Long time listener, first time caller

[Til3005]

Hello, all -

This is my first post and I’m sure a lot of people who find this space start out saying the same things. They are a little (or a lot) lost and just want to contextualize all the things they are experiencing. They just want to know there are other people who are feeling and living through some of the same experiences. It can feel very overwhelming and isolated to be treading these waters. I’m not going to be any different in that I have so many questions and want so much to just know that this isn’t just me living through the mental and emotional exhaustion.

I adopted my niece (my husbands side) when she was 16, almost ten years ago. She had a mother who struggled with addiction and a father who ended up in jail when she was very young.  She was basically living alone and some of the things she was getting into were not safe. No one was stepping in to help her and I felt like I had to before I watched something really tragic happen. We brought her to live with us hours from where she was living. It meant a lot of change for her. I immediately got her into counseling and attempted to wade through her trauma.  Previous to adopting her, we had adopted two other children through foster care so we weren’t totally in the dark about the challenges that lie ahead. Her growing into adulthood was rocky. She constantly had somatic complaints. She was always sick. She was constantly saying she didn’t know if she could refrain from killing herself. She would beg to go to the ER at midnight because she wasn’t sure she could keep herself safe.  She was diagnosed as bipolar at that time and we began medication which really helped things for the rest of her high school career. It wasn’t perfect but it was better. When she moved out to go to college I thought we had hit a good stride. She had done well in high school and was in a program that was challenging in college. We got her an apartment close by but as soon as she moved out we stopped hearing from her unless she needed money or a favor. She rarely called toncheck in. She eventually dropped out of college, stopped taking her medication, began dating a totally abusive drug dealer, and began her experiment with drugs. She ghosted us for quite awhile. She would resurface when she needed something.  She eventually hit some sort of rock bottom and accepted our offer to get her into job corps. She stayed long enough to get a certification that would lead to a decent job but she couldn’t seem to hold one very long. She was evicted and the police called many times for domestic violence in the apartment she was sharing with this man.

Years passed. She was committed several times and she would always leave the hospital with medication and a plan but she would stop taking it, fail to keep a job, find awful people to live with and only contact us for requests. She ended up getting pregnant and decided on her own to reach out for counseling. We thought maybe we were rounding a corner but it was then that she was diagnosed with bpd with narcissistic features and bipolar disorder. The therapist recommended dbt and medication. Neither of those things happened for reasons I’m not clear about.


She had her baby. Raised her in total chaos. Domestic violence again. Self harm now. Cutting her arms and legs. Blood all over the house. An alcoholic boyfriend. Lots of dysfunction and I thought if I responded when she called she could find her way to something more stable. It felt wrong to leave her child to try and grow up in that without an anchor. I learned pretty quickly that my presence had no positive impact on her decision to find help. She instead leaned hard on me and on her bfs mom to take her daughter. She outsourced parenting and got to step away when she was too overwhelmed. Honestly I didn’t know what to do because I was afraid that if I didn’t give her that she would kill herself. She called frequently to tell me she was done living and it always felt so urgent.

Eventually I untangled myself a little. Got into counseling. Realized that I could do little to change her and that should she decide to end her life - she will. My actions will only delay a plan to do so if she’s that serious.  Only she can really save her life. In the midst of this she got pregnant again. By this time I could not extend myself any further and was going through some things in my own personal life that needed my attention. I spent so much time worrying about her that I didn’t stop to attend to things that were important for my own health and well being. I felt that cold sweat when my phone would ring and it was her. I would brace myself when I saw her texts because I knew it was not anything positive. Either it’s the end of the world or she needs something that should come above anything else. My therapist started helping me to detach from the chaos and start to choose myself. I learned to grey rock her demands and drama.  It gave me some peace but my instant reaction to her is anxiety.


Finally after this Thanksgiving it sort of came to a head for me, and her lack of concern about anything but her needs really began to do something different in my mind and my heart. I was tired of it. I was tired of being made to feel like the enemy.  I was tired of my actions always being interpreted as malicious. I was tired of defending myself. I was tired of advocating for my own peace. I was tired of disputing actual delusions about events we all lived through. I was tired of the emotional blackmail. I was tired of the police calling me because there’s been another incident and someone needs to come get the baby. I was just tired. Exhausted. Hurt. Emotionally depleted. The final straw came when i got injured at work and I had to cancel babysitting for her. I had a concussion and couldn’t even lift the baby if I wanted to. I told her that was the situation and she launched into this hateful and disrespectful rant about how I was not there for her or supporting her and this is just another example. That I’ve never been dependable and that I’m always overextending myself. I had heard her be hateful to other people but not me. Then again, I’d always done what she asked, in part to keep out of the chaos. But since I had begun to grey rock and just not be as available - I was not as useful as i once was. The exhaustion hit a new level. I detached at that moment.

After talking to my therapist I sent my niece a letter at Christmas. I worked with my therapist to write her in a way that didn’t point out any particular instances or sound accusatory. I simply wanted to convey to her that I needed something different in our relationship. I felt as though she was interested when I was useful and when I wasn’t I didn’t feel that connection come from her end. I told her I loved her very much and that if she wanted to work on this I always was willing. She didn’t write back immediately but texted me yesterday to tell me that our relationship was over. She cited many reasons, half of which were bent reality, as to why and said my lack of reponse to her calls or texts sent a clear message. I could tell for her it read as abandonment.  She then pointed out that she had blocked me back in October but said she had discovered how little I cared because I hadn’t found another way to reach out to her. I didn’t exercise any care or consideration for her as a new mother and the support she needed. At first i was blindsided. I didn’t know that facts could be contorted so much to make someone’s reality make sense but there it was. As time has passed I realize i can’t say or do anything about that will change this or make her realize I am not this horrible person she needs me to be. I let it go.


I’m struggling with what I do now. I miss her oldest daughter a lot. The younger one i purposely couldn’t bond with because I worried a day would come that they would be used as emotional pawns and I needed to be able to let that go with as little heart ache as possible. My husband says I have to keep reaching out to her. She has a mental illness and she still needs people. I said I agree that she has a mental illness but I can’t justify setting myself on fire to keep her warm. He also comes at this from the perspective of not being the person who gets the calls or handles her. That has really solely been me.

What do you do when you’re in this situation?  I know her response was probably a feature of being very deregulated and feeling that chaos from reading abandonment in  my letter even if it wasn’t there. She is protecting herself. I get all that. I just don’t feel like her abusive behavior is the price I have to pay to have her in my life.  Am I wrong?  I feel like chasing her just reinforces that game she is playing, whether knowingly or unknowingly. That she will be awful and I will still be there. Just like being blocked was a test. As a healthy adult I see those things as boundaries and when I see someone’s boundary I respect that. For her it’s a test of loyalty and I apparently failed. I am prepared to let her go and I was when I sent that letter. I knew it wouldn’t help things and would maybe make them worse but it felt really good to say what I wanted to say and held in for so long. I didn’t say it for her. I said it for me.

I just need to let her go but I want to know what others have experienced and what’s on the other side of this feeling.

If you read this far, bless you. I just feel like I haven’t had anyone to talk to about this and now I feel like at least one person will know what I’m going through.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Pook075]

What do you do when you’re in this situation?  I know her response was probably a feature of being very deregulated and feeling that chaos from reading abandonment in  my letter even if it wasn’t there. She is protecting herself. I get all that. I just don’t feel like her abusive behavior is the price I have to pay to have her in my life.  Am I wrong?  I feel like chasing her just reinforces that game she is playing, whether knowingly or unknowingly. That she will be awful and I will still be there.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you've gone through this and so much of it rings true in my life as well with a 26 year old BPD/bipolar daughter.

To answer your question directly, you are not wrong.  But are you still paying some of her bills?  If so, then I change my answer.

BPDs struggle with entitlement and understanding right from wrong.  As mom, you have to set the tone in a healthy way.  If you want my help, then you'll be active in my life and treat me well.  If you don't want that, then it's your decision and I wish you luck...get help somewhere else.

You are correct, the blocking was a test and it's classic BPD push/pull.  The saying, "I hate you...don't leave me" came to mind since that's so often the attitude when they're thinking in a dysregulated way.  You've treated her well and don't need to be tested, nor do you need to beg for the privilege of being in her life.  Again, the entitlement does so much more harm than good.  Keeping your distance helps her learn that lesson.

One thing I told myself when things were at their worst was, "This is for now, but it's not for forever."  Try to remember that.  This season will pass and someday she will be back.  For now, focus on improving your own mental health without the abuse involved.  You're free from it until you choose otherwise. 

Because that's the thing; she can choose to reach back out, but you get a choice as well.  You don't have to tolerate a one-way abusive relationship any longer.

[CC43]

Hi there,

It's no wonder you're just done.  Your niece has put you through the wringer.  You've gone above and beyond to support her, and yet she treats you badly.  She uses emotional blackmail to get what she wants, and though she's hit some lows, she's avoiding treatment, as she thinks her life is "working" for her, even if she's miserable and making you miserable too.  You're right, you can't control her suicidal thoughts or gestures.  Her emotions are all over the place, and she's impulsive, which you have zero influence over.  It is NOT your fault, and you shouldn't feel guilty.

It sounds to me like you need a break, and to try to change the dynamic of your relationship.  Your niece is a full-grown adult now.  You are not responsible for her anymore.  I think you engage with her only when she's treating you right.  If she blocks you, then you respect that choice; you are under no obligation to reach out to her.  If she sends a mean message, treat it like spam, because it is spam.  I know it's extra hard because there are innocent children involved.  But you've learned a hard lesson:  your niece uses them as pawns to get what she wants.

The pwBPD in my life isn't nearly as dysfunctional as your niece, as she has gotten therapy and turned her life around for the most part.  Yet she continues to be demanding, and she blocks her dad and me all the time.  She's blocking us as I write this.  It seems the relationship is purely transactional right now--she reaches out only when she needs something, such as money or logistical support.  She can be nice (sort of) until she gets what she wants, and then she blocks again.  The good news is, she's making some headway towards supporting herself better.  But the sad news is, she's still entitled/demanding/petulant/rude/angry/*itchy/mean.  She's alienated from her entire family, when what she craves is love and closeness.  When she blocks people, she thinks she's protecting herself, but what she's really doing is perpetuating a status quo of dysfunctional relationships.  I don't know what the turning point will be, if we live to see it.  I guess she needs more time experiencing the "real world" to learn that the problem is with her, not everyone else.  You see, I think pwBPD have very distorted thinking, which makes them slow learners in many ways.  She needs lots and lots of time and practice with adulting, to learn to control her emotions better so that every little stress or setback doesn't set off a raging blamefest.  For as long as her dad and I are in her orbit and "fix" her problems, she'll think that we're the ones to blame.  So I think we should step back, to give her more space to learn how the "real world" works.

I know your husband urges you to keep reaching out to your niece, because in normal relationships that would be the right thing to do.  But I think if she's blocking you, she doesn't want contact right now.  By not reaching out, you are respecting your niece's desire for distance.  In essence she's in a "time out," and my advice would be not to interrupt the time out.  Let her come to you, and engage only if she's being civil.  I'd say that you could recognize a major holiday and/ore her birthday with a short text or card (e.g. Happy Birthday, hope you are well)--you don't include any emotional content or obligations, and treat her as you would a business colleague or distant cousin.  That way, you're reaching out sometimes, but you're not "begging" her or interrupting her time out.

If I were you, I'd focus on enjoying life to the fullest.  You deserve that, especially after all you've done to support your niece.  The way I think of it is modeling what a healthy adult's life looks like.  That includes taking exquisite care of yourself, and enjoying hobbies and time with friends.  If you are in a good frame of mind, I think it's easier not to get "sucked in" the chaos of your niece's life.  You wait, patiently, for her to come to you and treat you right.  The second she lashes out in anger, blaming you, you pull back and give her another adult "time out."  Does that sound reasonable?

[js friend]

Hi Til3005,


What came after letting go for me has been a feeling of PEACE.


I decided to let go 5 years ago. Udd has had another child since the estrangement(3)
and I have never met the youngest gc.

For many years it felt like udd took over my life with her problems. It began in her early teens and didnt end until I decided enough was enough. Dv in most of her relationships, secretly dropping out of college, teenage pregnancy, criminal activity, lying, stealing.... Then the power struggle came once she had gc mainly to do with childcare. If I couldnt have them then I was a useless Gm and when I did have them, then I was taking over!

I like the phrasing of letter you wrote to your dd. It is difficult not feel able to just tell them straight I think her response just proves that she is just not prepared to see your concerns as valid or to take them into consideration and your r/s will always be one sided. Your udd is angry right now which was to be expected and thats where I would leave it.No back and forths or pleading or begging. You have lived this dysfunction and been enmeshed in your niece's life without any thanks for too long and it is time to take a step back and she may actually begin to figure things out for herself as my udd as done.

 

[Til3005]

Thank you so much for the warm replies. To answer the first question, no I don’t pay for her life in anyway anymore. I did when she first moved out and was a teenager still but I realized pretty early on she was using me or lying about what the money was for. I didn’t feel I owed her anything further when she was an adult, and especially when she was completely transactional.

The advice given here is completely reasonable. I don’t feel the need to reach out in an emotional way. A couple of years ago I absolutely would have. I would have said and done anything to validate her and prove she’s loved. However I’ve had at least a year where I’ve really evaluated what our relationship actually is. I actually really struggled because I didn’t know what parts of our relationship were real and what was just the long game to keep access to money or a babysitter.

After this last episode in which she decided to rip my character apart so she could remain a victim I decided to block her. I wasn’t interested in the follow up texts or anything else she may have to say. I haven’t decided if I’ll unblock her. Maybe eventually but not anytime soon. Her usual move is to be ridiculous or say things that are hurtful and then go silent for awhile. Then she will just try to reintegrate with no mention of the way she acted. She’s over it now so we should all be over it. No apologies. No acknowledgment. I just don’t want that kind of relationship with her anymore.  Have others decided that they don’t want to leave the lines open for the pwbpd to re-enter their lives?  My niece decided on NC but it’s my choice to keep it that way. At least for now. Her bday is coming up in a few weeks and maybe I will send her a card but I really just don’t want to talk to her.

I am learning more about bpd over the years and trying to understand how her mind works. I was hoping knowing somewhat would help me in ways to respond and ways to engage. Have your loved ones realized how their actions and the things they say impact others?  Are they able to take perspective at some point?  Did it take medication and therapy?   I felt in the past that sometimes she does know how she sounds and it either causes shame or it causes her to be distant. I just know that she fails to take into account how others are experiencing their lives regularly. My father had just died and she said, “I’m sorry to hear that but can I park my car in your mom’s driveway while I figure out my living situation?”  I couldn’t comprehend the inability to see beyond her immediate needs or wants. I still really can’t.  I like when one response in this thread referred to her angry  communication as spam.  I’m a good person who tries her best to support others with honesty but hearing from her all the things she swears I’ve done to hurt her or ruin her life creates this cognitive dissonance that makes me second guess myself. She believes it so intensely in the moment and with such callousness that I almost believe her too. I can’t continue with that.  It seems unhealthy at best. When I let go of the grief I know I will be better able to cope with this whole ordeal, but I’m literally mourning someone who is very much alive and hates me.

[CC43]

Have your loved ones realized how their actions and the things they say impact others?  Are they able to take perspective at some point?  Did it take medication and therapy?   I felt in the past that sometimes she does know how she sounds and it either causes shame or it causes her to be distant. I just know that she fails to take into account how others are experiencing their lives regularly. My father had just died and she said, “I’m sorry to hear that but can I park my car in your mom’s driveway while I figure out my living situation?”  I couldn’t comprehend the inability to see beyond her immediate needs or wants.

Hi again,

What you describe above corresponds exactly with how my adult stepdaughter with BPD behaves.  I think she realizes how her impulsive actions are mean-spirited, and she feels deep shame after the fact.  In practice, she avoids contact with the people she has mistreated, presumably because she's embarrassed about her actions.  You wrote that her behavior either causes shame or causes her to be distant, but I think it's both.  Nevertheless, over time, she'll twist fact patterns and concoct a convoluted story whereby she becomes the victim, in order to lessen her guilt!  This reflects the disordered thinking of BPD--not understanding strong emotions and assuming they are caused by someone else.  In my opinion, the victim attitude and constant blaming are the worst part of BPD, as she's never responsible for her own decisions, and she is rendered powerless.  At the end of the day, she feels she lacks agency in her life.  Would you say your niece has had a very difficult time carving out an adult's life for herself?  That has been a central problem for my stepdaughter.  I think it's mostly due to her not feeling responsible for her own life.

Anyway, the typical playbook for my BPD stepdaughter is that after a period of estrangement, she'll resume contact when she needs something, and she'll pretend like her negative behavior/attitude never even happened.  As you stated, she'll never apologize, because apologizing would mean she takes responsibility, which she can't fathom, because she clings to the victim narrative like her life depends on it.  In a perverse way, her life does depend on it, because if she's not the poor little abused girl, who is she anyway?  Feeling abused and mistreated is central to her identity!  Besides, if she did take someone else's feelings into account, the victim narrative would start to unravel, and she'd probably feel terrible about herself, which is unbearable to her.

Another way of thinking about this is to understand that your pwBPD probably RESENTS you for making her feel dependent.  In her twisted thinking, you are the "abuser," and so she has no problem using you, because she thinks you OWE her!  Like you said, she just wants your money and free babysitting, and she couldn't care less about what's going on in your life, because the only person she thinks about is herself.  She has no mental bandwidth to think about anyone else, which would make her too upset anyway.

To illustrate my point, I lived with my adult BPD stepdaughter, on and off, for much of her adult life.  I bet she couldn't tell you what my occupation was, the name of the company where I worked, my siblings' names, my nieces'/nephews' names or my birthday.  I sincerely doubt she knows what countries I lived in or what languages I speak.  She asked me how my day went perhaps twice in an entire decade.  She has lived with me for years, but never, ever helped with chores, not even taking out the trash, replacing a roll of toilet paper, unloading the dishwasher or watering a plant, despite the fact that she was unemployed and not in school the overwhelming majority of the time.  Part of her lack of curiosity and helpfulness is upbringing, but most of it is BPD.  Some of her common phrases are, "I don't care / I don't know / I don't want to."  Does that sound familiar?

Look, my BPD stepdaughter has gotton intensive therapy, and she has improved her daily functioning immensely.  She has been able to make and keep some friendships.  She is more stable now, and less prone to rages.  She has started working (finally), but I wonder if she's able to handle a full-time schedule, which would be a first in her lifetime.  Despite these improvements, she still hasn't repaired most of the close relationships with her family.  The exception is that she'll talk to her dad when she needs something, and she's forced to talk to me sometimes when she's living in my home.  Nevertheless, the relationship feels transactional, and I feel mostly like a servant with her.  It's all take and no give.  I can't even say it's 99% take and 1% give--it feels like 100% take.  No thank yous, no I'm sorries, no help whatsoever, not even a Good Morning.  Maybe there's just too much emotional baggage to deal with.  Maybe it's partly me--I just don't care for her very much right now, she's too negative and entitled.  I would like to help her (mostly to help my husband), but she doesn't really want the kind of help I can offer (such as advice and encouragement).  All she wants is money, logistical support and a transitional living situation/storage facility.  I feel like I've tried over and over again to be supportive, give her compliments, tell her I'm proud of her, help her in various ways, ignore her meltdowns, but I've felt a lot of resentment bubbling up too.  It's not that I'm upset about her being ungrateful (I know it's not in her to be grateful)--it's more that her aura is negative and I don't like being around her.  I guess what bugs me is that I feel guilty that I don't want to be around her, and I'm sick of feeling used.

I guess I'll close with this little tidbit.  I recently learned I'm not alone with this assessment of my BPD stepdaughter.  Since she had undergone significant therapy and made some progress in her day-to-day functioning, I thought I'd ask her sister if she had had any contact with her lately.  Hopeful as always, I thought that taking steps to repair relationships with siblings would be a sure sign of therapeutic progress.  Well, her sibling stated that she hadn't had any contact whatsoever in the last year.  She was waiting for an apology from her BPD sister first.  She said something along the lines that she wasn't going to pretend anymore that her BPD sister's mean treatment of various family members (e.g. raging texts followed by blocking) was acceptable.  Basically, she had had enough, and she was waiting for an apology before resuming contact.  Her dad said something similar recently as well:  He was done living in the midst of dysfunction.  He's sick of it.  He mentioned considering not paying for his daughter's therapist anymore, but he was afraid to do that as she'd have another meltdown.  Now, I know he'll ultimately cave and do whatever his daughter requests.  But he's starting to resent the situation.  I think that's a relatively new feeling and reflective of a transition, from feeling responsible for his child to realizing that he's powerless to change another adult.

My intention isn't to be too negative, but I'm trying to be realistic and validate what you're feeling.  I know how hard it is because we want to love everyone in our family, and we want them to love us back, especially considering all the sacrifices we've made in trying to help.  With BPD that's really complicated in practice.

[js friend]

Hi again Til3005,

No my udd has never tried therapy or medication. I think her strong  Npd traits  prevents her any form of self reflection on any level. I know that she has expressed that she has anxiety, but says that it is because we (her family)cause her anxiety because we have all treated her badly. I think my udd knows how her words affected others and uses them purposely to hurt and wont listen or show any empathy how her behaviour affects others. Its all about power and control. The closest it ever came to someone challenging her behaviour about the previous lack of access to my gc udd got so angry that she up and left. 

I could never express any point of view without being spoken over or ridiculed in some way. She would mimic my voice, roll her eyes, sigh heavily or just walk away. For years I just thought of my udd being a late developer emotonally and hoped and gave it time that she would grow out of her behaviours but the end of our r/s came when she physically attacked me. After that there was no going back. I knew there was never going to be an apology or even if there was it wouldnt be sincere. I still continued to look after my gc for  but had no interaction with udd and I knew that my time was up when the new b/f moved in and anymore, but by that time I was just over the feeling of being used anyway.

I honestly dont feel that Iam missing out on anything not having a r/s with my udd. My own needs were never met or even taken into consideration.

It takes a while to unravel and it is natural to feel grief for a while but I have found that even though I wish I had never gone through this experience it has made me a stronger person and I can recognise the    and save myself time any potential further emotional harm.