Kaboom Huge blow-up again.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So HwBPD started engaging me in the ride into work (he was driving me to work in order to Uber, which he has not done in a long time) about a semi-political post I published on my Facebook feed that morning. At first, we were just discussing things, but then he got heated and his voice started rising. I tried to shut it down, but that didn't work. And, after that, okay, maybe I got a little snarky, saying, "Fine, you know what? You're right. You're the rightest right that ever was!" He became infuriated at that, and stomped on the car accelerator, which caused me to scream in terror (he sometimes uses the car as a weapon to scare me).

He screamed profanities at me and made fun of my screaming, and then he blamed being in the car with me for the fight. He said he was never getting in the car with me again. I was crying and scared and hyperventilating, but I tried not to argue back.

Our worst fights do happen in the car, and he just starts raging and screaming and cursing at me. It terrifies me. I ended up at work, sweaty and shaken. I had to pull myself together just to go in and act like nothing was wrong.

It's times like this that make me want to just end it, to end the suffering. He does this kind of thing because he feels bad about himself, and he's angry at himself. I feel like he's mad at me for having my life together, and having a good job, and being able to take care of myself. He won't get a job, he won't shower half the time, or get himself organized. He has pretty much dug in both heels when it comes to looking for work. He says, "No one wants me" as his excuse to avoid looking for work. Is it time for an ultimatum? How would others deal with that? I'm really at the end of my rope.

[WitzEndWife]

So HwBPD started engaging me in the ride into work (he was driving me to work in order to Uber, which he has not done in a long time) about a semi-political post I published on my Facebook feed that morning. At first, we were just discussing things, but then he got heated and his voice started rising. I tried to shut it down, but that didn't work. And, after that, okay, maybe I got a little snarky, saying, "Fine, you know what? You're right. You're the rightest right that ever was!" He became infuriated at that, and stomped on the car accelerator, which caused me to scream in terror (he sometimes uses the car as a weapon to scare me).

He screamed profanities at me and made fun of my screaming, and then he blamed being in the car with me for the fight. He said he was never getting in the car with me again. I was crying and scared and hyperventilating, but I tried not to argue back.

Our worst fights do happen in the car, and he just starts raging and screaming and cursing at me. It terrifies me. I ended up at work, sweaty and shaken. I had to pull myself together just to go in and act like nothing was wrong.

It's times like this that make me want to just end it, to end the suffering. He does this kind of thing because he feels bad about himself, and he's angry at himself. I feel like he's mad at me for having my life together, and having a good job, and being able to take care of myself. He won't get a job, he won't shower half the time, or get himself organized. He has pretty much dug in both heels when it comes to looking for work. He says, "No one wants me" as his excuse to avoid looking for work. Is it time for an ultimatum? How would others deal with that? I'm really at the end of my rope.

[isilme]

Wow - we've had fights while in the car, but I usually drive so this doesn't happen.  He will get mad, his blood sugar will drop, and he will try to make me take my eyes off of road to "fix" the GPS or something, and I'm like, "No, I'm busy keeping us alive." 

And morning-on-the-way-to-work fights suck so bad - I hate getting here angry, sad, weepy, and trying to not show it.  I'm sorry this was your day today.

Yes, your H resents that you are able to adult and he's not. 

"No one wants me" - I've responded to this with things like, "they have to know you exist to know if they want you, and if you've never been applied, this is not a statement based on fact, but on your emotions which are depressed and self-depreciating right now."  I know that's not very good validation, but H prides himself on being logical, and talking like a Vulcan sometimes takes away his arguments (and talking like a Vulcan means I am not expressing much emotion myself, so it does not trigger him as quickly). 

It's been quite a few months.  He's doing Uber again - that's kinda good.  It's something to let him earn a little money (pride) and get him interacting with people.  But his tendency to use the car as a way to express out of control emotions is bad.  At least with BPD he will not likely do to a stranger what he did to you this morning, as it's those of us closest to them who get that joy.

It's okay to get snarky.  You are a human being, and it's not fair that this condition makes you exert more emotional control all the time.  You will have days when you need to snap back and just can't help it.  You've been carrying your marriage on your shoulders.  He has shown very little forward motion to eventually help. 

Is your uncle visiting now?  How is your H doing with your parents, now?  Any improvement? 

I can't remember if you have more than one vehicle.  I'd refuse to let him drive me to work if he has his own vehicle for Uber-ing.  Say it's because you don't want to have to wait for him to finish a fare or hold him up getting to a customer.  Say it's because you need to run some errands.  Or just say that you like some time to just listen to music on the way in before starting your day, whatever.  I kinda feel saying it's because he gets reckless as a tool to scare you would be "letting him win".  using another reason would remove you from the car, but not "let him win".  If you only have one car, I don't know how to enforce the "don't drive crazy with me in here" boundary

I think a direct ultimatum would just make him dig in his heels more, and reinforce all his negative thoughts about no body wants him, no body likes/loves him, he's going to eat worms.  Maybe you need to tell him each day that you NEED him to find a job and work if he wants out of your parents' house.  You can do it alone, but it will take a long time, and as a married couple, you are supposed to be a team and you need his help to get it done sooner.  I dunno.  I'm just sorry you had sucha  abad morning. 

[peacemountain]

Hi WitsEnd,

What a distressing way to begin the day! First, don't be too hard on yourself for the snark. We don't always respond in particularly helpful ways every single time but we do learn from our experiences.

On the other hand, it's apparent that the car thing has happened several times. It's dangerous and abusive. Period. It doesn't matter if you're having an argument. There is no circumstance that makes that ok.

I would say it's time to set up some boundaries in this area if you haven't already. I know it will probably cost more, be inconvenient, etc., but I would suggest that you either be the one to drive from here on out, or drive separately EVERY SINGLE TIME. Your H has shown multiple times that he cannot be trusted to drive responsibly regardless of the circumstance. You have to take action to protect yourself and show him that this will not be tolerated. Only after he shows better control during heated discussions would I consider going back to riding in a vehicle he is operating. If it happens again that you must again enforce the boundary.

Hang in there!
-M

[Stolen]

The car setting was always a trigger for xW.  So many bouts of dysregulation - "let me out!" in full rage.  And - if it was a safe place - I would.  And the triggers? Trivial, if even identifiable. There was just something about being in that small space that would spark her. 

Interesting to hear others with this experience.

[WitzEndWife]

Yes, your H resents that you are able to adult and he's not. 

"No one wants me" - I've responded to this with things like, "they have to know you exist to know if they want you, and if you've never been applied, this is not a statement based on fact, but on your emotions which are depressed and self-depreciating right now."  I know that's not very good validation, but H prides himself on being logical, and talking like a Vulcan sometimes takes away his arguments (and talking like a Vulcan means I am not expressing much emotion myself, so it does not trigger him as quickly). 

I think I've said similar things to him when he's been like that, but I don't get the feeling that I've been helpful. On the one hand, he sees following up with employers as "groveling" for a job. On the other hand, his lack of follow up is an excuse to say they don't want him. It's a pretty difficult situation to think through logically. Sigh.

It's been quite a few months.  He's doing Uber again - that's kinda good.  It's something to let him earn a little money (pride) and get him interacting with people.  But his tendency to use the car as a way to express out of control emotions is bad.  At least with BPD he will not likely do to a stranger what he did to you this morning, as it's those of us closest to them who get that joy.

No, he's pretty normal with people who aren't close to him. I should take the advice of you and peacemountain and not drive with him, but this isn't always possible, and is super inconvenient. He has to use my car for Uber, because his is too old, so it makes sense for him to drive me to work. I can't drive his car because it is a stick shift.
 

Is your uncle visiting now?  How is your H doing with your parents, now?  Any improvement? 

My uncle just left and H was surprisingly better with everyone while they were there. He only had one incident, and it wasn't that bad. Overall, he has been a lot more talkative and active recently, and the abuse of my parents has been minimal. Still, I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm sure something will come up soon that will cause him to dysregulate with them.

I think a direct ultimatum would just make him dig in his heels more, and reinforce all his negative thoughts about no body wants him, no body likes/loves him, he's going to eat worms.  Maybe you need to tell him each day that you NEED him to find a job and work if he wants out of your parents' house.  You can do it alone, but it will take a long time, and as a married couple, you are supposed to be a team and you need his help to get it done sooner.  I dunno.  I'm just sorry you had sucha  abad morning. 

I think framing it as a need that I have will be critical. My therapist wants me to write a letter, but I keep getting stuck on it. I'll keep trying. Sigh.

[WitzEndWife]

The car setting was always a trigger for xW.  So many bouts of dysregulation - "let me out!" in full rage.  And - if it was a safe place - I would.  And the triggers? Trivial, if even identifiable. There was just something about being in that small space that would spark her. 

Interesting to hear others with this experience.

Today he threatened to get out of the car in the middle of the highway. Most of the time, I'm the one screaming to "let me out" because of his crazy driving. He actually did once, in our neighborhood, and then called me frantically about 15 minutes later, once he'd calmed down.

I think the car is such a volatile environment because you cannot get away from the person. H also becomes angry at times when I'm in the car and I don't talk to him, or my attention is focused on my phone. I usually look at my phone to distract myself from his crazy driving (he normally drives a bit too aggressively for my taste).

It's particularly scary when the person with the rage issues is driving, because anything can set them off, and the passenger has no choice but to "ride the ride" and do their best to calm the rage.

[peacemountain]

He has to use my car for Uber, because his is too old, so it makes sense for him to drive me to work. I can't drive his car because it is a stick shift.

Would it be possible for you to drive and switch out at work? Or how about learning a stick shift so you could drive his car? It might be fun to learn something new anyway

It's probably low down on your list of "things that need to change". I know I get overwhelmed when I look at everything that needs adjusting, but sometimes just picking off some of the less significant issues and addressing them leaves me more energy to tackle the big ones.

[WitzEndWife]

Or how about learning a stick shift so you could drive his car? It might be fun to learn something new anyway

It's probably low down on your list of "things that need to change". I know I get overwhelmed when I look at everything that needs adjusting, but sometimes just picking off some of the less significant issues and addressing them leaves me more energy to tackle the big ones.

I should probably learn to drive a stick anyway. And the car is TECHNICALLY mine, because I paid for it, so it is kind of a bummer to own a car that you can't even drive! Although I would need to find lessons, I think, rather than having my husband teach me (no thanks   )!

[peacemountain]

Agreed Do you have a girlfriend that could show you how?

[isilme]

I tried stick once - the biggest issue is learning to get it into first gear.  After that, once you're going, it shifts pretty easily.  I was too scared to try reverse, but if you can get to a relatively empty parking lot, (can your mom drive stick?) and just try it over and over, you'll get it.