Can’t deal with reckless driving, dementia, AND uBPD

[JazzSinger]

It’s been a while since my last post. 

I’m detached from my HwuBPD and his  constant complaints, criticisms, and overall negativity, but I can’t detach from the dementia, especially when the lives of others are involved.

A few nights ago, my H expressed concern over his driving. He said he almost hit someone, TWICE. The last time was such a close call that other pedestrians were cursing and yelling at him, and the woman he almost hit was doing the same. He said he still has nightmares about it.  He also told me about several near collisions, and many other near misses.  He said he’s a nervous wreck on highways, yet his favorite little spot is 2 highways away. He said he was seriously considering cutting back on the little driving he does now.

Then, just a day later, he did a Complete 360.  He’s saying none of the near misses were his fault — it was all the fault of the other person. Then, he began planning two car trips, both very soon, and at night.  I pleaded with him and told him I feared for his safety and the safety of others. He got angry with me! I backed off.

I can remember pre-Covid and early post Covid, when his driving was already slipping.  (Did I mention he only has one eye? The other is a prosthesis). There were times when he couldn’t distinguish a red light from green or amber. I get it — The sun can do that. But what if I hadn’t been in the car? He would also unknowingly run red lights, and deny it. He got dings in the car, and very small dents, when I wasn’t around. Not to mention driving while watching his favorite judge show on the dashboard.

But now, he’s much worse. I don’t even get in the car with him anymore. I don’t feel safe with him behind the wheel. 

I’m concerned, but I can’t control him.  If I take away his keys, he will argue and fight, and I will lose. I can’t contact the authorities— He hasn’t hurt anyone yet. He comes back in one piece, every time, so far.

Best I can do is pray, and call our son. He should know about this. It’s time. I was managing the uBPD, but this is too much for me. 

Jazz

[Notwendy]

I think it's fine to call your son. He'd want to know. However, I don't know how much either of you could intervene. If it were possible, you'd have more ability than he does.

I recall having similar concerns about my parents. Dad didn't have BPD or dementia, but he was ill and it was getting harder for him to drive. He may not have wanted to drive but since he was the one who drove, and BPD mother didn't- she wanted him to. You know how it is to not go along with that, and so he did.

During this time, I called social services because I was concerned about the decisions my parents were making and BPD mother's behavior- mainly for their safety. The response was that as long as they were considered legally competent, there was nothing I could do.

Legally competent means they can pass a mental status test- knowing who they are, where they are, and questions like that. So one can have BPD and even early dementia and still not be considered legally incompetent. One can be legally competent to make their own decisions, even if we think these decisions aren't good ones.

Later on, when BPD mother was making reckless decisions, her family encouraged me to speak to an elder care attorney. It was basically the same and she explained the process of having BPD mother declared legally incompetent. This would have to go to court. She would need a full neuropsych evaluation presented to the court, and possibly witnesses to attest to her capacity. If she were already under care for a dementia diagnosis, there may have been another way, but she was not. The costs and time wouldn't be worth it as her medical providers' opinions were that she was still legally competent and it wouldn't be a case.

Elder rights and autonomy are well defended as they should be, to keep the elderly from being exploited. But in your situation and mine- there was no intent to exploit- it was concern for safety. It's understandable that an elderly person will resist losing autonomy and driving is a part of that and also understandable to be concerned about someone's driving- but from what I know, the law protects autonomy.

For your son, I would caution to keep him from the Karpman triangle dynamics. My naively trying to "rescue" too much resulted in BPD mother getting angry at me, much like your H would get angry as well. Still, I would have wanted to know about my parents' health conditions, but I didn't have the ability or power to intervene, and he possibly won't either.

What you can do, if he is willing to do this, and you trust your son, is to make him power of attorney to make decisions for you in the event you ever aren't able to. If your H is willing to do this for him as well he could do this for his father too. He may not be able to do this now, and hopefully not ever, but it's some peace of mind to know someone you trust can.

[CC43]

Hi Jazz,

Good to hear from you again.  The driving situation sounds dangerous indeed.  I'd say you don't drive with him anymore unless you're behind the wheel yourself.

You could offer to arrange for alternate transportation, such as an Uber.  You might also consider initiating a process to have him medically evaluated for driving.  I imagine that you could contact your local DMV for advice.  They could give him a road and vision test.

If all that fails and your husband still listens to you, you could try to convince him not to drive at night anymore.  I've encouraged my elderly mom to limit night driving as much as possible.

Look, I had a similar situation in my extended family (ex BIL).  He had many near-misses while transporting his kids in his car.  He has several dings on his car, and he'll get lost on familiar routes, such as when picking up his kids at their school.  Eventually, family court removed his ability to drive his kids.  I bet that interviews with the kids about the near-misses and getting lost had some weight, together with his alarming physical condition as described in his medical reports.  I think his license should have been suspended, but the court didn't go that far.  Nevertheless, his physical deterioration is severe enough that I think he relies on others (his mom, his brother, Uber) to drive him everywhere anyway.

Just my two cents.

[CC43]

P.S.

I had another thought.  You might try contacting your local senior center.  My guess is this sort of situation happens all the time.  They might give you advice, as well as tips on alternate transportation services.

[Notwendy]

If you can get a court order, great.

My father did accidentally hit another car. Fortunately nobody was hurt, and I hoped this would be what got him to stop. However, my parents consulted an attorney and somehow got Dad's driving privileges restored.

If your son becomes power of attorney in the case it is ever needed- he also needs to know what the legal aspect of this is too- to protect himself. Facilities are known to want family to sign and take on the costs, but there could be resources like Medicaid for that and a power of attorney does not have to take that on.

Where he can be of help as POA is to help a parent with keeping up with bills, and other functions, and in the case the parent isn't able to make decisions, help with that. As long as my mother was legally competent, being POA did not override her decisions.

[Notwendy]

P.S.

I had another thought.  You might try contacting your local senior center.  My guess is this sort of situation happens all the time.  They might give you advice, as well as tips on alternate transportation services.

Councils on Aging are great sources of advice. I also called adult social services. Even though I coudn't intervene- it was helpful to know what resources are there. Their advice was at no charge.

[JazzSinger]

Elder rights and autonomy are well defended as they should be, to keep the elderly from being exploited. But in your situation and mine- there was no intent to exploit- it was concern for safety. It's understandable that an elderly person will resist losing autonomy and driving is a part of that and also understandable to be concerned about someone's driving- but from what I know, the law protects autonomy.

NotWendy,

Thanks so much.

I realize than my son can’t do much, and neither can I. In addition, my H would never consent to any sort of testing, etc.  He’s “Terrific!”  He claims, “There’s nothing wrong with me” — At least there’s nothing wrong that he will  admit to.  His confession that night was done in a rare moment of clarity.   

I understand — He’s entitled to his autonomy.  I just pray that he doesn’t hurt anyone.  I also hope he doesn’t follow through with these car trips. So far, the one for tonight doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.

JazzSinger

[Pook075]

Hey Jazz!

I remember having this conversation with a few family members when they were no longer safe to drive.  It's a hard one and nobody wants to admit that they can't see or focus as well as they used to.  If your husband won't hang up the keys on his own, hopefully his license renewal is coming up and the DMV will make that decision for him.

Other than that, just let the man drive.  Eventually he will have an accident and they will likely take his license.  I hate that for you but you can't do anything else in your situation.

[JazzSinger]

Hi Jazz,


You could offer to arrange for alternate transportation, such as an Uber.  You might also consider initiating a process to have him medically evaluated for driving.  I imagine that you could contact your local DMV for advice.  They could give him a road and vision test.

Just my two cents.

Thanks, CC43.

I appreciate your “two cents.”   My H listens to NO ONE — He knows everything.  Also, he does nothing wrong, ever. That’s where we are.

He won’t change until  he’s scared to death, and apparently, that hasn’t happened yet. Meanwhile, I can’t imagine the things he didn’t tell me about.

I will call our son, but we’re definitely in “wait and see mode.”  It sucks, because really, we’re waiting to see if he harms someone or hurts himself. Not good. I’m praying he’ll come to his senses before anything terrible happens.

Jazz

[Notwendy]

You can still have your own boundary with not riding in the car with him when he's driving, or driving yourself when you two go somewhere- or also call an Uber for the two of you. When he decides to drive on his own- that's his decision.

[At Bay]

Because of an elderly aunt, I called about reporting someone's driving. In your state it could be DMV, or MVD or DPS, and my cousin asked me to find out because she was afraid her mother would catch her calling them.

I was told that in our state, anyone can report someone at risk behind the wheel, and it can be anonymous. I didn't ask how they would follow-up if I reported her. In your H's case, someone could have gotten his license number from the scary incidents he described.

[GaGrl]

Many (most?) states' DMV require re-testing of the eye exam at every driver license renewal after a certain age. How soon is your husband's renewal due? That might be a way to get his license taken.

Accidents and injury is a very real concern. My dad was still driving at 91 (!!). He started having AFIB episodes where he "zoned out" for several minutes. This happened when he was driving home one day from the post office, and he ran into the back of a truck at a stoplight, then went off the road and rolled his car. It could have been a lot worse as it was, he broke his thumb. The car was totalled. When he came home from his follow-up (my cousin had taken him), he walked in and announced he had decided not to drive anymore. I suspect his doctor told him it was time to stop, that the situation could happen again, and that he would never forgive himself if he hurt someone else.

Perhaps your husband's PCP could talk with him about which daily activities are becoming difficult?

[CC43]

Hi again Jazz,

In the last years of my dad's life, he gradually lost his faculties, and he had all sorts of physical ailments, including vision and hearing loss.  Anyway, there were many times my mom couldn't talk sense into him--about driving, about following doctors' orders.  That's when she'd call me to ask me to talk some sense into him, because I was "the only person he'd listen to."  Maybe your son could fill that role?  His opinion might have more weight than yours, as there's less emotional baggage, and he's younger.  Honestly, there were a couple of times I arranged things for my dad for his own good, without consulting him.  As an example, he was accidentally buying stuff online and paying for subscriptions that he had no use for.  I just shut down that sort of thing, and he never complained about it because he didn't even know he had made those purchases.  Of course, my dad wouldn't have trusted my mom to touch his computers, but he trusted me.  I restored his tablet back to working order, which is what he wanted.  Then the deal was, if he wanted to do any sort of financial transaction, he'd call me, and I'd do it FOR him.  I think he liked having me as a "personal secretary," while for him, it was much easier to call me and have me do it, rather than attempt it himself!  I guess what I'm saying is that if outside help is framed as something that makes his life easier, while he's still the boss--instead of an issue of ceding control or being bossed around--he might buy into it.

There came a time where my dad wasn't safe behind the wheel anymore.  Of course, there were early signs of diminished capacity, such as increasing confusion and disorientation, for a person who usually had no problem getting around.  On top of that, he had vision loss, which made driving downright dangerous.  Ultimately, my mom took over the driving, except perhaps for the shortest, simplest trips inside a gated community.  And you know what?  I think my dad warmed to the idea of having a personal chauffeur.  He could sit more comfortably in the car, nap on longer trips, and be delivered right to the front door, while my mom parked the car, saving him some steps.  Again this isn't framed so much as "taking away the keys of the car," but making things easier for him. 

[ForeverDad]

I remember an old couple in my younger years, nice as could be.  Riding with him was a bit scary, he had tremors in his foot and it was strange feeling the car surge all the time.  Then I moved away and in time he passed away.  His elderly wife had a few accidents, minor, but technically they were others' fault.  That she backed out in front of someone, oops, sorry, but they hit her and it was their fault because by then she was fully in her lane.  That sort.  I think a granddaughter made sure her license wasn't renewed and took her keys away.

Even if his license renewal isn't near, most vehicle registrations have to be renewed annually.  That's an excellent time for the staff to be advised in advance and see what they can do.  Also, his doctors may be advised so they can step in if they determine others' safety is at risk.

Road rage is a real concern these days, not to mention that when he does have an accident, which is becoming more predictable as time goes on, it may be far more than a fender bender and you, he and others may be injured or even killed.

Even the best of drivers have accidents.  I've often remarked to others that even if we avoid collisions 99% of the time, there always that nasty 1%...  Can you risk other people to suffer needlessly?  Ask DMV, police or other resources what can be done.

And if he does have an accident, even a minor one, don't hide it, be sure the police are called.  That may be the best opportunity to get action.

[JazzSinger]

P.S.

I had another thought.  You might try contacting your local senior center.  My guess is this sort of situation happens all the time.  They might give you advice, as well as tips on alternate transportation services.

Thanks, CC43.

He would never agree to doing anything differently.  He has to get extremely frightened, or worse, hurt someone before he stops driving. It’s sad and scary.

JazzSinger

[JazzSinger]

Hi again Jazz,

In the last years of my dad's life, he gradually lost his faculties, and he had all sorts of physical ailments, including vision and hearing loss.  Anyway, there were many times my mom couldn't talk sense into him--about driving, about following doctors' orders.  That's when she'd call me to ask me to talk some sense into him, because I was "the only person he'd listen to."  Maybe your son could fill that role?  His opinion might have more weight than yours, as there's less emotional baggage, and he's younger.  Honestly, there were a couple of times I arranged things for my dad for his own good, without consulting him.  As an example, he was accidentally buying stuff online and paying for subscriptions that he had no use for.  I just shut down that sort of thing, and he never complained about it because he didn't even know he had made those purchases.  Of course, my dad wouldn't have trusted my mom to touch his computers, but he trusted me.  I restored his tablet back to working order, which is what he wanted.  Then the deal was, if he wanted to do any sort of financial transaction, he'd call me, and I'd do it FOR him.  I think he liked having me as a "personal secretary," while for him, it was much easier to call me and have me do it, rather than attempt it himself!  I guess what I'm saying is that if outside help is framed as something that makes his life easier, while he's still the boss--instead of an issue of ceding control or being bossed around--he might buy into it.

There came a time where my dad wasn't safe behind the wheel anymore.  Of course, there were early signs of diminished capacity, such as increasing confusion and disorientation, for a person who usually had no problem getting around.  On top of that, he had vision loss, which made driving downright dangerous.  Ultimately, my mom took over the driving, except perhaps for the shortest, simplest trips inside a gated community.  And you know what?  I think my dad warmed to the idea of having a personal chauffeur.  He could sit more comfortably in the car, nap on longer trips, and be delivered right to the front door, while my mom parked the car, saving him some steps.  Again this isn't framed so much as "taking away the keys of the car," but making things easier for him. 

Thanks, ForeverDad.

My husband knows everything and he’s never wrong. Our only hope is that his license renewal is coming up in 2027.  He’s already nervous.  He only has one eye, and he has other issues with his vision. He shouldn’t be on the road. Hopefully, the DMV will intervene.

Jazz