Not sure where to go from here...

[Lalathegreat]

After a day of pleasant texting  I got a phone call from pwBPD yesterday late evening as I was frantically running some important last minuteerrands. He was asking where I had placed a pile of his things when I did some straightening this weekend. I told him where I had placed these things. He continued to tell me how he can't have me interfering with his systems because these things are hard for him. I apologize. He dramatically sighs in frustration and keeps telling me that he can't have this stuff happening. I validate and tell him it won't happen again. He sighs again and accused me of being defensive. At this point I have arrived at the store. I apologize again, tell him I will talk to him later and hang up. I then put my phone in airplane mode so that I can grocery shop in peace.

When I leave the store I have several texts accusing me of disturbing his peace by blocking the conversation. That he was just asking for me to teach him another way. He tells me he is going to bed and to be well. They weren't mean texts, but they're frustratinging to me. He gets in these loops and when I attempt to disengage the accusation always is that I am refusing to communicate and that is causing the problem. And that is always what has made it hard for me to leave.

I send a text telling him that I don't know how to have these conversations.That I don't want him to feel that I am dismissing him or that I don't care.  That I feel everything I say adds to the frustration and that I don't want to fight anymore. I wish him a goodnight and put my phone in airplane mode for the night.

Woke up this morning to a bunch of texts from last night stating that the only person fighting is me. That I put everything on everyone else. To leave him alone. Then he accuses me of blocking his calls, an action he doesn't take kindly to after the rest of the crap I threw down. That helping him this weekend doesn't mean that I get to bully him.

I don't even know how to respond or if I should. Because I'm at the end of my rope with this stuff. But I also feel like I didn't communicate my boundary effectively before going silent. I didn't tell him I couldn't continue our phone call because I needed to buy lunch supplies for my kids lunches the next day. Didn't explain that I was needing to put down a boundary regarding him assigning me motives, telling me my own feelings, or raising his voice. I did just sort of cut and run out of frustration and hopelessness.

So does any good come this morning from attempting to say any of that? Because I really am not anxious to engage in another altercation, but I also don't want him to have another example of how I fail to communicate.

[formflier]

I don't even know how to respond or if I should. 

Do NOT respond directly to this.  It will lead to JADE and further circular argument.

If you are tired of this... .ignore it.  Feel free to carry on with other conversation via text, although generally... .I would limit it.  He needs to learn to soothe himself.

At some point I would send him a text like this.

"Hey... .I'm preoccupied with some pressing work issues.  (What is your job?)  It's important to me that you feel heard.  I can stop by tomorrow night at 7pm.

more later

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Here's what happened... .at a higher level... .

He was being critical or trying to get you into a circular argument. It wasn't that bad, but you ran out of time for it when you go to the store.

I apologize again, tell him I will talk to him later and hang up. I then put my phone in airplane mode so that I can grocery shop in peace.

You enforced a boundary. (bolded)

The point of the boundary is to protect you from the consequences of his actions.

*IF* he had been respectful of you, he would not have tried to call or text at that point. He wasn't respectful. Instead... .

When I leave the store I have several texts accusing me of ... .

Yup. You enforced a boundary against him. Nope, he didn't like it. Guess what. He's never going to like it. He wanted to keep you in that circular argument. You didn't let him. Don't expect him to like it. Don't expect him to agree.

And don't let him bait you back into engaging with all these accusations!

If you only enforce the boundaries he likes and only do it in ways he likes, guess what... .you have no boundaries.

[Lalathegreat]

Thanks, I feel a lot better reading your replies. I felt so totally justified last night in a way that I never have before, but the tantrum I woke up to had me questioning.

He called first thing this morning and I didn't answer because I KNEW it would end in an argument. He followed up with a text telling me that he just wanted to say good morning and asking if I want him to stop contacting me. (Black or white thinking much?) I replied stating that I didn't know how to talk to him right now because I was feeling defensive. Probably not the best thing to say, but it was honest. He responded by stating that turning off my phone was not ok with him and that if I want to talk I can contact him. He will not "bother me" again until then. This is not an uncommon dynamic - he wants ME to be the one to choose HIM. Constantly. I don't know if that's a BPD "reassurance of my committment" thing or just a MY pwBPD thing.

And once again I am just so tired and at my wit's end and completely uncertain as to how to proceed. I do not want to reengage into this circular argument. Every one of these starts one place (it doesn't seem to matter where, it could be literally ANYTHING) and ends with the accusations of how poorly I communicate and resolve issues.  But walking away seems too painful to contemplate too. I sat down with some paper in an effort to find some clarity and I wrote out a list of pros and cons for attempting to salvage this relationship. My cons list spanned 2 pages. My pros list had 4 things on it that essentially summed up my physical attraction, the physical connection that hasn't existed in a consistent way in months, my longing for times gone by, and my relationship with his sweet son who is also such a victim in all of this.

A huge part of me doesn't even know why I'm bothering to ask for input on this, but if I were to attempt to reopen communication - any thoughts on how to do that without jumping right into the argument that started this stalemate in the first place?

[formflier]

Stop being "honest" with him.  Start being "wise".

him:  you shut off your phone... .blather blather... .

you:  I'm preoccupied with a work project at the moment.  I'll try to text you around noon... .thanks for understanding.

Nothing else...


When you tell him that you "don't know how to talk to him... ."... .he understands he is "getting to you"... .it is FEEDING the DYSFUNCTION.

Less is more... . 

FF

[Lalathegreat]

Any way to undo that damage at this point? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to reengage in a way that doesn't take away from the boundary I'm trying to hold, and this morning I'm sad and sitting on my hands to not just text how sorry I am.

[AllNightLong]

Any way to undo that damage at this point? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to reengage in a way that doesn't take away from the boundary I'm trying to hold, and this morning I'm sad and sitting on my hands to not just text how sorry I am.

Do you wanna text him you are sorry cause you are or because it's the Easy thing to do and to calm your own feelings?

I'm recognice a lot in what you are writing and just wanna know how you think about the mentioned part.

I'm feeling for you cause it's a very unpleasent situation to be in.

[PeteWitsend]

Enforcing boundaries is tough, but necessary.

Though It often - at least in my case - leads to more issues down the line when my wife/pwBPD realizes I'm pulling back or not engaging with her in the manner she wants, and then resorts to more drastic measures to get a reaction.  but at least the boundaries keep things on the back burner so I can function when I need to.

I do feel some measure of guilt when I tell her, "I'm not upset, I understand your position and don't agree with it.  I'm not mad, but I'm going to sit here and finish reading/watching movie and we can talk again later." but then hear her sitting in bed sobbing (loud enough for me to hear of course).

That's when the self doubt creeps in... .is it me?  am I actually being cruel?  Should I swallow my pride and go take responsibility for upsetting her?  

Not to threadjack, (edit: sorry for the threadjack) but wHere I'm at right now:  I've done this too many times in the 4 years we've been married.  I realize now its not going to ever get better as she has written off all personal therapy as "useless validation."  and though she does have some moments of self reflection and honesty where she will apologize and tell me she doesn't know why she is acting the way she is, she later denies them.  and she can go back to the well of personal slights and insults I supposedly inflicted on here anytime.

now my own self-reflection, reading this site and writing down how fights start helps me keep my perspective on who is the one escalating them & what triggered them.  I've told myself I'm doing it for our boys, and I HAVE to do it for our boys, but the evidence mounting from what I've read seems clear that staying together for the kids' sake is not actually productive... .the fighting hurts them worse than joint custody would.

[formflier]

Don't worry about undoing damage. 

DO NOT text sorry... .just move on with your life.

In a day or two, if you want to do something with him... .ask.

Do the r/s on your terms... .or don't do it at all.  That is best for you... .and for the r/s.

FF

[Lalathegreat]

All night long - I think it's a little column A and a little column B. I reread several of his texts and when not feeling so frustrated in the moment I am more clearly able to see how hard he was trying to communicate meaningfully. I am sorry that I didn't respond differently to those. But on the other hand, i am driven to anxiety so quickly in these circular arguments because of how quickly and violently they escalate, and  I have so many instances that I can point to where I was verbally abused because I didn't disengage. So there is a part of me that recognizes why what I did was in my own best interest and isn't sorry for it.

None of the above doesn't mean that I'm not sad today, and feeling empty and missing of something. And in that way texting "I'm sorry" would be more just a means of reopening communication.

Formflier - haven't done it, and I won't. Thank you for being clear headed when I cannot. I need to decide exactly what (if anything) I need this relationship to be before attempting any further contact. I wish it were easier.

[Lalathegreat]

And Petewitsend, thank you for your support and thread "hijack" -  insightful and good advice!

[formflier]

None of the above doesn't mean that I'm not sad today, and feeling empty and missing of something. And in that way texting "I'm sorry" would be more just a means of reopening communication.
 

Very insightful.

This is where SELF CARE is critical.  Many of us (me included) depended way too much on others to validate and give us the emotional care that we needed.

It felt really really  REALLY good to us when they are love bombing and letting us know we are the best thing ever.

Somewhere in the mix we pulled back from being responsible for our own feelings... .while at the same time taking responsibility for other peoples feelings (when we shouldn't).

Seeing it is a critical first step. 

As you have figured out... .seeing it... .and pushing through it are two totally different things. 

Hang in there!  You can do it.

When you feel ready to reach out to him... .go for it.  Don't say you are sorry... .  If he asks... be authentic... ."I was really sad... and needed to care for myself... "  (Don't blame him... .just be honest about your feelings and your actions... .leave him out of it)

FF

[Grey Kitty]

A huge part of me doesn't even know why I'm bothering to ask for input on this, but if I were to attempt to reopen communication - any thoughts on how to do that without jumping right into the argument that started this stalemate in the first place?

I don't recommend any apologies for enforcing a boundary.

I don't recommend diving back head-first into whatever the conflict was about that was bugging him last time.

If you want to reach out, I'd suggest something positive and present if you want to reach out. "Good Morning" "How are you" "I've missed you" would be a few possibilities. If you are feeling a bit more vulnerable, something like "I'm really tired of fighting with you. Can we just do something fun like _____?"

And if you are feeling more afraid or anxious than caring or something, don't do it now; wait until you really feel like reaching out.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Greetings. I'm just reading your posts, and I understand the frustration you probably feel trying to work things out, and make it out unharmed.  I think of it as "lost in translation" when I find similar landmines in my relationship with my wife.  We might both be trying to communicate, but, translating her actions and words into what it means to me, loses the underlying meaning from my wife.  Then, when I say something, or do something that seems normal (for me it's often like reciprocation, or waiting for her to reciprocate something I did or said) it comes across to her as a change in behavior, she then jumps to conclusions, assumes I'm mad, etc.  Before I knew it I was lost in the rapids far downstream. 

I understand how hurtful it can be trying to translate a normal relationship rule into a BPD influenced relationship.  A healthy person could tell another healthy person that s/he is at the store, and will call tomorrow and discuss an issue again.  And both healthy people would be fine with that.  Those rules don't apply to a disordered person.

Not that I advise this, but, where I ended up is in a non-emotional state.  I mean well, and I've gotten some good coping skills to keep me from getting involved in any form of fighting, but, in my case, I simply detached.  I described it (to her even) that I've moved outside of her artillery range.  I read on other support groups to use a "gray rock" response to BPD flair-ups.  My gray rock just got thicker and thicker until there's nothing she can reach.  I'm not sure if that's a boundary, or a chasm. 

Best wishes sorting things out.  I'll support the other people here saying to keep going with self-care, keep your boundaries without apology.  Keep checking in here, it's nice to get support from those who understand a little bit more.