Giving in...

[50andwastedlife]

I have been with my dbpdh for 23 years and it has always been difficult, obviously. But since I have been working out of the house it has been MUCH worse. He has terrible abandonment issues, and it literally turns him into the raging toddler the minute I leave the house; plus it is literally templated by his sexually abusive mother then going and working in his father's workplace and leaving him at home alone at too young an age... When it was a question of me visiting family or going to the toddler group it was bad enough but just about manageable. But work has been the tipping point.

We live in a village with no public transport and he can't drive, so he can claim that it is rational not to be able to be left in "solitary confinement" all day. (I work 3, 8-hour days a week in the office, which to his is the vast majority of the week, especially as he doesn't count time with me as being with me if our daughter is present.) He spends hours on the phone to people, sees many people and does many things, but doesn't count any of them...if I am not there doing whatever he wants to do, he feels alone and abandoned. Last night he dragged our 16yo daughter into the conversation, asking her if she wanted to move house, and when she said no, said that I would have to work from home in that case.

(I don't mind working from home per se, but it's harder to do my job,  and he hates me working from home because he feels invaded.)

Today he's saying he doesn't want me anywhere near him so I might as well be at work.

This push and pull is driving me mad, and I want to quit the job just to stay sane, but I can't afford it. I can't even tell what is the "right" thing to do or what I want. Is it giving in to work from home? Is it giving in not to? Would it be giving in to quit altogether? Would giving in be so bad if it ended this torment???

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

That's so tough and I remember going through the same thing at times with my BPD ex-wife.  Hopefully you can see a little bit past all this though to realize that he's unhappy with himself and he's passing the blame onto you.

If you only stopped going to work, he'd be happy.  But what happens when you don't have money to do stuff anymore?  Do you think he'd still be happy? 

So I'll spin the question around- what makes you happy?  That's where the focus should be.

[Notwendy]

You know that quitting your job and staying home won't make him happy. It's his own internal emotions that are doing this for him, not anything you are doing. If the sourse is emotional abuse as a child, that isn't in your power to repair his trauma for him.

In addition, I will propose that it is better for your own mental health to be working outside the home. Jobs provide more than income. There's a sense of accomplishment, interactions with other people,  and another "reality" that isn't influenced by BPD thinking.

My (late) parents were married for decades. BPD wasn't known at the time they married so there weren't resources to manage it. My father chose the path of appeasement and giving in to BPD mother. It was what he thought he needed to do. It didn't make her happy. He had a productive professional life and I think this was a boundary BPD mother had to accept - he was the wage earner in the family. Besided the income, the job provided interactions with work colleagues and another focus besides the issues at home.

Home was different. At home, the focus was BPD mother's feelings. When my father retired and was at home, he was then available all the time for BPD mother's feelings and needs. Like your H, BPD mother didn't drive and looked to him for her needs. It didn't solve her emotional issues and he didn't have the outlet he had at work.

If giving in to all the feelings and needs of the pwBPD was the path to a happy relationship, there'd be no need for this board. Many posters come here to this board because they have been giving in, and the pwBPD is still having their issues and behaviors. This is because giving in to the extent that we give up important aspects of ourselves is actually enabling the behaviors - they continue and also this extent of giving in doesn't lead to happiness for the partner. While every relationship includes some accommodating each other- the advice for someone in this situation is to maintain some boundaries and not to give up all aspects of themselves. Albeit- it's a challenge to do this sometimes.

From my own observations, I would caution you to not give up your job away from home. I don't think it was good for my father emotionally to lose that outlet and it didn't solve my mother's issues from BPD. Your job is a part of your life that is both essential to your family income and to you as a person.

Even with his issues, your H is an adult. Understandable that he doesn't like being home alone all day stuck in the house. There needs to be other solutions besides you also being home alone with him all day and there to manage his feelings,  but he needs to be willing to seek them out too.

Another issue for your H being at home all day is lack of purpose. Nobody would be happy being stuck at home with no outlets. Still, leaving your job to work at home would not be the solution. Being in a situation where he can also have an outlet and purpose could be, if he was willing to or able to manage that.

If he isn't willing to look at other social outlets, it may be that this suits him emotionally in some way. Although my BPD mother did some social things, she tended to be reclusive, so encouraging socializing sometimes didn't work. Moving may or may not be a solution, even if he's focused on it. We moved several times for my father's job and BPD mother still had BPD wherever. However, she did learn to make use of taxis and Uber to get out of the house if she wanted to.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I happen to agree with Notwendy. I think your job is essential, giving you needed money and purpose, as well as a break from your man!  Staying home with him all day would only make matters worse in my opinion, as he would feed on your indulgence of his whims and end up demanding even more, and more unreasonable things over time.

It sounds to me like he needs to get a life. By the way, I know a handful of adults who don’t drive or own a car, but that doesn’t stop them from getting out of the house. They use taxis, scooters, bikes, walking and car sharing. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. I bet your husband is full of excuses, right?  He’s not very resourceful, is he?  Maybe you have to show him what can work.

It sounds to me like your man would benefit from his own part-time gig, paid or volunteer. What is he good at?  That’s where I’d start. You might have to suggest some options (with genuine  enthusiasm) for him. But with some luck you might land on something that engages him and gets some of his focus off you. My husband became a docent of a museum specialized in an area he loves. Being a docent is akin to teaching. Could your husband tutor anyone?  Help pet sit?  Anything?

[50andwastedlife]

If you only stopped going to work, he'd be happy.   

I know that he wouldn't be happy. It just feels like it would make it less bad for a short time, and I think that's how I've spent my life...

So I'll spin the question around- what makes you happy?  That's where the focus should be.

That is such an interesting question. I don't know. I just try to ward against misery. I was reading a thread on here about values and found myself wondering if I even knew what my own values are...? I feel like a hall of mirrors with nothing in the middle.

[50andwastedlife]

You know that quitting your job and staying home won't make him happy. It's his own internal emotions that are doing this for him, not anything you are doing. If the sourse is emotional abuse as a child, that isn't in your power to repair his trauma for him.

Thank you Notwendy, even though I know that rationally, sometimes I need to be reminded or I get lost in the maelstrom again. And no, in 23 years, nothing stops the up and down. I know it's a boundary issue, and boundaries are not my strong suit. I guess if they were, I wouldn't be in this situation...!

[50andwastedlife]

It sounds to me like he needs to get a life. By the way, I know a handful of adults who don’t drive or own a car, but that doesn’t stop them from getting out of the house. They use taxis, scooters, bikes, walking and car sharing. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. I bet your husband is full of excuses, right?  He’s not very resourceful, is he?  Maybe you have to show him what can work.

It sounds to me like your man would benefit from his own part-time gig, paid or volunteer. What is he good at?  That’s where I’d start. You might have to suggest some options (with genuine  enthusiasm) for him. But with some luck you might land on something that engages him and gets some of his focus off you. My husband became a docent of a museum specialized in an area he loves. Being a docent is akin to teaching. Could your husband tutor anyone?  Help pet sit?  Anything?

Full of excuses - and blame! I have suggested volunteering etc but he finds that patronising.

We run a business together which was really hit by Covid, hence me working outside the home, and there is plenty to do with that, but he can't work on his own. He's also an artist, and shows with other people, but again, he wants me there all the time supporting whatever it is that he's doing. He does plenty of stuff, but none of it counts because I have a life outside him. He wants me to do whatever he's doing, and more, he wants me to want that too...

[50andwastedlife]

Thank you all for replying; I so appreciate the insight. Having read such alot on here and having a clearer picture of how things are, and my role in it, I can do the intellectual side. I just struggle with staying on top of my own reactions/emotions.

[Notwendy]

I can do the intellectual side. I just struggle with staying on top of my own reactions/emotions.

Are you seeing a counselor or therapist? This may feel backwards to you- he's the one with the BPD, not you, but therapy can help you with validating your feelings and perspective, and also with boundaries.

Therapy for you won't change him but if it leads to better boundaries on your part, it may change some dynamics between you.

My BPD mother seemed to need someone to be with her all the time. The underlying reason for this was that she had very high anxiety and the other person was an emotional support for her. We had hopes that moving into an assisted living community would provide social interaction for her- but even then, she prefered a one on one person while she stayed in her room. Even if you moved to an area with more transportation or activities, your H may do the same as he is now.

Keep in mind that BPD affects all relationships. One reason your H doesn't venture out is that a new relationship takes effort and a new experience raises anxiety, he would be "masking" on his best behavior. You are familiar with him, there's a pattern where you have been meeting his needs. Of course he prefers you.

That he pulled your 16 year old into this is also a way of getting his needs met but it's parentification of a child. It's not her job to manage her father's feelings and emotions. I was also enlisted into this role by that age.

My BPD mother's emotional needs were huge and she truly had difficulty managing on her own. It's possible your H has such difficulty too. On the other hand, it's not good for you to be his emotional caretaker all the time. This is a difficult dilemma- when you stay at work, it's better for your own mental health and yet, as you described- he's tormented and so torments you. On the other hand if you stay home all day to manage his feelings, your sanity is compromised and he won't learn how to be alone and manage his own feelings.

I wonder if there's some kind of social services, adult companion, or some program where he can have someone visit him at times so that it isn't only you.

[50andwastedlife]

Are you seeing a counselor or therapist? This may feel backwards to you- he's the one with the BPD, not you, but therapy can help you with validating your feelings and perspective, and also with boundaries.

I would love to but money is tight...and so is time. But really it's probably because I am as stuck in this situation as he is...

My BPD mother seemed to need someone to be with her all the time. The underlying reason for this was that she had very high anxiety and the other person was an emotional support for her. We had hopes that moving into an assisted living community would provide social interaction for her- but even then, she prefered a one on one person while she stayed in her room. Even if you moved to an area with more transportation or activities, your H may do the same as he is now.

Yes, I think that's true of my H too. He wants a close emotional support person. When he was with his previous wife, he had very close male friendships which occupied that role, and I kind of wish he could find someone else like that to bond to now.

That he pulled your 16 year old into this is also a way of getting his needs met but it's parentification of a child. It's not her job to manage her father's feelings and emotions. I was also enlisted into this role by that age.

I have been thinking of you lately NW and wondering about the long term impact on my daughter of having a BPD father. I knew he had BPD when we got married and had her, but I didn't really know what it meant, not for years. He has 2 grownup children who were 7 and 10 when he left their mother, and they are doing fine, but I think that is in part because they got the best of him through their teenage years, and I shielded them from the other parts. I have tried to shield my D too, but it's not so easy when we are all there all the time, and I fear that the model she has is that male emotions have to be looked after and female ones don't... I feel like I've hugely let her down in so many ways.

My BPD mother's emotional needs were huge and she truly had difficulty managing on her own. It's possible your H has such difficulty too. On the other hand, it's not good for you to be his emotional caretaker all the time. This is a difficult dilemma- when you stay at work, it's better for your own mental health and yet, as you described- he's tormented and so torments you. On the other hand if you stay home all day to manage his feelings, your sanity is compromised and he won't learn how to be alone and manage his own feelings.

I wonder if there's some kind of social services, adult companion, or some program where he can have someone visit him at times so that it isn't only you.

My H really does have huge emotional needs, and can't cope when he is on his own. He also finds it hugely shaming which makes him very angry. If I'm with him, he can feel "normal". If I'm not, he feels excluded and scapegoated. If I could get him an adult companion I would, like a shot, but the suggestion he might need it fills him with rage.

Thank you, though, for your  insights. It is tremendously useful.

[Notwendy]

I would love to but money is tight...and so is time. But really it's probably because I am as stuck in this situation as he is...

I have been thinking of you lately NW and wondering about the long term impact on my daughter of having a BPD father.


My H really does have huge emotional needs, and can't cope when he is on his own. He also finds it hugely shaming which makes him very angry. If I'm with him, he can feel "normal". If I'm not, he feels excluded and scapegoated. If I could get him an adult companion I would, like a shot, but the suggestion he might need it fills him with rage.

I will comment on these 3 points. One option is a 12 step CODA group. The dynamics with a spouse with alcoholism are similar to having a spouse with BPD. Often the spouse is pulled into an enabling role. There is no cost for CODA. (they sometimes take voluntary donations for some resources but there's no charge to attend). If there's an in person meeting, I found that to be better for me (I have done 12 step CODA and ACA) but there are online groups too. Searching for local and online CODA groups will lead you to one.

You feel stuck but one small step like going to a CODA meeting can be the first step to change.

You did not fail your daughter. I don't feel like my parents failed me. You did the best you knew to do at the time. That's all any parent can do. One idea though- you can't change the behavior of the parent with BPD but children learn from both parents. It was my father who was the enabler/emotional caretaker- I picked up these behaviors from him. If you can make some personal changes for yourself- you will role model this for your D. One is keeping your job- it shows her that she can do this too. Another is having boundaries and CODA can help with that.

I understand the paradox of your BPDH being emotionally needy and also feeling shame for that. BPD mother did too. Dad mostly filled the role of emotional caretaker for her. She also had friends but leaned mostly on him. After he passed, I was concerned for her but she was also angry at me. She didn't reach out for help. She was able to compensate for the shame of neediness by paying people to "do things for her" but really- it was her way of having people around to meet her needs.

It would be good if you could get someone to be a companion for your H under the guise of a friend, or maybe even a real friend. I don't know if you have a religious interest but I think most religions also have socially focused groups. If not, maybe volunteer together at a soup kitchen, or other organization that gets you both around people?

[Notwendy]

I wanted to add- I understand how difficult it is and how you do feel stuck. After Dad passed, and as BPD mother got older- I was in the position of being POA and was involved in plans for her care needs and then, I understood her emotional needs better. Her ability to mask and need to appear less dependent was puzzling.

She was able to have friends at times - some were very supportive friends, so I hope that your H can make these connections too. He may need some help and encouragement from you to put himself in places to meet people.

I know you are doing the best you can with this situation.