The Vegetable Saga Continues

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So, my HwBPD has decided to fixate on my mother's cooking to justify his feelings of abandonment and rejection. He's a (selective) vegan, but when my mother (whom we are staying with) doesn't cook a vegan option for dinner OR she doesn't cook the vegetables exactly to his liking, he goes on about it for days, feeling hurt and rejected.

She is aware of his BPD and I've given her lots of tools to be able to handle it. She knows it's not about her, but she is a people pleaser, so this is particularly distressing for her.

This morning she came to me to let me know that she'd had a conversation with my H, while she was prepping to cook dinner. He asked her if she was going to be cooking cauliflower, and then he proceeded to try to tell her how to cook it. She said, "I can cut you some of your own so that you can cook it exactly the way you like it. It doesn't offend me." He said to her in an accusatory tone, "Oh, I see. That's how it is, then!" She knew what he was onto, so she gently said, "No, I just know you like your food cooked a certain way, so you're welcome to cook it the way you like it." He said he had to pick me up from work and would not have time, and so proceeded to leave her the instructions for cooking his cauliflower the way he wanted it.

He won't cook it himself, he doesn't want me to cook it, he wants my mother to cook it for him, but ONLY exactlyt he way he wants her to. How's that for controlling?

My mother asked me what she should do about the situation, because it made her feel unbelievably uncomfortable. I said that she should only do what she felt like doing, and not to get sucked in to his sphere of control. If she didn't feel like making him vegetables HIS way, then she didn't have to. He is an adult. I said that he would rail and retch, and try to make her the bad guy if she didn't adhere to his demands, but that she had to set boundaries that felt comfortable for her in her own home. It's HIS fault for being difficult, not hers.

Any other advice for my mom, or for how I should handle this ongoing saga over the stupid vegetables. I love vegetables, but this is making me never want to see a head of cauliflower again in my whole life! 

[WitzEndWife]

So, my HwBPD has decided to fixate on my mother's cooking to justify his feelings of abandonment and rejection. He's a (selective) vegan, but when my mother (whom we are staying with) doesn't cook a vegan option for dinner OR she doesn't cook the vegetables exactly to his liking, he goes on about it for days, feeling hurt and rejected.

She is aware of his BPD and I've given her lots of tools to be able to handle it. She knows it's not about her, but she is a people pleaser, so this is particularly distressing for her.

This morning she came to me to let me know that she'd had a conversation with my H, while she was prepping to cook dinner. He asked her if she was going to be cooking cauliflower, and then he proceeded to try to tell her how to cook it. She said, "I can cut you some of your own so that you can cook it exactly the way you like it. It doesn't offend me." He said to her in an accusatory tone, "Oh, I see. That's how it is, then!" She knew what he was onto, so she gently said, "No, I just know you like your food cooked a certain way, so you're welcome to cook it the way you like it." He said he had to pick me up from work and would not have time, and so proceeded to leave her the instructions for cooking his cauliflower the way he wanted it.

He won't cook it himself, he doesn't want me to cook it, he wants my mother to cook it for him, but ONLY exactlyt he way he wants her to. How's that for controlling?

My mother asked me what she should do about the situation, because it made her feel unbelievably uncomfortable. I said that she should only do what she felt like doing, and not to get sucked in to his sphere of control. If she didn't feel like making him vegetables HIS way, then she didn't have to. He is an adult. I said that he would rail and retch, and try to make her the bad guy if she didn't adhere to his demands, but that she had to set boundaries that felt comfortable for her in her own home. It's HIS fault for being difficult, not hers.

Any other advice for my mom, or for how I should handle this ongoing saga over the stupid vegetables. I love vegetables, but this is making me never want to see a head of cauliflower again in my whole life! 

[WifeOfProbableBP]

I can see how your mother would feel very uncomfortable being put in this situation. I feel like it would be better for you to be the one to bring it up to him, if you can find a way to broach the subject without making your mother sound like a snitch.
One time I told my BP husband that I was not going to talk to him for the rest of the day. I was at my parents' house. He wanted to be heard, so he showed up at my parents' house. My father would have been hospitable and let him in, but I told him that he was not to let my H in. Then I told my H, "My parents' would've gladly let you in the house, but I have instructed them not to under any circumstances." That way my parents' weren't put in an awkward situation.

[Tattered Heart]

I think the conversation you had with your mom was a good conversation. Since your mom is frequently a focus of you H's complaints, it's important that your mom feels like she can set boundaries with him and have a voice of her own. It also prevents a Karpman triangle sitaution where you are always trying to rescue either your H from your mom or your mom from your H. Staying neutral between them is key. When he has issue with your mom, guide him to talking to your mom. When your mom has issue with your H, guide her to talk directly H.

I don't remember. Is your dad in the house also? If a mediator is needed, perhaps your dad could help in those discussions.

[WitzEndWife]

My dad is really passive, so I don't think he's a good mediator in this situation. I think my mom feels okay about setting boundaries.

Healthy88 - that was a really good point about the B12. He sometimes caves and eats cheese, and, every once in a while will eat seafood, but he's also been starving himself a lot (he's got very disordered eating habits overall). When he's home with my parents during the day, he will not leave the bedroom. He won't eat or drink. He just lies in bed all day long. I'm sure that the lack of exercise and poor nutritional habits aren't helping anything.

Being around him just feels like being engulfed in a black cloud of doom right now. It's extremely unpleasant for everyone.

[Grey Kitty]

The problem isn't the cauliflower. You know this. I think your mom knows this too. If it was, the offer to let him cook it how he likes it would solve the problem, and it didn't.

The problem is that he goes on about it for days.

You and your mother can enforce boundaries about how he talks to you or her. (Not in a big way, like kicking him out, in a small way, like ending a conversation that turns into a tirade.)

Err... .at least for you and your mom, his bad behavior is the problem you have to deal with.

His problem is feelings of abandonment, depression, worthlessness, etc. But you cannot deal with that for him; you have to deal with his acting out that is driven by it.

[isilme]

I think a big thing is to make sure your mom knows it's not about her.  It's not about her cooking.  That's just the chosen focus of a large amount of self-loathing your H cannot internalize.  Like an animal in a trap snarling at the person trying to free it, all he knows is that he hurts, and he has to lash out to feel anything was done about it. 

I find it kind of interesting that your H allows your parents to see him this dysregulated.  In my experience, my H does not even like HIS parents to see him freak out.  It's happened, but usually, he manages to save the BIG freak outs, the lasting visible symptoms of depression and self-hated for home, just us.  I don't know how he'd deal if I had any sort of family and he was expected to stay with them for any time.  When he's ever been mad in public, he turns stoney to me, likes to pinch me hard because he knows he can't yell, and quietly "yells" at me.  I have been too embarrassed to cause a scene, and do my best to just calm things down until he snaps out of it, or we can get home. 

It sounds like your H is either in such a bad place he doesn't care who sees him act irrationally, and does not feel a need to hide it, or that he has taken what I think of as the BPD bubble that encompasses you as part of him, and has enveloped your parents in it, too.  If that makes sense.  I think the people who see the most irrational behavior are in the bubble.  Everyone else has to be convinced he's just dandy, fine, a wonderful guy, whose only problems come from a less than perfect spouse or in-laws. 

I think your mom will probably need to be comfortable cooking however she likes, and insisting if he wants food a certain way, as a grown man he is welcome to cook it himself.  He is also welcome to not eat, or to take over cooking for the whole household since he has not other pursuits.  It'd be good if he WOULD take over.  He'd feel better about himself for actually DOING something each day.   

Regarding the sitting in bed all day - that's bad.  He's getting no vitamin D, no regulation in his schedule, wallowing, no physical activity, and all of that is bad for BPD.  It's bad, period, for anyone, but BPD seems to improve the most with a steady day/night schedule, regular outside interactions, things to accomplish each day, even small things.  Your H may not be ready for these steps, and I know it's a nightmare trying to encourage while not having him get balky just to not do what you want him to do.  I'm sorry.  I know time can help change some things, and it's great your parents are supportive of you in this. 

[WitzEndWife]

isilme - I think you're right about the bubble. Interestingly, it's his OWN family who never sees the "bad" side of him. He takes everything out on me and my parents, and treats his family like gold. So, I'm sure, if we ever made our problems known, his family would think that WE were the bad ones.

He has made dinner for the family a couple of times, and everyone always made sure to heap EXTRA praise on him for doing so. The encouragement wasn't enough, I guess, for him to do it more regularly, but I think he's so deep into his depression right now, it's tough for him.

I agree wholeheartedly about the routine, Vit D, nutrition, exercise, etc. He does do much better when he has something to do. However, I've kind of washed my hands of everything at the moment, in the interest of just living my own life and letting him fail on his own. If he feels terrible and miserable, he's got to do something to get himself out of it. He can't be dependent on me. I feel like once he's wallowed long enough, he'll get tired of it eventually.

[isilme]

He can't be dependent on me. I feel like once he's wallowed long enough, he'll get tired of it eventually.

Totally agree.  I hope this is just the darkest before the dawn for all of you, and that your parents as cool and understanding as they seem to be, can hold out with you a bit longer. 

Ever read the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books for kids?  They are about a lady who is called on to solve childhood problems when the parents can't figure out how to stop their children from acting out.  Like one girl who refused to bathe... .Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle told the parents to stop trying to make her bathe, and when she had about 1/8-1/4 inch of dirt on her, to plant radish seeds in it.  After a while, the seeds sprouted, it freaked the girl out, and she never let herself get filthy again.  The secret to the solution was to 1) stop mentioning the problem and giving it and the problem maker attention about it and 2) let them make themselves so uncomfortable they change their ways.

Hoping you don't have to plant radish seeds.   

[WitzEndWife]

LOL! I hope I don't have to plant radish seeds! My mother gives me the daily report when he is home. Today he hasn't come out of his room, except to use the bathroom. I can't imagine living every day of the week inside the confines of a small bedroom. The idea makes me feel claustrophobic!

I'm sure he's in there, imagining that he HAS to stay in his room, due to the "hostile" situation outside of it with my "horrible," vegetable-overcooking parents.

Ugh, whatever. I've planned brunch with a friend tomorrow, and I'm going to generally just go about doing things that I enjoy, and that make me happy. When he's good and done wallowing, he can join me.