What tools/skills haven't worked so well for you?—let's discuss

[wendydarling]

Hi Parenting members  

Many of us come to this board in various forms of distress. We may be dealing with loved ones who are in crisis, depressed and angry; our children may be overstepping boundaries or cutting off contact altogether; they may be expressing violence and/or suicidal ideation. The struggles of our loved ones with BPD can create a lot of stress for us parents and our family members.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what we've been doing that doesn't seem to be working.

Please share the following:

• What tools/skills have you tried that have been unsuccessful?
• Why do you think they haven't helped?

Our goal is to get a conversation going that will shed light on some of the challenges of using the tools that are offered on the site. We hope the discussion will impart helpful tips, information, and understanding that will be effective and supportive going forward.

We look forward to your participation in this discussion!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi

I'm in with my first problem! 

Recently, I've noticed that my BPDs26 is calling me to vent about his problems in work. He starts early and so the call comes in at the start of my day which is always pretty busy and my time is limited.

I let him vent and validate his feelings but he's so highly emotional he can't hear me. The conversation always ends with a mutual acceptance that he just needed to vent "sorry to vent Mum, I just needed to blow and I realise you're not my shrink or anything but this helps me".

Meanwhile, my younger son who is quite often with me gets very frustrated and resents his older brother.

I'd say my BPDs has done this about five times in the last couple of months. I believe that these problems have helped him understand that he needs to seek treatment (first appointment yesterday - yay!). 

I've got two concerns. One being that I fear he's using me as a self-soothing tool. ?

The other is that I'm not remembering to use phrases like these:

What do you think can be done?
How would you like this to be different?
What do you think might work?
What do you think caused the problem?

I believe that by me asking him to try and think through the problem he'd get even more agitated. By me asking a question like this, he's not getting what he wants and that's just to vent.

Very often his problem is of his own making and his extreme reaction to someone because he gets frustrated by their behaviour. The last time my BPDs chose not to turn up for work to get his boss "back". I'd made the situation worse by mentioning the loss of money. I unintentionally turned it around by asking my BPDs26 if he'd clean the bathroom as he was going to be home all day. He grabbed the cleaning stuff, went upstairs, immediately came downstairs and went to work without saying goodbye. His day ended up being a good day.

Any problems that my BPDs26 has after work he uses MJ to self-soothe.  This drives me mad  .  I can't tell you how much I hate his use of MJ and it makes me very sad. He keeps to my boundary: no smoking at the house.

 

[Mamadukes]

I'm pretty new to all of this, but I want to say a quick hello and THANKS to Lollypop for posting. Super-relevant for me (also BPDs26), though my son's not working these days. And unfortunately, he "self soothes" (not every day) with cocaine instead of MJ. I hate this, of course, and I hear your frustration!

We've been through the gamut of treatment over the years, and I just feel like this diagnosis almost provides a reset. Whole new understanding of the ballgame, if you will.

I'm not gonna weigh in on tools that haven't worked so well... .yet. I'm still at the stage of appreciating how helpful and validating finally having this diagnosis is (for me), and I'm just beginning the arduous process of studying and understanding things much better, and learning all about the tools and strategies that can be helpful.

Big thanks to everyone who posts on this message board. I look forward to reading much much more. Thanks to Wendydarling for starting a new thread -- I got an email notice, and that got me to finally tap in, which I've been meaning to do.

Have a gentle, quiet day everybody. 

[Alimomma]

I'm very new to this site and should really try to utilize it more. I think trying to navigate from my phone makes it more cumbersome.

I have an undiagnosed BPD son who is 28. My own therapist suggested several books on BP/NP disorders and it was like someone had followed me (the Caretaker), my son, and my husband around for years. I still consider myself new into therapy (4 months), but already so many lights have gone off for me. I'm working on my relationship with both of them, but mostly with myself. I feel so much better, yet I know I have a long way to go.

My biggest hurdle right now is with my BP done. For the first time ever I have been able to stand up for myself and tell him I'm not taking his abuse anymore. He lost custody of his 5 yr old son for his own behaviors. I'm allowed visitation with my grandson, but my son can't know or he'll demand to see him. He is only allowed supervised visits and the court chose (wisely) not to allow me to do that as it was pointed out my son would try to bully me into allowing him contact. However, he did find out I had a recent visit with my grandson and he flipped out on me. He also tried to bully me into setting up his visits with his son and I told him he had to do it. I also said I would NOT be giving my grandson a birthday party this year because it wouldn't be right for me to do that and not be able to include my son - he flipped and "disowned me" for being a cold heartless person. I told him I was going to block all communication until he could learn to treat me better. It was hard for me to do, and a first, but a huge step for me. I'm learning that no one deserves to treat me that way. I've not heard from him for a week, but it feels good to have boundaries and say, "you're not going to treat me this way anymore!"

I worry about his state of mind. I feel he's on the edge. He's lost "everything" - his license, his car, his apt., his belongings, his son... .and now his mom.
He doesn't hold a job and does artwork when he can. He uses drugs of all kinds. He's a handsome and smart man, but I notice even his hygiene is slipping. I'm 53 yrs old and have put up with his abusive BPD behavior for too long. He has no insurance and refuses to think there is anything wrong with himself ---> "it's everyone else" who is "out to get him."

Any onsite or ideas on how to be available to him as a mother, but keeping strong boundaries in place?
Thank you!

[Ive]

Hello and thanks for this site. I'm new in understanding my 29 year old sons mental illness. His undiagnosed BPD is compounded with PTSD as he is a veteran. I experience lots of guilt , fear , and powerlessness in trying to help him . He was medically boarded out of military due to PTSD but is not receiving proper treatment. The other night I dreamt that he was in great distress and I was very close to him but was not able to help or comfort him. I was only able to watch his suffering. That is my reality. Thanks again for sharing your stories .
Ive

[Mamadukes]

Wow, interesting -- BPD is historically underdiagnosed in males, and yet we've just had four posts in a row about our sons. I really appreciate this. My young adult BP son has been dismayed by the shortage of men in groups and forums.

I am not real clear about protocol and best practices on this forum, but man I feel like I want to have a conversation with each of you! Ive, your situation sounds heart wrenching.

Aside from learning everything I can these days about BPD by reading books, web articles and forums, I'm also kind of zeroing in on my son's substance dependence these days... .but from the perspective of MY "relationship" to it, and MY limits. He's going to have to find his own way to quit, in his own time, just as he has to come to terms with committing to BPD treatment on his own. So for now I am slowly but surely experimenting and tweaking MY limits in relation to his drug use.

One tool I am learning about is SET-UP, which seems very practical and useful in relation to so many problems and issues. Also, going slow, in general. And I love this: Keep things cool and calm. Appreciation is normal. Tone it down. Disagreement is normal. Tone it down, too. ("Family Guidelines," from somewhere on this site I think).

Thanks again everybody for sharing. This community can be another lifeline for us, for sure.

[Rosina]

Good Morning from Australia... .I recently found a great counselor who has helped me realize that what is happening between myself and BPD38 is psychological abuse. I have been journaling and not responding to break that cycle... it's early days but I believe that my personal safety is what comes first. After decades of over-responding, tears, grief and guilt, I am on the road to self-discovery and recovery.

[UKMum]

I feel too ill to write very much. I know we all are, but I feel in a desperate situation. I have suffered chronically for 16 years with a now 30 year old daughter, she has driven everyone away with her vile behavior, there is only myself, son and aunt who have stood by her through everything [including her stabbing a former partner when she was 21]... .when she realized we were all at breaking point and giving up, I 1000% believe she conceived a child to suck us all back in [within hours of finding out she was pregnant, she said to me "you wont be able to p*** me off now or I wont let you see the baby"... .baby's father threw her out at 5 months pregnant... .whilst I accept she was really abusive to him, he should NEVER have got her pregnant. let alone do nothing to protect his child who is now at her mercy... .I am involved in a legal battle with her now, I am so bonded with the little boy who is 3 [only God has got us this far] she continually uses him as a weapon to punish me... .I am living through yet another nervous breakdown as I am ill with grief that I cannot protect him against her cruelty... .I would really appreciate prayers, as at this moment in time I think it is only divine intervention that can help me as the authorities in the UK are totally ignorant to this illness, she has lied and manipulated the authorities in the most obscene way, I am trying to have faith in 'CAFCASS' but the experience I have had so far with social services is scary. It does offer me some comfort to read other peoples stories as it helps me to accept that it is NOT ME that is the problem... .sincere apologies that this is such a negative first post.

[tristesse]

Hi all,
I am not at all new to this site, been around for a few years now, and I hope that many of you will go back  to beginning story and follow my journey. It becomes evident when the tools and skills began to work for me, or more precise, when I began understand them and use them correctly.
   My biggest struggle has been boundaries, I still have difficulty enforcing them, primarily to avoid the fallout that is sure to come. I know the importance of boundaries, I know the importance of enforcing the boundaries, I just struggle with the strength it takes to be that enforcer. Sometimes I feel like it is easier to just give in, and then that is inevitably what happens.
    I have  learned to use the other tools and skills, most effectively... .but boundaries are my weakness, and my struggle. I am happy to have any and all advice on this issue, and will happily weigh in on anybody else's struggle with the tools and skills.
 

[Lollypop]

Hi

Thanks so much for responding to my problem.

My BPDs has been a longterm drug user, particularly opiates. He's settled on weed with one diazepam pill to help him sleep. To be perfectly honest, I believe the diazepam is more likely to be a psychological addiction as he bought them off the internet and the content of them is unknown. He reduced about 10 weeks ago and says he still feels the "serious" withdrawal. I've always hated the drugs. They've not been recreational but self-harming. I have no problem with somebody having a joint at the weekend and see it as little different to me having a large glass of crisp white wine (can you hear me LOL!).  But this isn't what he has done in the past. It's easy to slip back, very easy for somebody with addictive tendencies which he very clearly has.

I have a younger son at home, now 16. It was always very easy to set a boundary of "no drugs" in the house. I had a good reason. My BPDs has abided by this, say maybe the odd party when we've been away on holiday. He's respectful of our space in this way. It has helped that he'd be moritified to strike one up in front of us but it easier in himself to come in high. He spent years, literally, waiting outside for hours until he knew we were in bed before he came in. It was an incredibly stressful life for him, I can see that now, and he blames us a lot for our strictness and not being "cool" parents.

So yes, this boundary is firm. I've got stronger with my limits and can actually laugh as he resists in his reluctance. Say, paying rent! It took him 6-7 weeks where we'd do a merry old dance but I stuck firm. He has to make a contribution to his living costs (it's a small contribution that he can very easily afford).

The biggy for me is him taking personal responsibility for himself. He's been like Peter Pan. Contradictory in not wanting to grow up but envious of his peers who get on with their lives. I finally realised I had to be the parent he needs; to be assertive but loving. I'm clearly enabling and I live with this every day. I handle it because he makes progress, if he wasn't could I throw him out?  Yes, actually - 26 is an adult and I'm going to die one day.  He has to find a way to live independently, happy or not, drug free or not, in therapy or not. It's my job to get him out as good as I can get.

I know I say this a lot. For him to be behave like an adult he has to be treated like one. It's been hard as he just hasn't had the skillset he needs to be one. Neither have I, I recognise that I've been a big part of the problem struggling with my innate need to fix.

So I guess my biggest problem is distancing him from me. It'll help when he's moved out and also when he's got support with treatment.

Detaching isn't a problem. It's like I don't feel anything any more. I love him, I even like him now but if he said tomorrow "I'm moving to Australia" I'd say "OK, when do you leave?".  I've got my own life, I looked externally to fill the chaos/drama/traumatic space that he filled. I'm done with all that and I say "no more".

I use DEARMAN. I love this actually. I found a very good scenario that helped me better understand how to use it on the internet. I got my BPD to agree to paying rent through this.

SET works for me when texting.  Getting the informal language right is difficult, to get it sound like I really mean it and not working from a script. I use SET when he vents and it gives me something to say other than just letting him rip. I think I may need to try using DEAR instead.

So addiction problems.  Biggy.  

  MARMADUKES
How do you cope and manage with the drug use?

Have you ever managed to set a boundary and keep it?  As LBJ said to me once "6 feet thick concrete boundaries"!  

  TRISTESSE, UKMUM, JELLIBEANS, ALIMOMMA
What sort of technique, if any, do you use when setting the boundary?

Isn't it just great to have this opportunity to discuss like this?  

Thanks everybody.

Hugs to each and every one of you.

LP

[livednlearned]

Hi all!

My BPD loved one is my partner's D19. She is diagnosed bipolar with psychotic depression, but has 8 out of 9 criteria for BPD. My S15 was considered at-risk (his dad is BPD) but with the help of the skills and a lot of therapy plus medication, is managing better, slowly but surely.

Lollypop, you could be describing D19:

Recently, I've noticed that my BPDs26 is calling me to vent about his problems in work. He starts early and so the call comes in at the start of my day which is always pretty busy and my time is limited.

I let him vent and validate his feelings but he's so highly emotional he can't hear me. The conversation always ends with a mutual acceptance that he just needed to vent "sorry to vent Mum, I just needed to blow and I realise you're not my shrink or anything but this helps me".

Except in our case, D19 does not call or text me to vent, she does this with her dad. I am more like your younger son, managing my irritability about the frequency and timing and duration of the calls.

Do you have the kind of relationship with your son where you can (together) discuss boundaries together, and then agree to implement them in advance?

SO did something like this with D19. She would call him at any hour of the day/night and he felt he had to drop everything. Often, she had (literally) nothing to say, would just keep him on the phone and hold him there. Meanwhile, his heart would be racing because he was always afraid she was in crisis.

He waited until there was a time when they were together in person (and she was emotionally regulated and feeling competent about herself) and then asked her if there was a way they could plan times to talk when he could be more present, that things were picking up at work. She agreed to text and make arrangements to talk in advance.

This helped him set boundaries around the calls at work, which didn't solve the problem of the calls altogether.

SO is trying to find the strength to set a boundary on the length of the calls. Right now, it takes him roughly 15 minutes just to end the call   Last week he started to use his commute to call her back. Or, if she texts him during the night, he will call her first thing in the morning (she's usually asleep). He also stopped advising her or suggesting anything. After I made an observation that validation seems to sometimes emotionally arouse D19, he has rolled back on the validation a bunch, and the jury is still out on whether that is having an effect one way or the other.

The difference with D19 is that she does not always call to vent. I think she would call and just have the phone on to feel connected if that weren't so strange for SO 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[puppyA]

Hello, I'm very new on this site. I'm very happy to have found this support resource. I can identify with EVERYTHING I've read so far... .and I will share more later. My son is soon to be 18 and I feel like I'm living a nightmare. I feel for each and every one of you.

Thank you for this avenue to share.
I will write more as soon as I'm able to (on survival mode--dealing with constant crises lately).

[jellibeans]

Hey Lollypop

I am not sure I understand what you mean by Technique for setting boundaries... .right now our daughter is in sober home. Last night she relapsed and she is homeless for the time being. She has the opportunity to return to her sober home Saturday as long as she sober and tests neg for drugs and alcohol. Our boundary is that we will not rescue her and her decision to use has consequences and that is homelessness. there is no technique for this. She is in a town 5 hour drive from us so it is pretty easy not to be there to help her. Maybe that is key ... .setting a boundary that you can stick to and setting yourself up to succeed. We could have put her in a sober home in town but that would have been a nightmare for sure. So depending on what your boundary is you need to make sure you can really hold it.

 My dd19 was kicked out of rehab last week for being aggressive with other clients. We did not bring her home like she would have liked. We did offer the sober home. My daughter relapsed hard 6 weeks ago on heroin. Her friend overdosed and almost died. The way I see it she is slowly killing herself and we will not help her to do that. One member here told me something that really stuck... ."it is not in my power to control the outcome, I can only provide opportunities" That is what we continue to do for my dd19 hoping one day she will decide that living sober is a lot better. I do not think you can be an addict and be happy... .they have to decide... .do they want to use or be happy.

[Lollypop]

Hi jellibeans

I am not sure I understand what you mean by Technique for setting boundaries... .

I'm thinking of the preparations we go through emotionally and practically. Techniques maybe isn't such a good description.

For me, it's about key priorities and pushing the small stuff to limits or even letting some stuff go. It's hard to work out what boundaries you've got. Personally, there's very few but they're big.

So boundaries, because they are critical, are thought about carefully because you definitely know that you have to have the strength to see them through whatever the consequences.

So once I've decided my boundary I then need to work out how I'm going to be able to maintain it. This will be a struggle for me and goes against everything I feel. Like a contradiction between knowing and feeling what's right. What  steps can I make to help me maintain the boundary. Watching for the warning signs but staying mindful. Avoiding trigger people so they're not influencing me. I've found that me husband and I feed off each other building our fears, so communication and mindfulness are part of my approach (one of us needs to be strong as the other weakens). Friends maybe a problem too, they don't understand and say unhelpful things. We need a support mechanism in place when the stuff hits the fan.

You're experience has helped you keep your boundary. You're absolutely right. Until they get to the point that they are so uncomfortable, that they're ready, they won't choose to change. I've heard it takes 5 attempts to get clean, I don't know if that's true. You're amazing with your strength and love, with each step she makes brings her closer to making that decision for herself. No addict likes their life - they need us to be there for them but in a positive way. I'm working on it.

Let us know how you get on and I hope this time, is the time for her.

LP

[es1113]

I am very new to thus, and frankly I have a lot of confusion as to how to use this site, my 18 year old daughter was only recently told BPD, we've never heard of it after all of her years in therapy, which really infuriates me!she abuses myself the most(mom)she goes off the deep end when her ex and her talk about getting back together, it ended again, she got a great new job, I took her for a new wardrobe etc. it's day 4of her job, I'll bet she didn't show up, I try to help her when appropriate, I've backed off a lot,it isn't working, just last night, after having a great day painting together, his name came up,and she went hysterical, she tried fir her keys to leave and crash her car, she always threatens death, I can't handle it, we physically fought over the keys, that's the first time she has it me, I suffer from chronic pain and a torn rotator cuff, she didn't care, I was just called by the Police, she checked herself into the ER, thank god, it's emotional abuse, I will not go to the hospital this time, this will be hard, I've always go to bail her out, she has to take responsibility for her choices, I hope the courts will mandate some things, half way house, mandatory drug tests, and regulate her med's, she will be most likely transfer to a mental Heath inpatient hospital.

[Chyristal]

I feel too ill to write very much. I know we all are, but I feel in a desperate situation. I have suffered chronically for 16 years with a now 30 year old daughter, she has driven everyone away with her vile behavior, there is only myself, son and aunt who have stood by her through everything [including her stabbing a former partner when she was 21]... .when she realized we were all at breaking point and giving up, I 1000% believe she conceived a child to suck us all back in [within hours of finding out she was pregnant, she said to me "you wont be able to p*** me off now or I wont let you see the baby"... .baby's father threw her out at 5 months pregnant... .whilst I accept she was really abusive to him, he should NEVER have got her pregnant. let alone do nothing to protect his child who is now at her mercy... .I am involved in a legal battle with her now, I am so bonded with the little boy who is 3 [only God has got us this far] she continually uses him as a weapon to punish me... .I am living through yet another nervous breakdown as I am ill with grief that I cannot protect him against her cruelty... .I would really appreciate prayers, as at this moment in time I think it is only divine intervention that can help me as the authorities in the UK are totally ignorant to this illness, she has lied and manipulated the authorities in the most obscene way, I am trying to have faith in 'CAFCASS' but the experience I have had so far with social services is scary. It does offer me some comfort to read other peoples stories as it helps me to accept that it is NOT ME that is the problem... .sincere apologies that this is such a negative first post.

Hi,

I feel every part of your pain, my BPD daughter has always been very difficult (polite way of putting it) and when she turned 11 exploded with vile abusive behaviour, she has 2 children who I worry so terribly about constantly, she seems to have a relationship that worries me with my granddaughter in as much as she seems to be turning her into a replica of herself! My poor grandson she says very often she hates him and doesn't treat him well at all, in fact I'd say she's jealous of him! I too am praying for social services to help but they say she's a "good mother" and "is working well with them" I've tried telling them she's playing them like a fiddle but they believe every word she says about me, or should I say makes up about me! That I just want her kids! I have a young child and am very poorly so it's the last thing I ever wanted! It's such a sad situation for the kids because although my grandson tells me how he feels he also protects her because he's terrified of the consequences from her because she's so very good at the manipulating lies she convinces these people of! It worries me that I probably don't know the half of what goes on too, but the dangerous situations I do know of are hair curling.

[wendydarling]

Hi

I’m also finding the communicating boundaries conversation really interesting and helpful for me.

I’ve often read the boundaries tool, my 28DD lives at home and I’ve struggled offering members guidance as I attempt to work out what the lesson can teach me.

My DD is not a boundary buster, she understands my needs, respects my values while suffering from BPD.

Even when we model our values and communicate responsibly, we can still encounter boundary busters and I’ve been dealing with a member of the public via work over the last week who is a buster, oof took my breath away folks! I’ll share this example how I managed this on a later post.

I found this really helpful

Boundary busters “When this happens, we should first challenge ourselves. 
 
- Have we made choices that are inconsistent with our core values?  If so, which was wrong, the value or the choices?  Do we need to change one?

- Have we been consistent in our actions and effective in our communications?  Or have we been sending mixed messages?  Do we need to dedicate the time and effort to communicate better?

- Have we looked at all the options we have available to us to help us navigate back to a "healthy place" where we can stay true to our values?  It's important to think broadly. Issuing ultimatums or taking timeouts work initially, but not in the long run. They are not the only tools we have. We can change ourselves and how we interact.  We can change the relationship role in our life. We can alter the environment. We can exit.”

My DD’s BPD has caused her father deep anxiety (we separated while I was pregnant) from time to time he calls me deeply distressed. Last call he says he is not sleeping. I’ve suggested he educate himself, sent him a huge lists of reading and that he invest in counselling to help him work through the changes he needs to make, to take on his responsibility for himself. Two years later he’s still in the same place and can’t see the progress DD is making = INVALIDATION as he piles his anxiety on my DD.

LnL my DD’s in the same position as your SO. He expects my DD to be immediately available to speak whenever he needs her and if she does not respond he assumes something is wrong and both she and I receive panic texts and calls from him. I have often suggested to my DD she arrange a weekly call with him but todate she has not chosen to do so and I think that maybe because it’s a guaranteed appointment with his anxiety. It’s all becoming clearer to me so the next time she comes to me I feel better prepared to advise her, 6ft thick boundary required. I also need to consider what's happening do we have good or bad triangulation happening here!

Interesting to now be able to look at communicating boundaries from the BPD's perspective, does this resonate with anyone else?

Jellibeans -  good point 'detaching with love' could do with more prominence.

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Hello Everyone!   

It's been quite a while since I've been on this site.  Welcome to all those who are new and thanks to all the members who reach out for support.  This site has always been my saving grace.

When I read the posts by our new members, I reflect on those really awful days and nights that my un-diagnosed BPD 29 yr old daughter has manipulated and crushed me.  Currently, we are in an "okay" place.  Setting personal boundaries has worked the best for me.  I say "ME" because I refuse to be psychologically abused any longer.  My best advice to all our newcomers is please focus on you.  We have all done our best to raise healthy adults and please don't allow these unhealthy BPD adult children ruin your lives.

I had an interesting conversation with her last week.  Interesting because (unfortunately) she convinces herself that her own lies are true.  That behavior used to infuriate me.  Now, I just respond with a short, direct response which includes a correction.  When she disagrees, I simply say, "I realize that's your understanding" and I just don't pursue any more discussion about the lie.

The BPD's children (our grandchildren) are such a useful pawn for our adult children.  Believe me... .they know and use their own children to manipulate us or create guilt situations.  I've somehow been able to see my grandson every weekend.  There have been many times my BPDd has withheld visits; however, her social life prevails and I eventually get to see my grandson.

My heart goes out to all of you struggling with an adult BPD child.  Their destruction is far reaching.  Please love yourself, do nice things for yourself and avoid overextending your support... .that can be personally devastating.  You are all in my thoughts and prayers.  Living with this disorder is only understood by those who have dealt with family members who suffer from BPD.  It's a cruel and misunderstood disease.

Warm hugs to you all   

[UKMum]

Hi,

I feel every part of your pain, my BPD daughter has always been very difficult (polite way of putting it) and when she turned 11 exploded with vile abusive behaviour, she has 2 children who I worry so terribly about constantly, she seems to have a relationship that worries me with my granddaughter in as much as she seems to be turning her into a replica of herself! My poor grandson she says very often she hates him and doesn't treat him well at all, in fact I'd say she's jealous of him! I too am praying for social services to help but they say she's a "good mother" and "is working well with them" I've tried telling them she's playing them like a fiddle but they believe every word she says about me, or should I say makes up about me! That I just want her kids! I have a young child and am very poorly so it's the last thing I ever wanted! It's such a sad situation for the kids because although my grandson tells me how he feels he also protects her because he's terrified of the consequences from her because she's so very good at the manipulating lies she convinces these people of! It worries me that I probably don't know the half of what goes on too, but the dangerous situations I do know of are hair curling.

Hello Chyristal

I resonate with so much of what you wrote, especially re social services; my daughter made the mistake of leaving a report in the baby bag [about 18 months ago] it was their reasoning for downgrading him from 'Child Protection' to 'Child in Need', I feel physically sick even now thinking about the lies she's told them about me, I put in a serious complaint which escalated to LGO and HCPC, I strongly challenged why they were writing as 'fact' that which a diagnosed mentally ill girl had told them [including that she was bought up in care [NOT!], wasn't shown nurturing [THAT really cut deep!], I am controlling and am just after bringing up her child [I would prefer a sedate retirement!] to cut it really short, I feel in a position now where social services are protecting their own position [to take action now would mean I was right all the way along and that leaves them 'exposed'] I had to appeal in court to have CAFCASS do the court report as opposed to daughter's social services because I proved their bias towards me... .luckily the judge agreed... .it's been an absolute hell, all the while trying to protect the little one from her violent rages... .I just cant write anymore... .

but to say, my prayers are with EVERYONE suffering this bizarre illness, if you are in the UK Chyristal and want to PM me, feel free, I am finding that it is only speaking to others that are going through similar that is any comfort to me - I just feel so isolated and helpless.

 

[Mamadukes]

Dear Dear Chyristal and UKMum,
Nightmare difficulties. My heart is with you. You have to be incredibly strong. I hope you find ways to take care of yourselves.

Wendydarling, thanks for your supportive comments. Interesting idea about requiring that my BPDs26 do his drugs only outside of our home, but not viable I'm afraid (for better or worse). He does not have friends at this time with whom he could use (gee, that's a double-edged sword), nor any safe place outside our home.

Have any of you experienced your child half wishing that they actually WERE in the gutter? He sometimes has the fantasy idea that maybe then he would HAVE to pick himself up (as if). Asking for tough love?

Keep the ideas coming for boundaries. I am very much interested in everybody's boundary/limit experiences with all kinds of behaviors, not just substance use.

MamaD

[Skip]

Spin off thread (to give more focus):
How am I coping with the using?
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308435.0

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi

Thanks so much for responding to my problem.

My BPDs has been a longterm drug user, particularly opiates. He's settled on weed with one diazepam pill to help him sleep. To be perfectly honest, I believe the diazepam is more likely to be a psychological addiction as he bought them off the internet and the content of them is unknown. He reduced about 10 weeks ago and says he still feels the "serious" withdrawal. I've always hated the drugs. They've not been recreational but self-harming. I have no problem with somebody having a joint at the weekend and see it as little different to me having a large glass of crisp white wine (can you hear me LOL!).  But this isn't what he has done in the past. It's easy to slip back, very easy for somebody with addictive tendencies which he very clearly has.

I have a younger son at home, now 16. It was always very easy to set a boundary of "no drugs" in the house. I had a good reason. My BPDs has abided by this, say maybe the odd party when we've been away on holiday. He's respectful of our space in this way. It has helped that he'd be moritified to strike one up in front of us but it easier in himself to come in high. He spent years, literally, waiting outside for hours until he knew we were in bed before he came in. It was an incredibly stressful life for him, I can see that now, and he blames us a lot for our strictness and not being "cool" parents.

So yes, this boundary is firm. I've got stronger with my limits and can actually laugh as he resists in his reluctance. Say, paying rent! It took him 6-7 weeks where we'd do a merry old dance but I stuck firm. He has to make a contribution to his living costs (it's a small contribution that he can very easily afford).

The biggy for me is him taking personal responsibility for himself. He's been like Peter Pan. Contradictory in not wanting to grow up but envious of his peers who get on with their lives. I finally realised I had to be the parent he needs; to be assertive but loving. I'm clearly enabling and I live with this every day. I handle it because he makes progress, if he wasn't could I throw him out?  Yes, actually - 26 is an adult and I'm going to die one day.  He has to find a way to live independently, happy or not, drug free or not, in therapy or not. It's my job to get him out as good as I can get.

I know I say this a lot. For him to be behave like an adult he has to be treated like one. It's been hard as he just hasn't had the skillset he needs to be one. Neither have I, I recognise that I've been a big part of the problem struggling with my innate need to fix.

So I guess my biggest problem is distancing him from me. It'll help when he's moved out and also when he's got support with treatment.

Detaching isn't a problem. It's like I don't feel anything any more. I love him, I even like him now but if he said tomorrow "I'm moving to Australia" I'd say "OK, when do you leave?".  I've got my own life, I looked externally to fill the chaos/drama/traumatic space that he filled. I'm done with all that and I say "no more".

I use DEARMAN. I love this actually. I found a very good scenario that helped me better understand how to use it on the internet. I got my BPD to agree to paying rent through this.

SET works for me when texting.  Getting the informal language right is difficult, to get it sound like I really mean it and not working from a script. I use SET when he vents and it gives me something to say other than just letting him rip. I think I may need to try using DEAR instead.

So addiction problems.  Biggy. 

  MARMADUKES
How do you cope and manage with the drug use?

Have you ever managed to set a boundary and keep it?  As LBJ said to me once "6 feet thick concrete boundaries"! 

  TRISTESSE, UKMUM, JELLIBEANS, ALIMOMMA
What sort of technique, if any, do you use when setting the boundary?

Isn't it just great to have this opportunity to discuss like this? 

Thanks everybody.

Hugs to each and every one of you.

LP

[Lollypop]

Hi

It's become clear I need to use SET more and I need to polish up my skills.

I'm feeling anxious because I feel an ensuing crisis so I'm not always "on it". The physical distance beteeen me and BPDs does help. He called into the house yesterday to pay us the money he owes.

Despite feeling so very bad on Sunday, cutting and sharing that he wanted to end his life he has NOT called up about his much needed treatment plan (he resists because it will deal drug addiction and he doesn't want this).

I didn't handle this situation well. I see that SET would have helped us.

I'm worried about you and the delay in getting treatment.
I know this is a very scary prospect for you but you know you need the help.
You're taking a blue pill every night that you bought off the Internet and you don't know what's in it. They want to help you.

Any thoughts?

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollypop

Despite feeling so very bad on Sunday, cutting and sharing that he wanted to end his life he has NOT called up about his much needed treatment plan (he resists because it will deal drug addiction and he doesn't want this).

I didn't handle this situation well. I see that SET would have helped us.

SUPPORT: I'm worried about you and the delay in getting treatment.
EMPATHY: I know this is a very scary prospect for you but you know you need the help.
TRUTH: You're taking a blue pill every night that you bought off the Internet and you don't know what's in it. They want to help you.

Looks good to me LP, bringing an ensuing crisis back to centre placing the responsibility back to where it belongs from my personal experience takes time to work through, be gentle with yourself, your doing great.

Bumping up this SET workshop for everyone, with great examples

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

I need to brush up for when my DD completes her 12 months DBT in June - she's been asked to produce a five year plan setting out her goals and finding it overwhelming, small steps ... .

WDx

[livednlearned]

I'm worried about you and the delay in getting treatment.

With S15 (who is not BPD, tho highly sensitive plus anxiety/depression), if I say that I am worried about him, it makes him more anxious and seems to confirm in his mind that he is a burden to me.

What about,

S: "I care about you and know you are doing the best you can right now."

E: "Seeking out help can feel scary. It takes a lot of courage, and it can feel like we might be exposed and judged, and sometimes, we even worry that maybe they can't help us after all."

T: "You're taking a blue pill every night and you don't know what's in it. There are people who understand why you might want to do this, and they know how to help you make good choices for yourself. They have walked this path with other people like you who struggle with the same temptations. How about we do this -- I will sit with you when you call. If at any time you feel it's too much, you can pass the phone to me and I will tell them you need to take a break and will try again later. If you make it through the call, remember that you can still choose when to go, and find a time when you are ready. What are your thoughts about doing it this way?"

[Mamadukes]

Oh boy, thank you dear people for being here today.

Finally, hospitalization happened this week. "Non-emergency" (no ambulance, that was the goal) voluntary admission which we built up to over weeks of s26 slowly coming to terms with the need to bust a move (he's not in treatment, extremely stuck in house, symptoms awful). It became clear that all I could do during recent weeks was supportively w a i t. He got there. Big big step. It has been a very stressful tense time for me.

However, this hospital setting is not really right for him (agreement from staff on this) -- it's really more crisis-oriented, not enough/appropriate treatment each day. But I have no regrets: it was a huge step for him to take, and the productive outcome will be a new treatment plan which they really are helping to arrange.

I'm pretty drained and frustrated. I have to lean into the positive = we needed something, anything, to shift. But the future is extremely uncertain, and we cannot tumble backward from here. I am not convinced that we're finding optimal treatment... .and I am impatient for him to take more responsibility and embrace the best treatment we can line up (and understand that his treatment will always be evolving).

Lollypop, thank you so much for sharing your current situation. It means so much to me to hear other people's details and how you are approaching it, and hearing the great suggestions from WendyD and Livednlearned. And being reminded to keep reviewing the skills and strategies. You guys are all so amazing.

Meanwhile, I am registered for an intensive Family Connections workshop this weekend. But now I'm not sure I should leave my son alone this weekend fresh from the hospital. When I say this to you, I feel like of course I HAVE to go. I certainly want to. Thoughts? I will see what happens today and tomorrow (expecting him to come home Friday, and I need to leave Friday evening for the workshop, eek). Of course you will ask if there's someone else who can stay with him. That's complicated (who? and he will resist)... .but I will dig deep.

Now I'll watch that SET workshop -- thanks WendyD.

Mam'ukes

[livednlearned]

Mamadukes,

Big hug to you  

For someone to allow themselves to get the help they need is a big step, like you say.

My son resisted taking medication for a long time because, even tho he knew he was depressed, for some reason taking medication confirmed his brokenness in a way he wasn't quite ready for. Where I saw a small step (saying you are depressed to taking medication), he saw a giant chasm. It was a big deal when he finally agreed to take medication.

I can understand, too, why you feel nervous about Friday.  

Finally, hospitalization happened this week... .the productive outcome will be a new treatment plan which they really are helping to arrange.

Any chance they will allow him to stay until you get back on Sunday?

How do you think your son will be when you get home?  

[Lollypop]

HI

LNL and WD:  thanks for the great advice.  I read the better SET, particularly not saying how worried I was about him - yes, I can see that might make him more anxious.  I skimmed read the text in the car before setting off home and promised myself to re-read it and try and memorise it so I could try again later but I didn't get that chance!

BPDs was in when I got home and he seemed like he wanted to talk.  I decided to give a re-do a go.  I didn't get the exact right words I know but I certainly got the taste and gist of your suggestion LNL.  BPDs resisted and was contradictory "I'm so sad.  I don't need to chase up the treatment plan".  I gently challenged him using validation etc and I got through!  He says he's going to call them tomorrow.  THEN the next bit is quite amazing.  I said to him "you know we've got such a good relationship now son, we can speak to each other adult to adult now, this is just so great and we understand that I can't do things for you, that you need to do these things yourself and you're learning that, actually, that's very hard... .it's hard to take responsibility for yourself and to learn how to take care of yourself."    He replied "I've been thinking that I need some new friends.  I also think that I need to do some sort of class or something". 

We had a good talk about what's been going on with him and I told him that I could see why he felt that way.  He then said "and tomorrow night I've got to speak to GF's parents and apologise and explain why I behaved some a small child last weekend, they don't know about my background and this is going to be difficult for me."

WOW.  Four hits in one.  Agreement he needs help.  New friends.  A class.  An apology for his behaviour.

I realise that they may not all be realistic but, hey, he's thinking and that'll do for me today.   

Thanks LNL: your wording was just so brilliant, particularly the Trust part.

Who would have thought I could pull off a re-do of a SET!  Huzzah 

LP


Marmadukes:  Well done to you!  I hope you go to the weekend.  When we know better, we do better.  My new motto!

[Mamadukes]

Thanks Livednlearned 

S26 is miserable at the hospital (though guess what? he didn't sound SO miserable just now on the phone, into day 2). Nothing terribly productive is going on for him there though (and it would be even less productive on the wkend) though of course there's big value in him being safe and away from home/environment/habits. Your idea about him staying through Sunday is very interesting. I will explore.

I guess my big concern about him being alone at home for the weekend, aside from possible bad spiral, is that he might instantly slip back to where we were before the hospital. I can totally imagine that scenario, ugh. At least if I'm here I can be (hyper vigilant, LOL)... .um, I can try to support him in hanging on to anything positive that came out of the hospitalization, and doing something/anything differently, and try to reinforce moving forward from here.

After I wrote the above, Lollypop came in. WOW, amazing stuff LP!  With fantastic results. Thanks a million for this update, extremely relevant for me this weekend. 

I gently challenged him using validation etc and I got through!  He says he's going to call them tomorrow.  THEN the next bit is quite amazing.  I said to him "you know we've got such a good relationship now son, we can speak to each other adult to adult now, this is just so great and we understand that I can't do things for you, that you need to do these things yourself and you're learning that, actually, that's very hard... .it's hard to take responsibility for yourself and to learn how to take care of yourself."

and his responses, as you said:  Four hits in one.  Agreement he needs help.  New friends.  A class.  An apology for his behaviour.

WOW!

Thanks everybody,
MamaD

[livednlearned]

Lollypop, I felt emotional reading about all your breakthroughs! Amazing that BPDs26 was able to be so vulnerable and see a better future for himself. That takes a lot of courage.

I remember reading somewhere that small wins can be scary for a pwBPD because they think if they do well, then people will no longer be there for them.

I try to remember this with both my highly sensitive son and uBPD D20.

"If it works out, great. I will be here to listen. If not, I will be here to listen too.

Turns out I will be here to listen no matter what."