However as she can’t actually manage the children she uses made up or exaggerated illnesses to avoid having them. She will then switch to a high state where she claims she had a wonderful childhood she was a fantastic teacher and everything is fantastic Usually at this time she develops relationships with pretty unsuitable men who probably are attracted to what appears to be a very vivacious person.
We accept that we do have a responsibility for our daughter but believe we have to accept she is incapable of looking after her children for more than a few days at a time sometimes less We have to focus on their wellbeing and share with them in an age appropriate way their mothers mental illness Also giving them positive thoughts on their mother too. I think accepting this as the future outcome is actually helpful to our wellbeing.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi Roper
Thanks for the post. It is really valuable to hear of others' journeys and the place you have come to with your DD. I have to say there are many things in your post that I can relate to – trying to be the perfect mother in front of others, not being able to sustain relating to the children and the effort to create reasons why DD is not able to care for them.

The fact that you have stepped in will make a huge difference to your grandchildren’s lives. You don’t say how old they are, but it’s wonderful that you have a good relationship with them. I imagine it is the result of walking a tightrope most of the time.

One thing that helped me was realizing that what seemed to be a matter of ‘offloading’ her baby/child to me was to some extent my DD being a good mother ie knowing she wasn’t coping, not wanting to ‘lose it’ with the child and finding a way to avoid the situation of the child being subjected to her anger.

Thanks again for posting.

[Notwendy]

We accept that we do have a responsibility for our daughter but believe we have to accept she is incapable of looking after her children for more than a few days at a time sometimes less We have to focus on their wellbeing and share with them in an age appropriate way their mothers mental illness Also giving them positive thoughts on their mother too. I think accepting this as the future outcome is actually helpful to our wellbeing.

I am the adult daughter of a mother with BPD who also was incapable of looking after children. If you are able and willing to take on some of this role for your grandchildren, I think you are going to be doing a world of good for them.

The dynamics with a BPD parent still can have an impact. While we have had counseling to help us deal with certain situations, it's helped a lot to have other people who care about us. It's good that your grandchildren have access to counseling.

One thing to be careful of is that your D may want to be perceived as a good parent and she may genuinely want to be one- and she may feel shame for her inability. It was important to my BPD mother to have the appearance of being one. She wanted to think of herself as a good mother. My father cared about her feelings and so this was kept secret.

In addition to spending time with other family members, we had some child care. This was unusual at the time as my mother didn't work outside the home and most of her peers didn't either. As a child, we'd visit friends and and see their mothers. We didn't understand why our mother didn't do the things other mothers did. From the adult perspective- I understand it, and I am grateful for it. Young children are going to "want their mothers" even if the mother is less capable.  If your D can be included, to the extent possible, she will still feel she's having some parenting input and the kids will too.

Like your D, my mother was intelligent. She also could accomplish a college degree. It was translating her intelligence into action, into tolerating the frustrations and personal interactions of a job that she couldn't handle- whether the job was in the house, as a traditional homemaker in her era, or outside employment. But not being able to do these things were a source of shame for her which was difficult for her.

Still, for the sake of the kids, their needs take priority and as much as you can do is a good thing. Also know- you need to take care of yourselves. You need some time to yourself as well. If you have the kids- and have them in school, or day care, or bring in a sitter for a few hours to get a break- it's OK. Don't sacrifice your own financial needs but if you can afford help at home- housework or child care for a few hours to help you do this task- then do it for you.

 

[CC43]

Hi Roper,

I'm sorry your daughter hasn't figured out how to take care of her kids reliably.  That must be painful for her, for the kids and for you, too.  But maybe if all the parties accept the situation for what it is, you can learn to deal with it, even if it's not ideal.

I have an undiagnosed NPD in my life, and he operates much like your daughter.  He has never been able to care for his three children for any length of time, even after years of practice.  He doesn't want them during school days, because the logistics of getting them ready in the early mornings and managing after-school activities (including homework) is too much for him.  He refuses to handle child-centric administrative tasks such as completing permission slips or arranging for dental or medical care, let alone executing the appointments or making the payments for them.  He doesn't really want the kids during vacations, either, because it's too hard to prepare (ahem, order take-out) three meals a day.  Besides, while the kids are on a normal schedule, he prefers to be awake all night and sleep past noon; he'll be raging mad if the kids "make noise" or wake him up during his visitation.

Like your daughter, the pwuNPD spends a lot of time in the emergency room or walk-in clinics during visitation.  We'll never be sure exactly why.  I think it might come down to a number of reasons:  first, the stress of visitation literally wears him down, and it manifests as physical ailments.  Second, he revels in the attention he gets from the emergency staff, which he internalizes.  I've heard he tells tales of what an amazing father he is, trying to parent while he's dealing with grave physical ailments.  Third, I suspect he has an unhealthy reliance upon the emergency medications he obtains, bordering on addiction.  Fourth, I suspect it helps him kill time with the kids--because having them sit in waiting rooms is easier on him than organizing some sort of child-centric activity.  He doesn't know what to do with them, so how about a trip to the walk-in clinic where he can get a nice drug to numb the pain?  Alternatively, if there's a commitment (say, a soccer game), and Dad doesn't want to go, a quick trip to the emergency room will be the perfect excuse.  As a bonus, he'll tell himself that he's an awesome dad, surmounting all obstacles to be with his kids.  He's just oblivious to how the kids perceive the experience.  They suspect their dad isn't like other dads, and it's scary to be sitting in an emergency waiting room by themselves, and they're hungry, it's been over 18 hours since they've had anything to eat!  Plus, they missed the soccer game, and the other kids/coach can't rely on them to show up on game day.  Therefore, even if the kids are little, they understand that something isn't right with the low-functioning parent.  Perniciously, over time, the kids might learn from the disordered parent and start to advocate for trips to the emergency room to avoid doing things they don't want to do . . .

It may come down to finding the least-bad way to enable the kids to have a relationship with their mom, while minimizing the stress of visits.  Maybe all she can handle is a two- or three-hour visit.  Maybe it's one at a restaurant (where food is brought to her), or maybe it's a visit centered around an activity that both the mom and kids enjoy.  Maybe it's a visit at your house.  Maybe it's a combination of short visits and daily phone or Zoom calls.  Has anything like that been tried?

In the meantime, the kids likely have felt the stress of mom's unpredictable moods and lack of functioning.  I know the kids in my family have suffered at times.  Like the other poster mentioned, having a stable, involved parent and grandparents can go a long way to providing a healthy life for the children, while helping to explain, in an age-appropriate way, how to handle some of the daily issues that come up with the low-functioning parent.

I guess another perspective I'd offer is that the pwBPD/NPD in my life tend to have magical, almost delusional, thinking.  They will say they want to do all sorts of wonderful things with the kids, and they might even make plans.  They truly WANT to do fun things with the kids.  But the reality is that their moods are mercurial, so when it comes time to EXECUTE the plans, they are too easily derailed.  When kids are involved, one tiny setback--a misplaced shoe, a whine, a need for a bathroom break--conflicts with the desires of the BPD/NPD parent, and everything quickly falls apart.  When kids are involved, this is almost guaranteed.  So what the pwBPD/NPD SAYS often conflicts with what they actually DO.  In practice, this means they are not reliable (unless "reliable" means that it's guaranteed they will have a meltdown).  The implication is that to ensure a smoother life for the kids, they shouldn't be so reliant on that parent.  Maybe that comes down to expectations.  If expectations are reduced, so are the chances for disappointment.  To illustrate, maybe you don't tell the kids that they are having a day with mom today, because when she doesn't show up, they'll be disappointed.  Rather, if mom shows up, it's a happy surprise.  Similarly, if there's a call/Zoom scheduled with mom, make sure that mom calls the kids, not the other way around.  If the kids call and she doesn't come to the phone/computer, the kids are left waiting and wondering.  But if mom calls, it's a happy surprise.