Dealing with CPS

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

We had a first meeting (of our third stint) with CPS a week ago on Thursday.
Our stories were quite different. She paints a picture of me as a narcissistic, abusive partner and short tempered aggressive father. I talked about children being exposed to arguing, our dv past (she says it was mutual - technically correct) and unresolveable issues.

They talked to me how one of us might consider a shelter to spare the children from the arguing, ”talk about it with your wife”.
On Friday my wife took the children to a shelter while I was at work. She went about it like you’d do if you were terrified of someone violent. Went no contact for a few hours. Went to kindergarten in the middle of the day to get our son (apprently the carers were crying). Made a brief call to inform me once they had been admitted.

The thing is, despite what they told me, the social workers had told her to do exactly that. I’d love to be angry at her, but it’s true.

The whole ”she needs to protect the children from me” lost some credibility when she came back home the following day already. She found caring for the children alone in a strange place too exhausting to manage and gave up.

We have our first meeting with our childrens’ permanent social worker tomorrow. I feel like I am tight roping over an abyss and would love some tips and support.  (Specific legal tips might be wasted, though, since we live in a European country).

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Specific things though:
 - when refuting her version of events and my parenting, how can I avoid going ad hominem, and also to avoid the appearance of going ad hominem?
 - what to make of them speaking to her as if they believed her and to me as if they believed me?
 - any pitfalls? Dont want to tumble - tightrope, abyss

[Versant]

We had a first meeting (of our third stint) with CPS a week ago on Thursday.
Our stories were quite different. She paints a picture of me as a narcissistic, abusive partner and short tempered aggressive father. I talked about children being exposed to arguing, our dv past (she says it was mutual - technically correct) and unresolveable issues.

They talked to me how one of us might consider a shelter to spare the children from the arguing, ”talk about it with your wife”.
On Friday my wife took the children to a shelter while I was at work. She went about it like you’d do if you were terrified of someone violent. Went no contact for a few hours. Went to kindergarten in the middle of the day to get our son (apprently the carers were crying). Made a brief call to inform me once they had been admitted.

The thing is, despite what they told me, the social workers had told her to do exactly that. I’d love to be angry at her, but it’s true.

The whole ”she needs to protect the children from me” lost some credibility when she came back home the following day already. She found caring for the children alone in a strange place too exhausting to manage and gave up.

We have our first meeting with our childrens’ permanent social worker tomorrow. I feel like I am tight roping over an abyss and would love some tips and support.  (Specific legal tips might be wasted, though, since we live in a European country).

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Specific things though:
 - when refuting her version of events and my parenting, how can I avoid going ad hominem, and also to avoid the appearance of going ad hominem?
 - what to make of them speaking to her as if they believed her and to me as if they believed me?
 - any pitfalls? Dont want to tumble - tightrope, abyss

[ForeverDad]

Many of the family support systems, even the family court system, have a history of default preference toward mothers, probably persists to some extent today.

My marriage was manageable until we had a child.  (She had an abusive stepfather and was greatly triggered when she saw I had become a father...)  It was increasingly difficult, yes, she also demanded our son was to be "protected" from my relatives, even my elderly parents.  Once I contacted the legal systems - police for a "family dispute" - my marriage had crossed a line from which it didn't survive.  We separated and soon were divorcing.   She filed numerous allegations against me during the separation, the two year divorce and even for another year or so after the final decree.  Even after they stopped she was still playing games with exchanges and disparaging me.  Now that our son is an adult, things are less conflictual as long as I don't trigger her.

I say this to enlighten you that recent events in your life too have raised the conflict to a new level and there may not be a way to go back.  My ex was too entitled to turn around and fix herself and her marriage.  Maybe your spouse will listen and respond in therapy for everyone's benefit.  Or maybe not, which means you need to ponder your options.

When it comes to family courts, their approach is typically to ignore mental health concerns.  They act more as referees, monitoring separating the opponents and making orders regarding the marriage itself, the custody of minor children and each parent's parenting schedule.

My concern is that your spouse's allegations may set the stage for the court - which takes the legal stance that it doesn't know you, her or the children - to make a temp order greatly restricting your parenting.  If court gets involved, I encourage you to do what you can to get the "least bad" temp order.  Why?  Because a temp order can last until the end of the divorce - for us as much as 1 or 2 years - and often can morph into the final decree.  (By then, court may assume the temp order has been in place for so long the kids are used to it and improving it may rock the boat.)

Just in case, you probably ought to confidentially get William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  It has been a lifesaver for so many of us here.

[zachira]

When dealing with the courts and CPS having the right kind of legal documentation of how the children have been treated by both parents can make a big difference  in determining the amount of custody each parent gets. Your wife is already beginning the process of legally documenting that you are the problem parent even though her allegations are not true. Do consult with a lawyer specialized in cases like yours, so you can take the lead in doing what is best for your children. Taking this step does not mean you have to decide whether to continue your marriage or not, as the circumstances may end your marriage at some point.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer bluntly told me when I belatedly hired him, "My first task is to sit on my clients so they don't talk and make their bad situation worse than before."

This is a reminder that we have a right to remain silent.  There is another aspect to remember... Most courts ignore unsubstantiated complaints older than six months.  So if she goes down that path, don't enable her by trying to explain about the endless "he said, she said" that will typically be set aside as hearsay anyway.

In the USA family courts appear to have a policy that they disregard unsubstantiated allegations older than 6 months.  Essentially the undocumented "he said... she said..." is viewed as hearsay and then set aside.  Yes, they'll take a quick look but I recall when I was testifying about my ex's behavior the magistrate stopped me at the 6 month mark.  Of course, officials will pay closer attention when there is documentation or evidence of child abuse or child neglect.  But most courts get so many emotion-based allegations that they may quickly react just in case but then have a more skeptical stance when there isn't any substance behind the claims, as in smoke versus fire.

I explain it this way... picture a person calling emergency services saying, "My ex almost burned down my house last week!"  Imagine the responder replying, "It's not an emergency now, call back when you have an ongoing emergency."

Check your local state or country's laws, procedures and policies in case it is similar where you live.

For the benefit of others here, I previously mentioned some other ideas.

It might be good to add that you need to be careful not to share too much with her, especially the legal advice your lawyer gives you, since the odds are that in her present state she is likely to use that information to sabotage you.