The streams will cross today... standing by to see what happens

[formflier]

So, Psychologist and Biblical Counselor will be meeting in person today.  They have corresponded off an on for a while.

Practical goals

Is there anyway for secular and religious to work together to increase stability in my home.  (note... not at all bringing up "healing" or "fixing" my wife.)


There are several teaching points he made... .that I disagreed with (and BC kicked me out over) that she wants to fully understand.

I'm hopeful... .I'm anxious

I do think that I will be able to make decisions about next steps after this meeting.  I think there has been an appropriate amount of time that has passed to sort out if my wife's chosen path has increased or decreased stability in our home. 

I do think it is time to get a clear answer if BC is open to working with secular... .or not.  Note:  In my mind... .and unclear answer from him is (to me) and clear answer of no.

FF

[Verbena]

There is something about other people conferring with each other that feels wrong to me. Your wife is all about convincing others (your children, her family, whoever) that you are bad. For her, it's about "sides" and the appearance that she is a good mother. godly wife, etc. 

However, when push comes to shove she is going to do what she wants. No one is going to stop her from breaking an agreement not to trash you to your children, for example.

The real issue is that she has a serious mental illness that she doesn't recognize and isn't being treated for. Nothing will change until she gets help for that.

You can, and have, learned ways to deal with her better, but what's missing is that she is getting help for herself. 
Are you still planning on getting your kids in counseling ? That is the most important thing you could do for your family IMO.

[formflier]

Are you still planning on getting your kids in counseling ? That is the most important thing you could do for your family IMO.

Yes... .although exact details will be hammered out over the next few weeks in consultation with P.

Part of the impetus for P and BC meeting was this effort to go to family counseling.  My wife expressed that she had no interest in "secular" counseling, although if I insisted as head of household she would "obey" and go.

However, I've sorted things out in my mind such that a shift has taken place and I need to focus more on stability and healing for my kids rather than my wife's comfort, desires... .or healing.

Basically... .things got "so bad" with certain things they were being taught, that I knew I had to take some sort of action.

In my mind... .similar (but of different magnitude) to when my wife was out of control with physical punishment and I went to CPS.

In that case she was denying doing it... or that it was harmful.  In this case... there is no disagreement that she is doing/teaching these things... .but she is trying to frame them as "one off" events "just due to anger" but of little impact or importance to the kids.

FF

[formflier]

P texted me that she was "not impressed" and that meeting was over.  We're trying to figure out a time to meet tomorrow and debrief.

FF

[formflier]

No time for details... .will share more later.

Had session with P today about her consultation with BC.  P's opinion is far worse that she or I expected. 

His basic philosophy is so rooted in "man being head of household" that he believes if he can figure out what I did (ff) to "make" my wife paranoid... .he could fix her paranoia.

Sigh... .

So... he is not quite a enemy... but definitely a "net negative".

FF

[empath]

[sarcasm] Because we must have done or said something to make our spouses this way... .  [/sarcasm]

No wonder FFwife likes BC - blameshifting and flying monkeys with bibles.

I'm sorry; it's so disappointing to have a lack of support or basic understanding from the church and worse, to be seen as the 'problem'.

[Cat Familiar]

So... he is not quite a enemy... but definitely a "net negative".

FF, I think you need to rethink this. I think he is an enemy. Remember how he treated you in counseling... .

[Cat Familiar]

If not an enemy, he's narrow-minded, pigheaded, stubborn, arrogant, bullying, short-sighted, un-compassionate, self-referential, ignorant, obtuse, and those are all the polite words I can use.

[Verbena]

I thought it was already well established that the church counselor you and your wife went to was clueless and in over his head.  That's certainly how it appeared to me based on your description of him. I'm not surprised at all that your P said she wasn't impressed with him.  

Here's the thing.  This counselor doesn't know what you're dealing with.  He doesn't live with your wife and has no idea what is really going on in your home.  And if he did really know--if he could be a fly on the wall in your house for any amount of time--it would scare the crap out of him.

You're the head of your house and you're very concerned for the well-being of your kids.  If you want them to get in therapy--and I agree that they need to be--then do whatever is necessary to make that happen.  Getting your wife to agree to anything is pointless because she doesn't stick to agreements.  She's the reason they need therapy, the reason you see a P.  

I know that you saw the corporal punishment issue in the past as your wife crossing a line because it was abusive.  You took action on that.  Now it's become all too apparent that her behavior is emotionally abusive to your children, and you're trying to take action on that issue as well.  

Your P gets it.  Your BC doesn't.  I would steer clear of him and just do what you have to do to get your kids some help.  


 

[formflier]

If not an enemy, he's narrow-minded, pigheaded, stubborn, arrogant, bullying, short-sighted, un-compassionate, self-referential, ignorant, obtuse, and those are all the polite words I can use.

I'm a words guy... .apparently my P is too.  She said that when she left the meeting she felt... .odd... .sort of unclean.

She says the best single word she could use to sum up his attitude was "smug".

He did lots of non verbals to discredit her... .Never once called her Dr... .he used first name the entire time.  She referred to him properly... .as Pastor xyz.

FF

[formflier]

You're the head of your house and you're very concerned for the well-being of your kids.  If you want them to get in therapy--and I agree that they need to be--then do whatever is necessary to make that happen. 

This distills it down nicely. 

Next week P and I will "finalize" the way forward on family therapy.  There will be an attempt to "get my wife onboard"... .so "we can come together to protect our children's futures".

Even though the chance of FFwife really getting on board is low, I believe and P is insistent that we offer the chance and give her choices... .and respect those choices... .just as I expect my choices to be respected.

FF

[empath]

He did lots of non verbals to discredit her... .Never once called her Dr... .he used first name the entire time.  She referred to him properly... .as Pastor xyz.

That's one of ways that power is established, especially in church contexts. She was disrespected and subordinate to him; he didn't think of her as an equal and probably gave the impression of superiority.

Your wife and kids are being taught by these people.

[Cat Familiar]

FF, I know you're bending over backwards to keep the peace in your house. And I understand there have been much worse times in recent history.

Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I'd use the headship that she sometimes acknowledges as an opportunity to find a healthier church environment--one that fits your beliefs better. This one seems toxic from top to bottom.

You probably think that doing so would escalate the war with your wife and certainly that might be true. However, it seems that some part of her wants to defer to your authority and you are intermittently reinforcing that, which might account for some of the disrespect she shows to you.

I was really traumatized as a child by one of the churches my family attended after having gone to a very loving and inclusive church before we moved to a different area. As a result, I am not a Christian. Even as a young child, I noticed the hypocrisy of adults who pretended to be so nice at church, but were quite different people outside of it.

[formflier]

Your wife and kids are being taught by these people.

And to Cat Familiar... .

P has let me know to be "ready" so that when (not if) she gets mad at the church... .to be ready to move.

Honestly... .part of this makes me sad as I have formed a lot of relationships there that I value.

(not defending... but to give a more accurate view.  You guys have heard a lot about the counseling ministry)

The church is a multi-campus affair... .getting bigger too.

The "counseling" ministry is a distinct "wing" or department that is separate from say "children's ministry" or "adult small groups", sunday school... .evening morning worship.

For instance... .I've heard BC preach... .perhaps 3 times in 1.5 years.  Nothing at all I could point to in his sermon that I would pick at.  Perhaps a slightly more conservative tilt that I would prefer... .but well within "agree to disagree" type stuff.

Children's ministry is best organized and effective of any church I have ever attended... .and I've been to some good ones.

All that being said, I reluctantly think P is right... .and I need to be ready.

There IS a correlation between my wife's behavior and the "conservative status" of a church.  The more conservative... .the more she acts out.

P explains it like this.

My wife simply can't do close relationships.  Unless she commits to good therapy... .she has no chance for lasting improvement. 

So... .when her relationship with God get's closer... .that relationship is just like any other for my wife... .she will act out more... .more push away.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

P has let me know to be "ready" so that when (not if) she gets mad at the church... .to be ready to move.

The silver lining... .possibly being a move that is farther from her family.

[formflier]

The silver lining... .possibly being a move that is farther from her family.

Big picture:  The move close to her family was a disastrous decision. 

That being said... .I have complete RA that the house doesn't matter, the location, the job... .the (fill in the blank).

Yes... .they have an influence... .but are really minor players.

FF